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 Post subject: About blaze...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:19 am
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Location: Quebec, Canada
Here's the issue: I deal a bit over 70k dps blaze, stacking it 60 times means 4 200 000dps which passes the max dps cap and deals lower dmg than a less stacked blaze, optimal dmg seems to be when stacked 14 times...

So at the same time im bragging about dealing the highest dmg ever im also whining about inability to enhence it any further. (lol)

Im making bigger patches now (meaning less stack) and its working good but id like to see blaze nerfed, even if it promotes good team coordination, it's like "broken" atm since i just lost the need for amelioration of my dmg. If the max dps cap is 1 000 000, blaze should be nerfed by 75% or so? well itll make it totally worthless against thrash tho... idk what we could do.

Anyone got an idea? Maybe removing a synergy so it becomes a 60 point build and gets weaker at the same time?

Ofc those huge numbers are obtained when using end game gear, but imo blaze is op during the whole progression of the char, i solo'd hc nm andy with my lv62 blazer in under 8 seconds...

bragbragbrag ;) but its a real issue i think, even if its far less important than the hell bosses phys imu thing.

Good times all!

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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
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lol ya my wc barb and a blaze sorc ran through NM acts SO easy. I run up, stun a mob, she makes a patch, we both run behind it, enemies run to us and die.

OR, in a less organized mob, I just leap and push them into the flames. That duo is fuckin sic right there. We did dury, meph, and dia just us 2, and we were both underleveled.

Having so much DPS that you actually get less? Sounds like being in the top tax bracket in US... if u made a little less money you would actually get a lot more lol

EDIT: We ran through norm, not NM, and the blazer was Dieu XD

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Last edited by slappyNuts on Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:19 am
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Location: Quebec, Canada
lol dude wasnt that blazer called Feu? it was me ;)

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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 1125
Location: Vancouver, BC
A couple years ago there was a discussion about Blaze that never really went anywhere, but the community seemed to feel that Blaze was fine as it is (it matches current Blaze, although modern gear is different). Consider reviewing that thread, and if it is relevant to this discussion then resurrect some of the points raised. It would be nice to get enough information about the good and bad points of the Blazer build to compare it with other related builds (builds that rely on building "traps", similar defensive and offensive capabilities, etc) and then suggest balancing changes based on that. I would agree that 75% feels like the most Blaze could be reduced while keeping it effective, but it would be better to get some more comparisons to other builds.

I'm not convinced that reducing the damage by 75% would make Blaze ineffective against trash, since my experience with it was that just 1-3 laps of Blaze caused trash to die before it could walk over it once (i.e. die in less than a second). If you needed to stack 4-12 laps (i.e. 3-8 seconds build time?) of Blaze for the same effect, then you should still have plenty of time to make the patch and lure stuff to it. When I was in a hurry, I used to just place a FWall and run along it (similar to stacking Blaze twice), and that seemed fine for most of Norm and NM trash. With that strategy, FWall didn't last long at all so I'd end up running up a FWall to the next group, and then running away along a new FWall (preferrably re-using the previous Blaze line, which is challenging and relatively fun). A reduction of Blaze by 75% would make that strategy more reliant on FWall, or just require monsters to walk along the Blaze line for 4 seconds rather than 1. Neither situation seems to ruin that strategy for killing trash. I was using that strategy mostly when playing in parties (I'd dart out from the group and generally lure monsters back to the group while it progressed). When playing alone I found the Patch-trap strategy more enjoyable, partly since it was easier to notice drops, and partly because I could safely camp in the patch and place FWalls at archers (although I could have just retreated another screen and caused the archers to move forward into the patch).


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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
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lol that was you!

man what happend to her? my wc barb is in a3 hell now. lets duo that shit!

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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:18 pm 
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Location: Quebec, Canada
I calculated it and max dps is 1625k (65k*25) so i pass that with the 21st lap with 73-80k blaze (-151%enemy fire res). Any hell boss that isnt fi dies within a few seconds when standing in that 1500k ish dps patch so it feels really overpowered but yeah its hard to get em to stand in it sometimes so it balanes it out i guess. After thinking about that id say 40% nerf would seem more fair, but i still have to test other powerbuilds to really compare, more to come soon!!!

@slappynuts im bored of undercrowded hc so im more into sc atm, Feu is still in nm... btw for hc what im playing the most atm is a conv healer which is ready for nm ancients and baal whenever u get a char there let me know! (at tundra wp atm)

edit: did i say atm? lol

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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:48 pm 
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I see... well you're not helping with the underpopulation issue!
I got a char who should be in NM soon, just needs baal now. Should be a5 soon enough
sorry off topic

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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:55 pm 
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Are you sure that you are hitting a cap in 1.10? I remember that 1.11 forward has issues, but I don't recall this in 1.10...if nothing else, the cap should be more than just 2x's the cap in 1.11

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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:19 am
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Location: Quebec, Canada
yeah im sure, when stacking more dmg gets worse, quite weird yeah...

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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:19 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:21 am
Posts: 103
Just wondering, from your experience, do you need the long duration or can it be reduced? Also, does it cause much lag or not (for other players)?


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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
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http://phrozenkeep.hugelaser.com/forum/ ... =8&t=41419

Anyway, I've tested meteo 210000 damage with 255% pierce and it was quite good vs 8ppl Andariel.

PureRage said it already Blaze fire should be scaled down to 25%, same for meteo's fire but I'd say 50% for it.


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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:54 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 977
doesnt andy have lowest fire res of any boss? try on a diff boss hell sam for instance or meph baal etc


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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:26 pm 
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no.
255% pierce, effect would be the same on every boss. All have 40%fire abs.


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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:53 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
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well its not just that its the strategy hell sam isnt going to sit and burn like andy will lol nor baal will even move on it i bet


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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:56 pm 
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blinky99 wrote:
well its not just that its the strategy hell sam isnt going to sit and burn like andy will lol nor baal will even move on it i bet

that is a core issue with blaze/meteor. *If* you can get a boss to do what you want, the skill owns. Going solo that's usually pretty hard to do. With a good team though, it works great.

So we have a skill that is outstanding when a good team puts it to work. I am reluctant to alter that sort of dynamic much. In fact, I'd like to see even more skills like that.

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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:31 pm 
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Quote:
well its not just that its the strategy hell sam isnt going to sit and burn like andy will lol nor baal will even move on it i bet
Well I was referring to damage cap issue.


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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:56 pm 
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Location: Quebec, Canada
the dmg cap thing could be fixed by lowering all dmg in game by 50% and all monster life also by 50% lol sounds like a very long job, idk much about modding tho maybe thats ez fix.

That would make the 1625k cap harder to reach.

Well this blaze thing is really of second importance, new thread for cooking up a patch all together for removing phys imunity?

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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:08 am 
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Location: Toronto, Canada
blaze is fine depending on perspective.

From a normal person's perspective to be able to get through the game is fine.

From the Hardcore Elitist perspective, all bosses need to be made fire and poison immune to go with the physical immune and limit our options more. (im not saying every hardcore player is elitist, just the ones that said this patch is balanced and you need 'teamwork'.

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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:36 am 
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such an angry little boy...

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 Post subject: Re: About blaze...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
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lol rasta i wish you played hc so i could PK your whiny ass

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