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 Post subject: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:31 am 
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Is it possible to make it so they can use sorc orbs?
are they not able to use them for a reason?
while at it what about a2 and pally shields and a1 with zon bows?

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:35 am 
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pally shields I would be opposed to. The +resist bonus is there to help paladins and would make for monster A2 mercs.

orbs I am a little cautious about too as the unique orbs have pretty strong -resists on them.

bows, I don't see an issue - but I also don't really see a need either.

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:49 am 
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fair point on pally shields. though it does restrict them to 1h weapons. I was mostly mentioning it because its another class specific item.

i would agree that some have have - res the high lvl orbs especially but they dont benefit from the + skills and as far as pierce goes wouldnt a 6 socket crystal sword with 6x ubers outperform any orb?
can agree again on bows but it just gives more options as you are lvling them especially since the class specific bows have piece and if its not a huge deal to change then it seems like a useful change.

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:34 am 
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The only orb that would compare would be fathom
+5 to Sorceress Skill Levels
+50% Faster Cast Rate
Regenerate Mana 50%
Increased Maximum Mana 50%
-25% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-25% to Enemy Cold Resistance
-25% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+25% to Fire Skill Damage
+25% to Lightning Skill Damage
+25% to Cold Skill Damage
100% Chance to Cast Level 40 Bone Spear when Attacking
Socketed (3)
being able to get -55% pierce and a bonus +25% to dmg over 6 socket sword
the added bonus of getting 50 fcr with it.
85 orb is much less spectacular with only 2 sockets for a -20/+20 and 30 fcr with teh bonus of a possible +2 meteor.
when they are able to use the new wildly powerful staves (even tho some were designed to be less advantageous for mercs via high + sorc skills and + class specifics for sins/druids) but you can still have

+1 to All Skills
+7 to Sorceress Skill Levels
+66% Faster Cast Rate
-25-29% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-25-29% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
-25-29% to Enemy Cold Resistance
Regenerate Mana 50%
+50% Faster Hit Recovery
Resist All +50%
Increase Maximum Life 25%
Increase Maximum Mana 25%
Socketed (4)
huge life buff and 50 res all with -70%(!!!!!!!!) pierce fhr and fcr andddddddddd a + skill.
the lower lvl staves are rather comparable to lower lvl orbs.
given how powerful the staves are i see no reason why we cant open up orbs

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:38 am 
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compare skull collector
+4 to Sorceress Skill Levels
Increase Maximum Mana 50%
+50 to Mana After Each Kill
+(90-150)% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (Based on Character Level)
+50% Faster Cast Rate
+15-20% to Fire Skill Damage
+15-20% to Cold Skill Damage
+15-20% to Lightning Skill Damage
25% Chance to Cast Level 1 Lower Resist when Struck
25% Chance to Cast Level 1 Lower Resist when Striking
Ignore Target's Defense
Socketed (4)
ez -40 res with possible +20% andddd lr on struck in exchange for the res that are typically present on staves
and
philosopher stone
+2 to Sorceress Skill Levels
+25% Faster Cast Rate
+15% to Fire Skill Damage
+15% to Cold Skill Damage
+15% to Lightning Skill Damage
Socketed (2)
-20 res with +15 and less fcr..

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:44 am 
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Zikur wrote:
given how powerful the staves are i see no reason why we cant open up orbs

Staves are 2h.
Combine those orbs with shields and you start to get some powerful A3 mercs. Given that they are already very powerful, I don't see why they need to be enhanced.

Full tal's A3 merc? no thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:58 am 
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just like actual sorc's full tals would not be optimal. the 95 stave + templars + griffons ? if we want to really crunch numbers ill volunteer to do it when i have free time tomorrow.
the only staves that underperform at the ones at lvl 70 occy can be arguable more powerful at that lvl. the rest up to 85 stave wins. I would like to know what godly shield you are running that is making them so much better than the massive boosts the staves with res give. other than +2 lidless.
at 95 its between fathom and hhg? and the 95 stave you can have either -78 res with ubers or -54/+24 with facets with more res fcr fhr 25% hp booost (!) so what are you doing with your shield slot that is going to push it over the top? and we are talking about the highest possible gear imaginable. only at the 95 lvl can fathom even compare inn terms of pierce and sockets and fcr.
I will do the numbers tomorrow but at a glance right now I would argue the bonuses from tals are not significant enough to outshine griffons/templars/95 stave/immortal flesh or unique spiderweb. you lose tons of sockets and gain + sorc skills (usesless) whereas you get 8 + all from helm armor and belt alone outside of tals.

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:00 pm 
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you are convinced opening up options will 'enhance' i dont see how. tals mercs do not appear to be 'improving' anything. nobody is saying make + sorc skills work. if that was the cast then maybe it would be different.

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:32 pm 
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im not saying its the right option to free them up but i am not seeing the terribleness you are implying would happen. there already exist other very powerful options for them without orbs. orbs are just adding option and thats never a bad thing.

the reason this even came to my attention is i have a +3 meteor orb and i wanted to make the dol tir rw and put it on my summoner's merc to have access to might. it would certainly help my skeles and give my merc a boost to his meteors and a shot of fcr.
I dont think that is crazy powerful since if i wanted might so bad i could craft holy shields..if i wanted plus skills i could make hoto.

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:46 pm 
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double and triple posting FTW.
Personally the only good weapons I see for a3 are Time in +3chain/meteo/blizz or heaven's will.
Also it's not possible (at least not by easy way) to allow merc to use class items. I've checked it, it's still red, but A1 with hammer is fantastic.


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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:49 pm 
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sure - run some numbers and see what you come up with.

To repeat what I first said: "orbs I am a little cautious about"
A lot of balance has gone under the assumption that sorcs are the only ones use those items, so I am very cautious about opening them up to another class. Tal's has great resists & +life - which could be a little over the top for A3 mercs. Certainly not end game gear, but it might be a bit strong compared to other options.

Then of course there is the aura questions. Might is the obvious one - but you can get that much easier via a holy crafted shield. Conviction is probably the really tricky one - but since that costs a Zod is it overpowered? Dunno.

So sure - look in to it and let us know what you think, but I am going to be cautious about that sort of change.

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:07 pm 
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my god i hadnt noticed new time. +10 total with pierce and natural res O skill (!!) which you would have +19 all easily not counting rings or boots.

I know you first said that but then you said "full tal's a3 merc? no thanks"
which just seemed to be shutting it down without really looking into it.
I agree tals would be great defensively for an a3 merc ill try to see what other options exist around that level.

as for might I can get it easier but i was hoping to get it on my + 3 orb and get fcr the shield isnt as high of a level a the perfect lvl maybe ss/ms and it offers up sockets - using a rhyme as it is.

I would say conviction while powerful does indeed cost a zod for one and would not be entirely unique in that you can get it on infinity mercs too. if it pierced psn then yeah cause you could then run the psn merc with that for too much psn pierce but -27% pierce at the cost of a zod is likely somewhat appropriate for the cost since you are not getting the benefit from the + sorc skills again.
TFK and fathom are likely the most powerful orbs avaiable and as far as the dmg the a3 merc would deal the obvious choice is fathom. being able to pay zod cham and add more to your own dmg can be good. light/cold/fire chars that already use a3 mercs would come to mind here.

@ steel how do you mean its not easily done? are a5 mercs just able to by design? are you saying it would require CE to do?

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:24 pm 
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Quote:
@ steel how do you mean its not easily done? are a5 mercs just able to by design? are you saying it would require CE to do?
Adding weapon id to d2mod.ini won't allow them to use class items, you can set that a3 can use mauls but no orbs.A5 are probably hardcored to use barb items but I can't say for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:31 pm 
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poopy
is this something that i might be able to search phrozen keep and the like for answers?
edit typo

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Last edited by Zikur on Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:40 pm 
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Steel wrote:
Quote:
@ steel how do you mean its not easily done? are a5 mercs just able to by design? are you saying it would require CE to do?
Adding weapon id to d2mod.ini won't allow them to use class items, you can set that a3 can use mauls but no orbs.A5 are probably hardcored to use barb items but I can't say for sure.


Not 100% on this but wasn't a5 mercs using barb helms a custom code edit? I could be wrong but i'm sure i remember reading a post on PK about someone needing to hardcode the a5 merc to use barb helms.

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:49 pm 
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I've found checks for 1.09 http://phrozenkeep.hugelaser.com/forum/ ... 326#p48326 nothing on 1.10 tho.


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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:46 am 

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Ok maybe this has been answered before,but does + skills to a certain tree such as cold skills or fire skills apply to the Iron Wolves?


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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:43 am 
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only +fire skills as those are non sorceress specific.

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:26 pm 

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someone told me + blizzard works on a3 , not ture? for Time, also does mindblast still on RW time?


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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:29 pm 
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blue.arimyth.com has the correct runeword properties:

+7 to All Skills
+50% Faster Cast Rate
+3 to Natural Resistance (OSKILL)
-50-60% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-50-60% to Enemy Cold Resistance
-50-60% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
100% Chance to Cast Level 20 Mind Blast when Struck
Hit Freezes Target (+33)
+30 to Energy
+60 to Mana
Indestructible
Ignore Target's Defense

I am under the assumption that +blizzard (and all other +specific skills) work, which is why i wrote that on the blue.arimyth.com website, however I haven't personally verified it. Please feel encouraged to test it and report back.

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:36 pm 

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i dont really know how to test, as the damage they show changes often and i cant tell from what really.id only do it single player though and that i dont know how to do not gonna make a time for him to test lol


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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:50 pm 
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ya - would have to single player test it with some hacked items to really verify.

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:00 pm 

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The -10 resistance works for allies damage correct? Pretty sure this is the case.

So would a act 2 merc wearing dream helm(or any other holy aura) replicate this effect?


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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:04 pm 
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no. merc auras are different than item auras I believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:40 pm 

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1. Does the holy shock aura from dream lower the resistances of enemies for everyone?

2. Do the paladin auras lower the resistances of enemies for everyone?

3. Do the merc auras lower the resistances of enemies for everyone?

Yes or no answers to 1-3.


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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:27 pm 
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I think Blue is recalling previous versions of HU, where mercs were given clones of Paladin auras (MercFreeze aura to be specific) while the Paladin auras themselves were buffed to pierce enemy res. Perhaps back then runewords like "Ice" and "Doom" used MercFreeze on equip, but they currently use HolyFreeze. Currently, MercFreeze (used by A3 Cold mercs) is the only non-Paladin aura used by any merc.

1) Yes, Holy Shock aura lowers resistances of enemies by 10%, so everyone would benefit. "Dream" helms have HolyShock on equip, not a nerfed clone of that skill.

2) Yes, HolyFire and HolyFreeze also lower enemy res by 10% (However, someone should test HolyFire, since the text files show that it reduces enemy res by 20%(aurastat1) and by 10% (aurastat2)). Sanctuary does not lower enemy res, it just provides 20% passive MagicPierce while in use. Holy auras will not stack to reduce enemy resistances beyond -10%, but they do stack with Conviction.

3) Yes, A3 mercs use HolyFire, HolyShock, and MercFreeze. HolyFreeze slows from 11% up to 40% and lowers res by 10%, while MercFreeze slows from 7% up to 30% and lowers res by 20%. HFreeze and MFreeze should not stack on a single character, since they use the same states (holywind on the player and holywindcold on the target). I recall no tests of this, but I would assume the highest level aura would be in effect on the player, while the monsters would have their cold res reduced by 20% (I'm guessing that targetstate uses the maximum of two values, otherwise HolyFire and HolyShock would not both reduce enemy res because they use the same targetstate).


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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:29 am 

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Holy fire 10%.


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 Post subject: Re: Iron Wolves
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:24 am 
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Quote:
However, someone should test HolyFire, since the text files show that it reduces enemy res by 20%(aurastat1) and by 10% (aurastat2
Indeed it has 2x -fireresist but only the highest one is applied aka -10. -20 for the game is lower value.


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