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 Post subject: no progress???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:19 pm 
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ok so there has been alot of talk and bitching but i think a mid season patch would be pretty nice and refreshing so thoughts???? Wanna keep this mod alive hope others care enough to agree on something.

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:38 pm 
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yeah, melee buff + bugs fix patch should be coming(along with reset ladder I think). I think Kevin's changes should be implemented, along with few casters buffs (ChainL anim change, frozen orb range/dmg buff, war cry being 50/50 phys/mag or better end game dmg, etc.), but that requires someone with balls not looking @ polls or shit. We can of course have a 6month long talk if melee should have 440 or 450 %ED str boost(Lee's favorite I guess) leaving the real problems of melee chars aside (weak 1hand weapons, phys res being too high, even if hacked Sp chars could solo hell diablo...) just to keep drama rolling.

Ah and I think Oak should be 4% or MAYBE 3% hp per lvl, boosting hp per lvl/vita for "tanks" and boosting inc stam/lycan. No party life buff should be better than passive stats... IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:56 pm 
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hurray dew!

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:10 pm 
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Tbh I don't like the idea of changing how amp works. But if we can get a change log made up and baerk is willing to do the work again let's go. If not I will do it if that's what it takes to get this shit going.
@Steel I agree tanks should get a better self buff than they give to a party. That would also make casters a little more squishy and hopefully a tank would actually be used instead of recastables.


Edit: at the very least I would like to do the item changes b/c it would make updating the site easier

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:40 pm 
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We can boost rare/magic props along with few 1h end game wpns.

Adding few automagics like 20-30 ias, 20-30 dmg to scepters could help zelaers/1handers
I'd personally like to see holy auras boosting entire team ele dmg rather than din only (remove aoe dmg), and making veng build somehow useful - haven't made a single veng din for myself so I dunno what's needed boosting.

Just like dins, sorc should be able to enchant any melee/range chars with all three elems along with phys dmg/ias. Prioritizing phys dmg first ofc, we don't want to switch phys dmg to ele.

futher balancing pref/suffix (like Kevin posted 6months ago) could also help low-mid game builds, I can try to balance(add) these if there's a chance of next patch coming.


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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Well we can make a patch that's the easy part gettin it implemented/ agreed on is the pain in the ass. Did u test kevins change to vengeance? Makes them atleast a decent trash clearer with the new aoe.

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:58 pm 
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I haven't.

I'm honestly not interested in boosting veng ability of clearing trash, it's still a melee attack, having -55% all ele + a3 merc around is enough. Problem is when it comes to do some bosses (seen many vengs only dropping juvs for teammates), it is just:
1)slower than zeal
2)deal lower dmg than zeal
IMO Vengance should have a delay (of 1 sec) but a huge dmg boost/range making this build more hit&run vs booses`and providing -ele res to entire party/+ele dmg for melee/range chars.


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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:19 pm 
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Veng is just shit because of the attack speed. I haven't read through all the drama but I knew melees would suck no matter what we did.

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:22 am 

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In my opinion mele dont need such a big of buff and changes. I would coinsider slight changes that would make them viable. It would also be easy to agree on cos it will make fast patch without drama of testing and balacing. To make it not next usless post i post my feelings about how it should be changes:
[*]Leave norm/nm boss resist as they are now
[*]nm mosnter restist lower by 10%, remove phy immunities monsters (except mini bosses which comes with trash)
[*]Lower hell moster restist by 15% or even 20% it need to be tested
[*]Remove immunity form hell bosses all the way starting off andy to like 80% and finishing at baaal at 95% phy resist.
[*] Double the amount of life/mana leech on mele items
[*]Lower they leech penality on hell
[*]Slash amp values by half and make it progress like lr
[*]Slash monster defance by half (bosses also)
[*]Increase importance of Lycan/increased stamina a lot, and nerf bo/oak values, so caster will be less tanky.
[*]To compensate and make caster life more miserable lower hp per vit stat for caster, and make it higher for mele (would need deeper thought at mele zon so it could be balanced out)
[*] Make 450% ed str, it make mele to choose str to do better dmg or vit to be more tanky.
[*]Reduce aviabilyty of elemental pierce on items
[*]Give lvl 1 amp longer duration, and add lvl 1 amp to some less ridiculus things than amulets, rings for example or on some end game gear with like 15% ctc.
[*]Remove iron maiden as a moncurse
[*]remove phy res pierce from dec, make it progress slow(reduce monster speed) on hard/soft points mayby

Possibly it is all i could thought about right now. To be true i dont cre if someone call this noob changes or anything. I at least suggest things that would help alot balancing realm, cos in this every party would requiere mele char, and it would even be usefull. If i thought about anything more i will write next post.
Let's the bitching begin :D


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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:54 am 
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[*]To compensate and make caster life more miserable lower hp per vit stat for caster, and make it higher for mele (would need deeper thought at mele zon so it could be balanced out)

For this what we could do is something Kevin suggested awhile ago that gives a %life on 2 handers like Zon Spears if thats the only target class. I'd even go as far as Scepters maybe not as huge as Zon Spears but somewhat more.

But everything else I agree with 110%

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:56 pm 

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LockDown wrote:
[*]To compensate and make caster life more miserable lower hp per vit stat for caster, and make it higher for mele (would need deeper thought at mele zon so it could be balanced out)

For this what we could do is something Kevin suggested awhile ago that gives a %life on 2 handers like Zon Spears if thats the only target class. I'd even go as far as Scepters maybe not as huge as Zon Spears but somewhat more.

But everything else I agree with 110%


At least one person understand where i feel patch or changes should go.
About HP nerfing casters is important, same as mayby slashing by half %life value on caster items, and add that to tanker items.
Also about item changes, we should rethink whole porcess. There should be 3 kind of items, mele fighter/mele tanker/caster. Mele fighter items should have somewhat subclasses like mele phhysical and mele elemental.
Point of it is, that u could make 13k hp zealer which barely can leech back to stand at boss but not dmg it, or make 7k zealer which would deal tons of dmg but could die much more easly. Same with elemental mele like frost bite, give them chance to be cookie cutters in casters gear, or go middle way into mele elemental gear, which gives them lower dmg but much more survivability.

I know all this what i wrote above would strike most at HC, they would have hardest time adjusting to this changes, and finding new gear composition between survivability and dmg. But that are my thoughts about somehow balancing amount of mele to casters. I know there isnt thing like tanking in hc, cos it is just too easy to die, thats why i thought about making mele tanking gear which would give mdr/pdr %dr and life, bringing surivability to higher lvl, but sacrificing dmg.

I know way i see it going isnt probably way it should be going, cos it makes game easier alot easier, but i think it is better to balance mele to caster ratio in easier version, so everyone can adjust and than at next patch start pushing hard meter to the top. All i have to say for now. :D


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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:35 pm 

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Prescot wrote:
In my opinion mele dont need such a big of buff and changes. I would coinsider slight changes that would make them viable. It would also be easy to agree on cos it will make fast patch without drama of testing and balacing. To make it not next usless post i post my feelings about how it should be changes:
[*]Leave norm/nm boss resist as they are now
[*]nm mosnter restist lower by 10%, remove phy immunities monsters (except mini bosses which comes with trash)
[*]Lower hell moster restist by 15% or even 20% it need to be tested
[*]Remove immunity form hell bosses all the way starting off andy to like 80% and finishing at baaal at 95% phy resist.
[*] Double the amount of life/mana leech on mele items
[*]Lower they leech penality on hell
[*]Slash amp values by half and make it progress like lr
[*]Slash monster defance by half (bosses also)
[*]Increase importance of Lycan/increased stamina a lot, and nerf bo/oak values, so caster will be less tanky.
[*]To compensate and make caster life more miserable lower hp per vit stat for caster, and make it higher for mele (would need deeper thought at mele zon so it could be balanced out)
[*] Make 450% ed str, it make mele to choose str to do better dmg or vit to be more tanky.
[*]Reduce aviabilyty of elemental pierce on items
[*]Give lvl 1 amp longer duration, and add lvl 1 amp to some less ridiculus things than amulets, rings for example or on some end game gear with like 15% ctc.
[*]Remove iron maiden as a moncurse
[*]remove phy res pierce from dec, make it progress slow(reduce monster speed) on hard/soft points mayby

Possibly it is all i could thought about right now. To be true i dont cre if someone call this noob changes or anything. I at least suggest things that would help alot balancing realm, cos in this every party would requiere mele char, and it would even be usefull. If i thought about anything more i will write next post.
Let's the bitching begin :D
Where do I begin...... wow.
Some of what you propose would make HU candyland, plain and simple. One prime example: "Remove immunity form hell bosses all the way starting off andy to like 80% and finishing at baaal at 95% phy resist." + "Slash amp values by half and make it progress like lr" + ez mode for melee, not good. Take your Baal phys res idea, 95% even at 1/2 amp value still means about 80ish after Atma amp, add in the removal of IM and melee now has no fear. NTY. That would set things back. In realitly, changing amp UP by 10% or lowering bosshat 10% would achieve a better result, IM holds them in check. I could see reducing moncurse im to last patch values, but that's about it.

Doubling life/mana leech using the above amp/phys res idea would make it far, far, far to easy for melee to not need support toons. No good. The leech penalty has been around forever, with good amp you can leech but it's not enough to eliminate pot usage which is as it should be IMO. Make it too easy, and the is no need for teams. What's next give them 100% cb as well? (sarcasm)

Reducing ele pierce has been suggested a few times, which I'm all for, but must be careful of overnerf. As we saw with the phys res/dmg debacle of last patch, huge changes can cripple/ eliminate a strong build from usefulness. Mistakes of the past need not be repeated.

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:24 pm 

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kwikster wrote:
Where do I begin...... wow.
Some of what you propose would make HU candyland, plain and simple. One prime example: "Remove immunity form hell bosses all the way starting off andy to like 80% and finishing at baaal at 95% phy resist." + "Slash amp values by half and make it progress like lr" + ez mode for melee, not good. Take your Baal phys res idea, 95% even at 1/2 amp value still means about 80ish after Atma amp, add in the removal of IM and melee now has no fear. NTY. That would set things back. In realitly, changing amp UP by 10% or lowering bosshat 10% would achieve a better result, IM holds them in check. I could see reducing moncurse im to last patch values, but that's about it.

Doubling life/mana leech using the above amp/phys res idea would make it far, far, far to easy for melee to not need support toons. No good. The leech penalty has been around forever, with good amp you can leech but it's not enough to eliminate pot usage which is as it should be IMO. Make it too easy, and the is no need for teams. What's next give them 100% cb as well? (sarcasm)

Reducing ele pierce has been suggested a few times, which I'm all for, but must be careful of overnerf. As we saw with the phys res/dmg debacle of last patch, huge changes can cripple/ eliminate a strong build from usefulness. Mistakes of the past need not be repeated.


As far as boss resist goes and amp values also life leech goes, lets compare it to casters. At baal u took for example, baal isnt immune t any element but is immune to physical, Mele need amp to dmg him, casters got 130% pierce so dont need shit to kill him. So there is 2 diffrences. 3rd one, you say mele are designed to use pots, so why mele zons, blaze sorc or hybrid sorc dont need them at all?? Change that i'm a happy man. Also i can list ton of build that not need pots to survive, but of course mele does. Same time Why mele should need curse when casters dont need one. Thats why i said to remove phy immunity from bosses, and give more life leech for mele, it would compensate range from casters and their amazing pierce values. U say it would make candy walk for mele, but lets be honest, for now it is cacke walk for casters, even with blaze soso and blizz merc i can solo every single shit that come at me. But when i take ww barb even trash mobs can kill me. Also with mele i run onto one phy immune and i'm screwd, with caster it is a bit easier.
Sure my propozal make it cacke walk for mele aslo, but when both are same lvl of easiness next patch we could nerf both mele and casters at the same point to bring it to the hardest lvl.
Try to understan that u cant find middle point nerfing casters and buffing mele, one of them will always be op, but when we buff mele to the pint where casters are now and then nerf both we have higher chance of succes.

And about phy resistance of ball going donw to 80% with amp, hmm lets analize that. Lets say lvl 1 amp gives 10% phy pierce, (lvl 1 lr gives dunno 18% pierce??), than if i have item lvl 1 ctc amp on my mele i have baal 80% phy ress. Than comes caster which have lvl 1 ctc lr he get baat at 81%?? Sure now it is imbalancet, but than op-ness of casters got into play. Now we have 81% elemental ress and we need to add to that -130% pierce from casters which give us -49% boss resist, compared to guess what physical resist ... U know the winner answer, yes it is 80%. So tell me who have better survivability, and boss killing power, my caster that can avoid counters and attack from range with massive dmg due to -40% ress at baal, or my mele which have to take every single counter on himself (counters made by him and even made by other players), and have to still count on that he will land hit (which is guaranted with casters but not with mele), then when he land hit baal still have chance to block that hit, which make it ridiculus to even get a hit in. And take into this calculations caster can spam one skill all time at baal, when mele have to avoid getting one shoted from massive couters, have to drink lots of pots, and still when he land hit in bad moment, read. when he got IM-ed, he(mele) can kill himself, when caster can laugh his ass of off poor mele dying when he run round and kill baal.

Ok I'v wrote too much. Sorry, but just proving my point how boss resist are unfair right now and how IM destroy every single mele character, also how much pot usage on casters is not needed compared to mele who need full cube to at least stay alive.

No one have to listen to me, I'm just putting my 2 cents into patch or at least discussion, last time i did complain about how balance work this patch some one said me to stfu cos i didnt helped nor argued when balance was done. Now i'm saying waht i think about how changes should go, thats all, and it isn't reason to hate me.


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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:37 pm 

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people won't work on a patch unless they have the changes their way. gl putting something together.


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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:52 pm 

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I'd just like to get a suggestion here.
Could we increase the base damage of most melee weapons? If that is done reduce the enhanced damage % of unique items so damage stays about the same.

Right now I find it difficult to go melee without using unique weapons, as it is far more difficult to get as much damage % on rare of crafted weapons.
That or I'm a fool that has no idea what he's talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:53 pm 

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Pious wrote:
people won't work on a patch unless they have the changes their way. gl putting something together.

I'm not working on patch, i'm just throwing suggestions. Actual ppl who edit files and put patch together can choose which changes are good which are not, implement them and go public with patch. This is best and only way we can go, cos other way we would have to make a poll about every single change we want to do. I tosss my vision of how it should work in my opinion, it is up for ppl who are in charge how they woill go with balance now.


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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:44 pm 
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who is in charge here? lol

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:57 pm 

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I wish PureRage was in charge and I hope Pious is in charge, but I have no fucking idea who actually is in charge :P

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Well, I'll throw my 2cents in.

All act bosses shouldn't be physical immune. If they are. All act bosses should be immune to EVERYTHING. This way casters need LR/convic to do damage also.

Make it all bosses have 100% to all resists. Remove the extra physical resists from the boss charm. Walla.

Been saying the same shit for 3 years. It's ignored every patch.

Removing the phys res from the boss charm isnt balanced you say? Because they have 40% absorb elements on the charm? Well, do I have news for you. Act bosses have block. Bosses 60% block(or w/e it is), mixed with high defense is worse for a melee than 40% absorbs. So melee is still hit harder even with removing the phys res mod on the boss charm.

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:27 pm 
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Shit need to be done the way mancer did it. Take community feedback and make changes while still keeping his ideals for the mod intact. That isn't hard want bosses to not be soft phys immune? Fine remove it but melee dmg gets nerfed a bit. So like casters they can dmg bosses but with a curse they then can really dmg them. Or instead give them some nice pdr so a dmg nerf wouldn't be needed and then it would be like them having a phys sorb, kinda like the bosses have ele sorbs. Also mdr should have been added to them to reduce the effectiveness of poison instead of them having 99% poison lenght reduce. And imo baal should have an aura that grants random immunities that can change every 30 seconds or so. For an epic boss fight.

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:49 pm 
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Pious wrote:
people won't work on a patch unless they have the changes their way. gl putting something together.


Ill work on a patch but i want more input from veteran players who arent just gonna speak up when its their build on the line. but have the common sense to say 'hey i played this char its op, and i have an idea how to fix it without destroying another build' or 'this build needs love and lets try something small for starters and see how it unfolds'. Bottom line is shit can be fixed for many more playable builds and not every char needing the same endgame gear. Variety and the challenge of this mod is what will keep it alive, not trolling each other and making a poll every tens mins. So if people want a patch then lets move foward I'm ready!

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Last edited by dew on Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:51 pm 

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you know what is amusing furycury? what you proposed is EXACTLY what we had planned initially this patch. then some people started complaining that it was too generous. then they complained further so the str bonus was removed. honestly i have no desire to work on a patch after the last process.

i'll acknowledge that i made a huge mistake this patch in trying to stay out of proposing changes and merely overseeing the process. had i put my foot down at the right time melees would be far better than they are now, being that i enjoy playing them as well.

the process in general has left me with no desire to take part in the next patch. everyone has a different vision of what hu is or what it should be that makes it fairly difficult to proceed with changes accordingly.

also i'd just like to remind everyone that i cant mod. the only thing i can do is put together people who can mod and hope they do what is best. the people with the power to make something happen are those that mod. i have no means to compel them to make certain changes if they disagree (as this patch proved). you can't possibly imagine how frustrating this really is.

i'll just finish by saying that the mancer mandate is that any future patches must have community approval. anyone can produce the next patch provided enough people endorse it. find a friend that can mod, get people to agree with the changes, and you can get the next patch in.

with that, good luck to all those who plan to venture into the process!


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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:06 pm 
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If you've never played a melee past A2 Hell on realm don't respond to the suggestions is the only thing I'm going to ask. I only suggested the str removal to keep Lee happy by the way :(

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:58 am 
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Who the fuck is Lee? Is he a veteran player with barbs or melee paladins?

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:19 pm 

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Some ideas here are good in theory, however ask this when we move forward: If changes, like phys res on bosses, are changed does it remain as a team based mod? Remember mdr was nerfed from diamonds to make it HARDER to survive unless really twinked out. Last patch things like str/res/dr/cs/cb all took massive nerfs, some of which were brought back somewhat this patch. Amp last patch sucked ass and melee were just a decoration in hell boss fights past Andy even with maxed nec amp. This patch, they're still a bit lackluster, but better than last. Casters, last patch got a huge boost in skill gear, and they moved to a whole new plane of existence comparatively, and thus still need a bit of reduction in power.

It is my opinion that lowering the phys res a tad (maybe 10%?), but not removing it, and adding back in a bit of the str buff should have the desired effect and keep the "team mod" theme intact. Reduction in passive pierce would bring casters more inline, especially psn as the high pierce reduces the plr on monsters as it is. Increasing the plr of most bosses has had little to no effect on psn thus far, all a zon does is spam more often. One friend I run with every boss fight past Andy he grabs his trusty zon and says "I'll kill it, heal me" like no other toon can kill hell Diablo. I have also noticed, certain servers tend to be worse for survival in boss fights than others as there tends to be a desynch issue. The hi-res patch, while enjoyable has likely exasperated this issue to a degree.

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:44 am 
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Pious wrote:
...

Heh - sounds like you have learned a few things and perhaps understand my previous posting a bit better.

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:05 am 

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hmm. if anything happens, cool! if not.. whatever! i'd love a reset though

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:17 pm 
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would be a pretty short ladder if we did a reset soonish. I wouldn't mind though! :D

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:21 pm 

Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 8:51 pm
Posts: 192
yea man, it would be haha

But this patch is pretty bad IMO, so im literally stone bored of doing anything now, but again.. gotta see if everyone wants a reset

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:22 am
Posts: 177
Location: Hungary
whatever for me. last season shouldn't have last so long either. but 1-2 month needed to test thing out to make no more mistakes. and a full-time season can come.


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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:11 am 
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Posts: 1413
Quote:
the people with the power to make something happen are those that mod


I have just started the semester, and am teaching a new course + other duties, so I can't be counted on to do any modding unless it will occur over spring break.

The only thing that will bring a new patch is consensus. People's changes compared with others' are still not coming to this. Until that happens, I can't take the possibility seriously yet.

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:52 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:49 am
Posts: 34
Ok so CRAZY IDEA here!

what about giving melee chars area dmg instead of only singular dmg on target.

still functioning as a normal attack on target but other targets surrounding targets take a % of dmg taken by main target and other effects like knockback or stun can be passed on through main target obviously at a lesser degree than the primary target.

this would bring the melee characters up to par with caster characters and enable them to be of use. i realise the game engineering required for this but i think the move could have the potential to balace the mod in the way of melee VS caster

again i know its alot of work but an alternative like this or similar would keep people on both sides happy


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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:13 pm 
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Its realy not hard to implement but imo should be on lower dmg skills if it were added.

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 523
FFS, a melee attack is just that MELEE. Multi target attack like zeal and fury should be the only multi target skills. Want an AoE build? Try a rabies druid or a venger they have that type of effect. Doing things like giving melee attacks an AoE makes the become too much like...... casters. What's next give berzerk a splash dmg of magic over a 5 yard radius? NTY, leave melee skills alone, only give them a bit of dmg vs bosses. As is, the mod is more like casters unleashed. I don't play a melee char for AoE, if I want that I make a sorc or zon. We need to quit trying to re-invent Diablo2 and HU. As is when (if) D3 comes out HU will fade away, so why not make updates smaller and simpler so there is less work needed to build the patch, less time needed to test it and more time to simply enjoy it.

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 Post subject: Re: no progress???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:35 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:49 am
Posts: 34
i can agree with your ending logic but HU isn't going to fade away any time soon as it stands HU isn't just a game its a community as fucked up and twisted as some of its members may be the newer game play and format to alot of oldschool players will be unattractive. as for mod dynamics thats what makes every mod the way it is. its the effort put in that really displays what the player gets out of it.

Also what i was sugesting was more of a kicksin damage spray to melee attacks with direct target radius damage instead of area damage.

It very easy to be critical of others ideas try bringing something to the community instead of shuting other down it'll build a better game!!!


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