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 Post subject: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:42 pm 
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I can't wait till this shit is released and everyone starts yelling and screaming again. It really brought these dead forums to life.

Face it, no one has Soulmancer's touch. He kept everyone reasonably happy. He didn't make it too hard or too easy. He balanced the majority of skills and classes.

The game itself has lost all appeal to me, but all of a sudden these forums are extremely entertaining. I can't wait for the next flame war, how about you?

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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:59 pm
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*popcorn*


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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:22 am 

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At this rate who knows what the response will be. There is too much arguing about what should be done to balance melee/phys.

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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:42 am 
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Enough time has been spent messing around. Blues patch would probs have been live by now and = to what we are gonna be getting at this rate.

There will be less drama as people are less likely to complain about things being too easy. Look at how many complained about poison zons vs how many complained about melee before. Nothing like as many, I see this patch driving away the people who are looking for a challenge and drawing in the bnet crowd who want to be able to destroy that big lifebar on bosses in a few seconds.

In an effort to balance the last 3 act bosses in the last difficulty in the game, the other 5/6th's of the game have been turned into a mess. GG everybody always wanted to get to hell tundra to farm faster anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:57 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:12 am
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
In an effort to balance the last 3 act bosses in the last difficulty in the game, the other 5/6th's of the game have been turned into a mess. GG everybody always wanted to get to hell tundra to farm faster anyway.


I don't like the way that sounds :(


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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:46 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
In an effort to balance the last 3 act bosses in the last difficulty in the game, the other 5/6th's of the game have been turned into a mess. GG everybody always wanted to get to hell tundra to farm faster anyway.
Even though we don't always see eye to eye, I'm with you on this. True, the change from 1.21z to 1.3a was massive in terms of adjustments, I'd wager had there been a "hot-fix" sooner much of the shitstorm would have died out. I came to HU for the challenge, I've seen parts of it get too ez in a hurry. I've seen huge swings in playability of some builds. As with Blue's patch, there are things about this patch that give me a WTF moment or two.

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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:19 pm 

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There was confusion again. The norm/nm and most hell values are all higher than 1.21z. Kevin and I were confused. After talking with Baerk and grabbing old values that was the case. Baerk was unable to see previous boss resits due to a script error on his internet so that's why this was so drawn out.

The next beta will drop.. more testing could be done but for the most part it might be ok.

Melee just really raped in 1.21z. If amp was 98% in 1.21z though it would have dropped Diablos resists to 32%. Now his resists are more at 55.

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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:30 pm
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Rasta wrote:
I can't wait till this shit is released and everyone starts yelling and screaming again. It really brought these dead forums to life.

Face it, no one has Soulmancer's touch. He kept everyone reasonably happy. He didn't make it too hard or too easy. He balanced the majority of skills and classes.

The game itself has lost all appeal to me, but all of a sudden these forums are extremely entertaining. I can't wait for the next flame war, how about you?


People bitched about Mancer's changes just as much. People will bitch regardless, mostly because a pet build of theirs got nerfed. All that matters is if the bitching is legitimate or not. If it is, then you should listen to it. If not then it's just herp and derp. No value at all, not even as a cheap laugh.


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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:40 pm 
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98% amp was impossible in 1.21z. the average amp (1 pointed) was 79-82%. it required level 60 for 90% previously

135% res diab in hell had in 1.21z with 80% amp he would be dropped to 55% (same as the current values will be dropping him too.

1.21z values are here
Just add 55% to the phys resists to get their actual values

The math isnt hard really. Boss resist charm was dropped 20% from 1.21z
Avg amp value is 20% lower than 1.21z
= same as 1.21z
Why all this work to get the same outcome when you could just have fully reinstated amp to the 1.21z values instead of reducing everything sneakily in the hopes nobody would notice?

If the boss charms have been dropped by 20%, then norm and NM bosses also have 20% less resists so using decrep in norm and NM and most of hell is a no brainer + it makes the bosses deal less damage to the entire team. zzzzz :lol:

IMO, revert the charms to 1.21z, revert monstats resists to 1.21z and revert amp to 1.21z. At least you couldnt get away with super slow + weakening hell bosses while dealing crushing blows in 1.21z... This whole thing is being made way more complicated than it needs to be. Complicated solutions often yield a bad outcome.

Edit: wrong topic ffs

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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:04 am 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
98% amp was impossible in 1.21z. the average amp (1 pointed) was 79-82%. it required level 60 for 90% previously

135% res diab in hell had in 1.21z with 80% amp he would be dropped to 55% (same as the current values will be dropping him too.

1.21z values are here
Just add 55% to the phys resists to get their actual values

The math isnt hard really. Boss resist charm was dropped 20% from 1.21z
Avg amp value is 20% lower than 1.21z
= same as 1.21z
Why all this work to get the same outcome when you could just have fully reinstated amp to the 1.21z values instead of reducing everything sneakily in the hopes nobody would notice?

If the boss charms have been dropped by 20%, then norm and NM bosses also have 20% less resists so using decrep in norm and NM and most of hell is a no brainer + it makes the bosses deal less damage to the entire team. zzzzz :lol:

IMO, revert the charms to 1.21z, revert monstats resists to 1.21z and revert amp to 1.21z. At least you couldnt get away with super slow + weakening hell bosses while dealing crushing blows in 1.21z... This whole thing is being made way more complicated than it needs to be. Complicated solutions often yield a bad outcome.

Edit: wrong topic ffs


I kind of agree, but IMO, just make bosses curse-immune and set them at a static PI that will not change.

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This patch is probably the best balance HU has seen in a long time.

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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:08 am 
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Rasta wrote:
I kind of agree, but IMO, just make bosses curse-immune and set them at a static PI that will not change.


if all Bossesd are Curse Immune, curses would be kinda useless, but i think it would be a good idea to make all Actbosses+Uberbosses Curse Immune...

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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:28 am 

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Not a great time to be discussing such big changes.. atm we just need a balanced patch to be put out. I posted the values.. the last 3 bosses in Hell need adjusted and it should be pretty balanced.

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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:55 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:28 pm
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Lee wrote:
Not a great time to be discussing such big changes.. atm we just need a balanced patch to be put out. I posted the values.. the last 3 bosses in Hell need adjusted and it should be pretty balanced.


Whats wrong with discussion? Discussion leads to solutions. And no your values are still askewed Lee. Your on the right track i suppose but again balancing around Amp/Decrep will always yield varying results.

I guess I'm confused as to where that passion to balance went. You displayed it when you came to the conclusion that fury druids could be game breakers. It seems that any discussion that isn't something you've initiated you don't want any part of. As proof here.

I suggested the curse immunity 3 days ago and all I got was that it would take too much time. Yet here we wait for hi-res to be solved which is a cosmetic change at best. (The AI range will be abusable so it adds no challenge)


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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:12 am 
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curse immune bosses means necro's have even less to do on bosses > necro's unique skills are useless > nobody plays necro anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:26 am 

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JnDmX wrote:
Lee wrote:
Not a great time to be discussing such big changes.. atm we just need a balanced patch to be put out. I posted the values.. the last 3 bosses in Hell need adjusted and it should be pretty balanced.


Whats wrong with discussion? Discussion leads to solutions. And no your values are still askewed Lee. Your on the right track i suppose but again balancing around Amp/Decrep will always yield varying results.

I guess I'm confused as to where that passion to balance went. You displayed it when you came to the conclusion that fury druids could be game breakers. It seems that any discussion that isn't something you've initiated you don't want any part of. As proof here.

I suggested the curse immunity 3 days ago and all I got was that it would take too much time. Yet here we wait for hi-res to be solved which is a cosmetic change at best. (The AI range will be abusable so it adds no challenge)


You obviously don't have the real time game experience or knowledge here to understand what is going on. Your ranting posts have done nothing but lead to pointless arguing.

There is nothing wrong with discussion but discussion has been going on a long time and a simple solution hasn't been reached yet and you want to propose complicated solutions? You're just wasting more and more time instead of helping fix the problem in simplicity. My values were correct and askewed isn't a word.

Again balancing around amp/dec is how it's being done right now and it will stay that way. Suggesting over dramatic changes to fix something simple is idiotic. This isn't going to become a circus patch because you can't be satisfied with simply adjusting amp/dec because you feel the game shouldn't be balanced around that anyway. Of course.. your feelings as to why it shouldn't be balanced that way are probably insignificant anyway.

Balancing around amp is how it should stay. Allowing more soloing for a melee/phys class is beyond stupidity. Already the most powerful class in the game in combination of damage and defensive ability.

Again as far as 'passion' for balancing I guess my 100+ posts haven't said a thing have they? My concern was with the entire melee/phys class. I've made over a 100 posts thus far trying to help balance things here and you got some nerve to try to assert 'passion' here? Where's your passion?

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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:36 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:28 pm
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Lee wrote:
JnDmX wrote:
Lee wrote:
Not a great time to be discussing such big changes.. atm we just need a balanced patch to be put out. I posted the values.. the last 3 bosses in Hell need adjusted and it should be pretty balanced.


Whats wrong with discussion? Discussion leads to solutions. And no your values are still askewed Lee. Your on the right track i suppose but again balancing around Amp/Decrep will always yield varying results.

I guess I'm confused as to where that passion to balance went. You displayed it when you came to the conclusion that fury druids could be game breakers. It seems that any discussion that isn't something you've initiated you don't want any part of. As proof here.

I suggested the curse immunity 3 days ago and all I got was that it would take too much time. Yet here we wait for hi-res to be solved which is a cosmetic change at best. (The AI range will be abusable so it adds no challenge)


You obviously don't have the real time game experience or knowledge here to understand what is going on. Your ranting posts have done nothing but lead to pointless arguing.

There is nothing wrong with discussion but discussion has been going on a long time and a simple solution hasn't been reached yet and you want to propose complicated solutions? You're just wasting more and more time instead of helping fix the problem in simplicity. My values were correct and askewed isn't a word.

Again balancing around amp/dec is how it's being done right now and it will stay that way. Suggesting over dramatic changes to fix something simple is idiotic. This isn't going to become a circus patch because you can't be satisfied with simply adjusting amp/dec because you feel the game shouldn't be balanced around that anyway. Of course.. your feelings as to why it shouldn't be balanced that way are probably insignificant anyway.

Balancing around amp is how it should stay. Allowing more soloing for a melee/phys class is beyond stupidity. Already the most powerful class in the game in combination of damage and defensive ability.

Again as far as 'passion' for balancing I guess my 100+ posts haven't said a thing have they? My concern was with the entire melee/phys class. I've made over a 100 posts thus far trying to help balance things here and you got some nerve to try to assert 'passion' here? Where's your passion?


Im not trying to add more solo ability if anything im suggesting to reduce it for EVERY combinationg ele and phys alike. I don't want to be able to walk a smiter through the act bosses with an atmas on or spellsteal on switch.. And don't comment on my game experience Lee...

SMH this is exactly how Blue woulda responded..Kinda wish he was still here because at least he was in charge...Blue 2.0 :)


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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:10 am 

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All I'm saying is it's a bad time to propose something that requires so much testing and correction to make accurate when currently under the simple system of things balance hasn't been reached yet. How can you not agree with that? It's better to just fix the melee/phys issue and just reset the patch. This on going discussion is going no where if it's leading into a whole different system of trying to balance things.

Maybe something for another time but for now the last 3 bosses in hell need the most adjusting.

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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:47 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:28 pm
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Lee wrote:
All I'm saying is it's a bad time to propose something that requires so much testing and correction to make accurate when currently under the simple system of things balance hasn't been reached yet. How can you not agree with that? It's better to just fix the melee/phys issue and just reset the patch. This on going discussion is going no where if it's leading into a whole different system of trying to balance things.

Maybe something for another time but for now the last 3 bosses in hell need the most adjusting.



Im rooting for the same thing bro. I want a balanced mod where it doesn't matter which way I go Caster/Melee I will be able to contribute. My skepticism derives from the simplicity of the fix in all honesty. I want it to work though.


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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:16 am
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Make the god damn patch. Who cares about bosses. If all the classes can finish hell w/o a party is perfect.


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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:30 pm
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tase wrote:
Make the god damn patch. Who cares about bosses. If all the classes can finish hell w/o a party is perfect.


...What?


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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:42 pm 

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SvF-Cagematch wrote:
tase wrote:
Make the god damn patch. Who cares about bosses. If all the classes can finish hell w/o a party is perfect.


...What?


He said make the god damn patch yo! Shiiiiit thought u recognized.


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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:53 am 

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JnDmX wrote:
SvF-Cagematch wrote:
tase wrote:
Make the god damn patch. Who cares about bosses. If all the classes can finish hell w/o a party is perfect.


...What?


He said make the god damn patch yo! Shiiiiit thought u recognized.


The point.



Your head.


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 Post subject: Re: Next patch= more amazing drama?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:41 pm 
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