I haven't played HU in a couple patches so I was reading through the forum posts over the last year or so and I saw all the drama that went down. I'm just wondering what the final word is.

I honestly have no desire to put time into playing HU again if I can't even decide for myself if I want help in certain areas or not from a higher level character. I understand the idea behind it, but shouldn't it be up to each player if they want to accept help or not? I have played this mod for years and my favorite part has always been playing through a new ladder and then being able to help myself while trying another build. It just seems to me that anyone coming in too long after the initial reset (like I would be doing right now) is going to pull their hair out trying to get a party to get to hell with.

I hope this isn't still active. I was really looking forward to playing HU on the realms again, but this feels like one giant cock-block.

Sad to say but it's still here. Many have found ways around it though. Wish they'd remove it, but I guess those in power at the time felt the majority of us weren't smart enough to decide for ourselves. It's shit like this that helps make the community smaller. My 2 cents there.

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein

Wow that really sucks. I just got everything installed and I was checking it out in high res. I was excited to play again until I read your reply. Oh well, guess I'll uninstall now.

A little freedom to make our own choices on how we play is all I ask for. I'll keep an eye on the forums. Maybe I'll come back when Hitler is assassinated.

Take care guys!

not that hard to bug a game if you really need to rush yourself

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Yes because rushing through the game really helps the community. If you want to rush to end game and play dress up why don't you just play single player and edit your char, save yourself a lot of time?

Then you don't know how I do play. I'm not pro-rushing, but I am pro-choice. I walk every wp with a similar lvl'd group for the most part. I have on more than one occasion attempted bosses with a bad group combo, some succeeded others didn't. I simply think it should be up to the individual to CHOOSE how to play, and not forced into the anti-rush. I'm not one of those who likes dragging under lvl'd under geared toons along.

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein

anti-rush feature is useless anyways as it can easily be bugged to avoid it...
all it does is making it harder for new players to find a party to play with.
I'd say remove it, it's just useless.

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Well congratz on being able to get groups together. The problem is with everyone rushing through it leaves no one to make groups with. That is the dilemma.

Again with "choice" it's the developers choice on how he wants the game to be played. You don't see them allowing rushing in mmo's because people want to be able to get to end game. At no point in this games development from when it was introduced till now has it been intended for people to rush it, it's an exploit.

I've been stuck in A4 for about a week now, while players who get to act 4 who could make a group rush through.

But, there is another problem at hand, bugged games. People make them to bypass this measure. In fact, iirc, the first groups doing so were on hardcore, the very group touting it had the "pure anti-rush measures". This fact alone shows that the idea, while good in theory, has failed miserably. How long did it take for HU to get around to implementing this? Last patch, so for the previous 6-7 years it didn't exist. Mind you, I'm not against this measure IF it couldn't be bypassed by a 3rd grader. If I made a new char as I added friends, I'd have 2-3 accounts going atm. Also, as I saw last patch, people made dedicated rushers. Chars that were purposely left in a difficulty that took Baal down to a sliver and left. No matter the measures applied people will work to defeat them, that's just the way it is. Look at the act2 opener as one example of that, a trick I learned from a former hc player. At the start of last patch most voted no on smashing the orb being needed to finish act3 a definite speed bump to rushing wouldn't that be?

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein

Im stuck in a1nm since ladder start ;/.

Because everyone knows every exploit is always started by HC players...

Wtf is that?
BTW, the leap bug was used on SC for years and not on HC, but I guess that's our fault that it was being used too...

How about we stop using the SC/HC shit and use the word COMMUNITY instead. Thats a blanked statement on the same scale as:


Lets be honest, theres only a handfull of people who can actually play through untwinked and unrushed all the way to the end of hell, and those players get the satisfaction of knowing they can beat the game propperly. The ones who never manage it at least once will always know in the back of their mind that they couldn't beat it under their own steam.

There was only 2 groups on SC that were in hell last ladder for weeks until the rushing started, the other 90% were stuck in NM. It was even more prominent on HC with 2 groups in hell and no others even outside normal.
Those groups that were stuck will never learn how to beat that stuff if they just skip all that and wait until they have perfect gear, by farming trash like a sheep, and never even looking at a boss in anger till after level 95.
They could be learning to form better partys, and play to each others strength's, or making bigger partys and picking up extra players at the same stage instead of playing "dress up my level 95".

Theres some idiot in the channel every now and then that's been level 56 for like 3 months. Not because theres nobody to play with but because he don't know "the right crowd" to get a rush from. All he does is sit in the channel and beg for a rush. Never makes a party game or asks the folks at his level to help. Always the hell chars...

I can't comment on SC but I know it gets pretty lonely in hell after a few weeks with only 1 other team of 2-3 players making progress around the same pace as you that you can trade with etc. That's the only thing I don't like about the theory of an Anti Rush system. (Don't care about SC antirush tbh)
I agree that the current system is flawed though.


Edit: TL;DR

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the idea was great, and the work put into it appreciated. in the end i suppose it all comes down to choice. you can play through with some friends or join the rush train. it really has not worked to try to force 1 play style on everyone.

I think there's not enough anti rush in the game.

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Its always in the last place you look....

You just love to run all the a3 bosses

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If people can't complete normal difficulty without the aid of a level 90 poison zon, then good riddance.

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The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos

nothing wrong about that, actually rushing thru a3 is way to easy by bugging with the wp I'd rather say remove the wp and place it in a dungeon or so, so that people are forced to do it properly and not just have someone giving them the wp...
I know people will then create openers for a3 too, but it makes it a bit harder at least and would be way more usefull than the not working anti rush.

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I don't understand why the "community" thinks they need to "force" people to play a certain way. Everyone has their own playstyle. If you like to play "dress up" that's up to you. If you like to kill EVERY single monster on the map, that should also be up to you. If you don't want to rush through then DON'T!

My personal playstyle is such that I like to play through the entire game to learn the build I have made and see what it is actually capable of. Now, if for some reason I get stuck somewhere, does that mean this character shouldn't be allowed to ever progress past this point? It should be MY decision if I want to accept help or not.

I didn't start this thread because I want to get my characters rushed through to hell and then sit there not knowing what to do next. I have played this mod for many years and I have loved it for just as long. I know how to play HU. I just don't understand why this "anti-rush" was put in this far into the mod and I am not going to start playing again if this is the direction it is going.

I'm an adult and since I can no longer choose HOW to play a game I love and have played for many years, then the only choice I have left is not to play at all. I know there are ways to bug this but we shouldn't have to do that. Playstyle is different for everyone and apparently HU no longer fits my playstyle. This sucks but oh well, my loss.

I am being vocal and letting you know why I won't be playing HU anymore, but I just wonder how many other players have quit HU for the same reason and never told anyone why. People want to be able to progress in a game and to have to wait at normal diablo for weeks because there is nobody to group with or help you...most people will say screw it and never really get to enjoy HU to it's full potential. If there were 50k players on this realm at all times and you could easily find a group to play with then the "anti-rush" would be a great idea, but as it is now, I think it will just cause new players to lose interest once they realize they can never find a group to progress with.

Bottom line is, if you are against rushing then don't do it and don't help anyone do it, bugs or not. FREE WILL, make your own choices!

I absolutely CANNOT stand this argument. You aren't forcing people to play a certain way, you're stopping them from exploiting the game in a way it wasn't intended. You don't see blizzard implement a way to rush through there game because people like to skip to end game do you? No of course not.

You can also exploit the game for map hack, god mode and follower. Under your argument in exploiting the game you believe this is ok?

If it was an "exploit" it would have been fixed long ago. Hackers are banned on bnet, exploits are patched.

From what I've heard on here you can get around the anti-rush by "bugging" it anyways. I don't see you complaining about that "exploit."

You don't think single spawning bosses is an "exploit?"

You don't think running bosses close to a wp is an "exploit?"

Nothing is ever going to be perfect. If you don't want to rush or be rushed then DON'T DO IT. I'm not asking for everyone to be forced into rushing, but if some players like to do that after they have already grinded through every act and difficulty many times then that should be their choice.

/signed

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein

I'm obviously against bugging the game.

Yes single spawning is an exploit.

And no farming a boss near a WP is not an exploit.

As single spawning is exploiting the game, so is rushing a low character through the game with no risk or difficulty(god mode basically) is an exploit.

If you don't like the anti-rush, then just use god mode to get yourself through the tough parts.



This is just laughable, this is the game. They didn't just make this to be a hindrance to you. Play it enjoy it, or this isn't the game for you.

You don't seem to understand that I HAVE played this game for about 7 years now. I played before the Aftermath split and I stayed loyal to Soulmancers HU. I love this mod. BUT, to add something like this sooooooooo far into the mod...It just feels like a gigantic middle finger. As I said earlier, I won't be playing for this reason alone. It sucks but it's my CHOICE.

Find some middle ground and maybe the community will grow again. As I see it now, there is no way any new players would keep playing HU unless they start playing with a reset. If you don't get in with the inital surge of players you're probably screwed.

That is true.

Mancer started putting in antirush stuff at least 4 years ago. I don't really see how this 'newness' argument works. Sure, you can't bring a high level into norm anymore (without bugging the game). I just don't really see this as much of an issue.

You don't have to do any quests to get to Andy
You can get a tp in late act2 if you are late to the party
You only need to one of the trav monsters with the flail to get into durance if you have another character with durance wp
You don't have to do ancients to get baal quest.

How the hell are people seemingly so impeded?

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The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos

Sad part is about 60% of those are exploits. TBH, I know a few people who make a dedicated opener for act 2. Act3 is another one, enable the smashy and insta speed bump. Since you can't pass act3 without entering Meph's portal. The last one is the worst though, no easy way to fix it. Sad part is the vast majority wanted those quest flags for acts 2 & 3 left as they are now. Reasoning they are the longest and most tedious parts of the game.

It's one thing to implement quest flags, and still another to tell us which chars we're allowed to run in a particular difficulty. Since we can by-pass it so easily, why balk at simply removing this measure until a suitable fix can be found?

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein

Terry never made such a anti-rush thing wtf are you talking about ... This shit started last season because a small amount of people got there pantys in a bunch over it.. Thing is it all comes down to what the person wants to do if they want to play through it or just get a boost Big Fuckin Deal who cares... You mean to tell me that if you play through the game legit you really care what the others are doing .. Wow get a grip .. The idea is to make the community grow not to make new and old timers that are coming back quit before they even get started...
And Mustang man If you need someone to run with I would be more then happy to get some play time in ..

As far as anti-rush get rid of it all ready .. allmost all are exploiting that anyways ....

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P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

huh? There's a game outside of a5 hell? who knew..

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Using 'i can't play like i want to' to the point of completely ignoring the designer's intent reeks of self importance.

Rushers will rush as much as the mechanics allow. The more opened the system is, the more it will happen. There are already plenty of ways to cut corners. I fail to see any good reason to having a hell character come and fight norm andariel. It happened a lot before. (and made any boss fight before hell andy a complete joke. At least now, you do have to bug a game. Those do not occur nearly as often as single spawn 9x characters killing every bloody boss in normal difficulty.

The antirush thing at the moment (sadly) only will keep the honest people honest. That is better than nothing at all.

Asteroth: I was really referring to stricter quest flags, and the upping of spawns to 4 spawn minimum due to too much single spawning back then. It's not what we have now, but it was a measure nonetheless.

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The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos

Hell Tundra Character Dress Up Unleashed

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If you sit at your computer naked while playing it balances the game out

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Practice safe trolling and be wary of spambots they have squaids.

if you're mad that guys are on hell while they shouldn't be, just hostile them and kill ?(HC guys) Dunno what's the problem, rushers won't be playing normal way anyway and you seem to care not for sc players. Guys who quit HU won't return, Guys who rush thro game won't play "as it was designed" nevertheless, I quit HU cuz mod is overwhelmed with guys who knows batshit about this game but they "play HC" - Lee, Jarl, many unspoken names on chat - I fuck care about if theres antirush as there's noone who will play by the rules when:
1)HC team can't get a multizon to hell "cuz all dex is too risky" (hail to all vita builds!)
2)HC team can't kill los nec more than once "cuz there are 2 guys playing at that point"
3)Melee is TOO OP because smith paladin always hitting, ignoring def, doing 0-20 phys dmg, 40% cb being OP for Iron Maiden to kick in, all vita... is too good so all 60k WW barbs with 5%cb, killing themselves to IM should suffer and all melee should be balanced so they serve a role of tanks.
4)Lee's fury druid using 10k AR, 4fpa wpn (sorrow) hit max fpa(3fpa) and say tomb reaver is shit for fury druids. He's the scion of balance for this patch (nerf str buff, nerf how buff, nerf hamburgers).
No antirush will help this game, it's dead by stupidy of guy(s) with power - Baerk shouldn't be modding Hu with his "in AM" attitude - and guys lying about their achievements.

/off too transport tycoon.

Hows about. New player joins, gets stuck in norm. No one to play with. Gets frustrated and quits.

How does this help the mod Steel?

No antirush will ruin the game.

how about ladder resets every couple weeks, this will fix that

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how about 3-4 times a year?

It's not antirush fault. Some builds are completely garbage and/or broken before certain point of the game hence guys rush to get there. There are builds that are broken vs bosses but good for trashing, that's why guys rush them to hell tundra. Enforcing antirushing not giving something in return is stupid, not everyone plays with maxed oak, psn zon, or other cheesy chars. Ofc we can stick to "there are many noobs" argument and nerf everything over and over.

Yeah because there's no point in rushing when you can't kill norm diablo with a melee cuz you're not aware of all hidden things like extra phys res or iron maiden as a counter. Better team up psn zon, or farm flawless diamonds for 3hours and make a cup of coffee for upcoming 1h battle against a single enemy. Make 2 cups when playing a zealer.

steel pretty much nailed everything down. this is part of the reason i supported the idea of 1.21z revert. as it stands nothing gets done and having to listen to 100 pages of non stop bickering turns off a lot of us.

i don't have it in me to make an attempt for another patch because so many folks have such a warped idea of what is supposed to be ballanced for a mod with a small community that we end up with casters unleashed and for some reason this is OK. add to that so many folks seem to think that anti-rush measure is imperative to encouraging team play makes me laugh. we might as well play terry's last version because this whole community "patch" business is ridiculous.

+1 Pious.

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P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

Let's also consider Terry's wishes for the patch 1.3a "a small balance patch" what did we get? Wholesale massive re-making of HU as a few wanted it, some who thought they knew more than the man who had created/balanced this mod for years. The aftermath was a shitstorm from hell, and hasn't subsided all that much, with so many ideas for balance. That being said, 1.3b has some good ideas, which I would hate to see gone. Such things as the buffs to HoW, changes to druid summons to name a few. I will admit, these last patches, while frustrating in someways, have been a nice change. As it stands, we don't really need any major changes. Some small tweaks to melee, i.e. amp/bosshat adjustments and a slight buff to a few murdered skills. If you really sit down and think about it, the differences between 1.21z and 1.3b are rather small in terms of boss res after amp is applied. IMO, most of the melee complaints are coming from not seeing a large chunk of life sliced of a boss because cb triggers less frequently now. Add in 3x spawn and AI changes with the recent patch, and any buffs from this patch are negligible.

At this point, I'd hate to revert. No matter the version, someones gonna be unhappy with the way a certain toon plays, the good ones adapt, the rest whine.

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein

Towards anti rush:
I personally have not argued its importance to team play. My point has really been on not wanting to see every norm game filled with a 9x like it used to be. Most of the calls from the other side have been 'but i wanna'.

Those that argue that it's important to the community to drop for team reasons must have a different experience than I have lately because norm and NM have actually been a little more active this season than the last ones. Not by much, but it it has been noticeable the times that I have chosen to play (I don't get to a lot).

The comments on this patch have been much more tame this season than last. It could be due to some of the vets just not putting it to the mat, but it doesn't seem nearly as vitriol this go round. Some of it was getting used to some of the hires/lowres quirks, and then building stuff with the new pierce values and new boss res values. As it turns out, we did not quite hit mark of caster vs melee balance. I think calls of total reversion are a bit overkill. No nothing is going to be changed really soon, but reverting to 1.21z is simply an ode to nostalgia in my opinion.

The best point I have seen raised this time is the role of melee. At this point we seem in the dead zone between tankiness and single target damage dealer. I think it is correct that we need to better define what we actually want the role to be vs simply finding the middle ground btwn 1.21z and 1.31a. This was a reasonable start, but it needs some work.

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The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos