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 Post subject: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:00 pm 

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Should I put more than one point on amp or LR curse?
Does it has different about hard point and soft point?And What is different?


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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:53 pm 
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lr does not have soft point progression, amp does

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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:05 pm 

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I put 1 point on amp and it said "damage taken + 1 percent". It doesn't different when i equiped gear and my amp lv 13 (1 hard point and 12 soft point). It said same thing "damage taken +1 percent"

Can you describe in more detail? how many percent that can get when put first hard point and how many percent when put hard point or soft point in next lv?


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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:09 am 
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Amp suffers diminishing returns. The max is 65%, 1 pt with a ton of +skills will get you around 60. Haven't bothered to look at the definitive progression though.

Any discrepancies you see in the description for the next level, and what you actually get at the next level are probably due to limits in how you can display things. Several skills that get bonuses on hard points only suffer from this.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:28 am 
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As I recall the actual progression for LR and conviction is 25 + hard level + soft level / 4. So conviction and LR do actually gain from soft points just it's not very much.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:33 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:18 pm
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So now someone says that maxing amp is useless ... I just maxed amp on my summoner and wonderd why the hell it is capped at 61 ... thats a bit dumb since i could get almoast same with my gear without even using one point in it ... And why amp is capped btw?? and why the hell description of amp doesnt say "DONT WORTH MAXING, IT IS CAPPED!!"


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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:09 pm 
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Prescot wrote:
So now someone says that maxing amp is useless ... I just maxed amp on my summoner and wonderd why the hell it is capped at 61 ... thats a bit dumb since i could get almoast same with my gear without even using one point in it ... And why amp is capped btw?? and why the hell description of amp doesnt say "DONT WORTH MAXING, IT IS CAPPED!!"


Omg, we are going around in circles with curses. If you use a diminishing formula then its a 1 point wonder. It don't mater what skill it is, anything that uses deminishing returns is a 1 pointer. IMO they (skills using dm formula) should all be just set at a max of 1 point. At least be honest about them being a 1 point wonder.

If it's made worthwhile to max it, everyone complains that it's useless because they only 1 pointed it.
Change all curses to 1 point max already, it's useless trying to even make them worth 20 points without complaints from 1 side or the other. Even increase the required skill points to learn the skill (5 skill points to get amp/lr, 4 for decrep, 3 for tap/weaken 2 for the rest).

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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:53 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:47 am
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why not stop it from recieving soft point progression unless its maxed with hard points? good incentive to max a curse

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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:12 pm 
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"Then melee need to have a necro with maxed amp"

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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:47 am
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unless you fixed boss resistances so they could do some damage with a low lvl amp...

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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:25 pm 
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then we might be able to leach bosses and cb them! O_O

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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:14 pm 
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Verb wrote:
unless you fixed boss resistances so they could do some damage with a low lvl amp...


So reduce boss resists and reduce amp values and get to the same point we are at now?
Seems like a lot of messing around for the same outcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:49 am 
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a damage synergy for skeles/golems, same with LR for mages/blades


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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:53 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:47 am
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Verb wrote:
unless you fixed boss resistances so they could do some damage with a low lvl amp...


So reduce boss resists and reduce amp values and get to the same point we are at now?
Seems like a lot of messing around for the same outcome.


I just gave a suggestion within the paramaters you previously setup. I didnt say it would change shit or anything, just giving a suggestion wich I thought would fit the description of what you were after...

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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:36 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:18 pm
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Steel wrote:
a damage synergy for skeles/golems, same with LR for mages/blades

I like this one, passive synergy to dmg of summons would be nice addition o maxing curse. Also for ppl who dont read forum that much as me, there is no way to know that amp is 1 point wonderer, so i just throw out of wind 20 skill points in summoner which cos of lack of a1 phy merc is hard enough to lvl ... could have gone for lr or even ba cos it would give much more benefit. Thats just not right, and even at hu database in hidden skill bonuses section there isnt even word about it, how screwd amp is ... Thats a bit frustrating, especialy for me since i got a lot less time to play and give huge effort to go up to hell with my summoner to just know i literaly screwd this up, just tell me why there wasnt such problems in 1,21z version, were almoast twice more builds were viable to play normally than it is now??
I know it's not topic to do it but i want to complin about one thing, First i thought Blue was going wrong way with his nerf everything strategy and strange balance tweaks, than Barek appeard suggested a few brilliant tweaks to make game playable, mayby not balanced but playable so i supported him, than i have to go for like a month. Since then when Barek got power to do whatever he wants, suddenly tweak patch of like 10 changes mutated into even worse version of blue and posted 70 nerf changes to almoas every single build, thats a bit ridiculus, most ppl on sc ladder says u lost track of getting things balanced, playable and giving fun, you just got into everything is op mode, nerfing everything saying it is good balance, which it isn't, almoast half sc ladder dissapeard cos of that changes, and i'm coinsidering it too, cos there is not a single build that can easly and no stressin sit and play alone, yeah i know u made this changes at name "we want a team play" but it could be done only in hc where every one know everyone, at sc where ppl play randomly there is never one working team, i haveing 20+ friends in game have hard time to get 3 ppl into party to even try hitting boss to just realize we can't kill it cos our skills were nerfed, resistancer were nerfed, and we cant survive a second at him. There is no fun in game any more it is just frustration all way, I understood when hell charger or hell healer could kill me, but when 90 lvl char go to normal and normal charger can kill me it's getting a bit ridiculs. I know u will argue i'm noob or cant make a good char, yeah sure but as i proved i screwd up my summoner just cos modders are silly and cant be honest enough to say that this simply doesnt work ... Almoast no mele can play either way, barbs are still only bo/mf bitches and nothing changes even with ur annoucments how mele got fixed ...
Ok i'm starting to turn into Lee postin shitload of crap into wrong places. Sorry for that i just got mad when i realize 3rd char i made is somehow broken after brilliant changes.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:38 am 
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Quote:
Thats just not right, and even at hu database in hidden skill bonuses section there isnt even word about it, how screwd amp is

Its not screwed... its using a deminishing returns formula just like natural resistance is, like the block on holy shield is etc etc.
All those skills are 1 pointers. You can tell it's a 1 pointer because you can see if it's progressing at 1-2% per level or if its gaining a lot of power between level 1 and 2.
It's not in the skill hidden bonuses because its not a hidden bonus... Its a standard dm formula that is used all over the place in this game. Are you complaining about natural res too?

Changing it back and forward and back and forward is stupid. Just leave curses alone and make em all 1 point max and this stupid shit will be avoided, trying to get people to actualy spend points in the curse tree was completely retarded in the first place. Nobody want's to max anything that don't deal direct damage.


Ps.
"Oh noes i wasted some points on a summon necro and summon necro really needs those points because they suck" right?
isn't a summon necro the first thing this season to hit level 101? (first on the realm was a hc summon necro)
You should have noticed it wasn't worth maxing amp when you seen that it had dropped from 10=15% extra pierce per level down to 0.5-1% per level around skill level 5-7.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:25 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:18 pm
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Quote:
Ps.
"Oh noes i wasted some points on a summon necro and summon necro really needs those points because they suck" right?
isn't a summon necro the first thing this season to hit level 101? (first on the realm was a hc summon necro)
You should have noticed it wasn't worth maxing amp when you seen that it had dropped from 10=15% extra pierce per level down to 0.5-1% per level around skill level 5-7.


Sure first 101 was summon nec, same time how many mor summon necks above lvl 90 have you seen?? Drrod managed to get his neck work cos he knew that amp is not worth anything, that lr help much more in party and his maxed ce idea is kinda suprisingly good.
I may be retarded but same time i'm just a player of this game not modder like most of ppl in here, i have no ide what stands behind "dimishing returns" in diablo. I'm complaining about someone is not completly honest to players, 1 point curse = max would be damn good way to slove this problem. I'm also complaining about many things, about this that my bow zon is shity as hell but it is probably my fault, about that my lovely psn neck was kinda left usless after deleting skiller charms, i'm whining about removing a1 phy mercs, so things that didnt affect balance much things that rewarded players who spend more time in game over players who play once a week. I would like to see zon psn nerf or either way i did like the valor and geddon rw changes.Sure they are nerfs but they are wise nerfs. And tell me how it is fair that efvery single poison char can solo 90% boss in game, and summoner almoast cant solo none. How it is fair taking cb from mele since even with it they do such a little dmg comparing to elemental chars. Only this little things make much diffrence, getting game balanced doesnt mean, nerf everything what is doing dmg, change all skills to be less usefull lower resist on every item, and bost output dmg on monsters.It just make game frustrating not hard. Hard is when i have to think before fight not when i need to get psn to even stand chance. Also i can complain about how it is possible that at a5 my frostbite druid can stand against wsk minions etc, but when i go to tundra and this stupid monster which use this ground spike attack from range kill me instantly even if there is only 3 or 4 of them. Something went terribly wrong since 1.21z. Game isnt more balanced it isnt harder, it just got more frustrating and less funny. Manny like seriously a lot of ppl who play a bit longer than me on sc says that if someone took 1.21z and host servers of it they would go there instantly leaveing this "new balance changes", and they would not go out there cos it is easier, they would go there cos it is playable, cos it was viable to make hummerdin or ww barb. It needed only fixing mental sin mayby pheonix strike, but it needed fixing not balancing it. I dont know why even i bother to write anything, if there is something i lerned in here it is that someone who is in charge never listen to community voice, and no not voice on forum, he nerver go in game and ask about changes players who play and spend a lot of their lifes playing this mod. Even one of my best friends on this mod, who teach me almoast everything i know about hu, after he made 2 chars on this balance patch decided to qut cos it wasn't good HU anymore it was just ridiculysly unbalanced. Currently he's playing single 1.21z. This also show wiseness of Soulmancer, he managed to make greate mod but when new minds come to id they didnt understand it and reorganised it totaly. Ok I'm done whining not taking more of time of anyone, i wont change anything either way. GL next patch and give hummerdins their power back.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:36 am 
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yo prescot where have you been? If you want to complain maybe you should visit the forums more often and be a part of the patches that are put out. If you're unaware, Blue is not in charge anymore, and all the changes were organized suggestions by players. You got specific changes you want? Go to the suggestion forums and give specifics on how it should be changed rather than "NERF PZNNNNN"

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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:45 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:18 pm
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slappyNuts wrote:
yo prescot where have you been? If you want to complain maybe you should visit the forums more often and be a part of the patches that are put out. If you're unaware, Blue is not in charge anymore, and all the changes were organized suggestions by players. You got specific changes you want? Go to the suggestion forums and give specifics on how it should be changed rather than "NERF PZNNNNN"

I know Barek took Blues spot. I got big changes in my own life so thats why i wasnt in here. First changes Barek proposed was the one i agreed on. But when i left forum 1.3b should have 10-12 changes, i got back it got over 70. And players agreed on them. hmmm go on sc and ask players what they know about changes in this patch almoast 80% dont know them and like 50% of them dont agree with it. Eiter way what would one vote for no change in that situation when 12 or 15 HC players says it it worth of trying. I disagree with many changes. I realized one bigger, removing teleport of from everything else than enigma might be understable but still didnt agree to this, but now favouring necros by giving them shield with o skill teleport is a bitinconsisten i think that is the word i'm looking for. This way summon necro can esly get source of tp and play rather normaly and druid summon have nothing till enigma.
Also there was one thing i opossed at forum, it was high res in HU. And i was right, cos Barek or whoever who took care ot it just did range of monster x2 improving they attacking, but merces got left alon, summons got left alone either, and still going into tundra wp is madness cos half tundra charges at me ot once. And when i play mele it just make it impossible to do ...


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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:23 pm 
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so what you are saying is, we should listen to the people who don't post on the forums? How is that gonna work exactly?

High res can always be reverted, then anyone can freely use highres with low monster AI range. Also, no MH with high res ;)

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Last edited by PureRage-DoD on Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:23 pm 
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how hard is it for those 80% of sc players to check forums and state their opinion? And just being a HC player doesn't mean my opinion means shit, it just so happens that a lot of really experienced players are on HC so their opinions are held in high regard (not referring to myself here, I'm a noob)

You can still play low res, but I, for one, enjoy the added difficulty of increased monster ai. Seems any added difficulty creates issues for some SC players, weird.

Abominae actually took the items from Blue's patch and 1.21z and met most of the values half way. Do you think this patch was a step in the wrong direction from Blue's patch? I think it was a huge improvement. Not perfect though, ofc.

You're complaining about summon necros, really??? I have a golemancer who is extremely fun, safe, and "stress free" as you said- and he's nowhere near as good as Tosh. You say barbs aren't viable besides gf/bobitch? I play a throw barb as my secondary and have 2manned most everything up to hell dia. A normal charger 1 shots your lvl 90? wtf man my necro doesn't even feel that shit

"cos there is not a single build that can easly and no stressin sit and play alone"
uhhhh.. I don't even know what to say here without insulting you, but I wish you good luck sir :)
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 Post subject: Re: Question about amp and LR curse
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:08 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:18 pm
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slappyNuts wrote:
how hard is it for those 80% of sc players to check forums and state their opinion? And just being a HC player doesn't mean my opinion means shit, it just so happens that a lot of really experienced players are on HC so their opinions are held in high regard (not referring to myself here, I'm a noob)

You can still play low res, but I, for one, enjoy the added difficulty of increased monster ai. Seems any added difficulty creates issues for some SC players, weird.

Abominae actually took the items from Blue's patch and 1.21z and met most of the values half way. Do you think this patch was a step in the wrong direction from Blue's patch? I think it was a huge improvement. Not perfect though, ofc.

You're complaining about summon necros, really??? I have a golemancer who is extremely fun, safe, and "stress free" as you said- and he's nowhere near as good as Tosh. You say barbs aren't viable besides gf/bobitch? I play a throw barb as my secondary and have 2manned most everything up to hell dia. A normal charger 1 shots your lvl 90? wtf man my necro doesn't even feel that shit

"cos there is not a single build that can easly and no stressin sit and play alone"
uhhhh.. I don't even know what to say here without insulting you, but I wish you good luck sir :)


Yeah i found out that summon necro is no stresin to play, only on think besides wierd amp thing and removing a1 phy mercs which at the end may be good idea, is reducing number of skeles. i loved to see 200 or even mayby 30 skeles running round with summoner. It makes feel like a real summoner :D I died of charger with my bone neck like 3 or 4 times. HC players are the longer staying HU group so they vote always means twice of mine.
Also how you can say added dificulity since there is no dificulity in being one shoted from outside of your line of sight. Or what is good in you standing 1/5 screen near monster ur summons attacking it, and merc taking chill not attaking anything?? High Res is awsome if it is properly adjusted, and adjusted to every aspect not just added monster ai.
And about meeting values on items halfway with 1.21z i dont minde it in all metter except cb. CB nerf is only one that makes me rage hardly, cos after nerfing it and buffing it now it still doesnt make mele build viable enough to be utalized, nothing adress that matter enough, also i cant understan reoving all res from Grandfather.
Also i didnt stan point that all barbs still are trash but ww barbs which were one of the strongest barbs now are best for horking and bo-ing. At 1.21z i could at least solo some nm bosses or do tundra mayby not fust but able to do it solo, with same gear now i barely can kill mini bosses on tundra. I know thrower is kinda good now i tested it on sp, but still i was pointing to ww barb. I dont mind most of changes since i dont play so many chars to feel them, but actualy when my love hummerdins got nerfed, ww barb nerfed, bow zons somehow, bone neck.
Anyway i can stop argueing with anyone since i only make ppl angry. It is more funny that ppl at forum gets angry but when i say same while playing on realm ppl stands on my side. Eiter way not taking anyones time and i'm going stop spaming this thread with irrelevant things.


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