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 Post subject: Barbs
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Currently they are the worst and only used as bo bitches unless its a cryer. every other melee class just does the job way better. so after talking on realm for awhile heres what i gathered.

changes that can help all barbs

Battle orders- give barbs 5%(life/mana) per level but the party bonus remains at 3% per level
Iron skin- gains 1% dr per 2 soft points capped at 10%, also can gain 1% per 2 hard points for a maximum 20% dr when maxed with enough + skills
Natural resists- gains 1% absorbs per 2 soft points capped at 10%, also can gain 1% per 2 hard points for a maximum 20% absorbs when maxed with enough + skills
Blade of Arreat- changed to a summon that follows you like oak, has a weaken effect when summoned. gains radius and life with skill levels(this will NOT stack with the weaken curse)
Bash- instead of it adding flat damage it could be made to do flat life leech.(this is meant to be more of a tanking skill to have on switch, just an option no meant to make you immortal)
Frenzy- remove dr% and replace with life leech
questions? thoughts?

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Last edited by dew on Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:16 pm 

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Seeing that barbs are only phys and magic, can we look at adding .25% cb per hard point to mastery for a max of 5%? give them a slight up on that realm

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:47 pm 
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Go back and look at what blue did, then reverse it.

That Blades of arreat idea sounds really neat. Lack of CB is the main prob, fixing cb back to near where it was will also get smiter's back in the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:54 pm 

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oZio wrote:
Go back and look at what blue did, then reverse it.

That Blades of arreat idea sounds really neat. Lack of CB is the main prob, fixing cb back to near where it was will also get smiter's back in the game.


This is not a post for smiters. its a post for barbs O_o...

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:04 pm 
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I personally view the barb as a viable class. I would be against making any changes to him until the boss physical resists have been "fixed".

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:55 pm 

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FuryCury wrote:
I personally view the barb as a viable class. I would be against making any changes to him until the boss physical resists have been "fixed".


is anyone working on that or have the ability to try and "fix" it? thats why i talked of CB

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:01 pm 
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Imperial wrote:
FuryCury wrote:
I personally view the barb as a viable class. I would be against making any changes to him until the boss physical resists have been "fixed".


is anyone working on that or have the ability to try and "fix" it? thats why i talked of CB


Yeah it's done, just waiting on some more feedback and duff to get back from what I understand.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:37 pm 

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Personally I question a few things.
dew wrote:
Currently they are the worst and only used as bo bitches unless its a cryer. every other melee class just does the job way better. so after talking on realm for awhile heres what i gathered.

changes that can help all barbs

Battle orders- give barbs 5%(life/mana) per level but the party bonus remains at 3% per level
Iron skin- gains 1% dr per 2 soft points capped at 10%, also can gain 1% per 2 hard points for a maximum 20% dr when maxed with enough + skills
Natural resists- gains 1% absorbs per 2 soft points capped at 10%, also can gain 1% per 2 hard points for a maximum 20% absorbs when maxed with enough + skills
Blade of Arreat- changed to a summon that follows you like oak, has a weaken effect when summoned. gains radius and life with skill levels(this will NOT stack with the weaken curse)
Bash- instead of it adding flat damage it could be made to do flat life leech.(this is meant to be more of a tanking skill to have on switch, just an option no meant to make you immortal)
Frenzy- remove dr% and replace with life leech
questions? thoughts?
A) already having perhaps the best life pool of all classes, except maybe maxed oak droods, do they really need more? Perhaps instead of a split skill bo, add 1-2% to inc stamina instead. B) Since there are so many sources of sorbs available, hitting the cap shouldn't be a huge issue, don't see the need on skills. All it does is changes the focus of a few pieces of gear. Last patch maxed SoB gave sorbs, and you got laughed at if you did, same with maxing HoW for the dmg, ar boosts and the DR. Don't know how many times I got asked why I didn't max oak on my biter. C)Like the change on BoA, however in current form it it not targeted but monsters, unless changed so adding life not beneficial unless you mean adding duration. D) Bash change is rather meh, removing dmg gives a leechable version of zerk with a cb/low dmg weapon. E) This one could be workable, as that was the original intent anyway back in the day.

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Last edited by kwikster on Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:40 pm 

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+1 furycury if barbs need love what about the other melee classes?? There's a huge problem if Barbs are in trouble...

maybe the PDR forumla needs re-worked for all acts. It might just to be too high.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:36 pm 
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Lee wrote:
+1 furycury if barbs need love what about the other melee classes?? There's a huge problem if Barbs are in trouble...

maybe the PDR forumla needs re-worked for all acts. It might just to be too high.


Putting cb back will help all melee classes. Soulmancer told them straight up that nerfing cb like they did was a bad idea. It needs to go back.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:16 pm 

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Sigh.. cb has nothing to do with anything. It is the boss resists/pdr formula that needs adjusted. Stop introducing other irrelevant variables that have nothing to do with the actual problem.

We need to understand where the PDR formula is at atm.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:57 am 
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Well, at least I am geting some feedback now. I am currrently trying to trouble shoot why the pdr calc is going wrong. Besides that only barb feedback I have received is big life bulb doesn't equal survivability.

On the blade idea the change would make it a summon that follows you and can die. not a set duration. I need feedback before I package new downloads. Only bug left to fix is pdr, so if there are other issues they won't be resolved with this patch if they aren't ade known.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:19 pm 

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kwikster wrote:
Personally I question a few things.
dew wrote:
Currently they are the worst and only used as bo bitches unless its a cryer. every other melee class just does the job way better. so after talking on realm for awhile heres what i gathered.

changes that can help all barbs

Battle orders- give barbs 5%(life/mana) per level but the party bonus remains at 3% per level
Iron skin- gains 1% dr per 2 soft points capped at 10%, also can gain 1% per 2 hard points for a maximum 20% dr when maxed with enough + skills
Natural resists- gains 1% absorbs per 2 soft points capped at 10%, also can gain 1% per 2 hard points for a maximum 20% absorbs when maxed with enough + skills
Blade of Arreat- changed to a summon that follows you like oak, has a weaken effect when summoned. gains radius and life with skill levels(this will NOT stack with the weaken curse)
Bash- instead of it adding flat damage it could be made to do flat life leech.(this is meant to be more of a tanking skill to have on switch, just an option no meant to make you immortal)
Frenzy- remove dr% and replace with life leech
questions? thoughts?
A) already having perhaps the best life pool of all classes, except maybe maxed oak droods, do they really need more? Perhaps instead of a split skill bo, add 1-2% to inc stamina instead. B) Since there are so many sources of sorbs available, hitting the cap shouldn't be a huge issue, don't see the need on skills. All it does is changes the focus of a few pieces of gear. Last patch maxed SoB gave sorbs, and you got laughed at if you did, same with maxing HoW for the dmg, ar boosts and the DR. Don't know how many times I got asked why I didn't max oak on my biter. C)Like the change on BoA, however in current form it it not targeted but monsters, unless changed so adding life not beneficial unless you mean adding duration. D) Bash change is rather meh, removing dmg gives a leechable version of zerk with a cb/low dmg weapon. E) This one could be workable, as that was the original intent anyway back in the day.


Maybe i build my barbs wrong, but... My barb i made on softcore last ladder at best was 16k life packed with lifer SC's, oak and bo'd the sin i made was 15.6 without oak. and i believe over 25k with oak. i do like the idea of the extra boost being on stanima, don't see a big reason why it would matter though. I think dins.sins.druids have alot larger life pools then barbs. Maybe its the gear though?

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:25 pm 
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boss damage formula first.

as for frenzy, lifeleech from DR% would be a nerf imo. You can get plenty LL with a frenzybarb. Nothing could hurt my last one until NM Baal minions. 80MDR/DR, 40% DR%. In hell it was more of a pain, due mainly to old melee changes. People use them mainly for bo bitches because of melee status in general.

Pious' titan barb didn't perform up to 'what should be expected' out of a 100k a swing due to trivial amounts of CB at the time. Changing much on barbs in general is dicey.

Blade of Arreat is yet to find a niche, but skills like howl are never used either for some odd reason. It's not as strong as in vanilla LoD, but nobody used it there either.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:16 pm 

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@Imp, the reason for swapping back to using Inc Stam is less complicated. One change and done. With making BO have 2 values (1 for baba, other for rest of toons) adds unnecessary complications.

@Kramuti, moving the dr from frenzy to iron skin is far from a nerf. However, to me it should be on hard points only, same as with HoW and SoB. I could even go along with a hard pointed sorb on Nat res for that matter.

Any changes to dmg skills or cb is useless until the pdr formula is corrected. I wish I could be on playing, but sadly I cannot atm. Still trying to get my meds regulated to control my absence seizures ( aka petit-mal a recent issue). Hoping to be back soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:08 pm 
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kramuti wrote:
People use them mainly for bo bitches because of melee status in general.


This. Barbarians don't have it much worse than any of the other melee classes, and way better than the shittier ones like Zealot.

I agree with Kwikster on the life increase, the life % increase should go to increased stamina. It used to be 5% per level and it was nerfed to 4% a few patches ago, would definitely like to see that reverted. Would also like to see critical strike on masteries scale well with soft points again.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:40 pm 

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kwikster wrote:
@Imp, the reason for swapping back to using Inc Stam is less complicated. One change and done. With making BO have 2 values (1 for baba, other for rest of toons) adds unnecessary complications.


i seee

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:22 pm 
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kwikster wrote:
...@Kramuti, moving the dr from frenzy to iron skin is far from a nerf. However, to me it should be on hard points only, same as with HoW and SoB. I could even go along with a hard pointed sorb on Nat res for that matter...


Frenzy barbs usually max frenzy, double swing, BO. Then they have to choose between a lot. Max mastery, double throw(been awhile, it adds to frenzy still right), increased stamina...most (on SC anway)will use the first and last.

Where are you going to get the points to choose ironskin instead?

The real thing frenzy barbs suffer from in late-middle game is that weapon choices are ass. This is probably a bit better now than when I used this character. Didn't get this toon to proper late game so I can't really comment on that.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:21 am 
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kramuti wrote:
kwikster wrote:
...@Kramuti, moving the dr from frenzy to iron skin is far from a nerf. However, to me it should be on hard points only, same as with HoW and SoB. I could even go along with a hard pointed sorb on Nat res for that matter...


Frenzy barbs usually max frenzy, double swing, BO. Then they have to choose between a lot. Max mastery, double throw(been awhile, it adds to frenzy still right), increased stamina...most (on SC anway)will use the first and last.

Where are you going to get the points to choose ironskin instead?
.


having variation to builds is cool IMO. I like to build a barb with no BO and max all dmg synergies and masteries, and the adverse: tank barbs with max bo, etc. Less cookie cutter builds is nice. What you said is correct, and if you see any frenzy barb running around you automatically can guess his build, and I think that's lame

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:05 am 
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I get your point slappy, but I don't think moving one attribute to another skill is going to do anything for variety. It just becomes the same cake with different frosting.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:43 pm 
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I was trying to say leave the DR% on frenzy

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:36 pm 

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kramuti wrote:

Frenzy barbs usually max frenzy, double swing, BO. Then they have to choose between a lot. Max mastery, double throw(been awhile, it adds to frenzy still right), increased stamina...most (on SC anway)will use the first and last.

Where are you going to get the points to choose ironskin instead?

The real thing frenzy barbs suffer from in late-middle game is that weapon choices are ass. This is probably a bit better now than when I used this character. Didn't get this toon to proper late game so I can't really comment on that.
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is basically, it needs to be an either or. Can't leave dr on frenzy and have dr on iron skin as well. Leaves too much room for abuse. Especially if the hard/soft progressions would be used. Perhaps if they were locked out, so points in frenzy negates the dr from IS, well then maybe. Looking at some of what I've read on zons, seems kinda buggy. I see the benefits of dr on frenzy of LL, and the same for dr on IS for all other barbs, just trying to show another point of view, and not crap in the oatmeal.

There is no debate on lack of decent/good frenzy weapons. Mid-game has always had some gearing issues, unless you go total crafts i.e. safety craft for the dr, blood craft rings for the LL, and so on. Using off the shelf gear got blasted 2 patches back, and never really recovered for the mid-range items.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Would DR on both really be that much of an issue with a cap in place? I don't think most if any builds use both.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:53 pm 
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oZio wrote:
Would DR on both really be that much of an issue with a cap in place? I don't think most if any builds use both.


Exactly my point

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:09 pm 
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@kwickster

its not buggy if i hadnt misplaced a parenthesis totally my fault

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:23 am 

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Melee have always been notorious for horrible early,mid game items and exceptionally strong end game items which include runewords as well.

A true melee hits the pinnacle of his ability in the end game and hardly anywhere near that early and mid game.. something most of us can agree on the damage difference between end game and through out is pretty substantial imo.

Something that should also be taken into consideration when factoring in how melee is doing so far.

No one has seen a fully decked out melee char yet, have they? Don't think anyone is really geared out on a melee.. maybe I'm wrong?

In any case.. I just think the PDR formula is either too strong or something isn't right.

I mean the boss DR hat got dropped and that's huge in itself.. so the only thing I can think of is that the PDR needs reduced.

amp shouldn't be the issue nor boss resists as again.. reiteration boss dr hat was dropped.

Best bet is target the PDR formula and re-work it a little.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:17 pm 

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slappyNuts wrote:
oZio wrote:
Would DR on both really be that much of an issue with a cap in place? I don't think most if any builds use both.


Exactly my point
Ok, lets use some logic here. Yes there is a dr cap of 50%, that's a given no debate there. Question: does ANYONE ever build a barb without one pointing the following Inc stam, Inc Speed, Ironskin, and Natural res? I highly doubt it. Sure, the idea is to "stack" dr above 50% so when amped you still have at least a degree of it, I get it and always have. Now, I would ask this: are there any other melee classes that could potentially get 2 sources of dr from skills? Nope, not a one. It seems, then that if baba were to get the suggested dr on IS, and left on frenzy, that that leaves other classes/builds to still need additional dr sources to achieve the same values. Take a fury mutt with a 2hander, no block, in the bosses face, and they get no such bonus. A conc/zerk baba, same deal. Would be like adding dr to zeal in a similar fashion, an extreme example,yes, but you get the idea. All this would do is give the frenzy barb free access to additional dr, that no one else does if it goes that way. Shit, the droods ONLY source of skill based dr is HoW, which must be cast, and last all of about 5 seconds in a boss fight. Pala skill based dr? Smite, and only while actively smiting.

So my suggestion here would be, if the DR is being implemented on IS, and also left on frenzy, make it hard point based. Lets not make one build have it easier to stack dr than all others.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:29 pm 
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kwikster wrote:
slappyNuts wrote:
oZio wrote:
Would DR on both really be that much of an issue with a cap in place? I don't think most if any builds use both.


Exactly my point
Ok, lets use some logic here. Yes there is a dr cap of 50%, that's a given no debate there. Question: does ANYONE ever build a barb without one pointing the following Inc stam, Inc Speed, Ironskin, and Natural res? I highly doubt it. Sure, the idea is to "stack" dr above 50% so when amped you still have at least a degree of it, I get it and always have. Now, I would ask this: are there any other melee classes that could potentially get 2 sources of dr from skills? Nope, not a one. It seems, then that if baba were to get the suggested dr on IS, and left on frenzy, that that leaves other classes/builds to still need additional dr sources to achieve the same values. Take a fury mutt with a 2hander, no block, in the bosses face, and they get no such bonus. A conc/zerk baba, same deal. Would be like adding dr to zeal in a similar fashion, an extreme example,yes, but you get the idea. All this would do is give the frenzy barb free access to additional dr, that no one else does if it goes that way. Shit, the droods ONLY source of skill based dr is HoW, which must be cast, and last all of about 5 seconds in a boss fight. Pala skill based dr? Smite, and only while actively smiting.

So my suggestion here would be, if the DR is being implemented on IS, and also left on frenzy, make it hard point based. Lets not make one build have it easier to stack dr than all others.


I was under the impression it was hardpoint. Yeah I agree it should be hardpoints.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:53 pm 

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kwikster wrote:
slappyNuts wrote:
oZio wrote:
Would DR on both really be that much of an issue with a cap in place? I don't think most if any builds use both.


Exactly my point
Ok, lets use some logic here. Yes there is a dr cap of 50%, that's a given no debate there. Question: does ANYONE ever build a barb without one pointing the following Inc stam, Inc Speed, Ironskin, and Natural res? I highly doubt it. Sure, the idea is to "stack" dr above 50% so when amped you still have at least a degree of it, I get it and always have. Now, I would ask this: are there any other melee classes that could potentially get 2 sources of dr from skills? Nope, not a one. It seems, then that if baba were to get the suggested dr on IS, and left on frenzy, that that leaves other classes/builds to still need additional dr sources to achieve the same values. Take a fury mutt with a 2hander, no block, in the bosses face, and they get no such bonus. A conc/zerk baba, same deal. Would be like adding dr to zeal in a similar fashion, an extreme example,yes, but you get the idea. All this would do is give the frenzy barb free access to additional dr, that no one else does if it goes that way. Shit, the droods ONLY source of skill based dr is HoW, which must be cast, and last all of about 5 seconds in a boss fight. Pala skill based dr? Smite, and only while actively smiting.

So my suggestion here would be, if the DR is being implemented on IS, and also left on frenzy, make it hard point based. Lets not make one build have it easier to stack dr than all others.


Instead of thinking every other melee needs a buff can we look at the over all utility of the characters before saying their melee needs a similar buff?

Dins... have alot of very useful builds. Especially with the up and coming changes to boss resist lee always talks about and return of cb
druids... they have many builds (trash and boss, with multiple elements)
Barbs... Slow trash builds and bo bitch builds... (could change with the up and coming boss and cb changes)

This is why people may feel barbs are "less useful" then other characters.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:16 pm 
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First off I would never leave dr on frenzy. Also the soft point cap of 10% is on the skill not the gobal cap. So to get the full bonuses you have to invest 10 points. If you look at what they have to max they don't have many spare points.

again just suggestions but barbs do have little variety. These are aimed at allowing variation. Wouldn't it be different if a dps barb didn't have to max both bo and inc stam. Or a tank barb maxing nat res/ironskin/inc stam/bo+ w/e

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:31 pm 
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It would be very nice to be able to not have to max bo and inc stam. I'm trying to go without the inc stam on my throw barb however with mediocre gear atm @ lvl 85 he only has 4.8k health after max BO which obviously is pretty low..

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:53 pm 
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oZio wrote:
It would be very nice to be able to not have to max bo and inc stam. I'm trying to go without the inc stam on my throw barb however with mediocre gear atm @ lvl 85 he only has 4.8k health after max BO which obviously is pretty low..


This is why I said increase the life bonus barbs get from bo and leave the party buff the same. So it can lead to variety and still be party friendly.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:32 pm 
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kwikster wrote:
Now, I would ask this: are there any other melee classes that could potentially get 2 sources of dr from skills?


no, but it's apples and oranges like Jay said (in some other thread). Sins get claw block and CI which is way more effective than 40% DR. What barb is going to max frenzy and iron skin with dr% anyways? Someone who wants to tank and apply CB%? Palli's can stack more DR% with a shield and have more effective CB application, so even still barbs will be out-shined. Also, 2H maul is huge dmg, so if they want more DR% they can use a shield.

Sure maybe other melee builds need some love too (like zerkers), but this is the Barbs need love thread so let's talk about how to make them more useful, shall we? I don't think many would argue that they aren't the most useless melee class at the moment, besides maybe a sorceress.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:45 pm 

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You guys are missing the point here. Just focus on fixing the PDR formula first and then worry about how ALL melees are performing and if there any issues with individual classes.. discuss, fix them then! I thought I was being lectured on putting BALANCE above all else..

Right now THERE are balance issues that need worked out. These things can be taken care of and discussed later.. but in any case on the topic of the discussion I agree strongly with Kwikster here. If Dr is added to Iron Skin it should be removed from Frenzy. Frenzy is already an exploitable skill as is: a barb can 20 pt it and that's what warcry barbs do. Use frenzy, then WC and kill things for a free 20% DR.

Now as WC barbs are probably one of the most highest life chars you can possibly have in the game due to massive skill based and mostly vita point build is allowing frenzy to be exploited on that character fair? Possibly considering their gear is caster based and there could be a large argument on this but the point is that adding DR to Frenzy was never intended to be used with other skills/builds but it can be.

Adding DR to Iron Skin is over kill if DR on Frenzy stays the same. It just allows for a free 40% DR on top of a really high defense rating.

And as far as Barbs needing love.. LMFAO. If you think Barbs need love then you've never played a zealerdin or never played a fury druid. The people here saying barbs need love are incompetent HU players, point blank period.

You can't justify one of the most powerful melee classes needing love. Sorry. Just can't do it. Feel free to argue how other melee classes out weigh the barbarian.

Throwing barbs and WC barbs both got major buffs this last patch.

Also trying to justify allocating more life to barbarians who already have two life % increasing skills and 4 HP per point in vita is pretty stupid too.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:11 pm 
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Has no one read the first post? It clearly says REMOVE dr% from frenzy. So why is everyones base argument that they would get 40% dr from skills?

Anyway expect and update without any changes that aren't in the bug list, since there are no agreements to be found here

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:12 pm 
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So Lee, whats your stance on boss resists?

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:13 pm 
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dew wrote:
Has no one read the first post? It clearly says REMOVE dr% from frenzy. So why is everyones base argument that they would get 40% dr from skills?

Anyway expect and update without any changes that aren't in the bug list, since there are no agreements to be found here


Did you see my latest in the bug thread? Pretty important.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:20 pm 

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oZio did you not read my post?

There is NOTHING wrong with boss resists or amp.

It's the PDR formula. I explained this already. The boss DR% Hat was dropped ON BOSSES! Thats a huge chunk of DR. Like 35-40? Not even sure.

It's the PDR formula that needs adjusted...

Adjust the PDR FORMULA - then work out other issues.

If any melee class needs love I'd say it's zealerdins. Probably one of the worst melee classes out there due to the gay zeal bug.

Everyone is failing to understand how the two variables mix, rofl. It's hilarious..


If amp was ~54% last patch with bosses current DR Hat and for assumption sake let's say the DR hat was 40% dr.

That means if there was no PDR formula and amp was say... 60% this patch.

That would equate to an ~100% amp essentially.

W/o the pdr formula that's just pure brutal rape.. the problem seems to be balancing out the PDR formula.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Lee wrote:
oZio did you not read my post?

There is NOTHING wrong with boss resists or amp.

It's the PDR formula. I explained this already. The boss DR% Hat was dropped ON BOSSES! Thats a huge chunk of DR. Like 35-40? Not even sure.

It's the PDR formula that needs adjusted...

Adjust the PDR FORMULA - then work out other issues.

If any melee class needs love I'd say it's zealerdins. Probably one of the worst melee classes out there due to the gay zeal bug.

Everyone is failing to understand how the two variables mix, rofl. It's hilarious..


If amp was ~54% last patch with bosses current DR Hat and for assumption sake let's say the DR hat was 40% dr.

That means if there was no PDR formula and amp was say... 60% this patch.

That would equate to an ~100% amp essentially.

W/o the pdr formula that's just pure brutal rape.. the problem seems to be balancing out the PDR formula.


I did, I was just trolling you to get you to rewrite what you have typed in about 8 posts. Sorry I have a sick sense of humor.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:26 pm 

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I caught that when I saw your avatar my friend oZio, not that you had a 'sick' sense of humor but that you were some weirdo. "iz a secret" just adds to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs need love
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:50 pm 
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dew wrote:
Has no one read the first post? It clearly says REMOVE dr% from frenzy. So why is everyones base argument that they would get 40% dr from skills?

Anyway expect and update without any changes that aren't in the bug list, since there are no agreements to be found here


I am fighting for it to stay on Frenzy as well for the sake of my no BO thrower build :)

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:03 pm 
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I wouldnt be against barbs getting 5% life per stamina point again. Since shifters get 6% form lycan now...it would only be fair.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:32 pm 
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I would prefer to keep the DR% on frenzy as well.

I do see Lee's point about the warcry barbs, but I don't think it is a huge deal. They don't heavily damage act bosses, so they are relagated to tanks in those fights. DR% for them is not a big deal to me.

Forcing frenzy barbs to use yet another skill to get DR% is harsh if we leave it as an option at all. They already can't max all the skills they want/need to. They must already choose more damage or more life/def/whatever.

If it is removed from frenzy, then it should be because it is either blatantly OP or UP and needs further changes to bring it up to snuff. I don't think either is really true. The issue with this build the it begins to blow chunks in the mid/latish game. Again, I never got my old one to all the really shiny stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Barbs
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:40 pm 

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Returning 5% to increased stamina sounds great.

A couple things I'd like to see:
-BO synergies returned to 5 seconds. I don't see the point behind the nerf to 3. It isn't that big of a nerf so the reasoning has me scratching my head a bit.
-Berserk buffed to a viable skill instead of a backup for physical immunes. Something like passive pierce on hard points and adjusting the breakpoints to a frame or two faster. Ditto for concentration but I believe dew had ideas for this himself.
-Removing the passive FBR/IBR penalties, or at the least lessening them.


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 Post subject: Re: Barbs
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:39 am 
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Best way to fix the barb in my mind is look at the 1.21z files and compare them to what Blue did then see where you are at with the current values in this beta... Plus I would do the same thing for amp curse sence its so F__ted up atm... Just my thoughts... 8-)

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