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 Post subject: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 525
As many of you are probably aware now, bladefury is far too strong in terms of damage. the problem of course was due to a lack of testing done when buffs were added to the skill. there has been a lot of argument on both sides about abuse of the skill but ultimately the only people who can take fault are those in charge of modding and testing.

A large part of the problem is my fault for not taking a more active role in the testing of changes this time around. rest assured this won't happen again. here are a few points I'd like to make:

1. Bladefury will have 1% synergies and be set back to 1/2 weapon damage. in addition, there will be a hit-delay added for single target damage. this skill was not intended to be destroying bosses in the first place, it was meant to be killing trash mobs.

2. Blade shield and blade sentinel have had their synergies reverted back to 20% instead of 40%, same as they were in 1.41B.

3. 1.41D update will be the last one for a long time. this is because we've bombarded Duff with short-notice patches to fix things that should have been tested before the patch went live. the amount of confusion we've created between gateway host and server hosts is truly and embarrassment.

Cheers to everyone and have fun playing!


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:23 pm 
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One thing I ask is test out roughly a lvl 75 bladesin under the new patch to make sure that cutting the synergies to 20% isn't severely weakening them even against trash. They'll be hampered against bosses again of course because no one wants the counters.

I think the damage is right (especially in nightmare forward) if the hit delay doesn't persist.


Also, isn't this the same bug that used to affect teeth necros?


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:42 pm 
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The original bf replacement was designed to be low damage with higher area spread to give the build some decent trash clearing power outside of DS. The synergy adjustment is a huge buff because the synergy boosts the flat damage on the skill.

Unlike say tornado, the flat damage is added as base weapon damage because the skill also uses a % of weapon damage. This results in a sin wielding a 4.5k BASE damage weapon (in essence). That damage is then multiplied by mastery from claw mast, and ed% from str/dex, so the damage ramps up incredibly quickly (LCS won't show this, like smite).

Another note, the listed added damage on the skill is the added base damage before the %WD term. So 100-200 damage listed on the skill, with 1/2 WD term is actually adding 50-100 damage to the base weapon damage.

Blade sentinel differs from this because the sentinel is a summoned minion whos damage is calculated from your main hand weapon upon summoning. Because the summon has no str/dex/mastery, the damage is kept in check and remains in line.

In it's 1.14a form, I was pretty happy with it as a trash clearing skill, and not impressed with it for bosses, but that was OK i feel as it's designed as a trash skill.

Ps. Please add the casters pois pierce onto blade sentinel.

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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:51 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback.. exactly what I was looking for.


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:11 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:12 am
Posts: 103
Nice to see that so many people are exploiting this issue to progress. Absolutely funny as shit to see so many people on softcore just abusing the fuck out of this.


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:17 pm 
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Doesn't affect you it's an entirely different ladder, the competition between ladders was over the minute it was discovered... not a big deal. Let them have their fun :) it's not like they are here talking shit.


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:18 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 112
fk hc can't even catch up to us. gg ez.

Edit:: Hunter didn't you roll a bladesin?


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:07 am 
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This patch has given me all the difficulty and item data I need for the next major patch. People abusing bladesin makes no difference in the long run. Obviously I won't listen to the feedback of anyone who did because they'd rather play an easy mod with broken builds.


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:56 am 

Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 9:43 am
Posts: 140
Nova wrote:
Nice to see that so many people are exploiting this issue to progress. Absolutely funny as shit to see so many people on softcore just abusing the fuck out of this.


Uh... This is how the majority of the SC population has been playing since forever? Since 1.3a at least. Everyone just looking to get to a5 hell and farm. Hopefully with the continued efforts on patching we may eventually reach the point where the trash players will either have to improve or leave but I guess between SS and rushing they will always find a way.''


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:39 am 
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people still single spawn? :s

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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:41 am 
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Snickers220 wrote:
fk hc can't even catch up to us. gg ez.

Edit:: Hunter didn't you roll a bladesin?



Yeah it's pretty fun. I think I'll keep playing her after its fixed or even roll one next season. Bladefury is just an overall fun skill. The assassin gets great DR and resistances... curse immunity if you feel like rolling a redemption blade.. it's a pretty damn solid class as is.


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:13 pm
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hunterAS wrote:
Snickers220 wrote:
fk hc can't even catch up to us. gg ez.

Edit:: Hunter didn't you roll a bladesin?



Yeah it's pretty fun. I think I'll keep playing her after its fixed or even roll one next season. Bladefury is just an overall fun skill. The assassin gets great DR and resistances... curse immunity if you feel like rolling a redemption blade.. it's a pretty damn solid class as is.


@hunter I was just kidding around. I do agree, they've been one of my favorite classes since way way back years ago when they were super OP the first time (blade sentinal didn't have next hit delay irc). As well as fade is insane. The entire trap skill tree is super fun

The thing I dont understand is why so many people are offended or annoyed by this? Who cares if other people you don't know are abusing to get further in the game. It is a video game. If people are having fun, they are doing it right. If they want to get to A5 as fast as possible and farm because they find it fun, more power to them. People are so elitest on here.
Everyone needs to take a big old deep breath and remember this is a game that people come to to relax and entertain them.


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:02 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
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You can't attack the community for using builds that are over powered... when has anything ever changed? Are you telling me none of you have used over powered builds in the past? Of course I don't know how over powered bladesins exactly are.. but over powered builds have always been in HU. This patch was the most balancing.. and a mistake was made but no one should be blamed. No one is perfect but as far as the community goes.. you can't really blame people for using the build. How many poisons zons, firedruids, rabies druids have been made? How many hydra sorcs were used last ladder? Hardly any of us are innocent in terms of not using an over powered hero. Considering PureRage was one of the first people to play one.. and being as knowledgeable as he is.. I'm surprised he couldn't catch the issue in a blink of an eye.

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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
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Btw HC was always ahead until SC made bladesins.. so lol. That's all I have to say ; )

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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:24 pm 
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Lee wrote:
Considering PureRage was one of the first people to play one.. and being as knowledgeable as he is.. I'm surprised he couldn't catch the issue in a blink of an eye.


It wasn't broken until after I got my sin killed. If anything, it was too weak on bosses, but that's like saying frozen orb isn't the best for bosses. True, but it's more designed for area coverage than single target DPS.

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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 525
A few quick points:

1. This isn't just an overpowered skill. It was buffed without any testing in C version and the result is a skill that can hit the damage rollover point in normal difficulty with full screen killing capacity and massively multi-hit on single target. no one can justify this as anything other than a serious mistake in modding that has to be patched asap.
since when has it been OK to have skills doing 100k+ dmg by a5 normal?

2. players cannot be blamed for errors in modding. we simply don't have the means to enforce mass punishments or take the realm down right away to get things fixed. HU has very divided powers at the top and thus the means available are more limited than in other mods.

3. I made a blade assasin and with the help of naz and zac defeated hell baal on softcore in 3 days of play wearing laughably bad equipment available in normal a5. it truly felt like i was playing offline with a rigged out character. most of the bosses would die in under 10 seconds even in hell.

once again, until the fix is updated on the realm you can enjoy bladesins all you want. it is what it is!


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:58 pm
Posts: 225
Lee wrote:
Btw HC was always ahead until SC made bladesins.. so lol. That's all I have to say ; )


SC was disorganised and got stuck in act 1 nm because we couldn't get a balanced party going. Even with bladesins, bosses need tanking and everybody spent a very long time every so often gearing up to make sure we were going to make it.

There is also the fact HC are the same group of people always playing together with a near perfect knowledge of the game. SC is public people. On top of that, the database is out of date.

We made it to act 3 NM before blade sins entered the equation.
Everybody started rolling blade sins at that point because we all realized it was pretty much the only build able to do anything. I kept on with my tankbarian.

There is a massive lack of information about this game and HC players are keeping their secrets. We really need a brand new, easy to access, database.

If I had a group to play with, of course I'd be playing HC. But who else is nuts enough to want to play it with me? Nobody. Nd obviously, all HC games are private.

Give me a group of people with half a brain every ladder and I'll do my best to beat the HC groups to the punch.


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:28 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 734
Riem821 wrote:
There is a massive lack of information about this game and HC players are keeping their secrets. We really need a brand new, easy to access, database.



This is laugh out loud funny. Secrets? Like we have some button that allows us to bypass everything with no issues at all.

All of the information that is available to us is also available to SC and everyone else. The new item changes were posted in the Suggestions part of the forum under my thread about having updated information. Unfortunately Duff ignored my PM about having a new dedicated page for the current items and information or else we would have it all in one easy spot. But to say that HC has secrets is an absolute knee-slapper. We know nothing more about this patch than anyone else does.


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:57 pm 
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It is true HC players are typically more knowledgeable and better players as a whole. That's never been argued. Mancer originally made the mod for SC and people who went HC were really just masochists. :) It's been fun though.

If there are SC players that want to come over and don't have a party for example Reim I'm constantly looking for new people to bring along, I wouldn't mind leveling a new character with you and a few other people.


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:58 pm
Posts: 225
Last ladder I was playing HC by myself because everybody was playing in private.

As for "secrets", I meant non-widely known info. Champion was kind enough to tell me a thing or two about tanking. The fact vita on gear does jack shit to hp% was a mind-shattering revelation. NOBODY in my group or anybody else I asked knew about it.

Trust the HC guys to know all the tricks to not get their asses kicked.

I'd love to give some feedback on Phoenix sins. No idea if there was any in HC but that shit is hard to play, even if the damage is retarded.


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 Post subject: Re: the Bladefury issue
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:11 pm 
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anyway feel free to message me *hunterAS I'm going to be starting up a new character soon I think


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