There has already been one of these and it seems blue has continued to work on the patch after his tantrum. However what I am curious of is how many people want to continue working with the uncompromising blue.



This seems like the authorization or consent that some people were looking for.

The question for this poll is a simple one.
Moving forward does the community want to continue to work WITH an uncompromising blue who ignores the community and implements whatever he deems fit (6 pt dins)
OR
Would the community rather move forward WITHOUT an uncompromising blue at the helm.

I make a point of specifying uncompromising because I feel, myself included, that most people would have no issue with blue if he listened to the community (like at all.) So while a vote for option B could still be for blue making the changes; he would have to have some interaction with the community and not force his changes on the community like he has been doing.

So to reiterate:
a vote for option #1 means you are completely satisfied with the current situation of Blue making all of the changes and deciding on his own what is and is not appropriate.

a vote for option #2 means you are not completely satisfied with the current situation and are looking for a change. This change could be a different member of the community implementing the changes that the community deems fit or it could be Blue (working WITH the community) making changes.

If there is enough interest in these polls there could be another one of where to start :
using last patch as a base
OR
current patch

_________________
“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

Unless Blue makes a post specifically saying he will change his attitude towards the community then I have no choice but to vote for option two. Mancer has said the community is in it's own hands meaning that Blue doesn't have any sole one man power. The issue is getting the community to come together. Good luck with that as the last poll seemed like it was realistically 40% supporting blue 60% the rest assuming all option 2 would go 3 before 1. Had there have been more support against Blue then there would be a little more hope. I don't know how accurate those poll numbers were or if anyone created accs just to vote for either option. The turn out did seem rather high but it's more than possible it was legit.

If Blue comes out stating he will compromise in the future then I have no problem supporting him but if his attitude is unwilling to change then Mancer laid it out plain and simple. HU is the communities.

Let's see how this poll turns out I suppose and go from there. Maybe Blue will respond if he cares about his position anymore.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

I voted 2 for the single reason being, we've seen Blue's attitude for last patch and proposed patch. The idea of a "community patch" means everyone has a voice, we may not agree but that's the way of things. I would in many ways like to start with 1.21 patch as the basis. Making smaller changes to that.

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein

If Blue is voted out that means the veteran community players are going to have to step in and unite the entire community and figure out what happens next. It's not so simple that we over throw Blue and there is no plan after that. You don't want to remove Blue and start anarchy.

I'd opt for ventrilo communication between veteran players if this poll shows high numbers for option two.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Devteam 2.0?? It didn't worked well last time.
There's no more to say here. Even SM said Blue should listen to community but he is the one who wanted to continue his work.

Well my words dont mean much, but I would rather give the patch blue working on a shot, then if it seems to go way of, rather step in and take actions..

Better take action now.We tried that before and it was failure.

_________________
Out of darkness, out of mind,
Cast down into the Halls of the Blind.

Sitting at 2-12 atm. Can't really say much until it all boils down. If the poll ended up to 40-60 that could be enough for blue to argue his position possibly as still valid but if it ends up really bad for blue like 30-70 or 20-80 then he has to compromise or say good bye to his position in the community.

As far as the Dev team goes. It all comes to organization and people who are willing to work. The first one failed for several reasons and I'm not going to get into all of it now but one of the main reasons was that no changes were being done UNTIL Blue took over. That was like what.. how long since the Dev team were discussing changes? A year?

The fact is.. most of the community still want changes. They just don't want the same game pounding ridiculous changes that Blue went about with. They don't want an individual in charge who doesn't give a shit about what the more intelligent, and experienced players say. It's safe to say for the majority of respectable, decent players that they want a balanced game with new content. It's a foundation most of us can agree on.

Blue just can't be over thrown without an organized plan put into place. It's as simple as that.

But based on these poll numbers so far.. Blues going to have to bite down on his arrogance and come back with a different attitude if he cares to continue doing any more modding for the community.

Like I said.. if Blue came back willing to compromise and change his behavior I'm willing to throw support his way.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Okey, just like the pre patch notes, seems like alot of good stuff going on, cept maybe the oak debuff..

Didn't vote.
In the end, now that Soulmancer said he's done with HU, isn't it up to Duff?
(he controls the realm)

Funny how you start talking about moving on without the only modder of Hell Unleashed.
Get over it, Oak debuff won't ruin your lifes.

Why do I have a feeling Sytaris is blue?

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

why hold a second poll over something that seems to have been already voted on in the first?

my thougt to!

because there was criticism over a3 option poll. also mancer saying it is in our hands changes things. blue isn't holding all the cards

_________________
“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

Hmm... I'd really like to see a Blue post on if he's willing to work with us or not. His opinion may of changed now or it may not of.

_________________

Why would blue want to post in a totally biased poll?

I am all for changing some things, and would even do some things if I could work on them during a weekend. I just really don't like the continuing smearing of shit in blue's face (or now on his doorstep). Why didn't your poll say 'without an uncompromising blue or with a compromising blue"? After all the shit that was said about trying to pm him in a compromising manner, this is the result...I suppose this was a rhetorical statement...

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The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos

to quote SM's post in the state of community thread:
No one else seems willing to do work on and compile a new patch; but I haven't always supported some of his changes either. I agree he needs to take a more balanced approach at listening to the community as a whole, HU is very senseative to small changes and tweaks that can make one class or boss go from completely overpowered to completely useless.

I think that sums up how lots of people feel. If Blue is willing to work with us, I am willing to work with him. He logged on a couple days ago, I'm waiting to hear him out before voting

_________________

is that better?

_________________
“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

Didn't want him to post here just wanted his opinion now that Terry has posted and he's had time to away to mull over the feelings of the community and that we ARE willing to work WITH him if he will listen to us.

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I voted 2, i just want to play a balanced patch in all areas (or as well as we can get it)

We need compromise to achieve that...

Its simple IMO, we could work fine with blue if he does compromise! Have to wait and see

_________________
Trolling LockDown since 14/01/2012.

I find it very odd how so many people seem to be confused over the issue with Blue. Don't forget that Blue wanted to continue to mod HU after mancer stepped down. He was doing it for the community one would assume. His actions speak much different than what I originally assumed.

The guy basically got insanely obsessed with his power to mod. He refused to listen to players who blatantly knew more and had much more experience. He does basically whatever he wants and hardly takes what anyone says in the community into consideration.

He wanted to continue to mod HU but who is he doing it for? Himself or the community? It's as simple as this, if your willing to mod a game for the people who play it then why wouldn't you listen or compromise for those people?

Again I say, is blue modding HU for blue or for us? If he's doing it for the people who play then his attitude has got to change.

I don't think anyone in this community is being unreasonable at all. We simply ask for our voices to be heard. Everyone should be in support of removing Blue. The guy turned HU into North Korea. In the end, it's a video game and not a fucking communist state. If you want a psychotic Blue dictating and running HU into the ground then all by means have fun being treated like complete shit while Blue runs the mod into the ground and these forums become a ghost town like Aftermath.

Now that power has shifted, Blue has a choice to make. We can move on with you or without you but we are giving you the choice. Put your arrogance and pride away for once. Come back willing to compromise in the future.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

In the time spent messing around with polls and shit, someone could have made a quick patch using any version as the base. Someone (anyone at all) should just grab the texts make some changes then post the link on the forums with the changelog. Don't bother discussing it, just do what you think. THEN vote on the best changelog and have that one.

Edit: anyone who does give it a shot, PM me if you get stuck and I can give you some pointers. Maybe stel would point you in the right direction too.

Edit2: Would be nice to see a "User Created Content" forum here.

_________________

While this is ideal. I don't think it can be done yet. No one has a word from Blue. Is he coming back or is he done with the community? We have to hear from Blue first.

Having random people posting won't do much either. It'd be anarchy. Someone is going to have to replace Blue, or a dev team has to be setup again, and then someone still has to edit the patch.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

I am just tired of the finger pointing. It's time for us to either put up or shut up. Like I have said, I can/will help if it can be done during a weekend.

I am comfortable with dealing with items. I have a pretty good knowledge of who skills work, though several others are more knowledgeable than me in that area by quite a bit. I don't have the old patch anymore, so if we are going to use that as a base, then I will need to get them.

At this point, now that Terry has said it is in the community's hands. There is no point in waiting for Blue before anybody begins. It's not going to be finished tomorrow. If he comes back, then there will be something to discuss, where each of us has put the best foot forward rather than putting our collective asses in the air.

edit: p.s. that wasn't all directed at you Zikur...in case it was taken that way.

_________________
The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos

This is exactly what I meant when I said there has to be a structured plan on what happens next. Now everyone wants to edit items. Now everyone wants to mod. It doesn't work like that.

There is either going to be a veteran player in the community in Blue's spot or a dev team will be setup again. The mod being in the communities hands suggests a dev team but it should be composed of veteran players not just anyone.

That's another reason why I'm opposed to PureRages idea.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

If you wanna set up a team, discuss everything to death then find someone who will actually do it, it will most likely be too late. Since blue has been missing, there has been no actual proposed list, just discussions about what to do next.

First you will need to decide who is actually on the team
Then decide who will actually do the editing
Then discuss everything and come to an agreement
Then waste time answering the complaints topics from the 1/3 to 1/2 of the comunity who don't agree
Then find some people to test stuff (impossible here btw, if its not multiplayer, nobody plays).

in total,
20% of the time will be spent deciding who is in the team,
50% arguing about who isn't on the team
20% discussing changes
8% testing
2% modding

Thats fine, just do the modding and testing first and skip the whole "Team" thing. Deciding on changes takes waaaaaaaay longer than actually implementing it. It's a failing model because anyone who isn't in the group who feels they should be will just disagree with everything (human nature).

Anyone who is able to do it, just do it and present your own changelog that people can decide on. One rule would be, no complaints about any of the changes until you have actually tested the build in question with the proposed patch in sp or over hamachi/tcp/ip.

_________________

I am not just a wannabe. I didn't come around yesterday. I am not going to willy-nilly modify shit to my liking. I was asked to be a part of the last dev team because some figured out that I do actually know how to do some things rather than just being able to spout what should be done (I said then that I am a casual player, and I had even less time then. It doesn't mean that I don't understand the flavor, and heritage of this mod). I am simply offering services. If they are not wanted...shrug.

_________________
The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos

Since Blue has been gone there have been discussions on finding out what to do next. First of all, like I said... can anyone confirm that Blue is officially gone or will he show up again one day? There is no organized structure either right now in the community.

As I said before. Everyone will want to mod. Everyone will want to edit items. It can't be ran that way. Pious's there can't be all chiefs and indians thought can be used here.

There has to be a suitable replacement. Having several people put up a proposed patch list does nothing productive and keeps us in the same circle.

The idea of how I think a dev team should be set up is far different than what it was before.

If it's a all a waste of time then why bother in the first place? Of course time is involved. Your going to have to spend time.

It's obvious one person running shit isn't going to work unless that person is an experienced, veteran and can work with the reasonable players in the community.

Heres why a dev team will work.

First of all, It's going to have to be setup, and organized differently this time.

Second of all, far much more is accomplished with several people working
together than it is for one individual to do it all.

Third, there is still going to be a person in charge of the dev team.

Fourth, it creates a check and balance on power. Not one sole person is going to be the person running shit and doing all the work.

Fifth, it will be set up of players who know who what the fuck they are doing. Obvious veterans and not 6.5k Ar Barbarians who don't know jack shit about this game.

Let's face the reality. Blue failed because he is an inexperienced, unknowledgeable player. A veteran Dev team will be far more successful than Blue.

It's quite obvious that most veterans here agree with eachother. Most of us were against Blues six stat point changes and his oak nerf.

You may not agree with the idea but in my opinion it is workable and far better than the method we have now. More can be accomplished.

"First you will need to decide who is actually on the team
Then decide who will actually do the editing
Then discuss everything and come to an agreement
Then waste time answering the complaints topics from the 1/3 to 1/2 of the comunity who don't agree
Then find some people to test stuff (impossible here btw, if its not multiplayer, nobody plays).
"


Deciding who is on the team isn't going to be hard. It will be amongst veterans in the community. The more people you have working on something the more you can do. It's as simple as that. That's a reality.

Discussing and arguing with the community is even worse when ONE person is doing it. When you have a dev team that agrees then you have several people explaining to the people who disagree.

Finding someone to test shouldn't be so difficult man. It's a dev team. It's composed of people willing to spend some time.

We aren't trying to drop a patch every week or something. It will take a few months per patch. Time is required. If you don't want to spend the time then don't do it. It's as simple as that.

Blues method failed. It won't work again. Unless there is a suitable replacement.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Those reasons were the reasons for the original Dev team and look what happened to that. People who weren't "picked" cried like kiddies and just moaned and bitched. Then we were blamed for "Not listening to the community" by people who dissagreed with something. THEN because 99% of the community "felt left out" nobody bothered getting involved in testing.

The old Dev team was Me, Pious, Alex, Jarl, Ben, Kramuti, then Brevan and Steel
All very experienced, long time players. However, because the other 20-30 long time veteran players were not involved, they threw a hissy fit. You can't have a huge dev team otherwise you just have the same arguments but on a diff board.

The only way this will work is if the dev forums are hidden and require a PW. Then the group can collectively take ideas from the open forums and discuss it. Anyone not involved won't start crying that way because they won't know its actually going on.

Like terry used to do. He would start a suggestions topic then not reply or post, just take the best of the ideas and tell folks what was added once it was finished.

_________________

while blue has posted nothing on this forum on his MFO forum he said he is still working on the patch (after he said he was leaving)
http://www.mrfixitonline.com/viewtopic. ... ght=#89489

_________________
“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

People willing to test stuff would be the largest obstacle in all honesty. Just because of the shear amount of testing required.

_________________

Well while everyone is deciding what to do about doing nothing, while thinking about doing something in the future, i'm going to continue to play this mod and patch (and enjoy it). After all i'm not a veteran so my opinion doesn't count to Blue OR Lee apparently lol. Funny how things work isn't it?

Not being a veteran doesn't mean your opinion doesn't count. You take what I say the wrong way. Veterans simply have more experience and assumingly broader knowledge of HU. They have also been dedicated to the community for a long time. It's obvious if a dev team were created it would be composed of veterans. That's something even most new players would logically agree with.That doesn't mean if your new to the mod that you can't give good feedback or your opinion isn't as valued.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

I mean on my short list for the team I'd want Kramuti Abominae Pious Steel and Kev if he would be willing to sacrifice some time. It could then of course be expanded from there.

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Well atm discussing who's on the team isn't really relevant until we find out what's happening next. I am just putting the idea out there. I pmed mancer and told him to step up and do something. Logically he has to put someone else in Blues place and I know I keep repeating this but Blue still has not posted anything yet. No one knows if he's coming back or not yet. If he comes back saying he's ready to compromise well then the Dev team doesn't matter.. as the poll suggests moving on with a compromising blue. At the moment.. the only thing to do is wait a little more longer and go from there. There has to be some kind of confirmation that Blue is either IN or OUT.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Am i experiencing deja vu? Or did i just re read a 4 page topic on what to do next? Wasnt this discussed LAST week.. and actually on the games and channel the WEEK before that?

You guys are about as bad as Blizzard with your timeframes

This all seems eerily reminiscent, of when Onyx and Trevor left to create Aftermath.

Lee you seem very pro-Dev Team.. So why don't you start rounding up the team? Regardless of whether Blue returns or not, you should be setting in motion your own plans. If he returns then great lets find what he got right or wrong, If he doesn't then great we have the ball rolling.....Seems Win/Win to me

Well my only issue atm is waiting for Blue. Like I said.. I have a structured idea of how to set one up differently this time around. The main issue is what's the case with Blue? What if Blue posts willing to compromise after I structure a Dev team? That wouldn't be fair to Blue despite all the bad things he's done. I'm still willing to give him a chance. I think everyone else is as well. I sent out mancer a pm and may get a response but more than likely may not. I don't think he wants to get too involved in all of this.

I'll wait a few more days. I know everyone is fed up and wants to see some action and not all talk. We were all anticipating a patch and nothing will get accomplished if no one does anything.

I'd be willing to coordinate and help structure the dev team, however, I will not be on it. I have no desire for power or anything of that nature. I'm not out to take Blue's spot if anyone thinks so.I play this game and care about the community that plays it as well just like everything else. It's a great mod. Mancer did an amazing job.

I'll send Blue another PM .

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Greatest way to end the post ever IDK why it just made me

_________________

lol.. yeah I don't know why I threw that at the end. Kind of random.. just meant that I'd send another PM asking him to come back and compromise like I did the first time. lol

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

I'd personally give a shot Blue patch with maybe few quick changes to iron maiden, how, summons ar/dmg/ai, 2h wpns with higher res and who knows what more.

and of course set quest flags properly, change council quest to full flail in a3, set summoner quest flag in true tomb, any tp past glacial trail set to nihl quest.

Let Blue put he's fuckin patch on the server. If it's dumb we make our own patch or w/e.

I'll start working on a patch...
should be finished at the weekend, if you like the changes upload it to the servers, if you dont like it continue whining....

some things I plan to change:
-remove bonus for the first point in a mastery, instead of that I#l add a hard point synergy
-add magic pierce to AD
-slightly increased CB on Items

_________________
I need more Dropbox space, pls register using this referal link, so you and me get 500mb more space:
http://db.tt/sbpJWYD1

If youre starting on a patch anyway, how about implementing PureRage's suggestions?
See viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4275

At last good changes for barbarian.I like Purerage change log.

_________________
Out of darkness, out of mind,
Cast down into the Halls of the Blind.

let just let blue get finish with his shit, and lets take it from there......

And lets try to get the changes on RW and crafts suggested by the community implented:

New Rune words:
First 3 are shields, last 3 are claws only

Woe (Sur Lo Sol)
+2 to All Skills
Resist All +25%
+50-100% Enhanced Defense
+10 – 30 Energy
+500 Defense
5-10% Cold Absorb
+30% Increased Chance of Blocking
Level 10 Holy Freeze Aura when Equipped
Adds 250-500 Cold Damage
+6% to Magic Skill Damage
+6% to Cold Skill Damage
Damage Reduced by 10

Daylight (Sur Ohm Sol)
+2 to All Skills
Resist All +25%
+50-100% Enhanced Defense
+10 – 30 Energy
+500 Defense
5-10% Lightning Absorb
+30% Increased Chance of Blocking
Level 12 Holy Shock Aura when Equipped
Adds 1-1000 Lightning Damage
+6% to Magic Skill Damage
+6% to Lightning Skill Damage
Damage Reduced by 10

Victory (Ber Mal Sol Shael)
+2 to All Skills
Resist All +25%
+300-400% Enhanced Defense
5-10% Cold Absorb
90% Faster Block Rate
+30% Increased Chance of Blocking
Level 20 Might Aura when Equipped
Indestructible
Curse Duration Reduced by 6%
Magic Damage Reduced by 15
Damage Reduced by 10
10% Faster Run Walk

Madness (Dol Lum Tir)
+1-2 to Shadow Disciplines
20-25% Faster Cast Rate
-8-10% Enemy Magic Resists
Resist All +10%
+12 to Mana After Each Kill
+24 Life After Each Kill
+30 Energy
+60 to Mana

Deception (Mal Lum Tir)
+3 to Assasin Skill Levels
+30% Faster cast Rate
-15-20% Enemy Magic Resists
Resist All +10-15%
+12 to Mana After Each Kill
+30 Energy
+60 to Mana

Shadow of Doubt (Jah Lum Tir)
+3 to Assasin Skill Levels
+2 to Psychic Hammer
+2 to Mind Blast
+45% Faster cast Rate
-30% Enemy Magic Resists
Resist All +15%
+12 to Mana After Each Kill
+30 Energy
+60 to Mana

Crafts
Safety: PDR/MDR set to 4-6, 8-16 20-30
PDR/MDR on Armor 8-10, 12-20, 25-35
Armor %dmg reduced added 2-4, 8-10, 12-16
Starstone armor 50% chance of no-freeze
Absorbs Added: 1-2 3-4 5-6
Shield/amulet add res-all 5-10, 8-12,12-16%

Power belt – add deadly strike 3%, 3-5%, 7-10%
Power shields – add faster block rate 20-30, 40-50, 50-60%
Power shields – increase chance to block 10-15, 20-30, 30-40%
Power armor/gloves – add %Enhanced Damage 30-50, 70-120, 150-250
Power Weapons – add deadly strike 5-10,8-12,10-15%

Blood gloves – add small deadly strike 3%, 3-5%, 7-10%
Blood boots/belts – increase open wounds % 30-40,50-60,70-80%
Blood boots/belts – increase life returned on Moonstone 20-30 (old) 30-40
Blood helms – add small deadly strike 3%, 3-5%, 7-10%

Caster weapons +1 to all skills, 2 skills (moonstone)
Caster armor +1 to all skills, 1-2 skills (moonstone)
Caster gloves/shields +1 to all skills
Caster weapons remove %ED

Skull crafts: increased %ED on starstone/moonstone items. 70-100%, 90-160%
Holy rings, prayer removed –magic res added 2-4,4-8,8-12%
Holy Amulets, meditation replaced with prayer 2-6, 8-10,12-16

Ow and to make magic sins playable, removal of conversion from mindblast ofc.

+1. it's not like Blue said he quit.

but he left...

_________________
I need more Dropbox space, pls register using this referal link, so you and me get 500mb more space:
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when? post to that?

I think it would be easier to go back to Terrys last patch and tweek that.. The problems with this latest patch are unreal.. Plus it would save more time just adding to that patch with less fix's then this one with many.. Just my idea.. Cheers

_________________
P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

Should go to Terry's last patch with a ladder reset and some advertising to get the community built up a bit more.

This new season will give us time to figure out what the hell to do in this situation. But of course, we'll need Terry/DUFF to authorize such a scheme

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Oh dear god, why me?
This mother fucker hits hard
I'm out of cooldowns

He never said he left.

And ppl know that he works on the patch!

Lets just let blue get his patch done, and lets see how it ends up.

If then ppl see that changes are needed, then we can take action.

Lets just let blue get his patch done, and lets see how it fails one more time.

_________________
Out of darkness, out of mind,
Cast down into the Halls of the Blind.

Blue don't give a fuck about this game anymore.Get over it.Maybe now he will join online in 1 day.

_________________
Out of darkness, out of mind,
Cast down into the Halls of the Blind.

Anyone have a copy of 1.21 ( Terrys last patch )?? Thought I might have burned it onto a disc but couldn't seem to find it..

_________________
P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

pls no 1.21 as a base... We don't need reset and again beta test patch for next 3 weeks. Small changes to 1.3 and we can test for now.

Wait for Blues patch, should be comming up soon?

The removal of skillers regardless of personal opinion was A GOOD IDEA. Inventories are too big for that. Off-topic but whatever. Wait for Blue it's not that difficult a concept to understand.

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Well thats fine .. I'm just not big on that pally idea giving him 6 points each lvl... Psn cloud needs to come back for the psn striker...Nerfing oak is a bad idea to to the chars in group that needed the added life verse there res( 2 handed wep holders comes to mind here).. Cb needs alittle buff..Amp needs abit of buff...Cool down on CE needs work..Phy res on boss's in nm hell need looking at..Oblivion rw needs some love to make it usefull.... Res needs buff on 2 handed weps and a bit the way around on gear... Sorb's are fine..Counters on boss's need looking at..
These are just some of the changes that I would like to see ..I know some of wich are in the works with the Blues patch...

Would really like to get an up to date dev team going for the stait that Hu is in atm..Cheers guys lets keep the talking going

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P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

I urge everyone to wait until Friday before taking any sort of action. Blue said in his last thread he would be gone a few days and it has been nearly 3 weeks since. I've tried to contact him and if he does not respond by then I presume he may have no intent to continue given the negative responses by the community.

Since I was a part of the infamous dev team made to form this patch I feel responsible for some of the mistakes that have happened this time around. Should the community be responsible for a new patch these errors will not happen again.

We all were man .. Some of mine with amp were to much... But ya I agree 100% give it till the end of the week... Lets see what happens before we all get to haste...

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P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

As blue posted on other forum :

Re: Official D2SE AfterMath plugin? posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:57 am

Currently, i am working on a new patch 1.3b - so the timing should work out fairly well.

So he is working on it atm, and has not been away for 3 weeks..

http://www.mrfixitonline.com/viewtopic.php?t=12170&sid=6af67b350fff1f20023b467794636a1c

Here's what I'll do if no response by blue on Friday. I'm going to structure and put together a Dev team via PM. They will meet somewhere else and put together a simple patch (similar to Blues) and I will ask politely for Kevin to mod it.

That is the best solution at the moment. For one, random people putting out patches that don't have any notable reputation in the community = fail.

Two, all of us can trust Kevin modding it.

Three, it shouldn't take veteran players long to agree on a patch due to the instability in this community at the moment. Things are getting out of control.

We've been waiting for a patch so this is a temporary solution. I'm not proposing a dev team will work in the future but for now this should be done to accomplish what we want.

Blue said a few days and hasn't made a single post on these forums in a few weeks. Despite his posts on AM that is pretty fucking childish of him. He's posting on another forum but can't take any time to post here to let anyone know what's going on? It's been six days since he posted there. The 'negativity' is continuing to grow due to his attitude. In his position, he should have at least posted here letting everyone know what's going on. Is he coming back to compromise? Or is he building the same stupid patch that most of us didn't want anyway? 3% oak 6stat paladins.

I can wait until Friday. That's reasonable enough but after that I'll form that team. They will put together a similar balancing patch. And in the mean time a permanent solution can be found for the future of HU. That is the best and safest way to go about this. As I said before.. random people putting up patches with no veteran status etc. in the community = fail.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

ALL HELL YA?? backing this 100 +

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P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

This "dev" team structure didn't work last time, why will it now? Was Blue really the only reason it didn't work?

How's about to get something out, you revert to previous patch and tone down what blue did. By now you should be able to figure out where each part failed.

dev boards being private and invites via pms will prevent a lot of the nonsense that was seen around here last go around.

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

A dev board will be much more successful than what we currently had. One arrogant man who did whatever the fuck he wanted without any fear of repercussion? What good did that do for the community? There is now little support for Blue and that support dwindles as time passes.

You can see from this poll and even the last that support for Blue is fading away. He stuck on two extremes so he can't compromise. One he feels "Everyone knows much more than he does so go build your own patch." Or the other "I know everything and no one knows anything." There is no in between for Blue. There is no where to compromise.

The fact of the matter is simple. Blue wasn't the man for this job to do it alone. There are a few people who could do it alone but Blue wasn't the one. Why? Based on his gameplay experience and his actual real time valuable knowledge of the game. He failed horrendously on these two aspects. That's where the community comes in! But blue refused to let the community in and continued to do what only he felt was best for the game.

A man that arrogant has no right to be modding.

A dev team prevents that kind of arrogance and as it will be composed of experience veterans with far more gameplay knowledge and experience as Blue well.. the result is obvious.

The community can expect much better balanced patches, new content etc.

Or

We can wait for Blue to build the patch that caused all this controversy to begin with. The same patch that initiated two polls to remove or move on without Blue. The same patch that the community that has basically begged and pleaded with Blue to compromise on.

It doesn't make any sense to me. Does it make sense to you?

Now if Blue compromised well we can expect the same thing we'd get out of the Dev team, right? So isn't blue compromising JUST as suitable as a solution? Blue has till friday. If he cares any about his position he will make a compromising post. Everyone is tired of waiting. It's been three+ weeks and isn't that pushing it for a community that's already fed up? Were doing Blue the favor.. and still not a word from him.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Last time I modded stuff here i got blamed for everything and ended up just leaving after being treated like some kinda terrorist. Thanks for the offer but i'd rather not deal with it again.

I'll answer questions on how to do stuff etc. but nothing more active than that. I also have my own patch to add as much as I can too by this weekend too, so time is also a factor.

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This!

Lets wait for blue to finish his shit

i'd rather play 1.21 than some magical land where paladins gain 6 stats per lvl because block is difficult to achieve. wait, what?

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

tldr: rage and pious make some very educated responses. Don't brush them off so readily. Keep your expectations in check.

Purerage has noted some of the following in previous posts, but it still seems that an overly optimistic of how simple it is to form a good team and get the implementation done is starting to come forth.

As for actually, having a dev team. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't. As soon as a private forum was suggested last time, some folks got their panties in a wad because they were not chosen. It will happen again, no matter who you select. Then when another, structured forum was made more ranting and raging ensued, and much of it had absolutely nothing to do with what changes were being made. This is why some people feel that they ended up being ignored the last time...at some point, do to the lunacy, they had to be or nothing would have been done at all.

Though we can agree that there were some unintended consequences, and some changes were not perfect (or even good), this road to the current hell was paved with good intentions. The current state is not simply because the team was inept. You know who was on it by now, and you also know who did a lot of the actual implementation. It was NOT just run by Blue. He actually listened, and took other people's thoughts into consideration, though you may think otherwise. (I personally spoke up on several issues dealing with overall design and sometimes on a balance issue where I felt like I knew enough to reasonably argue a point. I was never treated like a buffoon by him, pious, purerage, steel, or brevan, yet the common consensus was that these other quite respected players were all completely inept). The blame can be laid at all of our feet.

If a new team is chosen, know that nothing will be perfect. Outright booboos will happen. Oversights very well may occur. People will need to keep their expectations at a reasonable level, or the clusterfuck of a time that the team had last time will repeat itself.

This is why Purerage is (rightly) wary of putting the suggestions into playing form. He's well respected now. He was then. Yet he was still subjected to a shitstorm from others. Does anybody think your fellow forumites have actually done an about face of their entire psyche?

Also, the idea that a bunch of randoms are actually going to take the time to try to make needed changes is honestly ludicrous. There are like 10 people max that have the knowledge and the time to actually do it. Even less are willing to actually do it. It's easy enough to put together a seemingly reasonable changelog. It's a different beast to get them done to (most) everyone's satisfaction.

Like Pious said, there were definitely some things that should have gone smoother. All of us (on the team and not) have learned from that experience. When (seemingly) Lee will give it a go on putting a team together, you should at least consider consulting with those that survived the last shitblizzard (anybody know that reference?)...maybe this will be moot by Friday. Guess we'll just have to wait a bit more.

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The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos

Well that's a disappointment. You offered to help previously. Don't know what changed between then and now.

That's fine though. Baerk will be the replacement of Kevin for this patch as the head modder. He has experience and is very trustworthy and respectable in the community.

I was worried that Kevin wouldn't do it because he has his own mod etc. so it's good Baerk was contacted and stated he could mod if Kevin couldn't

Again assuming Blue doesn't post by Friday.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

As far how successful this Dev team is. I am the one forming it. I am the one taking the time and responsibility to make sure it works. Why are you worried about whether it fails or succeeds? It's all on my ass if it doesn't work. I am putting my ass on the line for the community. If this Dev team isn't successful then I will take ALL the blame.

I said I had a plan. A structure to ensure this dev team will be successful. The goal for the patch is simple. We aren't doing such in depth changes that were going to face a no body can agree crisis.

As far people not being chosen. If there wants to be childishness in the community at at time like this then that's on them. The people chosen are ALL veteran players with extensive experience and game play knowledge. Tell me, what would qualify anyone else to be on a Dev team? I don't think we have so many kids on these forums. There may be a few upset people but on a larger scale there isn't going to be an issue.

I do agree to an extent with what you say. I just don't doubt my ability to make this successful. The structure I am setting up is very organized and will make sure that WORK is getting done and not just arguing, bickering etc.
I am sick and tired like most of the community. I'm not interested in creating a Dev team who doesn't accomplish anything. It's time to actually do something. There has been too much talk.

This isn't going to be like the last Dev team. I wasn't even sure how it operated but I know part of the failure was that it took so long to actually implement anything.

I'm not going to discuss the format or anything until Friday as I have no idea what Blue is thinking at the moment. He may be writing a compromising post as we speak, who knows?

Just because something has failed before doesn't mean it will always fail. If the idea is the same but the structure changes then results will differ. It's as simple as that.

As far as the people who are willing to be a part of the team. It's up to them. I know there are people willing to do it with veteran status in the community and many may not be willing.

It's a time sacrifice and it takes work. People just want to play, I understand that.

I'm not expecting this to be easy. I'm expecting there will be some challenges at first but I believe I can help make this team workable.

I'm doing this for the community. There is nothing to gain here. No power or anything.

Like I said. If this doesn't work. It's my ASS. Not your ass but mine. Trust me.. after mistakes I've made in the past long ago I have no desire of repeating similar mishaps.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Well things have changed. A new plan will be initiated on Friday if blue doesn't show up. Expect a post but not from me. There will not be any Dev team in the event Blue doesn't come back. Just added a heads up.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

hahhahahahahahahahah <3 invader zim. Gir is ze best!

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Its always in the last place you look....

Lee, please don't take what was I wrote as a personal attack. All I was really trying to get across was to plan for the worse, and hope (and aim) for the best.

Interested to see what happens on/before Friday

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The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos

It will happen nothing.

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Out of darkness, out of mind,
Cast down into the Halls of the Blind.

Well Blue is back so I guess we're looking at his patch now. I pray to the HU Heavens that he compromised on the Oak change. Or all this hell is going to come back soon again.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

He messaged you or something?

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Trolling LockDown since 14/01/2012.

Go to the 'home made modifications' forum and look @ Pious post. Blue post in there.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

ahh, ok! cool

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Trolling LockDown since 14/01/2012.

is the oak nerf really that big of a deal?

will the oak nerf do anything to fix the imbalance that we are currently facing?

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

For HC yeah I'd say its a very big deal. That oak probably is counted on as extra life buffer to help survive lag. If I'm not mistaken a HCer on the AM forum even once went as far as calling life one of the golden mods. Taking away near half the boost ramp of the premier party life buff is a very big deal in my eyes.

And as Zikur pointed out... would it really even fix the caster and summon domination? I don't think so... would just make it worse.

If you are as crappy at the game as Lee is, then yes - it is a big deal and will probably cost him a few characters.

For other people though, it will make the game more challenging and balance out the life differential between melee characters with inherent life buffs (inc stamina, lycanthropy, stat boosts) and caster characters who rely on castable life boosts (oak from rings, BO from items). Wielding the significant power of a caster will incur a reduction in life - less noticeable at early levels and some what more noticeable at later levels.

It is a small adjustment though and will not have the earth shattering effects that doomsday folks here shout about. I am very familiar with the importance of life and have run the numbers on this adjustment.

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People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

Whats the deal with pally getting an extra point? They don't need anything extra ... Geez they have some of the best rws gear ex...
And really if they need a extra point then you simply can't play one..
Lmao nerfing oak and the pally is the only one that don't suffer much do to the extra stat point ..
If your going to nerf oak make every class have an extra point seems only fair..

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P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

My pally has 7.6k base life and he has 180 base str and 80 or so dex. They don't need the point

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He ran some tests on norm with newbies using all vita 0 str 0 dex on dins and realized that they need an extra point. It's simple. Like 2 perf emeralds give enough dex to maintain good 70% block for early lvls but who cares. First nerf str/dex from melee gear then not knowing how to balance builds add 1 point that will be only problematic.
Also it doesn't matter that Oak nerf will affect some of the melee chars early, so I expect 7 stat points to paladins and 6 to amazons next update.

LOL...

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P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

when you're as crappy at this game as blue is: then yes they do need the point because he cant block on a character with a skill designed to help you do just that.
edit : did blue even read this poll topic?

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

what about pallys who arent using 2 zod runewords, and the highest tiered uniques?

hell is a hard place. Zod runewords were added for some reason. If you can't afford good gear you must use what you can not cheesy 6 stat point builds.
7.6k hp isn't needed my bone nec... oh wait.

I have 4.8k Base without the War on. Using a Tyraels with 4x Blood stones I have 6.5k Base Health.

Base 4.8k
Tyraels w/o BO 6.5k
Tyraels /w lvl 17 Bo 8.1k
War w/o Bo 7.6k
War w Bo 9.3k

1.2k HP swing with the best end game armor besides War.
185 Str
107 Dex
273 Vita

I put way too much into Dex and could get away with 10-15 points less into it. The main problem is when I go to bosses I have to pull out 8 120 AR Gcs from the cube because it's an 80 point build leaving little room for Zeal and Holy Shield. Hell Hammers should be taken down to a 60 point to.

Tho I doubt anyone would use a 221 Life Blood Ring and a 600 AR Power ring over 2x Ele rings so my build may be a bit different than what other people would do.

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According to blue they need the point because hes too stupid to figure out how to achieve block mid game other then by adding some magical extra stat point to paladins and then making his supporting argument by stating "They are truly blessed by the Heavens." Read his patch notes. Blue = fail.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

Then why on earth aren't you nerfing BO??? Seriously blue..nerfing oak is worthless, if you arent gonna account for the 100 BO bots that people use.

Thats a shit load of high stre/dex. Now imagine with 100 extra stat pts that would go towards all life.

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"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."

40 of the strength spent was for a pretty sword.

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