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 Post subject: Anti-Rush change to come. DONE.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:31 am 
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Realm updated. Hell chars can now join NM games. Softcore only.

I have read your tons of posts for/against the current Anti-Rush feature that has been implemented for this patch.

I had a discussion with Soulmancer tonight and we came to this conclusion :
- Allow Hell chars to join NM games.
- Allow A1 NM chars to join A5 normal games

Soulmancer wrote:
It's great for normal, as it forces new players to actually learn and play the game without getting help from nightmare and hell characters.
Problem with nightmare is most people rush through it to get to hell. Nightmare is the hardest difficulty to find games and has the least number of players, functions more as a stop over and staging ground for hell and seems a lot of people get stranded there and can't find groups.

DuFFBeeR wrote:
A combination of "hell can join nm" and "a1 nm can join a5 norm" should be perfect ?

Soulmancer wrote:
yeh!

First step will be to allow Hell chars to join NM games. The other part will be implemented once I find a way to do it because there is no quest flag parsing in the current source code of PvPGN since this is only needed inside a D2GS game, which I don't have the source code.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:45 am 
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good show!

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:09 am 
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Thanks for pilfering through that poop fest and attempting to come up with a viable solution that will appease most people while trying to keep rushing at a minimum. I thoroughly enjoyed getting through normal without somebody bringing in a 95+character.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:18 am 

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ty. now we can put this drama to bed. it is unfortunate thou that it has created such animosity within our community. i hope this compromise will satisfy everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:28 am 
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Ahh good a compromise I like it! I'm sure some people on both extreme's won't like it but hey at least we met somewhere in the middle. The hell and nm were definitely needed though, if you can't get rid of nm completely might as well allow help from hell chars.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:40 am 

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for me actually nm helps lvling up chars even thou i use my higher chars to help on the bosses along with getting some much needed pratice on how to play a new char build.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:46 am 
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what is next change ?

:-D


lets talk about


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:25 am 
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that is a shame, finding parties for the NM baal quest is going to get a lot more difficult.

People do one of a few things when they come to a quest boss:

1. Work together as a team to overcome the challenge.
2. Rely on a overpowered build, powerful items, or exploit to overcome the challenge.
3. Hit their friends list and ask for a high lvl character to come in and overcome the challenge for them and their party.
4. Beg in channels/games/forums for high lvl help
5. Fail.

With 3&4 out of the way, people were actually doing quite a bit of 1&5 with a little bit of 2 in there as well. Now though, it will go back to mostly 3&4 which is in my opinion a real shame. As more people get swept up in the 3&4 path, there are fewer people available for option 1, hence my first sentence.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:52 am 
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I would have liked to have the Hell -> Nightmare just like Nightmare -> Normal.. but whatever. I hope this will work out, although I doubt it..


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:32 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
that is a shame, finding parties for the Hell baal quest is going to get a lot more difficult.


Did you mean norm or nm instead of hell? I don't think much will change in normal. You can only really reasonably get to 70 or so in act1 nm. NM baal may suffer the plague of the past, I agree, but NM is basically empty no matter what.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:03 pm 
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kramuti wrote:
Did you mean norm or nm instead of hell?

Oops - yep. edited my post.

NM is empty now? I didn't have a problem pullin a team together with my sorc when I did NM baal. Took only one try to get a team together. With this new change, I suspect that you may end up waiting 3-8 days before finding a party

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:25 pm 

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To make long Story Short. I'm glad this changes go in, I like them much more than anti rush was. Thx Duff for a pool and making actualy happen somthing conected to it.
Blue not much would be changed, with it. For me there wikll be only one adventage, i can ask friend to bypass nm andy ( since she is psn immune it is hard to do it with a psn-er) rest of nm should be easy thru hell.Either way i'm happy cos i'v alredy find way to baypass normal kindly easy :D


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:54 pm 
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good for you. /golfclap

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:20 pm 
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Prescot wrote:
To make long Story Short. I'm glad this changes go in, I like them much more than anti rush was. Thx Duff for a pool and making actualy happen somthing conected to it.
Blue not much would be changed, with it. For me there wikll be only one adventage, i can ask friend to bypass nm andy ( since she is psn immune it is hard to do it with a psn-er) rest of nm should be easy thru hell.Either way i'm happy cos i'v alredy find way to baypass normal kindly easy :D


I don't think this is what Mancer and Duff are going for :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:37 pm 
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IMO, NM was the difficulty least populated in the past because people just got rushed through it. It is curently the most populated difficulty on HC. Now we have to make more private games to avoid the leechers that will infest hell. Most who are rushing won't care if some random leecher joins the game now. They don't need the help of all in the game. NM diablo and Baal were the 2 quests that actually prepared folks for hell.

See how it goes though.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:35 am 
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You guys buckled like a cheap belt letting hell join nm.

May as well have normal chars go straight to hell. Skip nightmare altogether.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:18 am 
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nedder wrote:
You guys buckled like a cheap belt letting hell join nm.

May as well have normal chars go straight to hell. Skip nightmare altogether.


I agree, but we've had it one way I guess. It's not really an antirush if you just need to get through norm (very easily) and get a 99 to run you the rest of the way.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:10 am 
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sounds great

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:10 am 

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To avoid turning every nm game into a rush, how about changing it to a1 hell chars can join a5 nm games?


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:38 am 
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Draped wrote:
To avoid turning every nm game into a rush, how about changing it to a1 hell chars can join a5 nm games?

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:10 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Draped wrote:
To avoid turning every nm game into a rush, how about changing it to a1 hell chars can join a5 nm games?


speedbump to hell or not there is no challenge when you have the fully geared seasoned tundra runner come and destroy everything. might as well set everything in nm to have 1 hp and just be a long walk if these are the changes. not everyone deserves to be in hell, why cater to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:20 pm 
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after what i went through today doing norm baal i see things getting super bad really fast. 3 players (van_van, stev and another one)in a baal game with me, all 3 sat in the corner, one with our oak and one with our auras, IDK wtf the other one was i couldn't see from the other side of the room at that point. Leaving me to tank baal on a melee zon.

Mind you, every few mins they did move into the middle... To fill up on the reds and juvs I had dropped in the center that they were using killing vines on the other side of the room. They shouldn't progress and didn't because I just rejoined and waited for them to leave instead. They totally fuck up partys games and do nothing but fill sport for a more usefull player. I'd rather not play priv games in hell but we are gonna have to just to avoid these fools.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:28 pm 

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The rest of these arguments should be heard in the arguments forms.

I have started a post there named "Blue's Master Race"

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:13 pm 

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PureRage-DoD wrote:
after what i went through today doing norm baal i see things getting super bad really fast. 3 players (van_van, stev and another one)in a baal game with me, all 3 sat in the corner, one with our oak and one with our auras, IDK wtf the other one was i couldn't see from the other side of the room at that point. Leaving me to tank baal on a melee zon.
I see how the anti-rush would stop such occurrences in normal. Let me see here nm chars already cannot enter normal, so how did that change? People will continue using such tactics no matter what system is in place.
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Mind you, every few mins they did move into the middle... To fill up on the reds and juvs I had dropped in the center that they were using killing vines on the other side of the room. They shouldn't progress and didn't because I just rejoined and waited for them to leave instead. They totally fuck up partys games and do nothing but fill sport for a more usefull player. I'd rather not play priv games in hell but we are gonna have to just to avoid these fools.
The only solution is just that priv games if you don't want them in your games. Some of those people doing this are always going to cheese the game. No amount of changes will stop them. Sad, really that that is how they play. I was in 3 separate nm games today alone, each one doing council all wanted to s/s them, so I left. I'm stuck in nm cuz I don't play that way. My group is not as active as I'd like atm.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:13 pm 
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It keeps them out of the harder difficultys until they learn what they are supposed to do. At least that way they don't cause a mess of otherwise really good games. It gets harder as you go through and having that kinda play in a hell game on HC is just an accident waiting to happen. I rather play public games on the higher difficultys safe in the knowledge that the people who join the game are capable players (after getting past norm/nm).

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:21 pm 
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kwikster wrote:
I see how the anti-rush would stop such occurrences in normal. Let me see here nm chars already cannot enter normal, so how did that change? People will continue using such tactics no matter what system is in place.

Its a 2 step logical leap. People will do that in Norm games and by in large still be able to get to NM because when push comes to shove the normal baal quest isn't that hard and most teams can accomplish it even with a little baggage along for the ride.
NM Baal is rather challenging though and is a pretty good roadblock to lousy teams, EXCEPT if they can get in someone super-powered to steamroll them through.
So the point is that if there are people like this doing that in Norm, they will be doing the same thing in NM as well. With the anti-rush they don't succeed. Without it, they do.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:00 am 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
kwikster wrote:
I see how the anti-rush would stop such occurrences in normal. Let me see here nm chars already cannot enter normal, so how did that change? People will continue using such tactics no matter what system is in place.

Its a 2 step logical leap. People will do that in Norm games and by in large still be able to get to NM because when push comes to shove the normal baal quest isn't that hard and most teams can accomplish it even with a little baggage along for the ride.
NM Baal is rather challenging though and is a pretty good roadblock to lousy teams, EXCEPT if they can get in someone super-powered to steamroll them through.
So the point is that if there are people like this doing that in Norm, they will be doing the same thing in NM as well. With the anti-rush they don't succeed. Without it, they do.


Most people who can steamroll their way to nightmare baal in a 8 player game are a very high level. Most of them will either refuse to help or simply tell them how they should proceed. I know of a certain player who always goes "afk" in-games just to leech.

Players who get to NM Baal are usualy around level 80-85, if they cannot manage to do Baal their team is poorly made.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come. DONE.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:15 pm 
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still don't understand why only the change was made to sc...I would imagine hc would be more prone to needing the change then sc...it having a smaller community and all.

still hit 85 by time of nm baal anyway....does another 10 levels really help that much? I know gear may be better but I don't think it would lead to anyone being able to solo....then again maybe not.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come. DONE.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:02 pm 
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yes gear differ, and this is a game largely based on what ur wearing.
also, that 95 can join all acts, im only 6x in a1 nm

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come. DONE.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:12 pm 
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Bob908 wrote:
still hit 85 by time of nm baal anyway....does another 10 levels really help that much?

The gear really does take a pretty steep upward tick from 85 onward.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Rush change to come. DONE.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:27 pm 
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is it possible to add a level restriction to games just for high and not for low???
example: for normal, 10 level restriction, so to a game created by a lvl50 char can join chars betwen lvl1-60 , and for nightmare 5 lvls restriction, for a game created by a lvl85 char, just join chars betwen lvl1-90, to a game created by a lvl70, only join chars betwen 1-75, etc. and for hell, no restrictions (just chars over lvl 85 are supposed to be there).

this way you keep high lvl chars from joining low lvl char games to rush and you wont fuck the muling since the lows can join the game a high-lvl created.


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