Login | Register


All times are UTC - 5 hours


It is currently Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:36 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 103 posts ] 

What adjustment do you think is best?
Remove these runewords from the ladder - this will delete them from people's inventory. 17%  17%  [ 9 ]
Don't delete them from people, gimp any new Armageddons and Valors that are made. 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
Leave them alone and just fix it with the next reset. 77%  77%  [ 40 ]
Total votes : 52
Author Message
 Post subject: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 5:26 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
I would like to hear what people think on this topic.

I can change the rune order and that will delete all copies of these runewords that are out there on the realm. People will lose the zod and other high runes that they used and will never get them back.

Or I can lower the values on the runewords which will NOT effect currently made runewords and will only impact newly made items.

Or I can just leave them alone and deal with it during the next reset.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 5:46 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
Actually there's no 90-92lvl dru-ele wpn. Leave it be, change fire/cold mastery to +30% fire/cold skill and maybe introduce new RWs (one of unused list, no need server side for that) that will give huge +tornado/war cry as a phys alternative. Now no ones use horizon, noobs think that hurricane is too good (like it wasn't before lol), tornado without a good amp is useless - on hell. Vote 2.
Windy druid will always be my favorite(next to fire ofc), I raped hell baal and solo LoS last ladder just to hear now that Valor somehow made him too good ;-).


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:14 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:32 pm
Posts: 60
Leave them alone thanks. you dont have to nerf EVERYTHING.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 526
should prolly remove them. anyone who doesn't think they are broken OP has no idea of what ballance is. sure some people will lose a zodword but they are awful runewords. lets face it, adding them was a mistake.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:59 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
Pious wrote:
anyone who doesn't think they are broken OP has no idea of what ballance is
FUI there's no option like "leave them unchanged" so dunno wtf are you referring to. F/C mastery should be removed, not entire RWs.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 7:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 282
zzzz

_________________
Lee is a fucking moron.


Last edited by Imperial on Mon May 16, 2011 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 7:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 526
Steel wrote:
Pious wrote:
anyone who doesn't think they are broken OP has no idea of what ballance is
FUI there's no option like "leave them unchanged" so dunno wtf are you referring to. F/C mastery should be removed, not entire RWs.


all the more reason to get rid of them now since we can agree that they are busted. unless you want to savor them for a bit longer?


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 7:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
The only major problem I have with removing the RW from the ladder is that the Zod will not be compensated and that doesn't seem fair in my opinion. For most players....( most ) Zod is not an easy rune to get. If there could be compensation for the Zod I'd agree with removing them.

They are over powered, period. At the same time, how many people are going to lose a Zod? If Zod can't be compensated then choices 2 and 3 are better IMO.

If my 99 Druid was alive I would have lost 2 zods and a jah. I'm sure many players on SC would lose two zods as well and that's kinda huge.

If compensation can be done I'd say remove them asap. They are very OP.

I think my opinion is very logical and fair so yeah.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 7:35 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 526
thats fine lee if it does get deleted i'll give you the zod i was gonna use to make valor for my barb. i wouldn't stand behind getting rid of them if i didn't think it they were broken.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 7:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
Yeah I agree. I don't want to take your Zod though. I have 2 Zod 2 cham. I don't think It'd be a major issue for me. I am just thinking on behalf of the rest of the community. Not everyone is as lucky, plays as much etc. I think Zod will hurt a lot more ppl than myself. I realize they are broken as well. I was one of the first to come out and say they are extremely OP.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:18 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:32 pm
Posts: 60
yea if you are going to do anything, WAIT until the next wipe to get rid of it, causw this is ullshit for those of us who have it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:54 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
maybe make them require another rune at the end, folks can just stick another socket in their weap and dump the last rune in it. I'm not sure if that will ruin the item or not, would have to check on sp and find out.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:19 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
A poll was a bad idea for this I think. Most people are going to be bias because they have the weapon and ignore the fact it's completely over powered and vote the 3rd option.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:21 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
PureRage-DoD wrote:
maybe make them require another rune at the end, folks can just stick another socket in their weap and dump the last rune in it. I'm not sure if that will ruin the item or not, would have to check on sp and find out.

when i tested, any adjustment to the runes would simply wipe the item out.

For example - if the word is "Tal Eth Tal" and you change it to "Tal Um Tal" in the txt files your previous item goes POOF.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:20 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
That woulda been cool if you coulda added a 2nd zod. That would be one hell of hard weapon to make lol

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:50 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
Lee wrote:
A poll was a bad idea for this I think. Most people are going to be bias because they have the weapon and ignore the fact it's completely over powered and vote the 3rd option.


100% right. Half the folk voting aren't interested in a hard game anyway. If they were, they wouldn't be using it in the first place. People will do anything to hold on to their imba items for as long as possible. ;)

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:39 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Lee wrote:
A poll was a bad idea for this I think. Most people are going to be bias because they have the weapon and ignore the fact it's completely over powered and vote the 3rd option.


100% right. Half the folk voting aren't interested in a hard game anyway. If they were, they wouldn't be using it in the first place. People will do anything to hold on to their imba items for as long as possible. ;)

bah - and people give me shit about not letting the community voice their opinion.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:47 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
Quote:
For example - if the word is "Tal Eth Tal" and you change it to "Tal Um Tal" in the txt files your previous item goes POOF.
So if Armg was changed to diff combination and new rw added with the same rune order as armg, would that also remove the item completely? Guess switching RWs isn't simple. I'll check it.
Edit: well, switching runes changes only a name, stats stays untouched.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:57 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
did you use the skill ID's for the runewrods or the skill names? If you used the skill name, you can move cold and fire mastery to a new line at the bottom and change them to cap at 30% or whatever. Then add a 1 to the end of the original fire and cold mastery. If you used the skill ID's instead of the name it will be harder to fix but still possible with some skill moving and renaming.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
Posts: 971
Just leave them alone, they're not even the beginning of the most problematic builds either way. Destroying the items would do little but piss more people off, and it wouldn't even fix the balance issues. It would simply make a lot of viable builds that actually add flavor to the current poison/fire metagame and take them off the map.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
blue_myriddn wrote:
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Lee wrote:
A poll was a bad idea for this I think. Most people are going to be bias because they have the weapon and ignore the fact it's completely over powered and vote the 3rd option.


100% right. Half the folk voting aren't interested in a hard game anyway. If they were, they wouldn't be using it in the first place. People will do anything to hold on to their imba items for as long as possible. ;)

bah - and people give me shit about not letting the community voice their opinion.


Yeah.. I hope you weren't implying me here. I never once told you to listen to the entire community. I in fact stated and implied several times on the forums that listening to the 'entire' community would be a mistake. Pick and choose wisely. That has always been my perception. You lack balance. You are on both ends. 1) It's all about BLUE! 2) Lets get the "ENTIRE" communities opinion. Half the people here don't care about 'balance.'

In fact.. posting a poll here just shows how flawed your logic is. Did you wholeheartedly expect a peaceful discussion with honest opinions?

It's as if a billionaire accidentally hands out a hundred million dollars and then he asks those hundred people to take a survey.

1) I can let you keep the money.
2) We can donate it to charity.
3) I take it all back.

I know the analogy is extreme but the idea is the same. People have a runeword that allows them to rape everything, farm easy and makes their character Godly. You can't expect reasonable and logical responses from them.

Zod compensation isn't even a issue if people won't admit the runeword is overpowered why should they get their zod back? Standing behind something so ridiculously op is pretty sad.

If I were you Mr. Blue I'd ignore this poll and remove the item. Let's see what you do. No disappointment if there are no expectations.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Last edited by Lee on Tue May 17, 2011 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:54 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
Angel wrote:
Just leave them alone, they're not even the beginning of the most problematic builds either way. Destroying the items would do little but piss more people off, and it wouldn't even fix the balance issues. It would simply make a lot of viable builds that actually add flavor to the current poison/fire metagame and take them off the map.


Listen to yourself for a second. It wouldn't even fix balance issues? Valor and Armageddon are the two most over powered items in the entire game. They double your damage. You can't have balance in an item that DOUBLES your damage. Removing them would fix A LOT of balance issues. Sorc masteries belong on a sorc and a sorc alone. My 101 Druid on HC does 121k Armageddon and 86k Fstorm with over 100% pierce. I can kill Hell Baal faster than you can kill a Hell Fallen.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 5:53 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 734
Giving mastery oskills out is just wrong. The hurricane druid was a perfectly viable build last patch before there was a mastery. The fire druid was a bit lacking, but there were plenty of changes made to the skills themselves (aka increasing splash radius on geddon). These two seem to be the most beneficial, however these runewords would most likely be too strong on other characters as well (example: holy fire/freeze zealadins).

Sure this isnt the only balance issue, but this is making characters MUCH stronger than they are supposed to be. This is a quick fix and needs to be done.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:37 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:32 pm
Posts: 60
give them +30 and -30 enemy

id be happy with that :P


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
+1 to Skyla. I agree with that... that sounds much more balanced.

Two patches?

!st patch, wipe them all out.

2nd - institute new changes -30% +30% dmg

sounds good to me

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:48 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:32 pm
Posts: 60
i dont know if you are being sarcastic or not, silly asian boy

for a zod rune word there needs to be some more there then just a plain +30 if they are taking away the oskill. Just my opinion!


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
Wtf? I was being serious. I wasn't being sarcastic. Your suggestion sounds balanced to me.

Everything else on the item stays the same just remove the oskill mast
And bump the -25 to -30 and add 30% dmg.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:32 pm
Posts: 60
will our runes be refunded? if we can provide proof ahead of time Blue?

im on and off again this ladder so havent accumulated a high net worth of high runes yet. losing a Zod and Jah will be detrimental to me :P


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:26 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
blue_myriddn wrote:
People will lose the zod and other high runes that they used and will never get them back.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:37 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
Even if you have to lose your runes.. it's for the sake of balancing the game. It's a sacrifice for the better.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 1:28 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
Lee wrote:
Even if you have to lose your runes.. it's for the sake of balancing the game. It's a sacrifice for the better.
Now it will change nothing tbh. PPL that use it already have 99lvl, what do you want to balance with that? As untwinked fire druid with armg made before meph(well, 2nd week this ladder) at least I was able to kill meph, it was still hard. Changing it to something different for new guys would be better. But guess as I'm in minority as I voted 2 ;/.
It's not like we are removing tstrokes from PSNamas because it has +5,-20 and 3 sockets...


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:39 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
Steel wrote:
Lee wrote:
Even if you have to lose your runes.. it's for the sake of balancing the game. It's a sacrifice for the better.
Now it will change nothing tbh. PPL that use it already have 99lvl, what do you want to balance with that? As untwinked fire druid with armg made before meph(well, 2nd week this ladder) at least I was able to kill meph, it was still hard. Changing it to something different for new guys would be better. But guess as I'm in minority as I voted 2 ;/.
It's not like we are removing tstrokes from PSNamas because it has +5,-20 and 3 sockets...


The same reason Blue is nerfing poison builds by giving bosses poison abs, fixing physical resistance and adjusting boss magic absorb. Blue is trying to BALANCE the game. The zod runewords HAVE NO balance in this game, PERIOD. You can't justify 100k armageddon and 86k fstorm, PERIOD. The same goes for other builds which utilize the oskill masteries. If we use your logic then why balance anything? Why fix melees, why nerf poison? Let's just keep everything the way it is. You make no sense at all.

I have the Zod runeword. I have a level 101 char that used it. I know how OVER powered it is. It needs to be removed. Anyone who argues other wise should be banned from giving their opinion on balance here, forever. An individual with a bias opinion does nothing good for the overall balance of the mod.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:32 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
cool, we all agree that this needs to be changed just we have diff opinions how/when.Personally I'd suck for me to lose even a lenymo - I haven't done anything wrong so why I'm losing it. Balancing is cool - adding psn abs won't remove anything, won't require ppl do new stuff, same for phys removal. Removing of zod rw will lead to a shit storm over forums and firedruids will perform amazing with any other rw anyway - they still lack any end game uniq wpn
PS. you play HC so death and losing stuff isn't new to you YET when you lost 99 druid you were mad, even posted on forums that you were done for a month or so. Yeah it's just a game.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:27 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 1674
I can't comment on how overpowered they are since I am poor and do not possess a zod, but it's true SC players will probably be more upset about losing their cherished item than a HC player since thats the land we breath in lol. It wouldn't affect me much (besides Lee not being able to kill bosses for me in .2 seconds lol), but I think it still would suck to lose a zod for those who invested in it, which is why I voted #3, unless there was a way to compensate them, which I understand there is not. For people like Delta who have found 1 zod (afaik) and invested it to an Armageddon, it will hurt the worst since he could have went for a War instead and he'll be losing his best item that pretty much makes his Druid.

Props to Blue for taking action to balance the game regardless of the decision, much appreciated

_________________
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Cowards die in shame, I ain't afraid to lose a char, it's not like it's important. :lol:


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:43 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:32 pm
Posts: 60
blue_myriddn wrote:
blue_myriddn wrote:
People will lose the zod and other high runes that they used and will never get them back.



in that case dont tuoch the runeword til you are going to have a reset then.

Thats just not fair taking away someones runes without reinbursement. I am all for changing it, but not at the rate of losing something i worked hard for in the first place. By doing that you are going to piss off half the community, because most of us have either a Valor or Armageddon.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:15 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
wait, i must have had a complete brain fart. This can be fixed easily and the words could even be left as they are.

I can simply change the calc for the "passive_fire_mastery" and "passive_cold_mastery" stats on those masteries

Stat = The offending stats above
calc = (blvl>=1)?(ln12:30)

That formula asks:
Is the base level of this skill greater than or equal to 1? If yes use a linear progression of par1 and 2. If no, grant 30% fire skill damage.

Problem solved

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:44 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
going to piss them off by gimping it too - most people made the item b/c they heard it was OP and wanted to use it to farm items. I pretty much count on pissing at least someone off no matter what I do.

Cool stuff PureRage, sounds good! (even if I don't know how it works) ;)

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:45 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
its basically changing the calculation for the fire mastery stat and adding a conditional to it. If there is a hard point in the skill, it acts like normal. If there are no hard points in it, it grants a flat 30% to fire mastery.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
blue_myriddn wrote:
going to piss them off by gimping it too - most people made the item b/c they heard it was OP and wanted to use it to farm items. I pretty much count on pissing at least someone off no matter what I do.

Cool stuff PureRage, sounds good! (even if I don't know how it works) ;)


Ah.. shit I apologize. I misunderstood your post. I made the wrong interpretation. Your gimping it to balance it. I thought you were going to bash it into something really shitty.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:13 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:16 am
Posts: 90
delete them, and make vengeance runeword to have 80% ias


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:07 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
PureRage your change will have an effect on current runewords, correct? It won't just change new ones, right?

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:27 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
It will effect current runewords too. The oskill masterys will give a +30% fire damage flat.

It could be changed to get 25% + 1% per level for the oskills. It's very flexible.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:50 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
Ah nice. Someone on the realm thought you couldn't change the current runewords. It will have no effect on sorcs though right?

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:42 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
it wont be changing the runeword, just the skill.
(blvl>=1)?ln12:ln34

(blvl>=1)? - is base level equal to or greater than 1?
ln12:ln34 - if yes use par 1 and 2 for the gains : if no use par 3 and 4 for the gains

just set par 1 and 2 to the regular progression and par 3 and 4 to the nerfed amount for the runewords (25% +1% per level would be ok i think)

It would effect sorcs until they put 1 point into the skill. With at least 1 hard point, the gains remain the same. With no hard points, the gains are 25 +1% per extra soft level.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:32 pm
Posts: 60
PureRage-DoD wrote:
It will effect current runewords too. The oskill masterys will give a +30% fire damage flat.

It could be changed to get 25% + 1% per level for the oskills. It's very flexible.


30%

+1% per skill

AND

-30%

that be hot <3


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
25% 1% per level is pushing it enough as it is. 30%? and -5% increase in pierce? Too much man.

25% -25 +1% per OSKILL level is as balanced as it could be.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 2:00 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
Armageddon/Valor already has -25% f/c res on it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:10 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:37 pm
Posts: 35
Buff armagedon and valor , give them +30 to all skills and fucking remove the barbarian from the selection of characters because barbarian is only good for bo, so delete the barbarian and all skills like iron skin natural resistances bo shout .....
This will make the game ''hard''.

_________________
Out of darkness, out of mind,
Cast down into the Halls of the Blind.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:19 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
productive post, thanks.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:32 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 282
someone give rammstein a tissue.

_________________
Lee is a fucking moron.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:43 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
Image

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 1:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Image


LOL

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:14 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:41 pm
Posts: 232
So I have to Chime in on this. I only play hc so understand that is where my perspective comes from. Right now there are very few hc players on. There is really only one group consisting of very experienced players that have chars I would describe as op. I luckily found a zod and was able to make a druid. He doesnt have an inv full of small 20 lifers or even an ani (only one group has killed baal). Because I dont have op stuff I maxed Lycan for my fire druid. He does decent and the geddon runeword made him able to kill decent. I don't have 100k geddon. Mine is at 43k. I think that elite runeword gave my druid the boost to become a decent char. IF you are completely twinked out like Lee's druid then ofc that player is op and will kill insanely fast. But note that is one person. I worked hard to get my druid built and with some luck a zod made him decent. At least now I can work together with other builds and kill as a 2-3 man team bosses in hell without all of us being poison. If you nerf this now after all the time and effort to build, you will diminish the "opness" of Lee and his team, but you will seriously crush the achievements of the few hc chars that remain. You nerf this and pois then it just wont be feasible to move forward without the help of a large team (which hc cant really support) or some super op'ed freinds (which have their own lofty goals to achieve, i.e. killing los nec). These runewords and the changes were put in by you blue. It is unfair for you to change the rules of the game a few months in. If its too easy for sc people well wtf isnt that what they want by playin sc? I know people will disagree with me but I hope those people look at it from my perspective.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 977
why would a sorc use valor or geddon RWs?


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:04 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
Quote:
If its too easy for sc people well wtf isnt that what they want by playin sc? I know people will disagree with me but I hope those people look at it from my perspective.
whole discussion isn't about difficulty, it's about masteries. You still can die with those rw, they just provide too much regardless the price.

Valor seems too OP for some guys as hurricane does 360degree aoe dmg and require completely no skill from player. Armageddon seems less OP as you need to actually run and use firestorm - this is BAD, we LIKE not playing game, use poison over 9 secs and just stand near bosses! Keyword is "seems".


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 8:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 977
also i use valor my huri is 45k only lvl 97 though, but other wise near perf facets/gear and no shards yet though and not all synergised spent 10 in oak and up to bear


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 27
Lets see what the problems really are with masteries druids - It's not the runewords, it's the skills.

Hurricane with Valor is overpowered when it comes to clearing trashes. Not so on bosses.
Firestorm is Overpowered when it comes to clearing bosses. Very powerful even when clearing trashes but compensates for Armageddon.

Then take a look at the secondary skills of those skill trees!
Arctic blast - Mediocre at killing bosses - has to stand still to cast, almost impossible to use on moving targets ie. LoS. Or targets with interrupts/counters ie. Baal.
Armageddon - Mediocre at clearing trashes. Pretty poor at boss encounters.

IMO the problem doesn't lie in the runewords. They work well for different elemental builds and only make a part of them overpowered.
Armageddon for a fire druid isn't overpowered even with Armageddon runeword, same goes for cold druid who uses Arctic blast.
IMHO nerfing the runeword, at least for too much!!! is just triggering new problems like Arctic blast doing absolutely nothing and Armageddon not doing competitive damage.

Solution would be to have the runewords remain same but nerf the respective skills. This of course would have to be left for the next client side patch.
I would agree with lowering the masteries very slightly, but can't agree with anything that is too notable.
Don't kill my arctic blast/summon druid before it has been born!! :'(


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 9:43 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
Quote:
Solution would be to have the runewords remain same but nerf the respective skills. This of course would have to be left for the next client side patch.


yeh, so in order for the skills to actually be useful, you NEED a level 90 runeword.

wait...

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 10:48 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 977
no no, lets see where he's going with this.

_________________
“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 11:29 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 27
There's a lot truth into that, my bad totally. Of course those aren't totally useless. Hurricane without Valor clears decently, firestorm kills bosses (somehow).

Looking from that aspect the skills would definitely need some tweaking and the weapon a slight nerf. Guess the mod is designed to be played instead of rushed and having a character that is crippled before getting a zod weapon seems pretty lame, Oak is always great too but can't compliment the current barbarian in any way.

But part of the point still stands - before client side update you shouldn't touch the runeword too much, maybe tone it a little bit. Of course there will always be specs that aren't as viable as the others, and balancing the game is something very important. But still, the problem doesn't only lie in the runeword. Do also note that I haven't played this mod too much and I have no basis on how much you want characters doing damage.

When talking about these runewords, guess it's more about balancing druids because the other elemental builds don't seem to have gained that much attention.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 11:54 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 977
what the masteries do to druids dmg is broken.

_________________
“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:15 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 27
Ummmm. When it comes to cold druids, there are definitely quite many better trash clearers/boss killers.
Firestorm is probably over the top by a bigger marginal.

I have no idea what your concept of broken is nor whether you mean that it's broken that the weapon makes such a big chunk of a druid's damage or that druids with the runeword is broken. Hence replying for both claims.

The runeword definitely improves druid damage too much, as it provides over 50% of your damage.
However, I don't think druids with the runeword are broken as a character class, except for firestorm.

Maybe slightly too powerful but nowhere near broken.
As for why?
There are better boss killers, better trash killers and classes with more survivability(read amazon).
To me a druid, in general, is a jack of all trades and while oak is definitely a powerful life buff it also comes with the downside that the oak can die and is inferior to BO's in many senses.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:40 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 977
cold mastery and fire mastery do not function properly on non sorc classes as it is now. it is therefore broken.

_________________
“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:41 pm
Posts: 232
Zikur wrote:
cold mastery and fire mastery do not function properly on non sorc classes as it is now. it is therefore broken.


So just because it doesn't function properly by your calculations it is broken? You cant just say something is broken bc it doesnt fit or follow the parameters of another class. The fact is if someone wants to have op damage w a zod runeword on a druid and sacrifice life (lycan) by instead maxing another fire synergy, then I say ok. But then make the price they pay for sacrificing life higher. For example if they decide to max a 4th fire synergy have that negatively effect oak. There now its balanced. If you wanna have a killing machine fine, but you'll have less life. That makes more sense than destroying the runeword.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 8:25 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
Quote:
There are better boss killers, better trash killers and classes with more survivability(read amazon).


i wish folks would stop comparing everything to pois amazons, its not helping that everything is being compared to the currently extremely OP build and being called "bad" or "not OP" because of it.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:48 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 977
Delta wrote:
Zikur wrote:
cold mastery and fire mastery do not function properly on non sorc classes as it is now. it is therefore broken.


So just because it doesn't function properly by your calculations it is broken? You cant just say something is broken bc it doesnt fit or follow the parameters of another class. The fact is if someone wants to have op damage w a zod runeword on a druid and sacrifice life (lycan) by instead maxing another fire synergy, then I say ok. But then make the price they pay for sacrificing life higher. For example if they decide to max a 4th fire synergy have that negatively effect oak. There now its balanced. If you wanna have a killing machine fine, but you'll have less life. That makes more sense than destroying the runeword.

if 50% of ur dmg comes from said zod, there is an issue.

_________________
“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:47 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
so before 90lvl ele druids are bad, right?
Quote:
That makes more sense than destroying the runeword.
that makes no sense, ele druids were always 80 point builds, balancing it with just one item is wrong and stupid. Small boost by zod rw is ok, not that you can completely skip one of your skill.
Afraid of dying in bearform - play sc first then move to hc.
PS setting static 30%inc f/c won't destroy anything.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:03 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
Fire druids and cold druids were perfectly balanced for the zod rws. Blue actually instituted changes that balanced the fire druid. Too bad the Zod rws bashed the good he did. If they stay thetn purerages suggested modifications are probably best. I'd say 30% w/o the oskill 1% stuff. 30 - 25/ 30 - 30/ or 25 -25 1% per lvl isn't so bad I guess. ( i'm suggesting of the three above for changing it )

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:35 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 27
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Quote:
There are better boss killers, better trash killers and classes with more survivability(read amazon).


i wish folks would stop comparing everything to pois amazons, its not helping that everything is being compared to the currently extremely OP build and being called "bad" or "not OP" because of it.


Wish PureRage-Folk considered that there are some other builds that also do well on bosses and trashes. 2 Fire sorc builds for example do very well on bosses, actually the problem with bosses and other damage builds is the counters not damage, guess you already knew that.
I'm comparing druids damage on boss encounters to fire sorc builds, because no one seems to claim them overpowered and they are very viable.
Think about it for a while, how many builds are really viable boss killers? Fire sorcs, druids, poison builds, maybe a few others on top of that. All the other builds simply trigger way too many counters or do very slim damage.
As for trash clearing, Poizon is bellow average, over 20 skill builds utterly surpass poison amazons when it comes to clearing trashes.
Hurricane is like the 10th best skill to clear trashes, by far not the best...
As for survivability, pretty sure you're not nerfing decoy in any way or another.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:41 pm
Posts: 232
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Quote:
There are better boss killers, better trash killers and classes with more survivability(read amazon).


i wish folks would stop comparing everything to pois amazons, its not helping that everything is being compared to the currently extremely OP build and being called "bad" or "not OP" because of it.


I guess it would be easier if we came up with what defines a char being too "op" or what defines a char's damage as being "broken". Instead of everyone making it a term relative to themselves. Are there any parameters we can set so its easier to define excessive damage? I think this would at least help me to understand what we define as a balanced char also.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:47 am
Posts: 615
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Delta wrote:
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Quote:
There are better boss killers, better trash killers and classes with more survivability(read amazon).


i wish folks would stop comparing everything to pois amazons, its not helping that everything is being compared to the currently extremely OP build and being called "bad" or "not OP" because of it.


I guess it would be easier if we came up with what defines a char being too "op" or what defines a char's damage as being "broken". Instead of everyone making it a term relative to themselves. Are there any parameters we can set so its easier to define excessive damage? I think this would at least help me to understand what we define as a balanced char also.


I second that

_________________
Its always in the last place you look....


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 27
I third that, but we also have to take counters and survivability into consideration.

For example what makes poison amazon as overpowered as they're now isn't only the damage, but also the fact that it causes minimal amount of counters and DodgeStrategyDecoyValkyrie combination provides Amazon with the best survivability in the game, especially when soloing.

There're many builds that do maybe even more damage then poison amazon, like holyfire paladin, firetrap assasin etc. They just trigger so many counters that the whole party will be obliterated in a matter of few seconds, not to mention themselves.

Hence, we might as well define the following values altogether:
- low, mid, high and too high damage
- low, mid, high and too high survivability
- low, mid, high and too high numbers of counters

Of course comparing each build is going to take some time and effort, no builds should be too similar in matter of damage, survivability and counters distribution. However only defining what is too high damage is poor way of trying to balance a game.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:52 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 977
Steel wrote:
so before 90lvl ele druids are bad, right?

i never meant to seem like I thought they were bad, i was just trying to reinforce the point that what the zod rws do to the damage should not occur and is not normal.

_________________
“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:59 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 977
Is there a way to make a nhd for counters? so that 40 cant trigger per second type deal? that wouldnt affect any of the current powerhouse boss killers while increasing the potential for others with fast atks or orb/cb/traps/ele melee ect
Because trying to compare that chart the classes that proc the least counters will always be superior since ofc when you're dead your dps is 0.

_________________
“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:34 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
Zikur wrote:
Steel wrote:
so before 90lvl ele druids are bad, right?

i never meant to seem like I thought they were bad, i was just trying to reinforce the point that what the zod rws do to the damage should not occur and is not normal.
that was a sarcasm :P. I see that few ppl think that druids are pushovers till they get hands on that rws.

Ofc I can say that windy druids now are worse than before - that's due to lower amp and phys immune bosses. That alone push them to use only cold. It's almost the same reason why ppl are saying that counters are too strong - there are no barbs/shifters to provide BO/oak or take all the heat as phys res is too high. I've seen maybe 1 barb and Nedder's druid past 2 weeks.
Delta wrote:
I guess it would be easier if we came up with what defines a char being too "op" or what defines a char's damage as being "broken"
OP - does more damage than whole team. Broken - does no damage at all. Poisons are OP, Phys is broken. Magic is underpowered. Firestorm makes no counter and you can have higher dps than sorcs.

Yet from viable team boss killers - Bone nec,psn nec, summoners with amp/thorns, hammerdins, phoenix sins, trapsins (I've used cb traps vs nm baal no prob, just need to have a good team), dclaw sin with summoners, cold/fireclaw druids, tk sorcs, blizz sorcs, cold nova, fire/phys bowas till end of nm and many more - these chars can kill bosses in a team - you play HC, stop relying on BO bots and OP chars.

+ there are too much bashing about nothing. Firestorm now with full druid gear gives around 80-90% fire mast, idea is to change it to flat 30%.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:05 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 27
Viable boss killers - doesn't require healer + all health buffs, does not trigger ridiculous amount of counters while doing competitive damage which should equal to something at least relatively close to meteor sorc.
It's a fucked game design where your party needs all life buffs and a healer or two + 1000 pots to stay alive. 1 Blizzard for example, triggers 20 counters in 5 seconds or so, add a cb sinn spamming traps equals to something like 100 counters in 5 seconds, how is that viable (especially on encounters with global counters such as the boss in river of flame etc) - with 1 or 2 healers and all life buffs.... Sounds like a flawed design to me. What if you can't find a healer, what if you're missing a life buff, WHAT IF you're trying to kill hell encounters.................................... C'mon man.... Get real!

As I said earlier firestorm is over the top because it can be cast in bear form, triggers no counter and is not channeled, does way too much damage..... How about armageddon after the nerf, even more uncompetitive damage, guess fire druids are all about spamming firestorm though.

I would assume cold druids are also getting nerfed for some idiotic reason?
Hurricane is by far not the best trash clearer and arctic blast has to be channeled while standing still to do competitive damage, cannot be cast in bear form. While it triggers no counters it also has big downsides too. Does weak damage against moving bosses, interrupts and counters fucks you up big time and above all, Bear summon can hardly tank anything if you try to solo.
(This and armageddon getting nerfed because of firestorm is seriously pissing me off, you don't nerf all spells when one is overpowered... especially when the spell is that of another skill build) Nerfing valor(especially this one) and Armageddon while not buffing any respective skills that are affected by it but not deemed op is a piss poor way of doing things....

I don't even want to try hc, simply because I'm from EU, but also because you need a healer, an OB(over bored) tank not to mention oak + bo and preferably a party of friends to actually progress after nightmare (unless you roll a poison ama or an armageddon firedruid). I'm not playing diablo for chess experience, diablo 2 - even though mod should be fast paced to an extend at the very least....

EDIT: also have you guys ever though about the fact that A3 cold merc when balancing poison amazons? Up to half of their damage can come from the merc, counters? Np np, dodge everything, spam decoy and spam pots on merc because you don't need them for yourself, this is so much harder for other builds. Of course you need time rw, but this obviously proves that it's not all about the poison damage being too high, it's also about their survivability being too high to be able to sustain merc alive, even in some very counter heavy bosses. This has to be left for client-side patch though, I guess.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:41 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
I understand you but I can't agree with you. For example my blizz sorc has few diamonds in her gear and does ok vs heavy counter bosses, you need to tele and try to use it away from your team. Ofc for bosses like lazarus you should only use it when there is noone that melee him. On hell you should have at least one life buff, maxed and 3-4 teammates. Playing duo and/or without lifebuffs is a challenge, not how HU was designed to play. But it's offtopic!

Are you trying to say that firestorm/windy druids are weak before they use 90lvl? IF yes why/how do you have 99lvl druid, if no why should they get double damage from just one item?
edit:
Quote:
How about armageddon after the nerf, even more uncompetitive damage, guess fire druids are all about spamming firestorm though.
2nd week this ladder I made a topic with 2 screenies, before and after having armageddon rw. 27k armg vs 51k armg - I had silly gear, ormus or something. Do you think that 27k armg is weak even when it has damage range realy as meteo - 6x times better than ladder ago. Get real...


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:12 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 27
Steel wrote:
I understand you but I can't agree with you. For example my blizz sorc has few diamonds in her gear and does ok vs heavy counter bosses, you need to tele and try to use it away from your team. Ofc for bosses like lazarus you should only use it when there is noone that melee him. On hell you should have at least one life buff, maxed and 3-4 teammates. Playing duo and/or without lifebuffs is a challenge, not how HU was designed to play. But it's offtopic!

Are you trying to say that firestorm/windy druids are weak before they use 90lvl? IF yes why/how do you have 99lvl druid, if no why should they get double damage from just one item?
edit:
Quote:
How about armageddon after the nerf, even more uncompetitive damage, guess fire druids are all about spamming firestorm though.
2nd week this ladder I made a topic with 2 screenies, before and after having armageddon rw. 27k armg vs 51k armg - I had silly gear, ormus or something. Do you think that 27k armg is weak even when it has damage range realy as meteo - 6x times better than ladder ago. Get real...


Bosses where blizzard will surely fuck you up, not gonna include every single one but: Hell mephisto, Guardian, first,2nd, 4th, 5th ball minions bosses, without right setup even baal. Do also note that these spell makes already hard encounters even harder so why would you make the already extremely hard hc even harder for yourself and even more reliant to party setup?
How does it even make sense that you cast a blizzard, start teleporting around the baal room which doesn't have much spare space to begin with, not to mention that it affects your damage output a lot, you can't start another blizzard before the first one has ran out or you're even more doomed than you already are, you also have to remember that your other party members might trigger same amount or even more counters making it impossible.....
Not to mention the fact that counters caused by 1 blizzard can easily kill you even with life buffs (Some of the counters have so big aoe or are auto-aimed)
I don't even want to start debating how a healer paladin or 5million rejuves are mandatory when you start talking about builds that trigger many counters....

As for armageddon, how about you have to stand really close to have it hit anything, how about getting multiple counters at your face on hell bosses and dying instantly because of your CB trapsin. As for your damage comparison how does it make sense for you to compare a relatively weak skill (armageddon after expected Armageddon nerf) to very weak skill (The armageddon when melee was dominating?

Also, I do agree that getting 50% of your damage from single weapon is fucked up design as quoting myself
Quote:
(This and armageddon getting nerfed because of firestorm is seriously pissing me off, you don't nerf all spells when one is overpowered... especially when the spell is that of another skill build) Nerfing valor(especially this one) and Armageddon while not buffing any respective skills that are affected by it but not deemed op is a piss poor way of doing things....


When the problem is not only the runeword but also the skills not being balanced you don't just do one thing. You don't go nerfing the runeword and alongside nerfing all the skills that were perfectly balanced with it, like hurricane,armageddon, arctic blast, volcano etc. That is even more fucked up way of doing things than leaving it be until a proper fix can be done.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:15 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
Quote:
Bosses where blizzard will surely fuck you up, not gonna include every single one but: Hell mephisto, Guardian, first,2nd, 4th, 5th ball minions bosses, without right setup even baal.
Killed all that you mentioned with blizz - 4th wave killed merc, FYI mercs are immune to glasyas counters... not only glasyas but you should already know that.I'm not reading the rest


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:32 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
Delta - you have:
8fire mastery from armageddon another +5 from arach/temp making it 13 - 90%
Having a soj or zakarum amulet could help you better for damage but do you really think that having static 30% - 5 perf facets - is too low? For your rare weapon - quad sock it with rubies, 48%(blood stones) is a massive boost.
27may is before 26 apparently.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
PureRage-DoD wrote:
29k dps firestorm *3 jets with 14-15k life? thats 90k per cast (as you can get in to melee range easily), not even taking into consideration fcr, thats with 1 cast per second. at 2.5 casts a sec thats 225k(ish) dps with a huge lifebulb.

It's a hc druid so you built for survivability over pure damage, maxing just 1 more synergy is a huge bonus to damage as it's applied before mastery.

If they remain unchanged then there should be an oskill poiosn mastery, oskill light mastery, oskill mag mastery weapon that will double the output of other elemental builds too.

Fire druids were working fine at the start of the ladder, just ask steel. They had no need for such a boost.


Whats your point Kevin? Blue created the runewords, don't forget that. Yeah they are overpowered but you can't expect people give them up freely halfway into the ladder.

From the sound of it, Blue is going to nerf all current armageddon/valor RW's and 'balanced' all newly made ones or something in that nature.

As he stated in Qwazyms post. "Don't make armageddon or valor until ladder update."

This is the kind of thinking that is running Hell Unleashed now. The guy creates the over powered runeword and now he wants to punish the community for using it. How much more idiotic can an individual be? Let's find Blue a trophy for his amazing logical reasoning. So now probably 30+ people will lose a Zod because they made a runeword he added. I just find it so funny. The whole community has the right to bitch if they want to now.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:41 pm
Posts: 232
So everyones talking about op damage and shit. I want to show my druid and I would like someone to tell me how my damage is too op. I did it with and without geddon.

Image

Image

here is what I wear
Helm is crafted +2 druid -19 fire resist +20fire skill damage
mother nature gloves
treks
spiderweb sash
a 20fcr druid ring
constrict ring
warrivs
templars (uber rubied...no facets)
ammy is crafted +2 druid +2 meditation

skills I maxed
lycanthropy
oak
firestorm
geddon
volcano


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 282
ouch

_________________
Lee is a fucking moron.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:49 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
29k dps firestorm *3 jets with 14-15k life? thats 90k per cast (as you can get in to melee range easily), not even taking into consideration fcr, thats with 1 cast per second. at 2.5 casts a sec thats 225k(ish) dps with a huge lifebulb.

It's a hc druid so you built for survivability over pure damage, maxing just 1 more synergy is a huge bonus to damage as it's applied before mastery.

If they remain unchanged then there should be an oskill poiosn mastery, oskill light mastery, oskill mag mastery weapon that will double the output of other elemental builds too.

Fire druids were working fine at the start of the ladder, just ask steel. They had no need for such a boost.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 3:37 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
Armageddon was before, just noone used it, Blue added fmastery and made a copy for cold chars, Fmastery is wrong, not runeword.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 4:34 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
Added fmastery whatever.. the point is still the same.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 6:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 27
People just keep complaining that firestorm is doing too much damage, so why the hell would you go changing valor before cold druids spells can be rebalanced in clinet-side patch? I just don't get it...


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 6:55 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 345
Location: Vancouver, BC
Same reason they nerfed phys dmg making summon druids absolutely useless.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 10:40 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
the point is, builds shouldnt be reliant on a single item for half of their damage... What happened to variation?

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 1:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 27
So, how does that make any sense? How about teeth necro, obviously has but one weapon choice.... Same applies to most builds, even without runewords.
The thing is that you simply kill the variations, like arctic blast by nerfing valor when the skill is balanced with said Weapon. The appropriate way of fixing valor and skills altogether is buffing the skill and nerfing valor respectively, that however is not possible with server-side update. Hence you don't touch valor before client-side patch, pretty simple?
Shouldn't hurt you one a bit.

If you nerf valor now what happens? Everyone will still use valor because it's the best weapon for cold druids and paladins, regardless of the nerf. You're just making them less viable and it doesn't make any sense...


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:14 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
Quote:
So, how does that make any sense? How about teeth necro, obviously has but one weapon choice.... Same applies to most builds, even without runewords.


because boneshade don't give teeth a 100% damage boost?

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 9:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 27
My bone shade argument was a response to your "what happened to variations" -argument, which was something totally bullshit and ignorant. Don't go taking it out of context pls...

So you rather kill arctic blast and nerf cold druids and paladins before this can be properly fixed? That fix is just half-assed fix that only makes the game worse instead of better. I just can't see why you so desperately want to fix something broken but create even more broken game with said fix?
To me it looks like you have set your mind and won't even care to think about other options, you only keep throwing half-assed arguments with no base...

Hope you do realize that this won't even affect cold druids nor paladins weapon choice, you're reasoning is way too illogical. In the end it's a less viable cold druid/paladin with valor, what the fuck has changed? (Please, just please don't respond to this one)
Face palm...

Well, no use bashing my head against a wall.... Because it's clear that you care more about balancing the items than balancing builds as a whole.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 11:39 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
to be honest, i dont really care, i've lost interest in wasting my breath arguing here, leave it as it is if you like ;)

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:02 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:21 pm
Posts: 4
Set a couple times a week spanning a couples hours where any of the admins can host a game and people can join and trade in their item and receive a Zod in return. Make the information available to everyone, and explain that after 2-3 weeks the items will be destroyed so they should try their best to trade in.

There will undoubtedly be the number of people who for whatever reason were not able to find the time to make the trade, and they will definitely feel bitter especially since most other people did get to trade, but hopefully they are mature enough to realize that a change was necessary, and compensation was attempted.

I've spent my fair share of time screwing around on private servers, and it's a very rare thing to see any kind of attempt at compensation as opposed to straight up rollbacks or wipes.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:33 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 4:10 am
Posts: 480
Xtasis wrote:
Set a couple times a week spanning a couples hours where any of the admins can host a game and people can join and trade in their item and receive a Zod in return. Make the information available to everyone, and explain that after 2-3 weeks the items will be destroyed so they should try their best to trade in.

There will undoubtedly be the number of people who for whatever reason were not able to find the time to make the trade, and they will definitely feel bitter especially since most other people did get to trade, but hopefully they are mature enough to realize that a change was necessary, and compensation was attempted.

I've spent my fair share of time screwing around on private servers, and it's a very rare thing to see any kind of attempt at compensation as opposed to straight up rollbacks or wipes.


All runes then lol, just not the zod,

Well, the best option would either way be to change the fire mastery so we can just keep everything as it is. Like was proposed some other place on this forum.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
The best method to fix this is as PureRage suggested. Any other method would result in the loss of several Zods and would be disastrous. Editing the fire mastery to limit % is the ideal method but based on posts I've seen by Blue.. based off logical reasoning he is doing something that will NERF all current RWS and add a new RW. He suggested to someone on here not to make Armageddon/Valor till patch update.. which suggest the above. I hope he does not initiate such a change.. he'd lose a huge amount of support from this community if he did.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:18 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
the formula is extremely simple for the masterys and has no negative effects really.

blvl>=1?ln12:30

is base level greater or equal to 1? if yes use the regular progression, if no, give 30% bonus. simple

you could even change the 30 to (ln12/4) so its 1/4 the strength of the masterys if you dont have 1 hard point in the skill.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:22 am
Posts: 176
Location: Hungary
i vote for this too


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:26 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 276
Location: Toronto, Canada
I agree with pure-rage on what action to take.

I still kind of feel like ' I told you so', this patch is another big fail. Even though you guys put tons of work into it, it's honestly falling apart, this patch... People who are still interested in D2 are going to play other mods over this one.

_________________
blue_myriddn wrote:
This patch is probably the best balance HU has seen in a long time.

Abominae wrote:
@Blue
Hmmm.... Sometimes I believe your logic is on another fucked up plane of existence.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:04 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:50 pm
Posts: 224
Remove these runewords from the ladder - this will delete them from people's inventory. - No, this is a lose lose situation


Don't delete them from people, gimp any new Armageddons and Valors that are made. - no this will make pre nerf items worth waay too much

Leave them alone and just fix it with the next reset. - this imo - these need to be changed to 5 skill +50% and -50% to be worthy of a zon but not gamebreaking im.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:33 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 276
Location: Toronto, Canada
howbout we just roll back to the last patch that didn't suck.

Sure it was 'boring' if you played d2 24/7 and figured out all the little things, but at least it didn't suck

_________________
blue_myriddn wrote:
This patch is probably the best balance HU has seen in a long time.

Abominae wrote:
@Blue
Hmmm.... Sometimes I believe your logic is on another fucked up plane of existence.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:02 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:16 am
Posts: 90
Rasta spits the truth.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Armageddon & Valor runewords
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:53 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:36 am
Posts: 317
Location: Phoenix
sorry i didnt post sooner, but ive been playing a druid to wear valor and then testing it

I want to point out a couple of things First......its fucking zod it should be op as compared to a non zod rw, otherwise you can just make it el el el el .

Second if someone had told me that if "we" fuck up we are going to delete your Zod rw. Ide have just not played they game anymore in the first place. Took me alot of time to get them just so you can delete them.

Third yes they are op, ive tried valor , but its not over powered in one resepect the damn thing has no pierce , so a char doin 1/9 the damage that my druid does kills better. However the char doesnt have the survivability that a druid has due to the fact that he has 14percent life buff per skill point and the other doesnt. In HC thats important.

Blue I dont envy you on this one your fucked no matter what u do. I voted to just wait till next patch........................CAN WE DO THAT TOMOROW? :-)

And kev's idea was the best one on this whole topic.......fuck the rest just do that until reset

_________________
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Einstein

Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. Einstein


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 103 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron