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 Post subject: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:38 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:36 am
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Location: Phoenix
:oops: :oops: :oops:

the hc community is so dead that i played for twelve hours and only saw kasia and pharoah!!

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:07 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
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HU is dead, it died with the minor hype around 1.4 that never got done.


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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:18 am 
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Have been around softcore at least the last couple of weekends some. Found parties then at least for a bit.

Ya, it's all 1.4's fault...

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:41 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:38 pm
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unfortunately the mod is dead. i still check the forums for updates but i have never seen the mod advertised. there are lots of mods i could play but this mod was so competitive i miss when the project started. there isn't even a way to donate to help the server lots of things could happen to bring this mod back we would have a solid group of players to start it back up i'm sure if it was pushed.


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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:29 am 
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I have put a post at least at bnet forums every time since Soulmancer was done. (i use kramuti there as well). (i, and others, also try to keep spam from overrunning this forum, even when it is active).

Links to several videos are there in the last one. Most are probably out of date on the specific stats of items, and whatnot, but it could help.

I actually would like some of the really old trolls there to play this mod, but they seem have yet to take interest. I have been around there long enough that they recognize me from most of the rest of the swath.

Others have put it on team liquid, made the youtube vids i linked, and stuff.
There are some newer ones too i think on youtube, but am not sure length or quality

Others even made an entire bloody database for us...sadly the last one is getting out of date...

If you, and others can gather some steam behind actually doing some things, then hell ya. A lot of the people that do the modding are gone or tired, busy, or had life beat them with a billy club.

Others have to get around to making changes, or finishing Mrawskrad's stuff, then test, etcetc. This stuff does not happen overnight, over a week...you get the drift. (and this totally ignores the debates that some changes inevitably bring).

People may not like it, hell they may not even agree. Bring concrete ideas, and show that you have done something already, and more people tend to get off of their duffs. Until then it's just a repetition of 'this game is dead because of the last, or next patch', ever since Soulmancer was done modding. Note this is a general statement...you should actually read a lot of the post mortem posts if you don't agree.

(Specifically, this is not directed at you pappy, as you are saying 'sign on you lazy bubes', nor you vbc_jbb whom i was ready to delete as spam, since you are at least giving some start for a new push to get attention drawn, etc).

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
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its quite difficult to put out patches because technically the only person who retains full ownership of it is soulmancer despite the fact that he hasn't made a patch in years. it certainly doesn't help the situation that people who can actually mod the files are becoming more and more scarce to work on patches.

the biggest issue is see is that the game has just become too easy and too repetitive for most people who have been here for any length of time. the next patch needs a significant amount of work to really spice up the way the game plays. as a player, i'd rather see a failed attempt to take things in a new direction than to play the same thing again with very minor changes.


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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Location: Knoxville, TN
Major changes need to come if the mod wants to stay alive.

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:59 pm 
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Is the list mrawskrad did a good enough start on chaning directions? I honestly have not taken a serious look in awhile...some things were pretty different iirc.
Not sure what qualifies, nor what direction people even want to go. There was a lot of time put into what he has done. It would be a waste to not use at least some of it in the future. Is his absence from this permanent? Last I knew, it seemed it was just set down due to life bs.

I don't know if I even buy that a new direction is the only possibility. Large/drastic changes push people away just as much as not changing enough. I am not saying changes, large or small, shouldn't be made. I just don't see it as a way to change the current situation.

People show back up when patches are done.
They go away after they satiated.
Those that stay, were the ones that stayed before, plus some new folks, and minus some old folks.

What vbc_jbb pointed out is something that should be considered by those that are willing to do it. HU has only really been put into other community's hands by a few of us. Several modern sites could be used to try to get new players. I don't know how successful it would be, or if those players would actually be a boon, but it's at least worth some serious thought and effort. I assume others think (as i do atm) that if it is advertised...it should probably not be 'come to a 3 month old ladder and play with us'.

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:05 pm 
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From what I looked at it looked decent and gave a more viable pool of builds. Haven't played it or looked at it very closely, I'm just now finding time to start to come back and play, I can't be as involved in testing and helping as I once was.

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:08 pm 
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LockDown wrote:
Major changes need to come if the mod wants to stay alive.


I think mraw took some steps in the right direction with 1.4, but I agree with pious we need to make the shit harder. Should make a new thread for posting ideas to increase difficulty to throw on top of 1.4

As for new content, I was actually working on stuff, but my sensei has gone MIA so that project came to a halt.

I am equipped to make new levels if someone is able to do all the other bits (I'm decent with the ds1 editor, but terrible with the text files). I'm willing to collaborate, hit me up if anyone feels inspired.

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:11 pm 
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Quote:
I can't be as involved in testing and helping as I once was.


Ya, that is happening to a lot of us. I may be able to help do some modding at some point. It just isn't now, nor in the near future. I won't commit to doing anything until at least the end of spring semester. If summer is anything like last summer, I shouldn't commit then either...

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:18 pm 
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kramuti wrote:
Is the list mrawskrad did a good enough start on chaning directions?


I've spent a couple hours testing all the new skills on 1.4, I think they're cool, but need actual test runs through the game for balancing, etc.

There are a metric fuck ton of new items, I like most of them. Community needs to comb through that massive list and decide what they like or don't. Honestly my favorite change thus far is the rare items. Rares are really sic.

kramuti wrote:
Is his absence from this permanent? Last I knew, it seemed it was just set down due to life bs.


naw he moved to the other side of the planet for work, he said he'd be around once he's settled in. Ao2005 has his email, we can hit him up if need be.

kramuti wrote:
What vbc_jbb pointed out is something that should be considered by those that are willing to do it. HU has only really been put into other community's hands by a few of us. Several modern sites could be used to try to get new players. I don't know how successful it would be, or if those players would actually be a boon, but it's at least worth some serious thought and effort. I assume others think (as i do atm) that if it is advertised...it should probably not be 'come to a 3 month old ladder and play with us'.


Absolutely! I actually sent Terry a PM asking him ideas for places I could advertise HU, I never heard back from him. Before soulmancer (the boss) sent my ass packing, I was actually working toward making some youtube videos to post on forums to attract new players, I just have no idea where to start. I am of the Teamliquid flock, I'm here because of the thread Corr made years ago, and I bump that thread every time a ladder reset happens, which gets a couple noobs every time. I would love to do this across a few other sites. IDEAS PLZ

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:31 pm 
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I can comb through and look at the items if I can find a list.

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:42 pm 
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Patch notes:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7406

Item list:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7407

Few screenshots of how new items turned out:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7504

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:38 pm 
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So much DR%...

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
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I don't think most changes listed in the 1.4 patch are anything good for keeping this mod alive. I stopped playing this mod a few weeks after picking it back up because it's just boring. HU has been the same mod for 7+ years or so, just with a different wrapping and bow on it.

Balancing skills or adding a couple new RWs or uniques here and there doesn't keep people here. This mod needs something fresh. I started playing in 1.21z, and the only thing that has really changed is an added boss (Soulmancer) that has no dungeon or anything. Yea there have been some build improvements or nerfs, but that's not interesting at all. This mod needs:

- Skill overhaul/changes. Something like vengeance is a good idea, but it needs to be expanded to a lot of other skills, especially ones with repetitive mechanics. An example here is the sorceress. The inferno/firewall/blaze sorc is the same mechanic 3 times... there's no variety. Or look at static vs nova... the same skill twice with varying damages/ranges. This is a huge undertaking obviously and would need quite a bit of work, but I believe this is the real key to bringing back all of the former players and attracting new ones. Introducing completely new skills and builds to replace overused current ones would change the game drastically.

- Content additions/changes. There are a lot of unused areas and caves in all of the acts that could benefit from a tiny sidequest. Add sub bosses to these with a tiny reward or guaranteed item drop. Make certain side quests with level restrictions for little character buffs (example: beat coldcrow in normal at character level 6 or less for a potion that gives 3 stat points). I think end game also needs more stuff to do. The other real switch is probably a boss overhaul. Switch up skills of all the bosses and add some depth to act boss fights with environment changes or completely new skills.

- Gameplay change. I can't think of too much off the top of my head, but one major thing I'd like to see is a removal of rejuvenation potions combined with a buff to healing/mana potions that provide a % of life over a certain time frame (similar to the mod Median). Too many fights are won or lost with just rejuvenation potions rather than a good team or some strategic playing.

-Character building changes. I think the main thing here is to make the stat point and skill point allocation more meaningful by introducing better synergies or uses of stats. Would be a lot cooler to see possibilities of characters like a dual element sorceress because the synergies were revamped and not as required (looking at something like a fire or wind druid, or frost nova sorc... so many synergies and skill points required for one skill that ends up making the character very one dimensional). I believe giving stats more meaningful uses also adds to better character depth and more variety. Ex: giving strength a DR% boost (1% DR for every 25 base strength?) or dext an attack speed/faster cast rate boost.

- Update the documentation. This is such an underlooked part of any mod but is always very important. The outdated information sucks.

By no means is any of this easy or quick to implement, and if I knew how to mod/had the time, I'd love to volunteer. However, I think the key to reviving the mod is bringing back the player base that has played this before. And to do that, you need to give that player base something new they havent seen, not tweaks or minor changes to the same core game theyve played patch after patch after patch.


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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:17 pm 
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Sup al!

You don't think fixing the physical resists issues is a good thing for keeping the mod alive? Maybe I'm misinterpreting your first sentence, but I personally think the changes in 1.4 are awesome so far.

To all your other points, I do agree. That's a huge amount of work to do all those things, I'm not sure the community would ever be capable of putting out such a patch, there would be too many people with conflicting opinions, like taking out rejuv pots for example. Pious has talked about this before, but people will probably rage about every little thing, discouraging the people sacrificing their free time to do the work. Even though it fell on its face in the past, I think the best way to put out a patch of this magnitude is to put together a dev team that just makes all the decisions and gets it done.

Regarding new content- this is the only area I can really help in, and I got a ton of ideas. I'll make another thread for it.

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:25 pm 
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I think more of what he is saying, is that it will not fix the issue of server population getting smaller shortly after patches.

(at some level i agree with angel about this time...1.4 should ideally been either completed or never mentioned until it was near completion...the latter in my view...but mrawskrad was on a tear, and you never let that kinda thing go to waste).

The last patch though it does have issues, was actually a big damn deal behind the hood. I am not quite sure people realize what brevan did for future modding. But none of this solves the issues at hand directly.

I agree with a lot of what folks are saying. And at least those that are saying it realize it isn't a simple request...and that they are willing (at least in some cases so as not to commit anyone) to put their money with their mouth is.

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:02 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
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slappyNuts wrote:
Sup al!

You don't think fixing the physical resists issues is a good thing for keeping the mod alive? Maybe I'm misinterpreting your first sentence, but I personally think the changes in 1.4 are awesome so far. - I'm not saying the changes aren't good... a lot of them are good balance tweaks. But that's all they really are, just balancing. It doesn't really change the game in any way that you or I or any other long time player will approach the game and leave after a few weeks. The item changes don't do it for me either... we already have plenty of items (and maybe too many, there are so many unused uniques/sets/runewords/crafting options as is... adding more items to the game just makes it worse).

To all your other points, I do agree. That's a huge amount of work to do all those things, I'm not sure the community would ever be capable of putting out such a patch, there would be too many people with conflicting opinions, like taking out rejuv pots for example. Pious has talked about this before, but people will probably rage about every little thing, discouraging the people sacrificing their free time to do the work. Even though it fell on its face in the past, I think the best way to put out a patch of this magnitude is to put together a dev team that just makes all the decisions and gets it done. - This is the issue that we have. Imagine how different the game would be if all of the skills, synergies, and stat allocation was revamped? The game would be completely new just in that. People would want to try new characters, discover whats strong, what's unique. I just don't have that experience or time to put in the real effort that it would take, nor do most that are here now.

Regarding new content- this is the only area I can really help in, and I got a ton of ideas. I'll make another thread for it.


Hey Slap!

See my replies in bold

I think Median is a good example of a mod that has kept a strong player base over a long period of time. It is constantly changing in terms of skills, end game optional quests/bosses/dungeons, hoardes of new or vastly revamped items, etc. They don't make too many balance tweaks. We may not have the capacity for that all the time, but some progress towards changing a core part of HU would go a long way.


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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:58 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 523
I've been away for a while now, part of the reason was life got in the way. Another part were/are changes proposed in 1.4 it's got good points and a lot of things that make it seem bad.

I agree in part with boss phys res changes, but remember from 1.21z to 1.3a a fuckton of changes occurred all at once. Amp got nerfed literally into the ground, cb all but disappeared. DR, res, sorbs got blasted as well. I know a lot of people left after the untested patch. We never recovered after that.

Ironically I've heard one status that prompted the proposed 1.4 "aurastat overflow". Which is game crashing due to too many active auras, how did we get here? Simple, compare items between 1.21z and 1.3a and beyond. A ton of auras got added to items, both unique and rw. So the idea now is, reduce active aurastates by changing skills, rather than going back and removing several from items which never had them. It's that type of change that makes balancing more complicated than necessary.

Crafting is another of those areas where 1.3 and beyond went crazy. Prior to that, crafts were lackluster I will admit. In that you didn't get pierce and dmg% on the same item, it kept it in check to a point. Enter the new age, crafts in several cases are the end all be all of several builds. Ele rings and ammys give nice dmg boosts, with some good stats/res thrown in. There's a lot more, but you get the point.

Adding dr, res, sorbs back in. That's a good thing in small doses, not the sweeping changes I'm reading about. Although dr caps at 50% the ability to stack far beyond that will make things too easy again. Which is why some veterans decided to nerf them in the first place. It'll be far to easy in proposed form to stack both dr and sorbs making bosses too easy again.

Added items, good and bad. Some builds can use a good item, but then it'll be nerfed later cuz someone figures out a glitch and abuses it, like the change to marrows, which btw made a psn strike necro a bitch to play due to bone armor being so weak. As has been said, there are many, many under used items as it is, do we really need more?

Perhaps instead of trying to keep reinventing classes, chars and/or skills we'd be better served to add new content to unused areas. Revamping some existing areas, maybe with a new boss in a select few areas. Some areas are far to predictable and that means easy.

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:22 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:55 am
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Been awhile. Had some hopes for the latest d3 patches but all it left was more desire for d2 so I thought I'd peak in. May re-install everything for the umpteenth time. Really don't have as much time to game as I used to, but if the population returns I wouldn't mind hopping back on. Though I did just buy dark souls 2. Expect that to take most of my free hours.

~Slammedsc


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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:15 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:12 am
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Server is dead. Average 1-2 people online nowadays


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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:36 am
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Location: Phoenix
yeah the mod died only one guy left that plays every day and hes an admitted hacker lol. I been playing starsiege tribes a bit. Free fps that rocks ftw...........come play if u want its a fps with mods, they even have rpg mods which i may check out.

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:25 pm 
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pappy how you manage to play an fps is astounding to me lol <3

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:36 am
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Location: Phoenix
you should see it, its fuckin fun

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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:43 am
Posts: 68
so is anyone interested in trying to setup a team and revive this MOD?


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 Post subject: Re: where the fuck are u?
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
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Personally I don't care how "dead" this mod is as long as it is online. I play alone or with a friend sometimes and am not bothered by how many other people are playing. It's not like there's a RMAH to abuse :)


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