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 Post subject: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:33 pm 
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I've been asked by Diablofans.com to participate in an interview/article regarding Hell Unleashed and modding. This will be viewed by a lot of players within the diablo community, outside interests and even blizzard employees.

Donno much on the details yet, but I'll be finding out more soon. So take that into consideration in the update patch that there may be considerably new players discovering HU for the first time after this patch is completed and after the server reset. If you're having difficulty weighing certain options of change and balancing; error on the side of caution. As it would be nice to draw in many new players!


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:20 pm 
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Nice.

Hopefully I will be able to get my server up and running by then on Windows 7 so that I can help support the community.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:37 am 

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Very good news, happy to hear!


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:52 am 

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Sounds excellent. Being a bit of a newbie to HU will be nice to see new faces.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:54 am 
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Awesomeness, it would be rly nice to see more people within the HU community.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:07 am 
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Soulmancer wrote:
So take that into consideration in the update patch that there may be considerably new players discovering HU for the first time after this patch is completed and after the server reset. If you're having difficulty weighing certain options of change and balancing; error on the side of caution. As it would be nice to draw in many new players!


Designing the patch is in your hands. I have stepped back from the project since you stated that you are not interested in the adjustments I have currently made (my recommendations are here)

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:59 am 
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More than new players this mod needs new ladder/patch first! And it's up to you so don't hold on Soulmancer!


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:10 pm 
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Blue, don't offer to help unless your willing to actually help rather then starting something if you abandoned it. All I asked for was a community developed update that made consensus based changes and dealt with balancing issues. Many of the proposed changes seemed a bit too much in some areas and met with a lot of opposition

You said you were willing to help and work on this patch. Abandoning the project entirely because the patch isn't exactly what you wanted and implemented all of the changes you or some specificly wanted is not cool. I gave you instructions early on as to make consensus based changes and balancing fixes. Clearly from the opposition, this was not being done and some of the proposed changes being made sounded like a bit too much. I gave you instructions and tried to help guide it from what I was hearing from the community and made suggestions, obviously this was not what you seemed more interested in taking a different route. Don't offer to do something next time if you're not actually interest in doing what needs to be done.

I guess I'll just move ahead with the reset with no update since no one seems up to getting the job done.


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:16 pm 
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I did what was asked - I compiled the feedback that the community made over several months and put it in to a patch that was visible to the public for a long period of time. I made adjustments according to feedback that was given in the public forums. You can see that information in the link I provided.

If you want to implement that information - cool. I am happy to help in integrating that information by editing the text files too.

If you want something else, that is your prerogative this is your mod and I will always support whatever you want to do with it. I won't be a Soulonyx and try to force something on you. However, I have no personal interest in making just small adjustments to the mod and re-doing all the work I have done over the past few months. So if you want something different from the community developed patch that was designed (namely a patch that includes skillers, high strength on items, high resists, etc) that is going to be your ballpark.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:31 pm 
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Sorry to interrupt, but could you, Soulmancer, say what's "too much" in your opinion? I can agree these guys nerfed pretty everything, but skills changes are ok, crafts too, but when you combine reducing cb% with lower %res, no skillers and not giving back anything in return then it's not good. I'm sure these are 100% suggestions for hardcore players(not playing D2HC for that matter) but this mod has also average players, even casuals.
Also (To Soulmancer) If you don't like one aspect you could always adjust it somehow, it's not like changing 20% res to 30% res is a big deal when you don't have that large number of uniqs


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:36 pm 
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Congratulations on the interview Soulmancer.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:17 pm 
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That may be Blue, but there was also a lot of opposition in the community to some of the changes as well and you didn't seem interested in middle ground on dealing with those changes. Compiling changes from half of the community while ignoring the concerns of the other half is not consensus based changes. I tried to offer you a number of middle ground solutions in these changes earlier on but as stated you're not interested in that. This is why i tried to make it a point to make smaller changes and focus on tweaking and balancing issues rather then making such dramatic changes like the removal of skill charms, which would require most skills to be re-tooled at the high end spectrum. I had a few people state they would quit over some of the changes.

The goal of the patch/update as I stated was slight changes and balancing fixes and other issues. I stated this at the beginning and tried to re-iterate that on a number of occasions and it seemed I was ignored. I appreciate the work you invested and while there was a lot of support for these changes there was also a lot of opposition. You also gave me a list of different options on how I think you should proceed and I gave you an answer and you chose to stop working on it entirely and ended up doing a lot more work then you needed to do early on. While I liked some of the changes personally, there were simply too many changes which I warned wouldn't be a good idea. Nerfing crushing blow, 3x spawn min, removing skill charms, making monsters/bosses do a lot more damage, dropping str bonus on numerous items all in one patch would be a huge balancing shift and that was not the intended goal of the updated. Maybe half the community wants those changes but clearly the other half doesn't and I tried to offer many middle ground solutions and directions which you didn't seem interested in.


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:37 pm 
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As I said - I have no problem with that. You should proceed as you choose, that is your right.

Just don't try to place some blame on me about not doing what I said I would do. I did precisely what I said I would do.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:41 pm 
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I hope PureRage's skills changes are still green light to go!!


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:48 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
As I said - I have no problem with that. You should proceed as you choose, that is your right.

Just don't try to place some blame on me about not doing what I said I would do. I did precisely what I said I would do.


I don't think he is blaming you for anything really, he just doesn't like all your changes in the patch you wanted. I hope he isn't blaming you anyways, I mean you put a ton of time into this and you obviously care about the mod. I hope everyone can see this and respect what you do around here, I know I do.

I didn't agree with the overall patch, but by no means do I discredit any of the work time and effort you put into make this a better place for everyone. For that I only thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:23 pm 
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I never said I was blaming you. You did offer to help though. I did state what I wanted to accomplish with the update and the direction I was hoping for. I was just going to do a very limited tweak patch, but if the community was interested in a more extensive patch then someone else would have to work on it. But there needs to be a balanced approach that takes into account both sides of the spectrum. The concerns were only on a few planned changes, not all of them but it's your call if you want to abandoned all the work if you don't feel it can be compatible with a more middle ground approach to some of the changes rather then an all or nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:29 pm 
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Soulmancer wrote:
I was just going to do a very limited tweak patch, but if the community was interested in a more extensive patch then someone else would have to work on it.


Yep - I was/am interested in a more extensive patch and was willing to do the work on it. Still am.

Soulmancer wrote:
The concerns were only on a few planned changes, not all of them but it's your call if you want to abandoned all the work if you don't feel it can be compatible with a more middle ground approach to some of the changes rather then an all or nothing.


Middle ground is cool. I am all for adding more crushing blow rather than the more draconian 1% that the balance team was in favor of. I also feel that adding +1 skills to the soulstones was a good middle ground rather than simply stripping out skill charms entirely which is what I initially had in mind.

Leaving skill charms in, buffing all the gear and letting people have 5 points in strength at the end game though isn't much of a change, it is just business as usual and to be honest I am not all that interested in going that route as that is "a very limited tweak patch" and we have already established that is something you would tackle.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:00 pm 
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Man hate to say this but you really have zero respect for anything he just said .. Ya when did you ever agree on anything like that.. Never.!.! it was the patch that you and that dev team made nothing what the rest of us said .. As i said you don't even go an ask on the realm..And before you say I don't your on my Flist on both acc's and never see you online..Thats why this realm and forum needs change.. 8-) .. Remmber numb nuts I rushed your rabies drood so you can test it .. And got tuns of shit for doing so .. Ya my bad ... But I guess you will have some super crazy answer as why .. Can't wait.. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:14 pm 

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blue_myriddn wrote:
Middle ground is cool. I am all for adding more crushing blow rather than the more draconian 1% that the balance team was in favor of. I also feel that adding +1 skills to the soulstones was a good middle ground rather than simply stripping out skill charms entirely which is what I initially had in mind.

Leaving skill charms in, buffing all the gear and letting people have 5 points in strength at the end game though isn't much of a change, it is just business as usual and to be honest I am not all that interested in going that route as that is "a very limited tweak patch" and we have already established that is something you would tackle.
As for this area Blue and Mancer, how does this sound: nerf skillers and replace with the modded shards with this change instead of all classes on each charm, make it random classes and +1-2 skill. This would necessitate having to farm them a bit more to get you specific class and potentially greater reward. Many of the changes I do like, perhaps hitting a max 5%cb would be doable. Reducing strength bonuses from gear instead of complete removal, would still mean necessary to add some str atleast.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:23 pm 
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kwikster wrote:
make it random classes and +1-2 skill.


(a) don't know how to make it random class
(b) setting it to +1-2 would allow people to get more skills from their inventory than they currently can and would therefore be a step in the wrong direction, so no thanks. The idea is to empower gear, not inventories.

kwikster wrote:
Reducing strength bonuses from gear instead of complete removal,


I didn't complete remove strength bonuses, I simply reduced them. That should be clear from reviewing the gear. Most all of early game strength bonuses are untouched.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:29 pm 
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Quote:
nerf skillers and replace with the modded shards with this change instead of all classes on each charm, make it random classes and +1-2 skill
Imo that could work but no warries on skills - just +2 on diablo or meph and +3 on baal or diablo. Also give gc's more hp, without overleveled oak/bo you shouldn't get that much hp boost you would need. Well there is also dmg+ar on charms that could be tweaked but well - It requires some love from admin - not just us saying things here and there ;/ It's kinda sad.
Quote:
(a) don't know how to make it random class
randclassskill in prop colums - par1=1 min1=0 max1=6, also check properties.txt and remove "3" number before that - as I said in another post(viewtopic.php?p=20155#p20155), this was used only on hell fire torch with flat +3 so no meaning to wary that(by blizzard).


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:29 pm 

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the opposition to this patch is by very few, very loud players who complain out of all proportion compared to those who support it.

the reason blue is in his position is because many of us gathered ideas from many players and helped compile it over the last few months. blue and kevin actually did most of the edits that are in the proposed patch.

while moderation is a good position, I have my doubts as to whether blue and kevin will continue to work any further on this patch. the loud-mouths cannot be counted upon to do any edits, and soulmancer of course doesn't want to either. at this point, its pretty simple. new patch with reset, or no patch and reset.

I for one support the new patch, because of all the work and good changes to come. it won't be the end of the world if the game changes slightly.


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:08 pm 
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Well in your opinion, what do you feel are the most important changes that should be implemented? I do like a lot of the proposed changes but some of the changes seem a bit overkill in how they would stack.

3x min spawn, nerfed crushing blow, reduced strength, reduced resistance and harder hitting bosses for instance. while one of those things alone wouldn't have a huge impact. That's a pretty intense nerf for melee classes who generally already have an advantage vs bosses and a disadvantage vs trash mobs.

The impact of skillers more come into play end game and yes I'd be interested in seeing that balanced because some caster classes become overpowered when they stock up on skillers. But in hell difficulty a lot of elemental classes do depend on a few skillers to be effective. Removing skillers is a huge drop in DPS for casters.

Hence my concerns, as it seems as of now players can become too overpowered in Hell, but if all those changes are implemented full force I'm worried hell difficulty may become pretty much impossible except for the best players with the best possible gear combinations, which is not what I want to see. I want to see a balance between the two so that players are not overpowered end game or underpowered unless they have all the best gear.

As stated I do like a lot of your changes, all I suggested was maybe toning down some of those changes or implementing something that would help offset the changes so they aren't so dramatic. Cause I know if they were all implemented in full force I'd never create a melee character if I'm going to die far easier and do a lot less damage. If people have to invest in strength there going to have less life overall- monsters inflicting more damage and players having reduced resistances. You can see the issue, while some of these ideas are fine on there own, when you stack them on top of one another it becomes "too much"


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:14 pm 

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blue_myriddn wrote:
kwikster wrote:
make it random classes and +1-2 skill.

(a) don't know how to make it random class
(b) setting it to +1-2 would allow people to get more skills from their inventory than they currently can and would therefore be a step in the wrong direction, so no thanks. The idea is to empower gear, not inventories.

Unless I'm wrong the shards aka soulstones are carry one items. Meaning a total of 5 (Andy, Duriel, Mephisto, Diablo, and Baal) for a total max of 10 to skills. This with the removal of Heroes reward would in fact limit skills to a reasonable level without the overkill of the 18 gcs some people currently carry. This would correspond to removal of skillers as well. I'm looking at a possibility to assist with ideas to move patch forward, not destroy it, since I know little on coding.
Pious wrote:
the opposition to this patch is by very few, very loud players who complain out of all proportion compared to those who support it.the reason blue is in his position is because many of us gathered ideas from many players and helped compile it over the last few months. blue and kevin actually did most of the edits that are in the proposed patch.

I for one support the new patch, because of all the work and good changes to come. it won't be the end of the world if the game changes slightly.
For some of us who came late to the party, our input was not there at the start, and has been largely ignored anyway. That or we're made to look like idiots who know fuck all about HU or even D2 for that matter. This much I do know, balance is a fine line easily crossed, hard to manage. Never have I said it's not good work, just some could use a little less aggressive change.

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Last edited by kwikster on Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:19 pm 

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Soulmancer wrote:
Well in your opinion, what do you feel are the most important changes that should be implemented? I do like a lot of the proposed changes but some of the changes seem a bit overkill in how they would stack.

3x min spawn, nerfed crushing blow, reduced strength, reduced resistance and harder hitting bosses for instance. while one of those things alone wouldn't have a huge impact. That's a pretty intense nerf for melee classes who generally already have an advantage vs bosses and a disadvantage vs trash mobs.

The impact of skillers more come into play end game and yes I'd be interested in seeing that balanced because some caster classes become overpowered when they stock up on skillers. But in hell difficulty a lot of elemental classes do depend on a few skillers to be effective. Removing skillers is a huge drop in DPS for casters.

Hence my concerns, as it seems as of now players can become too overpowered in Hell, but if all those changes are implemented full force I'm worried hell difficulty may become pretty much impossible except for the best players with the best possible gear combinations, which is not what I want to see. I want to see a balance between the two so that players are not overpowered end game or underpowered unless they have all the best gear.

As stated I do like a lot of your changes, all I suggested was maybe toning down some of those changes or implementing something that would help offset the changes so they aren't so dramatic. Cause I know if they were all implemented in full force I'd never create a melee character if I'm going to die far easier and do a lot less damage. If people have to invest in strength there going to have less life overall- monsters inflicting more damage and players having reduced resistances. You can see the issue, while some of these ideas are fine on there own, when you stack them on top of one another it becomes "too much"


I know you've never been fond of me but I'll express my opinion anyway because I feel I'm one of the few logical people left. First of all, take this simple observation into consideration and everything makes sense. The game is too easy at it is, you designed this Mod for softcore players yet HardCore players walk all over it like dog shit in your front yard. Shouldn't that say something? The overall difficulty of the mod is very easy as is, you can't argue that. There have not been considerable changes made to improve difficulty in a long time. If you acknowledge at least this, then everything else makes sense.

Changes need to be done, whether they are "drastic" or not should not be the main concern and the balance issues you mention are hardly applicable. Melee chars do fine against trash and lets not forget the party orientation of the game, barbs aren't meant to tank and slaughter a boss all in one. The man purpose of most melee oriented characters is tanking. Crushing blow is way over powered. It's just common sense, do the math. I don't need to explain it.

A1 mercs are still ridiculous, crushing blow is way over powered, most elemental chars do WAY over kill on damage especially with skillers. Poison necs are a fine example. Let's stab diablo twice with poison dagger and watch him die, I witnessed that due to HIGH elemental damage and skillers. Rebalancing is a not simple feat, drastic changes will be necessary but in the end it will be the best for this mod and the community. You have to be willing to try, that's all I'm saying. Shooting down the possibility of change for the better over something so small as a little opposition is not the right decision. Spend a few hours.. and work with blue to build a patch that will be best for the overall community, removing skillers is an option.. increasing lvl req and rarity is another option. There are small changes that can be made with huge impact with balance issues easily being met. It requires a little work... but you have to be willing.

If your not personally interested in doing somewhat major and minor changes and won't allow Blue to do so then that is a pretty unfair standing. As far as the players who argue against the changes most of them are not experienced players and have not been around here nearly as long as most of us. The players who want changes are the more logical and much more skilled, experienced players. You should count their opinion far higher then that of any other.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:46 pm 

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Lee wrote:
If your not personally interested in doing somewhat major and minor changes and won't allow Blue to do so then that is a pretty unfair standing. As far as the players who argue against the changes most of them are not experienced players and have not been around here nearly as long as most of us. The players who want changes are the more logical and much more skilled, experienced players. You should count their opinion far higher then that of any other.

Hmm so basically you're telling anyone who currently finds the mod challenging to basically leave it and go back to vanilla? That's the basic impression I get. I've said most changes are good, but some are an over-adjustment. Think like this, you're racing a car that's a bit loose in the turns, big adjustment or small one? Same principal, too large an adjustment will have a significant impact across the board. As it stands now, only the "end game gear" is drastically affected. Why should some of us who a) haven't played HU long, b) don't have the time and c) already find it challenging be suffered to submit to a few who want major change? That goes against logic. Look around, how many new faces do you see? If you play much, you'll likely as not see a new face, they get frustrated and quit cuz it's so much more difficulty than vanilla. The single best way to restore difficulty back to HU is nerf the seriously OP build such as meteor sorcs, psn necro and a few others. Not through wholesale major changes.

Yes, I'm being vocal, but also trying to be reasonable.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:48 pm 

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Soulmancer wrote:
Well in your opinion, what do you feel are the most important changes that should be implemented? I do like a lot of the proposed changes but some of the changes seem a bit overkill in how they would stack.

3x min spawn, nerfed crushing blow, reduced strength, reduced resistance and harder hitting bosses for instance. while one of those things alone wouldn't have a huge impact. That's a pretty intense nerf for melee classes who generally already have an advantage vs bosses and a disadvantage vs trash mobs.

The impact of skillers more come into play end game and yes I'd be interested in seeing that balanced because some caster classes become overpowered when they stock up on skillers. But in hell difficulty a lot of elemental classes do depend on a few skillers to be effective. Removing skillers is a huge drop in DPS for casters.

Hence my concerns, as it seems as of now players can become too overpowered in Hell, but if all those changes are implemented full force I'm worried hell difficulty may become pretty much impossible except for the best players with the best possible gear combinations, which is not what I want to see. I want to see a balance between the two so that players are not overpowered end game or underpowered unless they have all the best gear.

As stated I do like a lot of your changes, all I suggested was maybe toning down some of those changes or implementing something that would help offset the changes so they aren't so dramatic. Cause I know if they were all implemented in full force I'd never create a melee character if I'm going to die far easier and do a lot less damage. If people have to invest in strength there going to have less life overall- monsters inflicting more damage and players having reduced resistances. You can see the issue, while some of these ideas are fine on there own, when you stack them on top of one another it becomes "too much"


this is fair enough. I do realize that a "domino effect" could happen with so many changes adding up together. Blue, Kevin, are you still working off the list Jarl created in the dev forum? I suppose we could remove a few of the changes that may be considered over the top.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:06 pm 

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kwikster wrote:
Lee wrote:
If your not personally interested in doing somewhat major and minor changes and won't allow Blue to do so then that is a pretty unfair standing. As far as the players who argue against the changes most of them are not experienced players and have not been around here nearly as long as most of us. The players who want changes are the more logical and much more skilled, experienced players. You should count their opinion far higher then that of any other.

Hmm so basically you're telling anyone who currently finds the mod challenging to basically leave it and go back to vanilla? That's the basic impression I get. I've said most changes are good, but some are an over-adjustment. Think like this, you're racing a car that's a bit loose in the turns, big adjustment or small one? Same principal, too large an adjustment will have a significant impact across the board. As it stands now, only the "end game gear" is drastically affected. Why should some of us who a) haven't played HU long, b) don't have the time and c) already find it challenging be suffered to submit to a few who want major change? That goes against logic. Look around, how many new faces do you see? If you play much, you'll likely as not see a new face, they get frustrated and quit cuz it's so much more difficulty than vanilla. The single best way to restore difficulty back to HU is nerf the seriously OP build such as meteor sorcs, psn necro and a few others. Not through wholesale major changes.

Yes, I'm being vocal, but also trying to be reasonable.



Terry didn't name the mod Hell Unleashed so that new players could come along and rename it Heaven Unleashed. The point of the mod is to be difficult, challenging. If the challenge turns players away, why did they bother in the first place? It's like I give you two options Heaven or Hell, you pick Hell and then ask for Heaven? It makes no sense. The mod is suppose to be CHALLENGING. Currently, is it? To what degree? It was originally a softcore mod, so challenging that HardCore was NOT recommended, even by Terry himself. Now Hardcore can compete just as fast as softcore players do with minimal deaths and hardly much difficulty.

I didn't say lets drastically change everything and make the mod ridiculously HARD so no one will ever want to play it. There needs to be balancing PERIOD. We aren't talking about extremes here. The word balance is being used.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:21 am 
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Soulmancer wrote:
3x min spawn,.... and harder hitting bosses for instance.


Just for the record, I have never advocated either of these things. The only time "harder hitting bosses" has come up is because of the reduction in strength and resists on gear.

Just want to make sure you are aware of exactly what it is that I am proposing.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:24 am 

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As long as we can agree on one thing, no extreme changes. I agree there must and will be changes. Therein lies the rub, some are unwilling to adjust their wants to suit many who say different. Certain members have gotten down right rude and obnoxious at times regarding suggestions. To make adjustments for say a dozen or so wanting these changes, versus 80 who don't, why cater to them? I'm using those figures for an example only. I have no true way of knowing actual numbers anymore than most people here do. The harder thing is this patch is being discussed in multiple threads so compiling info is tougher.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:14 am 

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The patch could be focussed on the skill and anti rush changes.
Most of Soulmancers objections seem to be related to the nerfing of items, so how about toning that down a bit? About the soulstones vs gc skillers, I assume soulstones would be easier to collect but require a team to do so, in the sense that their drop location is known, hence eliminating the need for farming of gc's.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:31 am 
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@Soulmancer: Good to see you back and taking control. I have just one question: can we have a week (or a few days) notice before the reset will occur?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:27 am 
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I really like Purerages ideas on stopping rushing, I really wish we would implement those.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:34 am 
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LmT wrote:
@Soulmancer: Good to see you back and taking control. I have just one question: can we have a week (or a few days) notice before the reset will occur?


No. We are tired of waiting for the reset. Do it as soon as possible with no notice.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:43 pm 
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nedder wrote:
LmT wrote:
@Soulmancer: Good to see you back and taking control. I have just one question: can we have a week (or a few days) notice before the reset will occur?


No. We are tired of waiting for the reset. Do it as soon as possible with no notice.


3-7 days after 6 months is nothing. Patience, child!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:07 pm 

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oZio wrote:
I really like Purerages ideas on stopping rushing, I really wish we would implement those.

I like some of the ideas on rushing. If I had more knowledge on coding, I have an idea but not sure if can be implemented. My idea would require you to talk to Tyreal after killing Baal in order to move to next difficulty, with a required level of say 30-40. That would stop rushing by itself.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:22 pm 
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FYI ancients have level requirement so with flags on quest restored it would stop someone's from rushing. Unless everyone wants to leech everything from town...

http://phrozenkeep.hugelaser.com/resour ... 0v2.01.htm If you can see the very first example is from ancient quest exp reward, I haven't checked if level req is hardcoded or not, it should be a small change as levels are 2^7 -1
http://phrozenkeep.hugelaser.com/forum/ ... 37&start=0 - Here's something about it - I can look on it.
Mentor wrote:
I've changed SHL EDX,2 to SHL EDX,3 in order to change the required levels to 30, 60 and 90, but my lvl 80 character was allowed to confront the Ancients.
Myhrginoc wrote:
SHL EAX,3 says "multiply by 8", so 5*8*1 = 40 and 5*8*2=80.
nice or ??


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:26 pm 

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y dont you (soulmancer) make a post, for 2 things, one forum moderators, obviously the forums are extremely disorganized and out of control with the posts, and the other being a brand new suggestion post regarding the new patch, make a time limit of a week and only take the new replies and use them do decide what to do. i am one of the people that used to enjoy this mod alot more when people were around to play it, and to everyone who plays hc, remember this is a sc mod, take that into conisideration. i personally agree with soulmancers origional plan of a few balance changes etc. you have to remember some people who play hu dont use the forum due to all the bs that goes on here. the biggest complaint ive noticed the last few months were the dev team crap, personally there should have been only overall community input, id say one post per person to keep it organized and fair. dev team should only focus on the overall opinion of the responses and act on those, they shouldnt even suggest changes imo. basically my definition of hu is a mod considerably more difficult then vanilla but not almost impossible for the non obsessed player, myself ive never gotten past lvl 90 and the reason is lack of players willing to group up and the fact that since its mplayer its almost impossible to get anywhere soloing. just my 2 cents i hope noone gets offended or upset over this. i just would like to see this mod continue to thrive and grow considering all the time and effort put into it. mike


edit: i forgot to mention, i will reopen my server upon request from either duff or soulmancer. and please put q flags back up hu is more like vanilla without them


Last edited by Eurofox on Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Hello all HU players I just thought I would add my two cents to this post as it seems like its become a major hurdle for all involved. I personally feel this MOD to be excellent just the way it is. I have taken a look at the proposed changes that Blue suggested and feel they are way off balance. I currently focus on playing Softcore as at the moment with the intentions of eventually moving on to Hardcore. I do not feel I am ready for Hardcore at this time due to the difficulty of the current MOD. I may be incorrect in saying that I assume most players intend on eventually playing Hardcore as well. With that being said I wonder if those who have made these suggestions have ever attempted these bosses in Hardcore? If so they would likely see that it is plenty difficult as it is. I agree some minor modifications would be a good thing but nerfing all of the gear, skillers, etc. Is crazy!! I enjoy the challenge but cant spend hour after hour on this game just to complete a single quest. Maybe others can sit at there computer day after day working toward this but for the average player with a job, family and life it would be impractical lol. I apologize if I have offended anyone but i am entitled to my opinion as well. In addition I realize that Blue has put alot of effort into these changes and I thank him for the effort however i completly disagree with his proposals.

v/r Jozep

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:31 pm 

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The only way to find out if the proposed changes will actually unbalance things is to release it.

Put it out call it a beta for 3 months and if it really is as bad as the vocal minority is making it out to be you can go back to the current version which in my opinion, having played hell unleashed since its original version when it was a bunch of us on tcp/ip games, sucks.

From what I've been reading here recently its the same ppl complaining in multiple threads not half the community.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:57 pm 
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Would any of the HC players consider giving up HC and playing only SC for the sake of more players in one place to form groups? Or would this just take all the fun out of the game for those HC players? Like if we dropped HC all together so that we can have a larger player size in one place.

When I mentioned before about Pure Rages ideas I meant his idea on only allowing players with the proper title to play in a difficulty. So players who have finished norm can no longer join a norm game. This would stop Rushing all together I really like his idea.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:11 pm 
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[quote="oZio"]Would any of the HC players consider giving up HC and playing only SC for the sake of more players in one place to form groups? Or would this just take all the fun out of the game for those HC players? Like if we dropped HC all together so that we can have a larger player size in one place.


I would quit the game if HC was droped!!!! There is no point in playing a game where you have nothing to loose. You die big deal just run in and get ur body and die agin or s/e pick up ur body and go die in another game. That is no fun for me. The only way id stick around if Hc was droped would just to make a guy and go in every game i could and start picking fights with pepole trying to play throw the game. He is an ass ur thinking. Yep ur right i am an ass just ask my wife she'd tell ya so. But if Hc was droped picking on pepole and being an ass would be the only way this game would be fun. :twisted:

But that's just me. I see no real big problems with blues proposed patch I say lets give it a go for a while and see how it works out. I know blue, kev and the others did alot of work on it.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:27 pm 
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Nice try on putting HC on a pedestal.

The problem is that you HC players all "chicken" when your life gets low.

I can't play HC for 2 reasons:

1) flaky servers - I shouldn't die from the servers just choking for 30-60 seconds. I also shouldn't have to save+quit every time there is a server or network hiccup.

2) I don't save+quit when others in my party need my oak/summons/tanking because I know if I did quit at certain times (even in SC), that they would die. I've died many times because I stayed, while others end up escaping. You guys in HC don't do that.

So don't go preaching about how noble HC is.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:48 pm 

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just an idea
make an achievement for people who have never died, adding "Hardcore Hfown" to their name
that way you can remove hardcore, get those people to play in softcore to get more people to play together, and continue to give those who never die a reward.

or some other kind of reward that is easily recognized but does not overpower them such as extra skill points or something


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:08 pm 

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If the purpose of this topic was'nt just to troll kevin.........ide reply with


ARE YOU FUCKING HI? You have to be one of those guys who thinks he can get his wifey preggers after the nuts are gone........I say you go cut em off, and see if you can s/e em back on!!!

How bout nedder you come play hardcore with a competent crew.....ie some hc pple that have been around for more then a month. I am not saying there are no competent pple in sc. I am saying the first ones in hc norm tend to be timid no matter where they are from. They have to learn just like everyone else. and that takes time and practice. Have a nice night guys

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:24 pm 

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oZio wrote:
Would any of the HC players consider giving up HC and playing only SC for the sake of more players in one place to form groups? Or would this just take all the fun out of the game for those HC players? Like if we dropped HC all together so that we can have a larger player size in one place.

When I mentioned before about Pure Rages ideas I meant his idea on only allowing players with the proper title to play in a difficulty. So players who have finished norm can no longer join a norm game. This would stop Rushing all together I really like his idea.


I have to say this is not a good idea in my opinion. I understand everyone's motivations to "balance" the mod more and the ultimate goals of the dev team to make changes based on what they think would make things better for the players however there are two problems I see with this and I think it accounts for the chaos happening in the forums right now.

First, there is a lot of inefficiency when a few people try to summarize or advocate for the wants of many (ie look at the inefficiency in politics.
Secondly, there are two types of players in HU, hardcore and softcore. The characteristics of those two types of players are very different and so their perspectives on what should be done to the game to make it harder or better are going to differ because by default there is more to risk in hardcore but more reward (imo to have never died going through the game). It would be completely unfair to get rid of hc and force those players to only play sc. Sc works for some players and that is great, but it would not work for me for the simple fact that when you have endgame lvl and endgame gear, there is no excitement left. In hardcore endgame lvls and endgame gear doesnt mean you cant die. Ask those who have taken on Los Necro.

Because this is a cooperative mod I do feel like if there were more players to cooperate with there would be less rushing and helping. But it is a double edged sword (no pun intended) bc the mod is cooperative and at times you cant move forward unless you have a party to help you is the reason you help others. This is going to occur no matter what things you change to diminish it, no matter what rules you put forth, or how hard you make the mod, wont solve this. Just more players are needed. I especially feel this in Hc bc its a ghost town most of the time, not at reset but soon after the tried and true players make it to hell, anyone who wasnt on a team is left behind. I think providing incentives for players to try hardcore or softcore would be more of an answer. Whether it be having more treasures or endgame items in hc, I think more players should try it. Many start in SC to get ready for HC, there needs to be incentive to get more players onto hc, because if you were attracted to HU initially because it was more difficult, then hc follows that theme and is hu on a higher level of difficulty. Remember to balance things from the perspective of HC and SC. If your reason for not playing hc is because of your connection or lag or whatever than stay with sc, but that isnt something more balancing will fix. Again this is my opinion and hopefully everyone can take a useful perspective away from this.

-Delta


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Ozio HC is already a small amount of players because a lot of people dont have the stomach for it. I don't think you would notice the difference anyway.

Your solution does not fix your problem...it is only a band-aid in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:12 am 
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Soulmancer you gotta smite them noobs. If they think its 'too easy' and whatever, TOOO BAAD DEAL WIITH IIIIIT.

Nah seriously, the one putting the work in gets to decide.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:07 am 
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Looked on that level restiction cap and managed to change ancients level restiction to 30/60/90(now it is 20/40/60) as per difficulty. Tested and works ok. only problem it's always multiplied by 1/2/3 unless you somehow separate it but there are 4 different addresses for that. Dunno if interested(as with mana burn fix).


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:54 am 

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Steel wrote:
Looked on that level restiction cap and managed to change ancients level restiction to 30/60/90(now it is 20/40/60) as per difficulty. Tested and works ok. only problem it's always multiplied by 1/2/3 unless you somehow separate it but there are 4 different addresses for that. Dunno if interested(as with mana burn fix).

My suggestion had absolutely nothing to do with ancients in the first place. My idea had been to see if it could be made a quest requirement to talk to Tyreal AFTER killing Baal, in Worldstone chamber. Changing ancients level requrement wouldn't address the rush. As it is now, I can be level 1 and still get Baal quest. For that matter, people would just leave a high level char in normal and nm just to help others get to that quest and catch them up. I've been against the idea of bug rushing since the beginning of D2.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:00 am 
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You can add same level restriction to baal, so you'll end with "quest cannot be done" if you're below that level. It shouldn't be a big problem, you can try for yourself, on phrozenkeep you have quest map and there is somewhere how to add restriction. Good luck.

I tried it on ancients as with flags returned you'll have to be that 20level+ and near them to proceed further UNLESS someone wants to leech everything but you can't help that.
Quote:
My idea had been to see if it could be made a quest requirement to talk to Tyreal AFTER killing Baal
Your idea is only on paper now. Also what's the point? Again leecher would have that quest done if someone there talked(a2q6 speaking to tyrael gives quest done everyone in town even if they joined after duriel's death)... You could try to copy a5q2 (runes reward) as it works that way you're talking about - But that's a hard job to do. So I suggest you do some research on that.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:55 am 

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Now, you're getting my idea. I've seen it happen here too, just like on vanilla. Not often, but it happens, someone will afk their way through normal and nm, cuz a)their lazy b) can't be troubled to perform menial tasks or c) wish to only follow and leech hell since they level faster. As i have said, I do not know much as to coding, I asked if it was possible. I'm working on trying to learn some of these things, and how they function. Would like to see it happen so people will no longer be able to "hitch a ride to hell" but must earn it like 99% of us here.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:44 pm 
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the player can just take the tp to the castle, get bo and run down after its all clear.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:23 pm 

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level requirement on quests then? must be level such and such to complete the last a1 quest, must be level such and such to complete the last a2 quest, etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:32 pm 
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Kev what ever happened with the vote kick system.. Think that was a topic on the old forum.. I really liked that idea.. Would really like to see something in place to hold back the rushers in the game aswell as leechers..

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vote kick would be great but I think i remember Duff saying it was a monumental task to implement that into the realm

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:08 pm 

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Guess I’ll chime in on all this drama. Sounds like everyone wants it his/her way. Hmm changes huh I’ve seen changes from the first pong game til now. They complain then too some wanted bigger paddles some wanted smaller. Some want slower balls some faster balls. Well – I started writing programs and games since the late 1960’s. So yes, I’m old and I’ve seen a lot, programmed a lot and designed a lot. Over the years I found out u can only please some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time.

Hell unleashed was voted the NUMBER ONE mod of the year so it has to have something going for it. Y make major changes to something that already works. There are lots of old sayings like “If its not broken don’t fix it.”, “leave well enough alone”, “too many cooks spoil the broth”, “look before u leap” these r just a few but they relate.

The idea of putting in a patch that is untested or that does not meet the acceptance of the whole community is unthinkable and then to say we can just go Back. Give me a break I want to go forward. That is like planning to fail – Who Wants to Fail? Me I want this mod to grow not witter. Y not figure out and suggest how we can make it better and expand the mod not delete things. Example how do we make other char builds stronger so we have more char builds. Ie. The frinzy barb, the war cry barb, different types of sins and zons. Lets make all the char builds playable.

DON’T RESTRICT THE MOD--EXPAND IT.

Y is everyone so worried bout everyone else and how they play the game. Y does it matter wat other plp r doing. If u don’t like someone leeching in the game u can unparty the person. If u don’t like to be rushed then put char lvls on the game. These r all option YOU all have so don’t complain bout wat others r doing. “Stay out of my bedroom”, “wat happens in Vagas stays in Vagas”, “Don’t ask Don’t tell” Again these r all old sayings that apply.

Before u’ll start making changes how bout figuring out wat the goals should be. Well idk. Plp r saying the game is too easy but there r only 9 lvl 101’s, There r no sorc, barbs, pallys or sins that have made it to lvl 101. Guess this isn’t the goal of everyone to achive the lvl of 101. Hmmm atleast 4 of the dozen or so plp that do most of the complaining or that want changes I know have never completed Los or hell sammy. Infact most plp cant even do hell sammy or Los let alone baal.

Y r we listening to plp that cant lvl to 101 or cant even complete the game or plp that have just started playing.

Guess completing the game cant be a goal. So I don’t know wat is.

Jozep (aka account names adamsandler and dirtyharry) and I (aka account names Mrporter, Disney and Mash) have been a team since the beginning and still find this game a challenge. We have mustard up a number of high chars to defeat the
Evil Lord of Destruction and do so easy but have failed to do so without the risk of dying. HERE is my challenge to u’ll – if any one that can kill hell baal, hell sammy and Los without dying PLEASE enlighten the rest of us. Anyone being able to accomplish this or that has suggestions for changes to accomplish speak up. That is our goal wats yours? Once jozep and I can complete the game with a little hope of surviving then we can go on and play the next challenging part hc.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:51 pm 

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I know who you are mrporter, have run with you. Let me say this, 2 people loading 5-6 chars is not a team. When "team" is discussed it is meant as 5-6 people using 1 char each. It's true that some of us here are new and haven't hit lvl 101 as yet, so what? Does that mean, we know nothing about the game? Does that mean we shouldn't be allowed to speak up and voice opinions on changes? The majority of things Blue, and PureRage have suggested make sense. Others, not so much. Many classes and skills are too op, while others lack. The idea of balancing this is sound. To level out the playing field a bit more. That is the idea of a "balance patch". I'd be interested to hear how many people simply stop at 99 because their happy at that level and choose to go no father? Some people have the view of 99 was max level on vanilla, so that's where they stop. I personally know of one such person.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:57 pm 
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Evil Lord of Destruction and do so easy but have failed to do so without the risk of dying. HERE is my challenge to u’ll – if any one that can kill hell baal, hell sammy and Los without dying PLEASE enlighten the rest of us. Anyone being able to accomplish this or that has suggestions for changes to accomplish speak up. That is our goal wats yours? Once jozep and I can complete the game with a little hope of surviving then we can go on and play the next challenging part hc.


have you seen the number of guardians on HC or do you not understand how HC works?

I took 1 pally to 101 this season and didn't want to take any more, 99 is plenty. even 95 is enough for most builds. Just because there are a low number of level 101 chars don't mean anything. You can get to 101 by running tundra over and over. Level means nothing. My pally was just under 39k life with buffs and he was only 96, plus I could have hit that at level 90 if I had his life charms all at that point. Theres alot of people that have done everything without a death. The mod is supposed to be designed around SC. However, it was a hc team that was the first to kill hell baal this season (before the 1.21z update made things easier). The second hc team to kill hell baal done it on the same day as the first SC group too. If it was so hard then it would be extremely difficult to just kill hell baal on Hc, never mind doing it faster than a SC group can.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:22 pm 
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You assume us SC players cared about killing hell baal. I was in group 2 that was only 2 acts behind group 1 SC and when we got to a5 everyone just wanted to level in tundra and find stuff.

Now if you want to challenge us we will beat you to hell baal :)


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:02 pm 

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WoW both of u guys like to argue – and just for the sake of arguing. U both argue my point very well that reaching lvl 101 is not the goal of everyone. Both of u r the squeaky wheels among a few others bout this patch.

Purge u talk bout how this mod is written for sc yet u brag (and rightfully so) how u were the first in hc to beat baal and b4 sc did it. I was there I saw and -- u and ur team did a great job. Your elite team consisted of the best of the best in players with knowledge and experience and most importantly dedication. So I guess this mod is too easy for u and ur elite team but wat bout the rest of us lol. Don’t make the game harder for ur lvl and don’t make it easier for the not so gifted player.

Carl. I play this game at the top end of sc with my merry group of chars I can kill everything in the game every time but to do it without dying is the trick or my challenge. I use loader, I also rush my chars up to the top end and anyone who wants to join because that where I want to play the game not grinding and grinding thru each and every monster on each and every char. Besides how does the way I play the game diminish ur game or gaming experience. Who died and determined wat makes up a team. Should we stop all games unless they have a specific number of chars in them or they have to have specific char base to complete a quest. I think we should let every one decide for themselves wat makes a team.


Bottom line is I’m stating my opinion and this I don’t want to c this mod reinvented, rebalanced, bastardized, or customize. Sure it needs some tweaks some minor changes but not an overhaul.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:38 am 
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u talk bout how this mod is written for sc yet u brag (and rightfully so) how u were the first in hc to beat baal and b4 sc did it. I was there I saw and -- u and ur team did a great job. Your elite team consisted of the best of the best in players with knowledge and experience and most importantly dedication. So I guess this mod is too easy for u and ur elite team but wat bout the rest of us lol. Don’t make the game harder for ur lvl and don’t make it easier for the not so gifted player.


I didn't kill him first, my group was the second hc group. I guess my elite team of a vengance pally and a summy druid was way too op though and using an amp wand from act 1 norm to act 3 hell made it too easy.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:23 am 

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FYI, Mark you complain about dying while loading multi chars into a game? The game is designed around 5-6 LIVE people loading chars. If you can even think of playing the mod like that, then it's too easy. Simple as that. Besides, most of the time you do that, you SS ever fucking thing, you can. Playing Diablo, you SS'd Moloch, DeSeis, and Amon. Then SS'd Diablo on top of that. On that I'm calling bullshit. SSing is the only way you can walk a game like you're playing and have a snowballs chance in hell of survival. I remember walking with you ATTEMPTING to lvl my char in tundra, what a joke. You guys wander aimlessly around with no attempt to clear anything to help a lower lvl lesser geared char have a chance at survival. Why else do you think I didn't seek your help for other quests?

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:03 am 
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havent read most
but for fuck sakes add the anti rushing if nothing else fuck

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:30 am 
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Besides, most of the time you do that, you SS ever fucking thing, you can. Playing Diablo, you SS'd Moloch, DeSeis, and Amon. Then SS'd Diablo on top of that. On that I'm calling bullshit.
People do SS for some reasons:
1)Played it for a year and 2 months now(getting boring after a while, when some stuff is unkillable - fire sorcs can't kill D)
2)Can't find a team so they ss and get their 2-3 chars(related to 1) )
3)Don't want to sweet too much if there's nothing of a challenge left after that time
And like he said - it's his playstyle, why do you even complain? why do you want everyone to play like you do? If you don't like ESC-> exit and save, yet you stood there and watched him SS Diablo, rofl.


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:14 am 

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Steel wrote:
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Besides, most of the time you do that, you SS ever fucking thing, you can. Playing Diablo, you SS'd Moloch, DeSeis, and Amon. Then SS'd Diablo on top of that. On that I'm calling bullshit.
People do SS for some reasons:
1)Played it for a year and 2 months now(getting boring after a while, when some stuff is unkillable - fire sorcs can't kill D)
2)Can't find a team so they ss and get their 2-3 chars(related to 1) )
3)Don't want to sweet too much if there's nothing of a challenge left after that time
And like he said - it's his playstyle, why do you even complain? why do you want everyone to play like you do? If you don't like ESC-> exit and save, yet you stood there and watched him SS Diablo, rofl.
Ok, I've played the mod for 4 months, yet SSing is for pussies. Loading up an SS'd game with 5-6 chars and complaining about dying? SSing and his play style is why I no longer play with him(that and i told him how I'd fix SSing). What's sadder yet, is getting my Baal quest done, we didn't SS the game anywhere with 8 people in game. If you can't play w/o SSing it's sad. They used to come on a vent server I use. TheyDon't seek playing as a team with outsiders very often. Trying to SS LoS, give me a break.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:39 am 

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The thing about rushing and letting people do their thing is a completely flawed logic.
When I started playing HU in 2006, just a couple of weeks after reset I had to spend weeks making progress in NM simply because I refused to get rushed. Rushers force their playstyle onto others that way and I believe it to be a major force as to why people quit. If you don't have a group or team then you're stuck waiting forever, trying to be online at the right time every second Sunday evening or something because players don't stick around in nightmare. And who wants to get rushed? You just started the game and enjoy the challenge of the mod, then you find out your only reasonable way of making progress is to get rushed?
Several of the newer HC players since then moved on to HC, not because it was HC, but because they were sick of what was going on at SC. Back then, 85%+ of the softcore players would only get rushed and farm tundra, essentially converting the game into the borefest that is vanilla.
I haven't been on the realm for a couple of years now but my guess is that this hasn't changed and as a result the playerbase is as small as ever.
The patch seems great, I don't get it why people think the changes will hurt new players. Normal and nightmare will still be quite easy and people will get rushed/get helped in Hell any way (Don't think there's any anti-rush feature that could prevent this.)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:04 am 
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Rushing is everwhere is really bad in hc to ... Everytime I play hc I see someone rushing someone up.. So its really everywhere and don't think it will ever stop..

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:21 pm 
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there has been a method proposed that will stop rushing as it is today. if that method isnt implemented then i dont know what all this bullshit was even for. im extremely disappointed most of these changes wont be occurring because a bunch of overly vocal ppl whine and moan about having to play a challenging game instead of a vanilla like grind fest and still get on their high horse about playing a 'challenging mod'
a1 mercs
anti rush
cb reduction
dr/res/sorb reductions (maybe slightly tweaked)
and fixing skillers whether it be by soulstone method or carry 8. carry 8 seems like it would be an easier fix and i don't see how the argument can b made that a build NEEEDS 18 skillers to be effective. if that were the case, its the build that might need adjusting. but i doubt thats the case, ppl just want their godly dins running around destroying everything with 18 60 life combat gcs

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:04 am 
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Corr wrote:
When I started playing HU in 2006, just a couple of weeks after reset I had to spend weeks making progress in NM simply because I refused to get rushed. Rushers force their playstyle onto others that way and I believe it to be a major force as to why people quit. If you don't have a group or team then you're stuck waiting forever, trying to be online at the right time every second Sunday evening or something because players don't stick around in nightmare. And who wants to get rushed? You just started the game and enjoy the challenge of the mod, then you find out your only reasonable way of making progress is to get rushed?


100% agreed. I stopped playing (2nd time now) because of rushers. When you are stuck at NM A5 with a charger paladin with an outdated gear, there is little you can do.. and yeah, this is what happens with most of my other characters too. I refuse to get rushed.

About the patch:
The patch is fine, mostly. I'm all for the rush prevention, it ruins the game for many new and not-so-new players. The skill changes are a definite must as well. Increasing the difficulty of Nightmare is also good, it's currently a cakewalk, easier than Normal if you have some better equipment.
The only thing I don't like 100% are the item stat reductions (resists/DR/etc), but those should be fine too; no characters should be invincible by stacking 60 DR in Normal/NM, only those that specialise on being a sturdy, almost invincible tank (and those usually lack damage anyway, which balances it out).
There is a lot of discussion going on about skill charms. In my opinion, the rolling cube recipe should be removed. Most people get their skillers that way and it's not like they drop so often from monsters. This way filling your inventory with skillers for the same tree/class for each character you have will be a pain and close to impossible, especially if you play one of the popular builds (people won't trade the skillers you want because they want it too). And if you put in so much work and time into finding those skillers, I say screw it and allow the guy to be all-powerful.


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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Act 1 hell exp gain needs to be looked at .. As it is now There is next to no exp gain throught that hole act.. Now Its funny that you lvl 88 that just killed nm baal can run wsk to lvl 90 .. But when he gets to act 1 hell his exp gain is crap ...This reallly needs to be looked at and always was a problem.. You want to stop people with rushing through this one area of the game where no one stays very long cuz the hole act as it is is nothing but a waist of time so most just rush on by..

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:15 am 

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Now even im asking if there will be any reset befour x mas .. Caus playing diablo + reading Terry Pratchet gives me the x mas feeling every year.
:!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:16 pm 
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I think you can pretty much book it that there won't be a reset before Christmas man.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:05 pm 

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Asteroth wrote:
Act 1 hell exp gain needs to be looked at .. As it is now There is next to no exp gain throught that hole act.. Now Its funny that you lvl 88 that just killed nm baal can run wsk to lvl 90 .. But when he gets to act 1 hell his exp gain is crap ...This reallly needs to be looked at and always was a problem.. You want to stop people with rushing through this one area of the game where no one stays very long cuz the hole act as it is is nothing but a waist of time so most just rush on by..
When the quest flags are re-activated, rushing through act1 won't be as fast. I agree the exp is a bit low in act1, but don't feel it needs much changing. If we change it people will use act1 to gain a few levels before moving on to later acts.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:58 am 
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a1 is easier than a5nm lvl-dmg-hp wise on mobs. Let it be as tweaking it would require rebalance whole nm and 2 first hell acts. :-). And FYI doing that is like 1-2months per acts if you want to have some balance.
Also Leo is in a1 so that's a reason to stay a little bit longer before move on


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:12 am 

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I have advertised the mod on www.teamliquid.net which is the biggest SC2 site at the moment. My thread has over 2k views and people have voiced their interest. I hope we can make things work out and get the reset done really soon.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:38 am 
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Oh i get to ladder race against TL bros. Nice

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:14 pm 
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like its hard.... I'd reinstall but I'm caught up in sc2 and DCUO beta on ps3 right now :) along with work ~~


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