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 Post subject: Reset?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:03 pm
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Hey everyone!

Was wondering if there is a planned reset of the ladder or new patch any time soon? I stopped playing about 4 months ago. Seems like HU is most fun towards the start of the season climbing your way to the top relying on your skills rather than power leveling. After 3 months of play I was a bit bored as I got wealthy and had several high level chars.

Any reset in sight?

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:48 pm 

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:(

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:01 pm 
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some of us still need to do LoS ><

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Since PureRage has done quite a bit with levels and fixing some files, I am really wary of doing anything without knowing exactly what he has fiddled with. If people want to come up with a serious list of what they want added/changed, it will be left in his hands unless he says otherwise.

I will have about a week of free time after starting next weekend to work on something. There was a discussion awhile ago that had some ideas worth considering, but not a lot was brought up since then...then we would also need Duff's help to reset it all.

tldr, nothing definitive has been set.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:44 pm 

Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 7:53 pm
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Conversely, I'm deciding whether or not to play on realm, as I have no idea when it will be reset.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:24 pm 
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I wrote this in response to finding out the PureRage likely won't be able to do much, if anything, for awhile due to unforseen circumstances. This is not totally inclusive of all of my thoughts, nor all of the concerns brought up by others, but it should give a pretty good indication of them.

'This got long winded, but I figured that I would share my thoughts on the matter. Feel free to post this if you think it would help.

Then we need some organized effort to find out what exactly those of us that do still mod are willing to do, and what the community deems as 1) necessary and 2) a consensus of what they want.

There was a discussion on poison and I think at least you and I agreed that low end posion isn't an issue when melee is actually a lot easier in normal than poison...maybe at the extreme like Asteroth says, but I also walked with him for awhile at the end of norm. At pretty good, but nothing overwhelming, the poison mancer is extremely fragile. (I think I got one hit by Glasya blades in that party...was small with no strong life buffs. no oak and CtA BO from his pnb nec...which was damn deadly btw. :D ).

Normal was changed to get people used to the flavor by Terry. If the only complaint left is that totally twinked out you can pwn norm, then it is where it should be. If enough others disagree, then ok, I won't stand in the way of some small nerf to poison.

There has been no true discussion of how melee does in normal now. The wolf with HoW I built was an easier trip than a poison nec at the same cost in my opinion. Solod A1-3 except duriel. Diablo was done in a duo with maybe a rabies druid...we both damage him about the same. I used an ampdamage sword on switch and 10ish % cb on main. Solod ancients, dragon and then did baal with jayrox i think?

Overall I see getting fixes that I have listed in the buglist thread in tech support, maybe changing hydra to lesser skill point build (this was brought up quite awhile ago...dunno if people still want that or not), there was another one too that i forget, and item changes/additions like meditation on HWills and pally shield (several have noted this but it seemed somewhat contested). and that is about it.

Essentially. if people come up with an organized list I would be much more willing to something...like drrod and abominae and several others have done in the past.

Ultimately, we also still need Duff's and Terry's okay.'

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Ya I had alot of fun doing that run through with ya.. Psn zons were my main issue perhaps take the cloud off them.. And tweek the moonstone crafts they need to be capped some how like 72 - 99 or something like that..

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:28 am 
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There isn't enough people to keep resetting all the time.. What you get maybe 15 to 20 older players for around a month then it goes back to being slow again with partys.. We should figure out how to get more people first and fixing issues then maybe a reset..

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:49 pm 
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didn't you mention something in another thread about wanting to fix server issues due to the summer bringing an influx of players?

if we choose not to do this before the summer semester begins, then i doubt i will have the time to help until after the fall semester ends...aka the end of the year. food for thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:27 am 
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Ya..But there isn't a reason to reset a ladder though over a small patch..

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:55 am 
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I have had a few discussions with others that wouldn't make it quite so small. I have to grade final exams over the weekend, but I will try to post some ideas on some love for other builds, etc soon.

Also, you have pointed out a few items that you feel need tweeked. Are there others? Come up with a good list like drrod and abominae (and others i am surely forgetting) have done in the past, and I am willing to do some work on it...and you don't have to limit it to just items.

Like I have said previously, if folks give some organized wants/needs I am willing to do what I can over the next few weeks.

Off to grade.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:03 pm
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Asteroth wrote:
There isn't enough people to keep resetting all the time.. What you get maybe 15 to 20 older players for around a month then it goes back to being slow again with partys.. We should figure out how to get more people first and fixing issues then maybe a reset..


I think we should get a FB page to promote HU. Would be nice for trading and grouping as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:43 pm 

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Double posted. sry

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Last edited by Cory on Sat May 11, 2013 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:45 pm 

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Asteroth wrote:
Ya..But there isn't a reason to reset a ladder though over a small patch..


Well the reset is more for fun. You could even reset without a patch. I think a reset should be done at least once every 9 months or so. I got to the top fast, and then the game got a bit boring and I stopped playing.

I'm sure if we promoted HU a bit and announced a reset a few weeks ahead of time we could bring in a considerable amount of new players to the mod.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Before I start anything I am going to try to not have to redo a lot of work done by PureRage (cleaning up a lot of files that have been screwed up over time).

Hopefully I will hear something back soon. If not this still has to be done. There is no point in adding whipcream on a poopie. I have begun to compile suggestions given by several people over time, and will post these in the couple of days. (I really want to wait to see if I hear anything from Rage beforehand).

It will not be a definitive changelog, but it will hopefully give people something real to discuss and give me a real starting point to see how much time I have to allocate to this. My deadline for working on this is the end of May.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:35 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:43 am
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hey is there any chance for new content or are we talking balance tweaks?


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:10 pm 
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purerage had been working on new content, and i am trying to see what it would take to incorporate this. I do not know the status of it at this time. If that cannot be done, then it will be balance stuff and fixes.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:10 am 

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ok, thanks for the update


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:53 pm 
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Keep In mind to if Kevin has new content it will need to be beta tested for glitchs and other issues it may have..

On another note with items I will make a list within the next 2 to 3 days and post it up with there changes... 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 5:34 pm 
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I support a reset


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:46 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:03 pm
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Kramuti. I would make crafting stronger... It got to a point where Gems are useless really. I had 3 mules FILLED with moonstone and uber gems. I think crafting should have potential to be stronger than uniques if a person puts the time into it. One thing that is useless is the death craft. Not sure if I saw a single death craft last season. It adds IAS on all pieces but IAS isn't that critical. A zealer using a 0 speed 1 hand wep will max out speed using fanatacism with only 60% ias. A wolf druid and bear druid use IAS from weapon only, so that ias on equip is essentially doing nothing for them.

Crafting adds some originality to the game, otherwise everyone is all just using the same equipment and same builds.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:10 pm 
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I have no problems with making crafts stronger BUT there should be a cap on them .. No way should a norm char have rings that more or less give them plus 2 to there skills.. Example of this a zon ring with 8 % psn dmg ..The 8% psn dmg is basically the same as one skill point so do the math here if you have 2 of these on a char there really getting plus 4 to there skill base(ele) with just 2 rings.. This why crafts need to be capped..
Blood crafted rings were nerfed because getting 2xx plus life off of one ring is just over powered..Death crafts are not as bad as you think... There has to some kinda balance between the crafts and high lvl items..

As far as resetting every 9 months no way... First off we don't have a big enough community .. Second It takes hc players alot more time to get ready for areas in the game like Los etc plus they need a party to do so..
Perhaps we wouldn't need a reset if most of the people in sc would stop rushing everyone like nubs..All the rushing is what kills the game and needs to stop..Every season is the same thing one party gets to hell in sc then the rush train starts... Then you ask your self why does hc bust sc ballz so much there is your answer lol.. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 2:48 pm 
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Making crafts stronger in general is probably a bad idea. There have been several folks that would like to see death crafts altered, but no concrete ideas have been given...'they suck' isn't very helpful. I do basically agree that IAS on all death items is lackluster since few if any builds need much more ias than they get on weapon, or from a few other select items.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 12:11 am 

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Asteroth wrote:
All the rushing is what kills the game and needs to stop..
THIS! But the current system has to go already! There was a discussion about it before this season. The mentioned quest flags would be much better. But mostly it's people's mentality.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 8:05 am 

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To be fair a lot of the major rushing stopped when Hell chars couldn’t come back to normal/NM etc – this alone made a big impact.

If people want to rush so that a new char can play with friends or a team then leave them to it, not everyone wants to be rushed only a select few.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:20 am 

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Corley wrote:
To be fair a lot of the major rushing stopped when Hell chars couldn’t come back to normal/NM etc – this alone made a big impact.

If people want to rush so that a new char can play with friends or a team then leave them to it, not everyone wants to be rushed only a select few.


Well what a lot of people call "Rushing" we just call "helping".

I was the first to a5 Hell, and there would be others stuck on a boss they couldn't kill. So I'd simply help them kill the boss. After that they were on there own. It's more of a community effort. :)

If anyone wants to rush, who cares. To each his own. As long as you are having fun playing the game you want to, don't worry about what others are doing. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:23 am 

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Asteroth wrote:
I have no problems with making crafts stronger BUT there should be a cap on them .. No way should a norm char have rings that more or less give them plus 2 to there skills.. Example of this a zon ring with 8 % psn dmg ..The 8% psn dmg is basically the same as one skill point so do the math here if you have 2 of these on a char there really getting plus 4 to there skill base(ele) with just 2 rings.. This why crafts need to be capped..
Blood crafted rings were nerfed because getting 2xx plus life off of one ring is just over powered..Death crafts are not as bad as you think... There has to some kinda balance between the crafts and high lvl items..

As far as resetting every 9 months no way... First off we don't have a big enough community .. Second It takes hc players alot more time to get ready for areas in the game like Los etc plus they need a party to do so..
Perhaps we wouldn't need a reset if most of the people in sc would stop rushing everyone like nubs..All the rushing is what kills the game and needs to stop..Every season is the same thing one party gets to hell in sc then the rush train starts... Then you ask your self why does hc bust sc ballz so much there is your answer lol.. :lol:



Yeah I had rings for level 14 that gave 300 life and 292 life a few seasons ago. With BO and OAK it would add like 3,000 life lol.

Can there be level restrictions based on the type of craft? It's just rings/ammys you got to worry about, as the other crafts are based on item levels.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:08 pm 
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What some people call rushing is using bugged games to bring characters into norm that are in nm/hell.

or using a lvl 50-60 to kill norm andariel. I have yet to do act1 this season without this happening...I leave and solo the thing because it is so annoying. (ask a few others that have seen me vent about it on realms). Hell I did it with a sorc with a lvl 5-6 enchant and an angelics sword rather than having a lvl 50 kill her in 5 seconds.

On a more positve note, preliminary changelist for skills is done. Need to finish going through items.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:36 pm 

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ladder reset is coming soon?


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:38 pm 

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how about buffing the +damage from STR and DEX? would make people less likely to spam vitality


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:58 pm 

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can u increase durability anymore or is 100 the max?


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:15 pm 
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kramuti wrote:
Hell I did it with a sorc with a lvl 5-6 enchant and an angelics sword rather than having a lvl 50 kill her in 5 seconds.


all u need is 6 chipped diamonds and a witherstring!

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:16 pm 

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Any word on this? I'm craving some HU.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:44 pm 

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Any reset in the near future?

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:44 pm 

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stay tuned. possibly in the near future.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:09 pm 

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kramuti wrote:
Making crafts stronger in general is probably a bad idea. There have been several folks that would like to see death crafts altered, but no concrete ideas have been given...'they suck' isn't very helpful. I do basically agree that IAS on all death items is lackluster since few if any builds need much more ias than they get on weapon, or from a few other select items.


Crafts should most certainly be made stronger:
*Elemental rings/amulets need to incorporate magic pierce to cater to magical based builds
*Elemental armor pieces need a larger gap in the rolls(5-15 opposed to 8-10)
*Elemental 'torso' needs it's numbers and +skills overhauled to be more in line with being able to compete with common uniques.
*Death weapons need flat min/max to make up for the damage gap of not being able to incorporate ethereal into the process.
*Blood rings need strength brought back up. 7-8 str on a MS craft is ridiculous.

Most crafts are not even worth making anymore. Crafts should ideally make up a small, niche portion of endgame gear in some cases, and beat out most unique gear in most other cases.

Why does the caster belt not give +1 skills at perfect/SS and +2 at MS? You get lenymo at level 6.

Why would anyone craft an elemental torso when templars just stands infinitely more mighty above it? Make elemental torsos roll 1-3 skills and 8-16 pierce. The chances of it rolling perfect are pretty low meaning you're giving players a goal to work towards, and you're still losing all resists for only a slightly increase in power on a perfect item. You get to end game and there is nothing to work towards other than new characters. And the items that are 'end game' currently are so incredibly easy to acquire. Other than DHORN/DSCALE, the uniques in the game drop like candy when you can do azmo/belial runs in 3 minutes.

Also make cgrip and item worth finding again. ID'd it when I came back a month ago, looked at the stats and tossed it right back on the ground. Fucking terrible.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:41 pm 
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sup?


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:56 am 
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Soulmancer wrote:
sup?

hiya :)

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:59 pm 
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Sup Soulmancer. We have been looking at doing a patch. (Brevan and I did the file stuff...community basically did the rest). The work is essentially done, minus a file mishap. Am going to fix these and hopefully and send it up the chain in the near future...maybe a couple of weeks?

Do we have your formal ok to implement stuff, barring a final lookthrough by you of course?

There is a thread in suggestions that has most everything discussed that you have probably seen by now.

Edit:

Angel: You should probably go read the entire discussion tree over for the last several years. I'm not going to hash the reasons why crafts came to the state they have here. It's been done. I am not saying this in offence. I agree there are some things that could be better, but these will likely need to wait. The discussions for this patch were had in earnest some time ago, the compiling and rehashing was then done, the hard work is done, fixing booboos is all that is left. Crafts aren't worthless. They have just been toned down for a lot of reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:29 am 

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Soulmancer wrote:
sup?


Yo!


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 Post subject: Re: Reset? Some of us STILL need to los
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:15 pm 

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blah reset might be fun though.

And asteroth is right, everyone will come back for a month and then I will be all alone for 11 months having to solo shit cause there is no real teams.

The amazing part is u still have problems with rushers....why should we not rush when there are no teams.

I have joined a normal time with three chars so far this season and they all petered out about act three nm.

I joined a nm team by rushing a char to catch up twice, they petered out as soon as someone died at which point a few would become nm farmers and the rest would "do a slow" leveling up the guy who died over the coarse of a few weeks.

Long story short there is no endgame for someone if u miss the initial first teams.

Sorry for the book but thats how I feel about it. I say take out the anti-rush and let those who rush......rush and those who don't play the way they want.

Also someone should right a party script etc as this will not give anyone an unfair advantage.

Oh and one other thing , I have seen this on servers , how bout limiting messages in private and freinds list to like 6-10 messages a minute. Then the spam bots teeth will have been pulled. I have never sent ten messages in a minute....that comes out to a message every six seconds. No one messages there freinds list that much do they anymore?

Again, sorry for the long ass post, and thanks for reading it.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset? Some of us STILL need to los
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Pappy wrote:
I have never sent ten messages in a minute....


coming from mr motor-mouth himself! hahaha j/k i love you pappy

Pappy wrote:
Long story short there is no endgame for someone if u miss the initial first teams.


I disagree with this. For the new players, YES they will not be able to get to hell by themselves or even with a duo. They will need their party to not leave them behind or they'll get stuck until another party rolls around. All of these people should be wanting the reset even more. This means there will be a ton of veteran players and lots of parties to join up with. It increases their chances of getting to hell and getting a couple decent farmers to gear their new chars up with

Look at Kasia though, he didn't play with any of the initial reset teams, was very late starting this ladder, and he was still the first to take a crack at LoS (afaik).

If you started your season with the end game in mind you would be doing LoS too instead of remaking your spear zon a million times lol. Hence I have 1 char in hell, it's all I've had all season and it's all I've needed

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:09 pm 
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True, better to have one char comepletely done, than a thousand chars with no endgame equipment and charms. I have one endgame druid, I did many Baal-, Samhain- runs etc and I was in Land of Shadows, I have full set of unique charms and the best hp charms I've found. A few other chars I'm just testing with no rush. Checking, how to build and use these chars in many norm/nm/hell situations. Thats all.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:22 pm 
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the danger of having one char is if he dies, you're fucked lol

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:34 pm 

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when come the reset?

1-2-3 weeks ?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:40 pm 

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peca11 wrote:
when come the reset?

1-2-3 weeks ?

-> this

can we have an estimate plz :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:59 pm 
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kramuti is currently finishing things up. He estimated a couple weeks for completion, then we will need a testing phase. Testing phase length will vary based on how everything pans out. A month is probably an optimistic estimation, with 2 months being a conservative one

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:35 pm 

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slappyNuts wrote:
kramuti is currently finishing things up. He estimated a couple weeks for completion, then we will need a testing phase. Testing phase length will vary based on how everything pans out. A month is probably an optimistic estimation, with 2 months being a conservative one


you owe me a cracked sash dropped from hell baal for calling the reset timing slap!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:56 pm 
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lol shiiiiiiet you win del
come with me next baal run. Me and kasia smashed it out in 1 hour a few days ago

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:05 am 

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Looking forward to the reset guys, I am coming back for sure :). Looking forward to catching-up with everyone.

Sup Dusty, Delta, Pappy, and Ben :)

PS - I have 2 guys that will also start with me once the reset happens.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:32 am 

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Depending on where I am with outprocessing and school you know I will be around if I can get a solid date for the reset/testing. I'm sure my scratched/broken/shattered/tattered disk still works XD


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:37 am 

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Do we have an official timeframe in mind for this? Just wondering so I can clear my schedule and start playing :).


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:32 pm 

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there is no time frame. unless someone is willing to finish the patch then we have to wait for kramuti who is too busy to work on the patch at the moment.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:24 pm 

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Pious wrote:
there is no time frame. unless someone is willing to finish the patch then we have to wait for kramuti who is too busy to work on the patch at the moment.


Ohh ok - and is the patch actually going to fix a bunch of stuff or is it just minor fixes? I may be able to get some folks involved if they are minor changes. If it's something major like skill changes, areas, etc... then I can't probably help. I've done some coding myself and been playing with the SP version of NR MOD that PureRage released.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:41 pm 

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most all of what was discussed was skill balancing and item changes.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:12 pm 
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Hi people. Suffice it to say that shit happens, and lately, well I have been the living example. I'm not going to explain my life, but I have not forgotten about what I promised. It obviously is not the timeframe that any of us wanted (nor what I said it would be before). It will be finished once I get a moment's bloody peace, and finish some shit I have to for work for the end of the month (actually end of fiscal year).

I know that this shit has happened over numerous patches since Terry stepped down. I apologize that I am the culprit this time. It's okay to scapegoat the hell out of me. I probably would, too.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:36 pm 
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I still love you kramuti. Haters gonna hate

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:42 pm 

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yea life happens, and more suddenly that one can expect. if its rough though kramuti im sure we can get people to finish up the work you left on off. if brevan wants to finish up perhaps thats an option? i'm sure we can get some volunteers to finish up and set up a time frame for everyone.

we're already grateful that you've done as much as you have for this patch! you can always send me a pm and i can coordinate with folks to get the ball rolling.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:43 pm 
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I can help do the edits if you give me a list of things that need to be changed.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:22 am 

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I could do item changes if they're already made on a list somewhere and just need to be put in.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:00 am 

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I could also help with any minor skill changes or rebalancing - I think we got a good team here that can get this done pretty quickly and we can all start fresh again. I was able to recruit another 4 guys from my DOTA group so now we have a total of 6 that would start playing. We would all be HC players as well :).

Let me know if I could help in any way.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:23 pm 

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I would just really like an ETA on this - I've got some friends who are looking to come back after a reset. I hope some balance changes are being done, such as something to make Paladins better at taking damage. "I hope I block" is not good for tanking, and since armor doesn't reduce damage like in current games, something else needs to be done to make it so you can build tanky if you want, but won't unbalance them offensively. Something like Defensive Auras all give a synergy of 1% increased life and 10% FHR per hard point as long as a Defensive Aura is active.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:10 pm 
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paladins are amazing tanks...

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Yeah free 2 frame block/huge def bonus/res auras/smite DR. Paladins are already top tier tanks and when you add in BO and/or oak they just dont die. They don't need buffs.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:26 pm 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
Yeah free 2 frame block/huge def bonus/res auras/smite DR. Paladins are already top tier tanks and when you add in BO and/or oak they just dont die. They don't need buffs.


I second this when the last time I played one...

Let's not forget why this topic was started - so we can get a reset :) - let's get back on track on getting this thing done.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:20 pm 
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I have redone a lot of what I lost over the weekend. I will either have the rest done by Friday night or give things to Pious, with things in order, to be finished as quickly as possible. The only file that looked be be borked was skills.txt. This does need to be affirmed in absolution.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:06 am 

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That is great news kramuti :)! We are all excited for the reset and a fresh new start.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:12 pm 

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any early info on balance changes you can post? :P


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:20 pm 
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kramuti wrote:
The only file that looked be be borked was skills.txt.
I don't mind editing skills.txt. It's likely that I'll need all of the files you sent me a few months ago, but mainly skilldesc.txt (my changes were made using an incorrect skills.txt for reference, so referencing errors are expected) and skills.txt. I still have the document I sent to you that included descriptions of my changes, so I should be able to finish by Friday if I receive things by tomorrow morning.

With regards to item changes, if you want to delegate that to someone else, then you are welcome to include that program I sent you that does some spell-checking of mod properties, just keep in mind it needs a modified Properties.txt like the one I gave you.

Ensley03 wrote:
any early info on balance changes you can post? :P
For skill changes, and quite a few item changes, you can review this thread:
Organized suggestion feedback/start of changelog


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:27 am 
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I've done virtually everything that in your changelist that had involved skills.txt. I have not gotten to implementing the changes to how equations are passed through the aurastatcalc fields, etc. if I messed with a particular line, say amplify damage changes then I appropriately changed the aurastatcalc fields etc. I then redid that list the other day...

The item changes I believe are done. I finished those quite awhile ago. I have also added in the act5 hireling changes, and fixed a few errors in .tbl files.

At this point, I doubt that I will be able to get to do a whole lot before Friday comes around. There are a handful of other small things that I have made notes on in the skill changes that should be considered by folks before they are implemented in my view.

Once I make a consolidated list of all the big and small things that are left to tidy up, I will send links to Pious and Brevan.

OH WE CAN'T FORGET TO TAKE THE CHEST OUT OF THE NEW MAGGOT LAIR. I don't currently have the tools installed to do this. It's quick if you know what you are doing...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:26 pm 

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Sounds like good progress. I bet we can get this thing wrapped up quick.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:15 pm 

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Are no skills being changed other than the FoH pally nerf? Also melee sure seems like it could use a str/dex damage bonus boost, and crafting should be improved, particularly at the elite level. IMO a crafted elite should always have the *potential* to be a great, end-game item, though as unlikely as it may be. Currently, most elite items are not worth crafting, and the ones that are usually aren't exactly godmode.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:47 am 

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Melees would be fine if gores had like, ctc level 15 amp and CB was buffed 1% in all armor slots, 2/4% on weapons.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:50 am 
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Discussions such as these were for months ago not right as things are trying to be finished. And foh is not the only skill being tweaked.

Having amp values that high makes things stupidly easy for melee for nearly the entirety of the game. I solo'd most of normal and nightmare with a fury mutt. NM duriel and meph were a joke with gores the way they are now. Hell is not so simple. Thank goodness.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:57 am 

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kramuti wrote:
Discussions such as these were for months ago not right as things are trying to be finished.


Couldn't agree more...


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:30 am 
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Gore Riders are enough for hell Andy, Duriel, Mephisto, all prime evils, Castle of Destruction and Baal minions. All you need is good melee build.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:38 am 
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kramuti wrote:
I have also added in the act5 hireling changes


My brothers, at long last we stand reunited. The infernal gate has been
prepared. The time of our final victory is at hand. May the way to Hell
be opened!

And the mercenary that was once annoying shall rise anew. Wrapped in the
guise of beast shall he walk amongst the innocent, and fangs shall consume
they that dwell upon the earth. The skies shall rain dogs, the seas will
become as bears, the righteous shall fall before the wicked, and all creation
shall tremble before the act 5 mercenary!

The gate stands ready. And now, my young mercenary, the time has come for
you to assume your true form. Arise Hoku, Lord of Mercenaries!

You are the harbinger of our return, Hoku. Send forth your terror into hell!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:54 am 

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Can't wait!!! Getting pumped up for this reset :)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:27 pm 

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Quote:
Gore Riders are enough for hell Andy, Duriel, Mephisto, all prime evils, Castle of Destruction and Baal minions. All you need is good melee build.


LOL even completed level 99s can't get through half the shit in the game with gore amp.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:10 am 
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Angel wrote:
Quote:
Gore Riders are enough for hell Andy, Duriel, Mephisto, all prime evils, Castle of Destruction and Baal minions. All you need is good melee build.


LOL even completed level 99s can't get through half the shit in the game with gore amp.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj4hD6d7Ipo

Things in a4 and a5 (except Diablo, Baal, Belial, Azmodan, Samhain and Darkness) you can smash like a mad, with Gore's.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:23 am 
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I get an error when trying to watch that. Not sure if it is me or not. Don't really have time to troubleshoot..

ps going through and making last pass for the things that I have time to change. Then will get it all changes done/need to be done in an ordered list . Brevan sent me a pm indicating he will not be free until Sunday to make finish the work on skills.txt.

It's coming!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:31 am 

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Quote:
except Diablo, Baal, Belial, Azmodan, Samhain and Darkness

isn't they only one who matter, not the common trash?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:39 am 
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So we want one, easily obtained item, to allow you to solo everything?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:12 am 
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kramuti wrote:
I get an error when trying to watch that. Not sure if it is me or not.

Very fresh movie, maybe youtube needs some time to make it available.
Hommit wrote:
Quote:
except Diablo, Baal, Belial, Azmodan, Samhain and Darkness

isn't they only one who matter, not the common trash?

No, endgame bosses should be harder than others.

Why Hell Unleashed Mod has increased difficulty level? To be challenging, for teamplay. When someone likes easy shit and playing solo with no thinking, should go to standard Diablo 2 battle net. In my opinion: don't increase phys melee possibilities. Just reduce passive pierce in caster's gear. Why casters have that damn high dps? Nothing special, when they have for example -100% elemental pierce. Phys characters haven't it, but they are enough good to do almost everything with just Gore Riders, sometimes it's hard, but why not?. They're really need amp necro partner at the hardest battles only, but with that partner they can have higher dps than all caster builds.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:39 am 
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I think the balance is fine enough as it is. I saw your video, too. It really isnt fair to put a lvl 100 maxed out character vs meph with BO bitch BO as well. That isn't really a solo kill.

If you want to talk about balance test bosses with characters of an appropriate clvl and gear level for the content you want to test. And none of this BO bitch crap either. I know everyone in HC runs one, but that is not how the game was meant to be played. (Soulmancer never balanced for HC)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:55 am 
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You're right, but it's a test video, and you can see, low lvl item amp works quite good for a1-a3 boss fights and everywhere around from a1- a5. On the other side, BO barb is just a part of the game, everyone can use it legit in solo battle. And probably any untwinked char, especially melee, isn't able to solo bosses. First wave = teamplay.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:16 pm 

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it is a shame that bo changes aren't a part of the patch. the only real purpose barbs serve anymore is for bo in town.

at this point though changes are out of the question. once the finishing touches are put on the patch then we can reset shortly after.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Please read this the post about Windforce located on pg 13 here.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6546&p=53811#p53811.

Nobody plays barbs because they don't like bald, downie, crying, pale, monkies. It's hard to love them.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:14 pm 
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kramuti wrote:
Nobody plays barbs because they don't like bald, downie, crying, pale, monkies. It's hard to love them.


I enjoy playing barbs. I guess I'm alone. :(

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:24 pm 
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Mrawskrad wrote:
I enjoy playing barbs. I guess I'm alone. :(


I forgot to say that I am a nobody, too.

PS sending links to Brevan and Pious in a minute.

Edit: SENT!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:55 pm 

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So for the video on the meph 'solo'. You didn't solo it, I'm sure that's a MAX BO barb who buffed the fuck out of you.

Secondly, you're doing less damage than a poison facet disease spray proc.

Thirdly, you have max oak+max BO, and you're still drinking the purple drink like you're a crack fiend.


If you legitimately think melee are in a good place when casters can kill 15-20 mephistos in the time it takes you to kill one, without ever having to use a juv, your mind is just fucked.

Max amp and you'd be able to deal a much more proportionate amount of damage to remain closer(but still not matching) caster DPS. Which in and of itself is fucked, since melees can't clear mobs for shit while casters can, once again they get the best of both worlds. And on top of it, casters can sit in perma bone prison and literally never have to use a potion, melees even with max amp are downing them by the belt full.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:05 pm 
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Idk man, my barb can kill meph solo with less than a belt of pots and he doesnt even have close to maxed out gear. If i run my necro to cast maxed amp for my barb then i can tape my mouse button down and destroy everything that isnt PI, no pots needed.

When i play casters I wish I was playing a melee because then I wouldn't need so many potions all the time.

Also its a team game. Melee tank and dmg and casters dmg.

Also, you shouldnt be balancing off of endgame caster stats. Endgame chars are supposed to be OP.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:14 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
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Post a video.

I also find it funny that you say it's a team game, but bone prison which isn't rare/hard to find and is easy as fuck to do is tankier than any actual tank.

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Also, you shouldnt be balancing off of endgame caster stats. Endgame chars are supposed to be OP.


Endgame melees aren't shit, that's the point.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Angel wrote:
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Gore Riders are enough for hell Andy, Duriel, Mephisto, all prime evils, Castle of Destruction and Baal minions. All you need is good melee build.


LOL even completed level 99s can't get through half the shit in the game with gore amp.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Also bone prison on marrows is getting nerfed and its a lvl 80 item anyways. Are these casters soloing up to a4+ NM where these boots would drop?

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:02 pm 

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Decoy tanks about as well if you're intelligent enough to BO it.

I mean, have you played this game on a poison zon? Poison necro? Fire zon?


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Yes, but I dont use marrows..too cheesy. Have you played a melee? O_o

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:08 pm 

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I main a melee.

You literally do zero damage to act 1 bosses without the amp proc, act 1-2 with gore proc is decent damage. But once you get to the later parts of 3 you simply don't swing very hard. You can muddle through the game if you collect enough rejuvs, but honestly, why bother when you could play a caster.

Cheesy? It's simple strategy. It's like saying gore riders are cheesy because it gives ctc necro skills.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:20 pm 
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Might as well add back oskill inferno and arctic blast because it's not cheesy, its just strategy!!!

Anyways seems like you just want to complain, so I'm finished here. I think most people agree melee are well enough. Maybe just work on how you build them? Idk man. GL with reset.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:59 pm 

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I hardly think complain is the word, just pointing out obvious, blatant gaps in balance that utterly ruin the game.

Ever since they fucked around with the melees way back when the game has turned into a caster-haven.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:46 am 
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Angel wrote:
So for the video on the meph 'solo'. You didn't solo it, I'm sure that's a MAX BO barb who buffed the fuck out of you.

Secondly, you're doing less damage than a poison facet disease spray proc.

Thirdly, you have max oak+max BO, and you're still drinking the purple drink like you're a crack fiend.

If you legitimately think melee are in a good place when casters can kill 15-20 mephistos in the time it takes you to kill one, without ever having to use a juv, your mind is just fucked.


This isn't max BO barb. HP increased from 25 to 29k makes really big difference?
Ofcourse, im doing crap dmg with amp from Gore Riders, when Mephisto has much higher phys resistance than Andariel or Duriel, and life leech efficiency is reduced to almost nothing. A half of juvs I had, I used, when I was waiting for amp. With amp neco partner I'm not using any juvs, only life leech, and my merc can survive. You can see it on my other movie, it's caster speed fight, and my char is far to be perfect. Paladin with shield and sorb aura can tank bosses a way better than me, cause im 2-hander with no block and no sorbs. Pally with BO only, can stay in fire and tank hell Diablo. But see the champs, Mythia, and imagine other small bosses in a4 and a5. With ctc amp they're dying like a stupid mobs. It's not enough? You really must solo all shit, all act bosses in 30 sec? This is HU?

Soloing bosses MUST be challenging in this mod. When casters are able to solo bosses with no juvs, in 30 seconds, something is unballanced! This is Hell Unleashed or Hell Pissed? Don't increase ctc amp values in gear. Reduce elemental passive pierce... People should thinking and cooperating. I know two places for "easy solo players" - standard Diablo2 battlenet and Diablo3.

I have an idea. When phys melee is usable with amp necro, make casters usable with lower resist necro. Will be fair. Solo will be hard for everyone. Teamplay is always easy.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:41 am 

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Quote:
Soloing bosses MUST be challenging in this mod.


Except it isn't difficult at all for the vast majority of casters.

It's only difficult/neigh impossible(later difficulties) for melees because the stats and resists are skewed to the point where you -have- to have max amp to even try to win.

I doubt it's possible, but if you could gem physical pierce it would solve a lot of problems.

Another issue with 'requiring' max amp/LR characters is necromancers have very few paths they can go down. You essentially have bone/poison/summon, and in general they're not all that much fun to play, especially when you're reduced to a curse-bot in virtually all fights later on.

You have a barb with max BO because it's nice to have more HP, but it's not mandatory. Things shouldn't be mandatory.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:29 pm 

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Honestly my biggest gripe is I don't think any mobs should ever be permanently immune to something. I'm not sure why a cold resistant champion who happens to be Cold Enchanted has 300% cold resist and cannot be dropped even with Conviction and LR combined.

Pierce should be much more rare and severely reduced (1-3% per item max) and a basic herp derp champion monster should never have more than 99% resistance. Certain super uniques should have something like 150% resist, which could then be broken by either Conviction or LR. If you're on a team that has both, good for you, because both of those classes are largely just debuff bots, which means your team has at least 3 people, and should be rewarded by being able to occasionally snowball certain bosses.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:33 pm 
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Ensley03 wrote:
I don't think any mobs should ever be permanently immune to something


I disagree. I love running into triple immunes. Immunities are the only thing keeping HU from feeling like battlenet where all you need is life tap and every melee can put a rock on their right click and afk every boss in the game

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:03 pm 

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It's hard to nerf elemental piece because the sheer and utter difference in strengths of the elements.

Poison pierce should be nerfed by something like 40%.
Fire piece should be nerfed by 30%.
The rest can stay the same with the exception of magic, which needs to be normalized with the other elements AND given a proper pierce slot via elemental crafting.

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I disagree. I love running into triple immunes. Immunities are the only thing keeping HU from feeling like battlenet where all you need is life tap and every melee can put a rock on their right click and afk every boss in the game


All of the act bosses are immune to physical without amp, 4+5 are still basically immune without a maxed amp.

Random modifiers on champions/special bosses aside, I don't think bosses should be programmed to be immune unless you have a bitch necro following you around.

All you do by buffing melee and removing their dependence on amp is add flavor to the game, flavor that hasn't been around in what, 3-5 patches now? Even if it turns out to be too strong, I'd rather have too strong melees then melees who aren't viable circa now. Even when IK barbs could solo the entire game, I still had fun playing the game. Finding myself having less and less fun always having to roll the necro+dual caster combo.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:02 pm 

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So, can we get an ETA on that reset? We've been waiting only for this to start again.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Oxygen wrote:
So, can we get an ETA on that reset? We've been waiting only for this to start again.


Holy hell, Oxy. its been so long, I hope you remember me :)

Reset very very soon!

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Final changes should be done by Friday. Brevan and Pious look like they have finished a lot of work, and done testing. Mrawskrad's fix list from PureRage need to be added. Some of it is already done I believe. The rest is straightforward.

There should probably still be a (very) short testing phase before a new ladder in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:10 pm 

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i dont believe a realm-based testing phase is required. i read through the changelist and went through each change on udietoo character editor, and made sure that they were functioning properly in-game. the ones that i had some issues with i sent a changelist to brevan, which he double-checked and fixed.

assuming nothing else was changed other than what was listed in the changelog then we should be ok. i only tested what was listed in the changelog, so if anything was changed that wasn't listed there then we could have bugs.

if you need more testing than that then perhaps we can get a few individuals to do a quick run-thru as i did just to double-check. this would be a great deal more efficient than another month or two of prepatch.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:47 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:22 pm
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Pious wrote:
this would be a great deal more efficient than another month or two of prepatch.


Completely agree. Bunch of people standing by and ready to roll :).

Thanks for the update Kram and Pious.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
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mrawk and brevan have spent a good part of today checking and testing the changes once more. it certainly appears as though the product is now finished.

once kramuti compiles the patch we should be ready to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:56 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:23 am
Posts: 43
Any preliminary date you can say?

Also, can u plz post finished patchnotes?


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:23 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:22 pm
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Yea a date would be awesome so I can let the rest of the crew know - we should prepare to go to war :)!


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:44 am
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They said friday, apparently. Thanks for the update and the work.


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:16 pm 

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Oxygen wrote:
They said friday, apparently. Thanks for the update and the work.


Today is Friday...


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Benjamin wrote:
Oxygen wrote:
They said friday, apparently. Thanks for the update and the work.


Today is Friday...

Next Friday :)

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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:58 pm
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glad to hear a reset is close, cant wait to get back on HU.

any chance i can get a link for the list of changes? please and thanks!!


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 Post subject: Re: Reset?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:54 pm 
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aye, changes. what are they?

NM, I just saw the post.


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