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 Post subject: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:24 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
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When I'm ready to make my final assessment of all acts and difficulties I will post it in entirety here. I will keep it as detailed as possible and get straight to the point.

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Last edited by Lee on Tue May 29, 2012 4:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:51 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:19 pm
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Location: Reno NV
Lee wrote:
Andy/Tobials boss resists are not accurate enough. This is the first time I've seen Act 1 normal become a complete joke. It felt as if I was playing b.net when I watched my mauler/mentalsin(27-28ish but still) destroy tobial/andy.- normal should not be like this throughout and if its there needs to be major adjusting.

Good God Lee have you ever had trouble with A1 normal before? Are you seriously surprised overgeared, overleveled, and two of the better untwinked builds are doing well versus NORMAL Andariel? Any ragtag team can stomp Andy untwinked with minimal effort. I'm seriously confused how you could possibly think lv27 characters that are pretty well twinked wouldn't be able to destroy tobi/andy.

Lee wrote:
We did andy a second time with a Teeth Nec, Summoner and a Light sorc. Slappynuts, and SytarisHC. It was an epic battle with a lot of micromanagement and we ENJOYED it. We had an amazing fight. We all almost died well not slappy but I and the other necro did. We had to do a pot run and it was awesome.

So sounds like you had no lifebuff and no dedicated tank. Looks like shitty party composition, I'm not surprised someone almost died.

Lee wrote:
As of now Melee is the dominant class by a long ways and anyone who disagrees feel free to speak now.

As of now you've still yet to play a melee start to finish untwinked so your opinion is shit on them anyway. You have no idea what it takes to tank and do damage to bosses untwinked. I mean your sitting here with a straight face trying to tell me melee is OP because you saw two characters, one which isn't even melee, that are twinked out the ass, using near maxed necro amp to kill tobi/duri fast(btw 80% of that damage was psyhammers, my maul is around 350). You must have missed the first time we killed Andy with shit gear, I assure you it was much harder.


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:55 am 
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Don't be poopin' on Lee's personal blog.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:55 am 
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Don't be poopin' on Lee's personal blog.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:26 pm 

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god i love these posts. I hope melee is DOMINANT, atleast then there will be alot more teams without a psn char O_O! and maybe pious will come running back if he hears this!

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:17 pm 

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lol ben always makes good points. We just did tried a2 and got raped. The whole point is keep the game balanced. Damn stop lashing out on me/arguing even if I'm wrong. The point is to make contributions as accurately as possible. Subbosses be gettin the rape as of now. Duriel was pretty tough we'll see how round 2 goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:21 pm 
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a maul druid killed NORMAL andarial so melee owns now?
we were 2 necros and a lightning sorc ofc our andy battle was epicly hard

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:31 pm 

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I forgot to add to the point that our battle was epic in the sense that it was fun as hell. I didn't mean it in any other way. The point was that difficulty = fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:34 pm 
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I would like to note that i have never failed to kill normal andy by level 25 solo in norm. I do this with most characters. some twinked, some not.

I did andy in a random full game with characters all around 21-23. Full spawn, took (totally guessing here) 7min or so. can't remember the whole team but i recall 2 nec (a skelemancer and maybe 1ptd golems? and me as a bone nec), healer pally, tank lookin barb, melee sin, poiszon. we were safe due to the healer for the most part. he and the barb tanked. healer still needed some reds from us to keep andy contained. barb had to draw back a bit at the end.

edit: oh, and from my experience melee has always been the easiest way to take out norm andy. it changed relatively quickly after that.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:27 pm 

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I was in that game. We had 2 skelemancers (myself being one), an auradin tanking, the amazon was actually a bowazon using the cold tree I believe. Don't remember the others. You (the bone nec), the auradin, and the bowazon contributed the most to that fight.


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 4:01 pm 
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doh. that's right the zon was a bowzon ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 10:24 am 

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It is hard pressed not to see melee as the most superior class by far thus far in normal. Again this is just in NORMAL. I will keep updating as my team progresses.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Lee wrote:
It is hard pressed not to see melee as the most superior class by far thus far in normal. Again this is just in NORMAL. I will keep updating as my team progresses.


I disagree. Zac's mentalsin is by far the strongest thing on HC IMO
motherfucker rapes hatestorm in under 60 seconds and clears the champs in like 3 blasts

EDIT: and I'm not saying his sin is OP either, he knows how to play it and geared her up nice. And if she sin aint OP then nothing else is so far

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 8:39 pm 

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Slappy its a 40 pt build.. of course it's going to rape in Normal and he COMPLETELY twinked it out. We just completed Normal and I'll post the update of our experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:44 pm 
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and the maul druid is... a how many point build? He's the only melee beast in HC atm so I'm assuming he's the one you're calling OP

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 1:43 pm 

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Go play Diablo 3.


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:19 pm 

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I will eventually JarL just not atm no real desire. How are you liking it thus far?

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 Post subject: poison dagger cloud
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:35 pm 

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I was playing with a poison necro, hes only lvl 19 but I noticed the cloud doesn't always hit the monster you "poke", especially if you are a squishy necro running around. I think the cloud should be a little bigger and last a few seconds longer so that when a mob is chasing you they can walk through and get poisoned while your running around trying not to get owned.


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:52 pm 

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Lee wrote:
I will eventually JarL just not atm no real desire. How are you liking it thus far?


I didn't think I would like it either and didn't buy it until yesterday. Hardcore Inferno was too enticing to pass on once I found out how difficult it is.


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 Post subject: Re: poison dagger cloud
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:25 am 

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Delta wrote:
I was playing with a poison necro, hes only lvl 19 but I noticed the cloud doesn't always hit the monster you "poke", especially if you are a squishy necro running around. I think the cloud should be a little bigger and last a few seconds longer so that when a mob is chasing you they can walk through and get poisoned while your running around trying not to get owned.


I have a poison nec offline @ nm baal who solo'ed all the way. I don't think they need any kind of buff.


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 Post subject: Re: poison dagger cloud
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:16 am 

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Corr wrote:
Delta wrote:
I was playing with a poison necro, hes only lvl 19 but I noticed the cloud doesn't always hit the monster you "poke", especially if you are a squishy necro running around. I think the cloud should be a little bigger and last a few seconds longer so that when a mob is chasing you they can walk through and get poisoned while your running around trying not to get owned.


I have a poison nec offline @ nm baal who solo'ed all the way. I don't think they need any kind of buff.


what do you mean by offline?


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 Post subject: Re: poison dagger cloud
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:08 pm 

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Delta wrote:
Corr wrote:
Delta wrote:
I was playing with a poison necro, hes only lvl 19 but I noticed the cloud doesn't always hit the monster you "poke", especially if you are a squishy necro running around. I think the cloud should be a little bigger and last a few seconds longer so that when a mob is chasing you they can walk through and get poisoned while your running around trying not to get owned.


I have a poison nec offline @ nm baal who solo'ed all the way. I don't think they need any kind of buff.


what do you mean by offline?


single player & tcp/ip


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:16 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:47 pm
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Whats the point of this thread? The guy makes snap judgements based on nothing but assumptions, watches skilled melee players do well and complains about it. All this and it sounds like he don't even play melee?

Leave the assessments on melee to the people who are playing melee maybe?

Does this patch require this guys approval btw? He seems to not know wtf he is talking about.

So far, I think the Mod plays really well. Solo melee are able to actually farm decently and improve equip for the upcoming stages of the game. Casters still destroy stuff, but its early days after all and they don't have the survival of their melee counterparts. No opinion on mentalsin as I haven't played with them before/after adjustments.
I wouldn't worry about normal being too easy. Remember there are new players who need to see/experience all parts of the game and be able to get past them to see the mods acts/bosses.
Difficulty can always go in steps rather than a curve. So norm is easy, then theres a difficulty step in NM and the curve can begin there? The problem I always found with HU was how easy acts 1-4 were in NM compared to normal. It always seemed normal and NM were around the same difficulty, if not a little easier in NM. Maybe it's just my imagination, but I always felt like I finished NM faster than I finished normal. Seems like it was always easy until NM baal whare the difficulty finally ramped up.

I stopped after killing the countess in NM last play, but it still felt kinda easy compared to normal?
Looking forward to the weekend to see how the rest of NM is. Are there others who play through doing the quests in order too btw? I'd recomend giving it a go if not as you spend less time farming the same thing and the game feels like it flows alot better.

Long time lurker, first time poster :)


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:45 pm 

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Who the fuck is this guy? First time poster and you actually have nerve to try to ride on a vet who has been playing this mod far far longer than you? Do you have any idea wtf you're talking about because clearly you don't. You don't even understand the basic contention of what is being accomplished here. Understand the BASIS and what the purpose of the assessment is in the first place. If you have not been following a long there have been MAJOR changes to the melee class and we as a community are in the process of 'balancing' these changes as to make sure that melee are not overwhelming powerful. Any time several variables are changed regarding a particular class there comes the potential for an overwhelming capability of being too strong or vica versa too weak. It takes a variety of tests/opinions and just a little logic to differ between whats too powerful and what isn't. Such as firedruids last patch. Who the fuck could disagree on their overwhelming capability of overpoweredness?

Just because I make a mistake or incorrect assessment at some point does not deviate from the purpose of what is trying to be accomplished in unity. Go fuck yourself. Read the first paragraph of my post and you'll notice how I stated that balancing is a unified effort and while my opinion may not always be correct.. whenever it is incorrect I seek to find out why and then recreate an improve perspective.

Not playing 'melee' has nothing to do with understanding the basics of balancing and what is considered over powered. You sound childish. You do not have to play a particular class just to see the power and capability of that class. It's like living in Soviet Russia at the time of Stalin and saying because you are not Stalin that you have no RIGHT to lay a validated opinion on his communistic ways. Understanding concepts does not always mean you have to experience it first hand. Understanding mechanics comes from experience but logic as well.

Again for a first time poster kiss ass. I tried to keep this thread flame free and you come a long as a first time poster and try to ruin it?

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:54 pm 

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:55 pm 

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So uh, when did norm diablo start shitting on 40+ pdr/mdr?

also how come 4,2 nado / 3k hurricane is pretty much only just capable of preventing him from healing on a 4 spawn.
and on that note - which order to skill windy if you're supposed to deal damage vs tougher bosses? is arctic any good before properly twinked+maxed?

wat.


Last edited by Corr on Tue May 29, 2012 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:57 pm 

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LMFAO!

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:37 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:47 pm
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Just because I don't post here makes me a noob? I've been playing for a long long time, longer than you actually. I remember when the realm was first ran by Jim, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about please. I haven't missed a reset since the mod was first released. Were you playing back before there actually was a realm and it was all TCP/IP?

Your last post had no information in it by the way, just a load on nonsense. Feel free to disagree with my points regarding normal difficulty, but at least have some information/constructive input instead of using 4 paragraphs to say "You don't understand balance".

BTW, i friend of mine has sat his driving test over 200 times. He started learning in the 80's. Should be be classed as a veteran driver just because he has been doing it for 25 years? What I'm trying to say is, you may think you have some power because you use these forums alot, but that means nothing. Show me something like comparisions, time scales, lets see some screenies/vids etc. I don't think you are the best person to listen to because you can't even stick to your own opinion, and give sloppy feedback.

I'd rather see assessments from drrod, kannli, abominae, FuryCury, nedder and others like that than this. At least they play melee classes consistently and can give a comparison over many patches on performance. By all means, give feedback on the builds you are playing and have experience with in the past, I'd love to hear feedback on the skelemancer if you have one or an avenger perhaps. I've only had the time to play a barb so far, but Vengeance was gonna be the next one to try.

Theres no need to get angry, just make more of an effort if you are taking this seriously. You seem to just like the sound of your own voice though and you want to be heard. Prove me wrong and sort your original post out, because for an "Assessment" its a complete joke, no information on builds used, no feedback on boss battles, just "yes this is ok".

I'll mark your assesment as an F at best...


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:15 pm 

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You're full of shit. You have been playing here longer than I and yet you post on a fake account name because you're too scared to show your true self? I did not call you a noob. I stated that you a were a first time poster and that you were trying to talk down to a veteran. You have not been playing longer than I. Don't bullshit or kid yourself. There is not a single person here who has played HU longer than I and Soulmancer himself can vouch for that. I've been playing back in the days of Squelch and the like way before the majority of people here. I was essentially here at THE beginning of HU and have played on and off since. If you were here as long as I and have not made a single post... ohhh the irony blossoms.

My last post has clear information in it. There is no non-sense in it. My last post makes a CLEAR CUT POINT. The effort of my 'assessment' was for a unified effort to ultimately balance melee. Is it going to be perfect? Is every opinion going to be accurate? NO. NO. It takes testing to confirm whether or not melee needs adjusting. That is the major FOCAL point of my 'assessment thread' the purpose was also to INCLUDE other peoples opinions. I made a clear thesis statement in that UNIFICATION is required in order to effectively balance the melee class.

You made a half-assed post assaulting me. And wtf are you talking about? I never once said you don't understand balance. You're like making up shit or something to try to sound like you're winning this argument. Please name or point to the reference of me asserting that you do not understand balance. Just like... wtf are you smoking dude? lol seriously.

Regarding my assessment ok I will state this. I did not put enough accurate information, time into it because I was lazy. I have a lot of personal shit going on atm and I will end up with a complete more accurate assessment later on. I have not seen anyone else contributing their opinions so far.

And while I don't care what you think or who you claim to be.. good luck getting actual respect with TWO posts on these forums both of which are directed at flaming me. No one cares what you think until you stop being a pussy and just identify who you actually are because we all know you are using a fake account name.

And this idea in your head that I think I have power because I use forums a lot just shows your ability to rant is marvelous. Like seriously... wtf are you babblbing about? When I have implied or stated that I think I have some sort of power on these forums.

If you're going to make a reply please make a coherent one and actually respond to what I'm saying and not make up random shit that I've never said or isn't true.

Again the purpose of the beta is for a unified assessment of a varied of opinions from everyone.

And if you really think i give a fuck enough about HU balance at this point in my life right now you're wrong. I'm not going to allocate all my time to ensure melee don't dominate or rape. I could careless. I have other shit going on in my life and rather I just want to play so don't expect some huge assessment in the future unless I feel like it. If melee do turn out way op and everyone wants it that way so be it.. I'm still going to play. I enjoy the game but I just don't have the time nor same form of care as of previously.

Btw don't bother replying back.. you'll get just get hammered again.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:25 pm 

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Btw instead of trying to talk shit and argue with me why don't you contribute your so called veteran experience so far on how melee are performing and do something productive. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:40 pm 

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My lvl 46 Frost Zealot has been performing fine so far. Slow going before I could actually get Holy Freeze. I've had no problems soloing anything I can leech off of. Andariel was a slight issue since I didn't have any decent gear at the time or skills I had invested in other than a couple points into zeal and blessed aim for the leech.

Duriel wasn't too bad I guess. Died a couple time but I didn't have max block and we didn't drop enough reds the first few rounds. Meph was better if you're counting by times killed. I could take quite a few hits before I had to back out while running cold res aura for the party and just standing there with holy shield on for max block.

Now, if conviction worked properly I could work better with the casters in the pubs I end up joining. Currently I'm just pumping it for synergies with freeze and vengeance. Vengeance is fantastic for clearing packs, but not great for tanking if you need to leech.

I have yet to actually be grouped with a healadin, and I doubt I'll see one in SC for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: poison dagger cloud
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:52 pm 

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Quote:
I have a poison nec offline @ nm baal who solo'ed all the way. I don't think they need any kind of buff.



Well I believe single player's difficulty is toned down so you can actually solo it. I wouldnt say its the exact same experience on the multiplayer version. But besides that, I dont think they need more damage, I was only referring to how the cloud's animation and size works and the length of time the cloud is there. I agree with you that it doesn't need more damage though.


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:59 pm 
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G-soos cryst Lee, get off your fucking high horse.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:04 pm 
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To the lurker: If you have consistently lurked, you should know Lee by now. It's not like he has been hiding under a rock as the last 3 patches were made once Terry was done modding. Not saying you haven't played it since yesteryear, but that is a bit different than name dropping and not seeing the shit that hit your windshield on the way in.

I have rarely tried to enter a real balance discussion around here because there was honestly a lot I didn't know, and still plenty that I don't. Knowing the mechanics of each and every class, and each build within a class is a shitton to consider. The underlying mechanics of such and such builds are often quite different. There is almost always something that can wtf bork the whole theoretical discusssion that only like 2 people fully understand, much less be willing to sit down and articulate it. (example, how many people could name the fastest attack rate possible in vanilla LoD? Which class, what gear...is it possible for xyz mods to drop...blah blah blah...its an assassin, 2fpa, you have to equip things in the right order for it to work, etc etc)

We all also should ulitmately remind ourselves that it's the maker's vision must be maintained, which I was not here to hear it from him as early as a lot of them. There is a lot of history here. The people that are vocal have pretty set ways they view things. We don't always agree. Sometimes it goes too far. Usually it works out ok, but sometimes it leads to smart people doing stupid things.

Glad to have you give some needed feedback, but for god's sake don't fuckin feed Lee....er trolls...i jest i jest hahafunnyfunny

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Abominae wrote:
G-soos cryst Lee, get off your fucking high horse.


thats hilarious ben said the exact words to him online earlier when he was spouting at wanting to stay #1

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:48 pm 

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Hardly on a high horse Zac. The 'lurker' clearly initiated a flamefest and because I reply back and put him in his place.. I'm the big bad buy now? lol. It's ridiculous how some of you guys manifest your opinions about me. Really? Was I the perpetrator? Because I created a thread to help balance the melee class and asked for a unified effort in doing so and some guy comes a long talking shit and because I reply back with a little hostility you guys jump to his back and label me as the bad guy.. hilarious.

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 Post subject: Re: poison dagger cloud
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:20 am 

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Delta wrote:
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I have a poison nec offline @ nm baal who solo'ed all the way. I don't think they need any kind of buff.



Well I believe single player's difficulty is toned down so you can actually solo it. I wouldnt say its the exact same experience on the multiplayer version. But besides that, I dont think they need more damage, I was only referring to how the cloud's animation and size works and the length of time the cloud is there. I agree with you that it doesn't need more damage though.


It's not the singleplayer-edition because there hasn't been one since 1.21 and that was ridiculously easy. I have managed with just survive just fine with a shitty CtA bo and rejuvs, no real defensive parts of my equipment.


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:43 am 

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Sorry if you took my post as flaming, but I expected a well layed out assessment of played classes so far, the topic name suggested it would be...

Not only that, but making snap judgements on the entire melee spectrum based on overleveled characters in act 1 normal when you haven't even played a melee isn't helping anything, infact if you hadn't been pulled up about it you could have been the cause of nerfing those classes when they didn't even need it.

Finally, I've never been vocal but I was an active poster when the forums were hosted on planetdiablo and they were focused on strategy, tactics, builds and the atmosphere was friendly. In recent years, this place has become all business like, with people tip toeing around each other (not wanting to upset the drama queens). Theres no fun or friendlyness on these boards any more, so when the old boards shut down, i just didn't make a new account.
I didn't run in your circle though I usually teamed/chatted with Dreymar and Blade, they always made interesting conversation.

I'll ignore the name calling and other mud slinging in your posts as I'm not interested in arguing with you. I'm still interested in your chars/builds and how they are performing so I can plan on possible builds to mess around on though.


Regarding the venger above: How does the new vengance do on bosses? It looks like it might cause quite a few counters (do all the missiles cause counters?). Do the missiles carry elemental damage from equipment?

How are you spreading your points? I used to do holy fire till 20, max veng at 20 with spare points until 36, then max convic.
Are you zealing on bosses?
I think I'll maybe do smite rather than holy fire this time, along with 1 in all auras as usual. The DR% will be perfect to offset the lack of it on most of the ele gear I usually use.

Edit: think I'll just go back to lurking after looking over your posts again. Seems I have no business here because my post count is so low. I don't wanna spend 4 months arguing with people to get it to an acceptable number. :|

Good luck with the rest of the testing phase all.


Last edited by Shauni on Wed May 30, 2012 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 6:08 am 
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Fuck I can't read all this shit, so I hope it has nothing to do with balance. Really tho why can't I split topics? Everyone needs to take a chill pill(Lee go smoke something and relax) and not lose focus of what we are trying to acomplish. Sure there are issues and personalities that clash, but hey I'm gonna try to get an update out by Friday. So lets just play the game and enjoy.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:48 am 
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Shauni: suggestions and feedback is wanted no matter your post count.

Dew: if there is something that I can help with let me know.

What are people thinking of NM at this point?

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:01 pm 
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kramuti wrote:
Dew: if there is something that I can help with let me know.


I have most issues already fixed, just tight on time atm with work. I should be able to finish and have all the files put together tomorrow night. Then I will send them to Duff

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:56 pm 

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Shauni wrote:
Regarding the venger above: How does the new vengance do on bosses? It looks like it might cause quite a few counters (do all the missiles cause counters?). Do the missiles carry elemental damage from equipment?

How are you spreading your points? I used to do holy fire till 20, max veng at 20 with spare points until 36, then max convic.
Are you zealing on bosses?
I think I'll maybe do smite rather than holy fire this time, along with 1 in all auras as usual. The DR% will be perfect to offset the lack of it on most of the ele gear I usually use.


Well first off, I'm not planning on maining Vengeance at this point, it's just another 1pt tool for me to help clear trash packs more efficiently than Zeal. Vengeace doesn't receive elemental bonuses from gear or charms. It's based off of your weapon damage.

The "missiles" that you see from the animation don't function as missiles per se, but rather depict the area of the vengeance attack itself.They don't really cause massive counters that I've seen, and Vengeance itself is useful on bosses if you don't need to leech (You have a healadin and a good supply of reds and juves).

I use zeal on small-medium packs and bosses, provided I can leech off of them. Since I can't leech off of act bosses and zeal would just proc lots of counters, I usually just buff holy shield and stand there taking hits and let someone else DPS.

As far as skills go, I've got Holy Freeze maxed, 15 in conviction (maxing it next), 5 in blessed aim, 4 in zeal, 1 in resist fire/cold/lite, 1 in holy shield, 1 in vengeance. My current plan is to finish maxing conviction, then resist cold, blessed aim, and I'm not sure where I'll go from there.


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:39 am 
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the missiles do function as missiles, each one carries 25% of your weapon dmg converted to elemental damage. they are just set to not cause counters otherwise you could proc 4 counters per swing. also equip a crafted ring with +elemental% and your damage will increase. any modifiers such as adds 5-15 cold damage get carried over and converted for the aoe damage. so depending on how you set you character up you could do decent damage. also max damage charms will also increase vengeance damage, i had them on my venger last ladder. i had 6 +12 max damage charms with attack rating and it added around 3k damage endgame.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:08 am 

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Good to know. Honestly at this point I COULD switch to vengeance if I really wanted to. I'd just have to ditch out resist cold for holy fire or shock, and then dump my leftover points into vengeance itself, though that would drive the mana cost through the roof and leeching with vengeance isn't very good. So I'll stick with my current plan, and probably level up another damage aura a bit so I don't have so much trouble with cold immunes (Amon in Chaos Sanctuary).


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:30 am 
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Lee wrote:
Who the fuck is this guy? First time poster and you actually have nerve to try to ride on a vet who has been playing this mod far far longer than you? Do you have any idea wtf you're talking about because clearly you don't. You don't even understand the basic contention of what is being accomplished here. Understand the BASIS and what the purpose of the assessment is in the first place. If you have not been following a long there have been MAJOR changes to the melee class and we as a community are in the process of 'balancing' these changes as to make sure that melee are not overwhelming powerful. Any time several variables are changed regarding a particular class there comes the potential for an overwhelming capability of being too strong or vica versa too weak. It takes a variety of tests/opinions and just a little logic to differ between whats too powerful and what isn't. Such as firedruids last patch. Who the fuck could disagree on their overwhelming capability of overpoweredness?

Just because I make a mistake or incorrect assessment at some point does not deviate from the purpose of what is trying to be accomplished in unity. Go fuck yourself. Read the first paragraph of my post and you'll notice how I stated that balancing is a unified effort and while my opinion may not always be correct.. whenever it is incorrect I seek to find out why and then recreate an improve perspective.

Not playing 'melee' has nothing to do with understanding the basics of balancing and what is considered over powered. You sound childish. You do not have to play a particular class just to see the power and capability of that class. It's like living in Soviet Russia at the time of Stalin and saying because you are not Stalin that you have no RIGHT to lay a validated opinion on his communistic ways. Understanding concepts does not always mean you have to experience it first hand. Understanding mechanics comes from experience but logic as well.

Again for a first time poster kiss ass. I tried to keep this thread flame free and you come a long as a first time poster and try to ruin it?

LoL you and Chuck HU vets 4 lyfe. How in the hell did this thread not instantly get sent to the Arguement forum.

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though don't have much faith in melee characters right now, with the huge CB nerf physical melee characters may as well be hitting bosses with a cardboard sword and it doesn't appear the damage boost from str has helped alleviate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Nazgul wrote:
How in the hell did this thread not instantly get sent to the Arguement forum.


New management.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:28 pm 
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Successful troll is successful


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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:30 pm 
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oZio wrote:
Nazgul wrote:
How in the hell did this thread not instantly get sent to the Arguement forum.


New management.


Or no management :(

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:01 pm 
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fuck i missed a big argument

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 Post subject: Re: Lee's Beta Assessment - Will be updated consistently.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:06 pm 

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lmao @ rasta

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