I think the direction of this patch is going to be bad honestly. I don't think enough testing was done and numbers weren't looked at all.

While CB was added back in smaller increments Blues stre buff increase was left unchanged.

Melee characters such as Fury druids and WW barbs can hit ground breaking numbers quite easily.

In a simple test on a fury druid for example. I was able to hit around 75k Fury without might merc.

Now let's assume we'll see quite a few hammerdins and maybe some HoW druids rolling around due to the buffs.. pretty normal assumption. Also a oskill concentration Necromancer summoner helm was introduced.

You could probably break into 100k Fury and even with low CB you'll smoke any IM boss fast as hell. I don't even know the FPA on fury? How many atks per second?

You could hit up to 200k max damage in any given party with the right mixture.

Now with amp buffed ( not to what 1.13z was ) but boss charm phys res was also nerfed too so basically we are at what melees had in 1.13z with an actual damage buff due to the %Damage buff to stre Blue added.

Keep in mind I only put 350 stre on this druid.

Steelrends 200% more ed/20 stre
Noscoil 10 stre
UBer amys give 20 stre
Anni 10 stre
Bloodrings combined anywhere from 20-40 stre

4x Uber amy in a tyrael = 80 stre


80
20-40
+40 nos/rends/anni

It'd be quite easy to hit 350+ stre

Fury Druids also get a huge amount of AR from werewolf/fury and Fury which means you can use majority life charms more or less.

While theoretically I am just playing with numbers here. The damage could be somewhat higher or somewhat lower. Even with 100 less stre(250) I think the damage difference was 9-10k?

And while Fury druids are only one phys melee char I do believe the concept applies the same.

Now with global elemental damage reduction of around 50% which is quite huge.. I'm starting to think we're headed towards melee dominance again.

Melee/phys characters are SIGNIFICANTLY being buffed this patch. I don't think Melees were fixed at all. I simply think It just went back to what 1.13Z was.. melee dominance again.

So we have Blue who instead of properly addressing the melee issue.. he went to other extreme and bashed them into the ground with all the compiled nerfs and then we have the current proposition which doesn't fix the issue either. While CB was controlled actual melee damage was not.

This patch is headed towards two extremities.

1) Melee was way too much over hauled.

Higher accessibility to strength compiled with Blues ED% damage is going to result in pretty high end numbers on any char with the same strength investment of our current patch.


2) Elemental reduction was too overboard. A 50% global reduction doesn't address each and every individual char nor does it effectively accomplish much but making the higher end elemental damage builds a little less effective and possibly crippling other builds.


As of currently.. there is not any elemental character that can compete with a melee physical pimped out in sheer DPS.

Now with the oskill concentration helm added and summons all around buffed toppled with the necessity of a necro in the party we can expect to see
Necros rolling around with OSKILL conc and probably a fanta stick.

We can also expect to see some druids maxing HoW due to the fact it adds TONS of ED% Defense% and AR%.

I'm not going to be the one to bitch/complain without offering solutions.

Here is my recommendation to ensure a successful patch release.

First of all drop the 50% reduction in global ele damage to 25%. 50% is overboard. It doesn't fix anything. It hurts/cripples builds that rely on % damage to be even viable. Venom is an example.

Second, address the poison issue by nerfing the tiers on top of the 25% damage reduction and by increasing PLD. Poison is suppose to be SLOW and SLOWLY deadly. It isn't suppose to be SLOW and FASTLY deadly. Poison can be balanced to be viable and effective enough to serve it's purpose slow deadly/safe kill.

Thirdly, melee characters need over hauled all around. The ED % stre offers needs a drastic nerf. I don't know what it is,what it use to be but it needs nerfed.

Fury druids should not be able to use feral rage or maul with fury. No other melee class gets magical 30 second circular green and red things that give u ridiculously over killed amounts of Damage and life steal while you use your main attack. It's like a super fury hacked attack. That needs completely revamped. Feral and Maul should only be allowed to be used in Bearform and both needed a slight nerf. You should not be able to use all 3 at the same time. That's some elite godly shit.

WW needs a nerf. Bash and Leap atk dropped to 5% each. And a slight reduction in overall %ED on WW. Need some minor testing to see.

Remove the oskill concentration from summoner necro. That oskill conc can get high with enough +skills. If anything create another conc runeword or reduce pride runes. Oskill conc should only be accessible on a merc.

HoW needs nerfed. It adds way too much shit. Look.. I understand the idea is to get more people to use HoW but it makes no sense to give it 20% DR on top of an easy 500% DEF 500% AR and 500% damage. At level 40 650% to all 3 mods and 20% DR. Cut all of it's mods in HALF. 50% reduction and reduce the Dr to 10%. 20% DR to the whole party is way over kill.



I'm not sure about zealers I haven't done any testing but they probably need a slight damage nerf as well.

Before anyone bitches at me for posting this so late.. I was on vacation for three weeks and I didn't really have the time to stay entirely up to date with what was happening. I thought more testing would be done and more numbers thoroughly looked at. I was expecting due to the fact that so many people were involved that most of this shit would have been addressed already.

Going back to 1.13Z obviously was not the intention but this patch is almost an exact replica of 1.13z. Change was initiated because people felt 1.13z was unsuccessful allowing melee dominance etc. So Blue came a long and started his little group and created a failed patch. Elemental dominance and melee completely useless.

Now we've diverted into the direction of Melee dominance and Elemental so-so subpar compared to Melee/phys.

Elemental characters should out class melee chars in over all damage. They are much more fragile. Melees should not have the ability to not only tank, take a lot of damage but also completely rape shit too. That goes against balancing.

We want effective melee characters that are fun to play.. meaning can tank/ can kill but also reasonably.

We are basically heading toward the direction of 1.13Z with some new features.

Before I end this post I'll say I haven't done thorough testing but I'm pretty positive my theory regarding the outcome is accurate. The fury druid numbers point you in the right direction.

Again I don't want to hear the "you posted too late shit." Even if I did post too late the outcome will still be the same if nothing is changed.

Good day

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

I want to go on and add this actually.. if Melees are nerfed sufficiently enough then the 50% global reduction in ele damage is actually more or less ok for now. It'd take too much time to individually address each build.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

I have 77k fury with how maxed. with necs (61%) amp it's possible to "solo" hell andy within 2min... I had like 15k fury first time I was on hell with him... and much less hp ar def, get an idea how druids perform when not using uber gear. I tried her with just dec from sorrow rw and it was a total fail btw.
I see when you're going (balance game from 101lvl char perspective making it impossible for untwinked) but let's see:
There are no bosses without IM when you have 100k fury... maybe LoS but they got buffed already.
Ah %ed from conc will add maybe 2k more dmg to your merc/other melee.
Maxed HoW 535%ed adds 5.5k top damage when using tomb reaver - from 30k to 35.5k, WOW GAME BREAKING. With Sorrow RW you can hit 75k and have 10k ar.
With changed amp monsters have it now -61% instead of -45 and there are no way you can hit 50%dr without a shield.
You can remove %ed on it completely it will still be good. You're joking about %% here or never played ww barb.
Frenzy 20% DR + WW, Fade/BoS on dclaw... holy shield on dins... strategy/perfection on melee zons... Yeah 350% maul gives 4k more with end game items. And life steal is still not enough to survive on diablos fight without juvs.

Although a life leech effectiveness was requested for the later bosses it still does not change the fact I did not buff it as much as they requested. I know that like flat DR vs a DOT attack its entirely possible for LL to get out of hand if there's enough around.

Comparing the amps though as Steel pointed out it really actually wasn't much of a buff for the amp. The bigger change was easily lowering the hell act boss physical resists so that decrep could atleast break them all except duriel with smite active.

I never intended to give the mod away to melees again. The changes so far have been an attempt to walk a middle ground between 1.21z and 1.3a. Will attempting to split it down the middle be perfect? Probably not but it should at least be better than the train wreck a lot of people were fussing over recently.

Ok first off. I have no respect for your stupid ass. Your opinion is so worthless. All you do is cry whenever something that jeopardizes something you like is threatened. Just like when you started crying when I brought about issues regarding the resolution. Your a fucking dumbass when it comes to actually truly knowing shit about this game or your just BIAS as fuck. I'm going with BIAS as fuck you tend to know quite a bit about the game. You know why i'm saying "Crying" because your ranting without making any logical sense, PERIOD.


Oh yeah guess what dumb fuck the min spawn was increased TO TWICE the life now. If it takes you TWO min to kill andy with a necros amp guess how long it'll take any elemental char to kill her. I'm sure your two min mark is probably inaccurate. I'd prefer to hear it from someone actually unbias/reliable.

Arguing for the sake of arguing is what little angry kids do. Make a fucking logical argument or gtfo. So sick of seeing your stupid ass posts where you try to hide your angry nerd rage by being a little smartass.


Btw this shit better not get moved to the argument forum because I spazzed out on Steel. The kid deserved it.

Nothing pisses me off more than when people rant like Steel and you have no clear idea what the fuck he is trying to say or what his main point is.

So you have to re-read his babble and try to make some form of sense from it and still your lost.

Ok politely... I will continue.


You know when you start talking out your ass and saying shit like "HoW only adds 2k damage end game WOW SO GAME BREAKING!" Clarify WHAT the fuck you are talking about. Your mentioning a mediocre weapon that doesn't necessarily have to be used. Tombreaver? It's like talking about sorcerer using tal rashas armor or something to that extent. It's a stupid fucking comparison.


Please.. don't say shit like "With sorrow wep you can have 10k"

THE FUCK are you talking about? Please refrain from posting in any my future threads.

Why do you only have 10k with sorrow? Your babbling stupid shit.You can hit MUCH higher than 10k AR with sorrow.
.
Regarding DR. Ber runes were buffed in how much DR they provide and it still doesn't change the fact that HoW is way fucking overly excessive OP.

4 MODS including 20% DR at maxed level for the entire party?

635% at L40? Thats 635 dr 635 ar 635 dmg and 20% DR. Arguing in any way or form that this is justified or reasonable is absurd.

Regarding WW and Barb. The idea was to globally nerf Melee/phys characters. Instead of arguing why they shouldn't be nerfed your fucking babbling that my suggestive proposition isn't going to work? Thank you for your useless opinion. Any reduction in %dmg toppled with %nerf from stre will hurt a WW barb, PERIOD. Don't give a fuck what la la voodoo shit you believe in. Numbers are numbers.

Fury druids far out weigh Frenzy barbs. They attack much faster. Trying to compare a frenzy barb to a fury druid is a fucking ass hat joke. Again Dclaw sin vs a fury druid? U on crack? Fury DPS FAR outweighs a Dclaw sin. Dclaw sins don't have oak/lycan either. The same goes for paladins that's why they have these OTHER skills. They are needed for survival.
Furys ED is already extremely high toppled with maul and feral it's over kill. You can hit 3000% ED from skills alone. Fury druids have lycan/oak. They also get some AR/DEF from werewolf.

To meet halfway on such an issue FeralRage + Fury should be ok but Maul should be only on werebears. This is a logical solution to controlling the damage.


350% maul gives 4k? Again.. what the fuck are you talking about. List the gear your using. I want STATS, ITEMS ETC.

Not just some random number that you pulled out of your ass and by the way 350% on maul? What level maul is that? I've seen it 800% @ 40 which is possible with shards etc.

Again lifesteal and Diablo?

Don't post again my thread.. not only does your English suck horribly but your logical reasoning is like on the same plane of fucked up thinking as Blue.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

I stated in my post that AMP compiled with the act boss physical resists was basically equivalent to 1.13z amp.

What I'm unsure of is how much of a difference there is. In example a Boss with 110 res lowered to 90. Would a 50% amp drop his 110 to 60%? Like it would drop his 90 to 40%?

Regardless the over all effect is the same result of 1.13Z when you compile both together, Am I correct?

That toppled with the ED% buff from Stre Blue added results in higher listed damage for melees.

Cb is the only real thing that is nerfed. DS is attainable again. DR is also a little lower now.

Nothing much has changed from 1.13Z other than CB.

Where did you meet halfway? Explain to me. There was NO halfway. You met like 1/5th of the way.

I've been playing this game long enough to know what the patch is going to be like. I'm not stupid. Melees will dominate again.

The problem is people like Steel should have never been involved in actual development of the patch due to obvious bias. His attitude is blatantly bias towards whatever he likes/prefers. He does not speak on neutrality what so ever.. anyone who argues otherwise needs to pay more attention. While his game knowledge may be useful that sort of attitude results in shit like this happening and going untouched.

Saying shit like "Will the split down be perfect?" lol you have to realize there was no halfway and you did a really terrible split.

Elementals across the board got drastically nerfed. Melees were drastically buffed, period. There was no split so don't ever talk about a split again.

Either something is done about it or you can watch time fly by and the inevitable bitching about melee dominance coming up again in a few months and then it won't be "No one told me so!"

I played 1.13Z. I'm not God. I've been wrong before so I'm not stating that my logical prediction is going to be godly accurate but again I played 1.13z. Unless my belief about the amp nerf with the boss charm nerf is wrong than m prediction will remain the same.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

while melees got some buffs they still need max necro amp in hell to do any significant dmg on the bosses. that doesn't include the fact that iron maiden will still deeds your melee the harder he hits. that doesn't even compare to the current psn chars that can solo everything in the game for the most part.

the nerfs to ele chars are not that significant unless you use armageddon or valor.

yeah... my boy used his 100 mauler druid on hell andy using a sorrow...all that hublah jazz shit.
After about 10 minutes.. had her about [------] down.. doing roughly 80k(roughly) and some cb.. not a lot.. but some...

But again, this was solo... im sure with a nec amp, would have dominated.

As far as Ele... would they not still be versatile if they had a maxed conviction.. or a max lr?

Just curious is all(mind you I haven't really done shit for testing).

Because if the answer to number 2 is yes.. then wouldn't that mean both of them require some sort of assistance from a second party to be truly effective?

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Lifes what you make it, so make it how you want to live it, if your life isnt what you wanted, then maybe you should change it.

Well let's see how the patch goes. I just called it like I think it's going to down. Either I'm right or wrong can't be both.

Melee needed amp in Hell to do any damage on bosses even in 1.13z. Melees are still the highest hitting damage in the game atm.

@Poison which is why I proposed further nerfing it.

Theoretically melee have been given the capability to kill through IM bosses with low stre/all cb.

IM killed you in 1.13z too.

Again I reiterate.. The direction of 1.13Z was that people felt melee were over powered. Instead of addressing the issue properly Blue just hammered them into the ground. Has the issue really been addressed? They are still ground power breaking.

They will rape any non-im boss. You can still get high enough cb to even kill the IM ones. They are the highest damage dealing in the game. They are the highest tanking capability in the game.

Read the last two lines.

This patch won't address the real core issues that Blue OVER addressed. It instead headed straight towards 1.13Z was. There was no middle ground.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Builds that got hit by the ele nerf are like Trapsins etc.

It isn't just the fact that melee damage is over excessively high but it's also the fact that their survival rate is much higher then that of a elemental char. They can also leech and they take less damage.

I'm calling it how I see it. 1-2 months after the patch release would be sufficient time to say whether I'm right or wrong.

If I'm wrong. I'm probably going to be a little less quick to jump the gun. If I'm right then I'll probably take some form of action. Nothing would piss me off more than to see me give out warning and be completely ignored only later to find out I was right.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Isn't making a melee team with a necro amp to beat hell bosses the point though? I think it would be broken if the melee could achieve beating hell diablo solo or even hell baal. I honestly wouldn't take much thought to a 101 with max l33t gear solo'ng hell andy...

:D.
I lol'd... hard. What's the better wpn than TR then?
Cuz it adds no flat ar like ameth in TR?
KID .

It got buffed from 12 to 15... dunno what's your point really but noone maxed HoW before as it added too low. That just shows how little you know about offwpn %ed.
Lore, War, 300% old rends, IK boots, nos belt, 2x dru rings, highlord, tomb reaver(yeah week wpn!!) and sorrow on switch. TR is 3fpa and gives me 42k ar, Sorrow only 20 with HoW up... that's chance to hit andy 60%.

I won't post again in this thread, you are just a drama queen that jump on everyone when got wasted in front of his pc.

That's so true. Ofc "numbers are numbers".

Just because you can't kill IM bosses doesn't mean you can't be overpowered as a melee. The numbers are extremely over kill high. They will rape everything to shreds with a necromancer. That is why it isn't balanced. Who said anything about just Hell andy?

I'm doing ACTUAL single player testing right now to see how correct I am.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

The main reason I don't want you posting in my thread is that your fucking English is horrible. I hate having to read through your broken English trying to figure out what fucking point your making. It's the most annoying shit ever. And then after reading through your horrible English I come to find in fact.. you made no point but just wanted to post some rant ramble bullshit and be a smartass about it. Good riddance. Don't post in my threads again and you'll avoid any flame from me.

If you want actually propose useful information such as

NUMBERS!(BLUE FTW) Testing some sort of proof then I'd more than willing to listen. But you just rant on like a little kid.

Yeah and numbers are numbers.. he stated HE HAD no amp GENIUS.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Lee you are being to quick to anger man, take it easy. It's only a game afterall, lets try to get this community back on its feet and working together again. If you are right, thats OK. If you are wrong, thats also OK. Let's not argue over spilt milk.
Steel has one a lot of testing with melee chars (a LOT) over the last few months and even played melees during last patch so he knows exactly how they play before and after the patch.

I'm also concerned about the lowering of bosses phys res, i think it was a bad move and will be a problem as you say. Were the phys resistances of bosses adjusting via monstats or the boss hat? I hope to god it was the first as you could destroy bosses in norm and NM with phys melee in 40-50 seconds with just decrepify already.

The most worrying part of it for me is the blanket ele damage nerfs that cripple the untwinked average builds and do nothing of any sygnificance to the main elemental/pois offenders.
The top tier on plague jav nerf was reverted in favor of nerfing all +% ele damage. With a slight reduction on it, these offending skills get a minor damage reduction at the very end game, while the builds who were totally reliant on it just to be average are now even FURTHER from those OP chars then they were before.

I'd glad Steel is involved personally as he has played lots of builds last patch (not just the OP ones either) and regardless of what you think, knows what he is talking about and knows how the game works internally too (BONUS!!)

Ps. Lets not go down the "Bad English" path, especially with a non native speaker. Sure someone with English as their first language should have a decent grasp on it, but Steel is not a native speaker. By rights he don't have to make the effort to use english, he could keep quiet and not actually help at all. He is making the effort to be involved, and just because his english isn't perfect don't mean what he has to say has no credibility. I can understand him and I'm sure you can too. Having to read the odd line here and there twice isn't a huge ob afterall.

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Im totally with you Lee. Im just pointing out that the original point of this mod was party play. And i see no reason why a party of necro/barb at max level making the game easy is a problem. Im more concerned with the test of just got into hell intro gearish at lvl 90 ish.
And in all honesty a meteor sorc+ max LR golemmancer could make hell look easy too. Perhaps the lack of life buffs being an issue but they could easily walk through hell at the same speed of a amp bitch + melee.

+1

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein

Lee, don't be so angry. Don't base things on end game. Steel's Druid is the BEST melee druid on softcore. If he can solo an A1 hell boss in 2 minutes with ALL end game gear. He's still doing it slower than I can do with my friends fire druid WITHOUT POTTING.

Oh and on the high-res thing. Steel didn't suggest it that was Terry (you know the guy who made the mod). A bonus of high res we didn't even expect is that maphack doesn't work with it

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As far as being angry clearly I'm misunderstood. I'm more annoyed than I am angry. Steel finds his way bludgeoning in my threads spewing a lot of non sense with no actually useful information and it's annoying as hell.

While some people may agree or believe in his skill as a player I proved his ass wrong in a simple SP test so that should be enough to decide your reliability in him as a player.

It took me 10-15 sec to smoke Hell Andy with less damage than him @ 25k AR which he says he has 20k with sorrow. I'm sure he can add 5k ar some way or another.

Anyway I dropped the melee argument for the sake that they are still restricted by IM.


Now as far as being shit off end game.. I don't want to hear that kind of talk from anyone ever again. Everything is always based off end game. If it wasn't we would have never cried bloody murder on poison builds or fire druids eh? Think before you talk please.

The high res was actually ok for most people I believe. I don't know why I experienced so much lag originally. I don't think this Hi Res thing works that well in Windows 7. That may be the core issue.

Btw comparing Steel to your soon to be irrelevant fire druid is a bad comparison. With facets cut, temps dropped a skill +2 or 3 skills off warrivs and no more armageddon FireDruids ain't going to be smoking shit like they use to. They will balanced more or less but again.. irrelevant comparison. Unless you dropped all old gear and are using new gear.. in which relevant comparison lol.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

By the way.. thanks for throwing Steel has the best Fury druid on SC.. clearly justification for his arrogant bias faggot attitude. It's not hard to distinguish between bias and unbias.

Psychology 101 here I go.

A bias individual will respond fiercely against something that threatens what they are bias about. It's usually some form of angry ranting such in Steels case.

I made a well written post and very indepth/detailed. Steel responded very briefly in a displeasing, upset and not very useful manner.

It is an obvious indication of Bias because what I posted threatens a build he plays, enjoys it and imaginably wants to remake on reset. And the fact that he has the best druid on SC shows more of a reason to believe in his bias nature. We naturally become attached to something we are very great at or have the best amongst all others. It's therefor in our nature to protect that power any we can. We don't want to give it up willingly.

This shit is simple psychology. This is how people act but it isn't HOW you should act. Steels kind of thinking would never balance HU.

The higher resolution is another example.

I posed the possibility that the higher resolution would be insufficient for popular use and steel fiercely and objectively started arguing, ranting and throwing a hissy fit because he clearly had a strong bias for the higher resolution.

There you go Psychology 101 by Lee breaking nerds down on the internet one at time..

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Lee....

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Its always in the last place you look....

theres always going to be duos or trios of chars that make the game easy isnt that the point,a team mod?

It wasn't the damage that made soloing Hell Andy without potions possible. My poison zon has been op since a4 normal not even close to end game. I believe the first character to kill Hell Baal was a fire druid without Geddon this ladder. Shocker I fucking know. Use Cranebeak for fire druids this patch I made it pretty just for you.

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A common problem in these types of games is overfixing. Two or more people decide that something is weak, and try to fix it. Alone these would be fine, together they make it swing too hard the other way. In the long run this results in the game proceeding forward like a drunken guy receiving a blowjob while having a seizure.

The only way to break this cycle is to first become aware of it. That is where you are going. The second step towards breaking the cycle is to make smaller changes, but make them faster. Alter one thing. Test it scientifically to see if it works. If it's not enough, change something else. If it's still not enough, change something else. But don't send the game flying around like a pinball. The fast part is there so that this process doesn't take forever to get anything done. You need good testers to do this though, otherwise you will be drowned in a deluge of people crying that it has been 2 whole seconds, and they haven't ezpked everything on the screen yet in players 8...

You also need to get the subjective crap out of it completely. The moment anyone starts thinking in terms like "I like/don't like this build, so I'm going to give feedback accordingly." or "I like/don't like this person, so I'm going to listen to/ignore them." you have failed. You have failed worse than a guy using a train track as a rollerblading track and thinks that the light ahead is a heavenly vision.

Identify the good players, and pick them. Even if you hate them, it doesn't matter because unless you're an idiot who gets distracted by petty, meaningless bullshit the project will be the better for it. If you are such a person, and you are over the age of 12 please do the world a favor and delete and reroll in real life. Adults, and teenagers for that matter have no business allowing their judgment to be clouded by such foolishness.

Oh and find a way to prevent all 1.10 hack programs from working, so that I can feast upon the suffering of the many inept players who are helpless without them.

Now the first part I have done, but the second and third are up to you, the community to decide in the manner that you see fit.

Lee your posts are always so pleasant

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I suppose but the argument for a melee phys character will always be IM. As long as the IM system/check balance remains well there isn't much you can say.

However.. I am unaware how CB will be this ladder with boss charms being nerfed. CB may be able to take out IM rather quick on fury druids due to high FPA.

Anyway the game will be much easier this ladder with the exclusion of 101 Soulmancer. LoS druid may tear some people up aswell.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Which I think is part of the reason why Soulmancer eventually said screw this and took his modding to another game. Diablo 2 just doesn't have enough granularity to be balanced. You're either "on" or you're "off". There's no third setting. Immunes + forced to be one trick ponies, melee + IM... such binary toggles are all over the place, and there really isn't any way to work them into any sort of middle ground.

About the best you can do is capture the essence of certain older patches, in which melee was slow and steady, casters were fast and furious, and by teaming up they both progressed faster and safer, so there were incentives for them to do so.

1)I'm not a HU modder, I just edited what I was asked for, I've made maybe 2-3 suggestions about how, amp or stuff. I in fact here defended PR's edits... or just tried to point you have no idea what's melee in d2. Calling TR a bad wpn just shows wtf.
2)Regarding high res - it was Terry idea, you started to act like a fool because you have minimal to 0 knowledge about PCs. And all that cry about higher ai dist being impossible for non high res users... Even Pious called you QQ in game when we were testing it.
3)I never said my chars are the best or stuff. Lockdown's post are his own. I have like 2x 99chars and 26(2 accs +2accs of mules) from 21 to 97. I don't call myself a good player, there are better guys than me that you've never heard of.
4)I wonder what you made to improve HU over these months. Has just one of your suggestion ended in final note? Any thing you have helped to figure to someone? You just troll everyone and post wall of text making everyone ignoring you. I agree with Blue calling you imbecile... Ah you dreamed about dev team and being a leader!
5)Go back to school and learn how this world is made. It's not me who's proving you something, it's you who should convince everyone here to balance like you want. So far no one agrees with you.
I'm leaving "your thread" as truly you're owner of this forums. Grow up and stop being mean
btw.
You cry about fire druids the most, yet you fail to understand they don't have a final weapon. Without armg you'd be running with wizardspike. Same deal for poison, ultra bumped %psn and psn pierce gear make them OP. Stop rushing yourself using exploits and you'll see how lame psn damage is in 5-6ppl games. You throw ideas like "nerf psn, nerf fire druids, nerf melee" yet you fail to see what causes such imbas.
Fire druids will be still amazing killers without armg rw so op. Dmg will drop by 50% at most but survivability will remain as it is now. Oh I use like 0 juvs to kill andy, 0 to kill duriel, 2 to kill meph, maybe 4 guardian. Now x2 that.

Best melee druid on softcore isn't saying much since I know of a grand total of 4 in hell at all. I've played through with Steel kids got mad skills. Not as many as me but that's because I'm half retarded and play like I'm a Spartan regardless of character.

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1) Your english is fucking horrible. You have poor English comprehension. Trying to argue with me is pointless for your sake. I'm not stating that because your English is 2nd language is your fault but at least acknowledge the handicap and stop trying to throw punches. There is a barrier you can't break and it's your lack of comprehension in the English language.

2) No one said you were a Hu modder. Chill the fuck out. I simply stated a person like you should have no sort of authority or be involved in any form of balancing. You have a bias attitude. You know what that even means? Google English to w/e the fuck country your from translation.

3) As far as the resolution is concerned I never "cried" about it. I simply came out and stated there be many people who can't support this resolution and we should revert. You were the fucking cry baby. You started going crazy and fiercely defending it. You started calling HCers names etc. accusing them of wanting an easier game. You went on a psychobabble little rant because your a bias fucking annoying kid. You liked the higher resolution and didn't want to see it removed. I also went as far to say I'd buy a new video card to play it but what about the people who can't play it? Guess what you fucking stupid dumb fuck there are NOW people WHO CAN'T PLAY IT. What a fucking COINCIDENCE! Far as Pious calling me a QQ what makes you think I give a shit?! Do you think I care about Pious or vica versa?! We don't know each other IRL. We just play on a video game. I could call him a skinny fucking nerd right now and we'd still be playing together or talking normally on the realm.

4) Doesn't matter that you never stated your chars were the best. It's the fact that behind a bias there is always supporting reasons. In your case.. you have a very well built Fury druid. I threatened to nerf that druid and you aggressively fired back with weak ass points and a lot of ranting and no actual logical evidence supporting what you say.

5) Far as what I've made to improve HU over the months. What the fuck are you babbling about now? I never initiated a role to make some sort of change in the game. I waste enough time posting on these forums anything else would be over kill. I even stated several times in my vehement effort at removing blue that I DO NOT DESIRE HIS POWER. I don't want his position and nothing has changed. I want his compromise and that was it.

I even stated when I proposed a Dev team to help fix things that I DO NOT WANT ANY FORM OF POWER. I also stated I was not going to be on the team. My only purpose to coordinate it. If you want to call that a "leader" or w/e the fuck sure go ahead but It was a voluntary effort to help fix what Blue fucked up. I could have went with it but then Pious/Kevin were already working on building a patch so I threw support their way because I did not want to spend the time and they already had a compiled list etc. It was the better choice for the community.

I never dreamed about a dev team or being a leader. I think your dreaming that I was my friend.

Apparently you can't read. People agree but they differ on what they agree on. Your English comprehension is fucking stupid.

I made my points. I've established how I felt. I know melee physical is still over powered but I agreed to drop it because IM is a check/balance sort of thing. It's still OP though and no one can argue against it with anything other then the type of stupid shit you pull up your ass. Incoherent bias rambling.

I'm yet to see an argument against me. It's easy to disagree it's hard to make your stand on why you disagree.

Who has done that? I ask anyone to come forth right now and give an argument worth me responding to. If anyone can do that I'd down to listen.

Even Kevin said he agreed to a large extent. He even witnessed it in game as Pious Titan barb 100k+ ww with 50% crit raped andy in 22 seconds.

A fury druid is much faster.

I never asserted that Fire druids need nerfed you fucking idiot. I was stating a point in response to Lockdown stating "Don't look at it from an end game perspective." You simply restated what I just said. WOW! Your stupidity is godlike.


Your math is pretty fucking bad too.

-1 skill on temps -3 to fstorm on Warrivs -21% loss of damage from facets.

Armageddon = loss of -70% damage if you use the newer one.

Spawns of all bosses have DOUBLE the life now. You will kill 4 times as slow as you previously did.

That means you'll use 4x the juvs.

Learn fucking basic math.

A fury druid can kill andy 3-4 times as fast(probably 5x I'd have to test) as my druid can using Armageddon and older facets. I smoked andy fairly well in a SS. The spawn is now DOUBLE the life. This means that on the patch even with LR a FuryDruid will kill 6-7-10x faster andy than a fire druid will.

If you can argue that as being balanced go ahead.

I want to fucking see it. I'm asking anyone with balls to come argue with me and justify why a fury druid should be able to smoke a hell boss in 10 seconds or less in double the spawn.

Please kick a fucking field goal. I'd gladly knock your shit out of the sky and send you home with broken dreams.

Melee/phys are not fixed. They are just checked by IM but still they are not fixed.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

I like how you rage about video games . And my bad english(it's not even my 2nd language, you know any other languages btw?) . It's not like I care what you're saying so you don't have to post a wall of text everytime I or someone else post, get a job instead, buy yourself a new video card, after a month of clearing streets maybe you'll afford 5y old gcard to play d2 in 1024. Oh boy you made me smile.

Basically the sound of a quiet utterance after being owned? You know nothing about me IRL. Just because I don't want to waste money on a video card to play D2 doesn't mean I can't afford it. I just think a bottle of Jack is worth more than a video card to play D2.

Thanks for not contributing in any way to actually justifying Melee characters OPness.
Thanks for wasting my time arguing just because you don't want to see your little Fury druid balanced as it should be.
Thanks for being completely fucking useless thus far.. and I imagine you'll continue to do so in the future.

Anything else or should I keep thanking you? Please make a well posted argument with evidence citing why it's justified to have melee/phys on the level as it is or do not repost here scumbag.

You'd also get a much more politely/friendly response from me.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

I've played him to 95lvl and quit?? I said like nothing about fury druids from my perspective, just clarified some changes, like HoW not being maxed ever because it suxed as it was. You fail to see that ofc.
I'm not owned at all. It's you who makes a fool of yourself on gaming forum raging hard. And yeah, I don't know nothing about you and I don't like to, girls who drink a bottle of whiskey in front of their (shitty)pc don't interest me that much.
make me
And who the fuck are you again? Noone needs your respect or polite answers, so stop acting so bossy.
Btw. haven't answered if you know any other language... at least in form I use English...

Lee wtf man you ever been outside the US to appreciate the fact that almost everyone speaks multiple languages besides us in the states? Why would you rag on someone's English so hard? I have no problem understanding Steel

Wtf are you anyways? A Korean that doesn't speak Korean?

Oh wait, this is a game forum.. why are we talking about this?

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I think the arguing has gotten this topic off base pretty far lol..

Squelch is right.. D2 can't be completely balanced. You either have casters doing the majority or melee's. And if you try to challenge with the mobs becoming harder than u get Median.. Where things can 1 shot u if you arent prepared.

Go fuck off. Don't troll my thread just because you don't like how I bash steel for his horrible English. Clearly you see we are at a big disagreement and it doesn't involve you. My situation with steel remains between us two and just because it's relevant in my thread doesn't mean it's relevant to you.
I've had no problems with anyone else in this thread.

Steel came into my thread in a manner I did not like so I let him know that. He has done this before previously with the resolution issue. It's as simple as that. I don't need an internet Jesus to why me to death and ask for some justification in why I'm bashing someones English.

Go slap your nuts somewhere else. I'm an American who speaks English.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

you're flaming on the internet, this is clearly a private matter between you and Steel, sorry

EDIT: BTW I just asked you questions, why so upset?

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Again.. I don't give a fuck about your internet Jesus shit. Go slap your nuts elsewhere or post something relevant to melees/phys characters. It isn't that I'm upset. I'm just stating/explaining to you the situation. Steel and I have a problem. He comes into my threads and starts talking stupid nonsense shit. I'm very annoyed by that because It takes away from productive shit getting accomplished like actual real discussions about the issues with melee/phys characters.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

And you play with shit ppl like me?<3

lets just drop it.

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+ 1

Bring reset so we can get ppl back to games instead of hating here on the forums

That is always going to be the case. The idea is to balance the best you can and that makes some time/work. Right now.. I don't see balancing in any character with the ability to smoke a boss in 10 seconds no matter what level even if your 120. Sarcasm.. don't trip.


Over powered shit tends not to get actually nerfed until 101 fire druids are roaming on the ladder. FuryDruids aren't going to get nerfed till the same happens. It's just how shit goes and then when people start to see/realize.. "ohh wow lee was right something fucked up here. They even kill IM shit with cb gear. Somethin has to be done" People don't start bitching until they see it themselves. More and more people get fed up because their characters can't compete and then the rage lashes.

I'll be the one who said I tried to prevent it. I gave warning and then people will be "FUCK shoulda listened!"

No actual testing has been done with a fury druid/cb and bosses so I have no idea what they are capable of regarding IM. I'm too lazy to do any further testing so again I put the discussion to rest until the ladder resets since IM is the check/balance system on melees.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

You and I both know your right. All im getting across is that if Terry couldn't do it in 6 years I doubt anyone else is gna do better. He went back and forth. The inital dominating characters were Nova sorcs. Then the druid bug and curse immune. So it has been a pendulum since the beginning.
At this point IM isn't even a good sign because a well played 3 or 4 man group has a way to become Curse Immune. Cleansing..Sob for example.

I honestly don't have any answers though. I think the inital change should start with curse immunity. Take it away. Make the game challenging in that sense first. Then IM can be a curve to break melee even to the best grouped Party. Or another solution is to take away their life buffs if they go 2h. Thats the real problem to me. The 2 2h weilders are druids/barbs.. Both with innate life buff and an outsource life buff (bo/Oak). The initial Berserk skill had it right. Make all 2h's in game give a -Def% or something. Theres no reason a big bad barb weilding a 300 lb thunder maul should be able to not get hit.

1 shotting is part of that binary thing I mentioned. HU tried to remove the binary bits, and succeeded in a few areas (no town portals = have to take bosses in one go) but there's some things about D2 that just can't change. Either literally, because they are hardcoded or because it would not be D2 anymore without them.

That and it has a very high degree of variance. Take a boss, a random boss. Give them Teleportation, Spectral Hit and Blessed Aim. Not going to be that much harder. Now give the same boss any three of Extra Strong, Extra Fast, Cursed, Might, or Fanaticism. Exactly. End result is that the game can only kill decent characters through complacency or instant kills, because anyone strong enough to deal with the worst case scenarios facerolls anything less. This is also why non boss fights are mostly forgettable. If you can take the boss down, the trash mobs are well... trash mobs. If you can't, you have far worse problems.

Remove immunes and anyone can solo anything, so that's out.



With a maxed out 101 fury druid? I certainly hope they can beat the shit out of a boss 17 levels lower, as that is the epitome of trivial content. Now if said fury druid can take out hell diablo, or hell baal, or even hell meph like that that might be a problem. If a level 85 fury druid with 75-80 gear can take out hell andy like that, that would be a problem. But nerfing based on the absolute top end just means all the people getting there fail horrifically at everything. So they never get to said top end.



Funny thing. Nova was nerfed not because Nova was overpowered, but because the next hit delay bug made it hit bosses several dozen times per casting. Any skill with next hit delay does that (blade sentinel, volcano...)

And what druid bug? I don't remember this.

Since you wanna bash his English speaking skills I took the liberty of bolding the mistakes you made in the post doing it.

Also you are still basing things on end game items. Roll through with a properly geared character for the level and situation. I guarantee your resistances will be hurting (especially on Druids) and you won't have the crazy insane damage or AR of a 101 fully decked out uber character. Doesn't Tobial have IM anyway?

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I see my HU comrades are indeed gentlemen and scholars lol
Prediction for patch? Better than last. That's the point right? I thought so at least. There's no perfect of course. There is only progress. Measure progress from the starting point and you find that a bunch of good things are happening.

I really don't like when people bash language skills on a worldwide thing such as the internet. English isn't my first language and it shows up a lot with my word choice. It's a very difficult language to learn in the first place and most people who have been speaking it their whole life often make mistakes.

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Aww aren't you just so cute. OK? What is your fucking point? Fail trolling? My english makes overall sense. It's simple to read. I'm not boasting that I actually re-read the shit I post or take my time to make it beautifully perfect to appease some egotistic nerds but at the same time I have full comprehension of the English language and could understand a post such as this without any sort of confusion or misconception something Steel can't do.

I play HardCore ok since you want to be a smartass and 4x0 it there is no fucking way you can use 0 juvs on Andy on a FireDruid if your directly in her face. I've used 8-10 and my fire druid is PIMPED out in terms of survivability/damage. OH by the way that is in single spawn.

So taking the liberty to try to pull a jack ass comment like that out of your ass even when you know a FireDruid can't kill a Hell boss without using juvs makes you look like a complete egotistical failure of an asshole. What a way to insult me. Good one. Keep it coming.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Well I didn't ask for your sympathetic gestures for people who can't speak or comprehend the English language fully. Steel took the initiation to bombard my threads with his stupidity in that it cost him my respect. His attitude is childish as fuck. I don't have respect for people like that. I don't care if you agree, like it or don't like it. Steel is at fault. I told him not to post in my threads and still he continues. I told him to post logical information and not incoherent rambling and still he hasn't. He'd rather me bitch at him and make fun of his poor English.

So go write a fucking post for him explaining why Melee/Phys are not going to be OP and use some accurate factual shit and maybe I won't make fun of his English anymore.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Cast oak directly in front of Andariel to eat the counters she'll hit that instead of you. I don't think Steel has EVER asked anyone to re-state what they meant in simpler terms so he could comprehend what was being said.

This went from a simple debate to you taking something too personal yet again and attacking something completely unrelated to the argument in the first place.

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argument forum or pm for personal issues?




Still happening.......

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Practice safe trolling and be wary of spambots they have squaids.