I didnt vote yet cuz id say all that is needed to be fixed is boss phys immunity, so if its possible to do that rapidly id say only fix the monster charms. But if its a big work then i guess revert and reset is for the best. I'll bbs to vote.

Let's revert back to 1.21z and re-work some balance concerns contained in 1.3a for the next reset.

since it seems that Steel has been able to find a quick easy fix, what reason would we have to revert? Anyone?

this clearly shows the majority of people want to revert back and remove the dreaded anti rush

It's not the anti-rush in itself that is screwing this up. It is the combination of extreme nerfs on top of it, making it extremely frustrating to play melee, therefore anyone stuck with a melee char wanting to get rushed since they are pretty much useless anyways.

What me and Steel have been doing is messing around with the physical resist on the boss charm to bring it to an acceptable value. The issue with this is it conflicts with the Hardcore role of melee vs. the Softcore role of melee.

In 1.21 and previous patches melee was considered too strong for 1 reason, crushing blow. Removing in itself is fine, but further nerfing made it more complex, especially since Soulmancer even stated that it would make melee useless and go for small tweaks instead of huge nerfs.

Antirush by itself would have been fine. Antirush + half of the current builds not viable after a3-a4 NM when boss resists start to shoot up. For example, Hell Andariel is currently physical immune.

Hell Baal has 145% physical resist, on top of 50% block. I don't know the values for norm and NM baal, but it's quite sad. In 1.21 we had a strong amplify damage to bring his physical reistance low enough to actually damage him. Now you can just barely break it with a maxed amp.

Many of us have agreed to lift some of the boss physical resistance. To do this we first want to know where this patch is going and what is the role of melee. With casters and poison zons soloing Hell Act bosses, while being good at trash, and having lifecharms+call to arms.. it makes melee pointless. Rabies and frostbite are okay, but still casters so far have proven to be much much stronger, on top of being able to effectively clear trash, something Melee was always quite terrible at.

The blame rests on everyone and on no one. If it's a community patch then vote on what should be done.

um... no it doesn't... it shows the majority of people (that have voted) just want to lower phys immunes.. unless I'm missing something about the poll lol

it's a community patch in the sense that certain members of the community were given rights to make changes.

just because an entire community votes for fire sorcs to be given god mode doesn't mean it will or should be done.

since simply telling them there is a problem/asking them politely to fix it is just ludicrous.

I don't know when this whole 'Hell isn't Candyland'*, thing started, but it's going to cause more problems in the future.

Terry balanced elemental damage in hell on the assumption of maxed resists.
Boss physical resistance was set on the assumption that melees would use 50%+ amp damage.
Removing skillers worked because you added +skills on items to make up for it.

your not going to find the balance that Terry seeked and what clearly worked and what draws people to this mod if you balance on the assumption that 'Hardcore did it'

I don't have a bone to pick with hardcore, I personally don't play because of lag and because the mod wasn't made with hardcore in mind, causing a lot of shitty things that make you die, especially if you don't know that 'this and this boss you must do this' or whatever other lack of knowledge.

Can we stop making 12346892 posts about changes, and about how much melees suck?
I think we get the point,
amp nerf + cb nerf + boss charm = melees seriously underpowered now,
steel + rasta lowering boss charm = melees can now do dmg
flaming of people begins, including blaming dev team for the patch, blue, kev, etc, because there obviously has to be someone to blame, since simply telling them there is a problem/asking them politely to fix it is just ludicrous.

so we have a solution (perhaps) now, with lowering the charm resist, hooray. Now just tell the volunteers behind the mod that you've found a way to fix it, and ask them if it is possible to implement it. If not, quit being anti-social, get a party together, and play your precious melee char as a support, not as a tank/dps/pwnage char as it has been in years past.

What me and Steel have been doing is messing around with the physical resist on the boss charm to bring it to an acceptable value. The issue with this is it conflicts with the Hardcore role of melee vs. the Softcore role of melee.

If not, quit being anti-social, get a party together, and play your precious melee char as a support, not as a tank/dps/pwnage char as it has been in years past.

Do you seriously believe that players like me and Steel want 'godmode'.

and play your precious melee char as a support, not as a tank/dps/pwnage char as it has been in years past.

No, we shouldn't revert. I don't want the shitstorm that is going on for current poison chars and former melees to be brought back. Also, anti-rush should be made more and more strict and people who are against anti-rush should be directed to battle.net immediately and unconditionally.

No, we shouldn't revert. I don't want the shitstorm that is going on for current poison chars and former melees to be brought back. Also, anti-rush should be made more and more strict and people who are against anti-rush should be directed to battle.net immediately and unconditionally.

Would it be any worse a shitstorm than we presently have?

I agree that anti-rush needs to be brought back to nightmare, however, I also think for us to do that we should add a later waypoint in a5 so the baal quest causes less logistical problems, however this isn't the thread for this, so once melee gets fixed we can sit down and discuss it (lol @ me talking about not derailing shit)

What ever happened to playing as the player chooses to play? I still see lvl 60+ leading the mules thru normal, nothing has changed. All that will happen is those who want to rush and be rushed will simply make additional chars for the purpose, but people are blind to that fact. There has been a few good things come from this patch, but it needs more polish. IMO, last patch had more balance, some simply thought it was "too easy".

Have the level difference cap at 15 and count the switches to b.net. I say "you count" because i don't think i will be able to count past a certain number (likely to be 500) without forgetting where I was.

Have the level difference cap at 15 and count the switches to b.net. I say "you count" because i don't think i will be able to count past a certain number (likely to be 500) without forgetting where I was.

Just FYI, I would be very surprised if you could do a revert to 1.21z without a reset.

and people who are against anti-rush should be directed to battle.net immediately and unconditionally.

Yes, it is clearly understood it would require a full reset to do this. Any changes beyond the MC's would at minimum require some form of update, that goes without saying.

As for those getting ready for LoS that number is rather small comparatively.

Says who? Last ladder there were 3 small updates with skill changes, gear changes and even diff changes without any reset, so I'm asking who says there should be a reset? you?

It's the ultimate goal of this mod.

A FUCKING MEN

Resolving things to restore the playability back to at least close to what we had in 1.21z.

STR8 on high end melee items is removed - 0 - cb is nearly not existing, dex and energy/%mana, pierce are all over the every item and fucked AMP. HC team suggested caster mod, so we have it, tho I don't think we should revert, we should improve, not by making casters weaker, by making melee more viable.
1) Increase minimal spawn to 4ppl and divide all trash monsters hp by 50% - trash will be trash, bosses will have 3x hp than now

2)Inc drain on bosses, add new formula on amp (which I suggested or we can speak about that) and/or lower bossunique items.
3)Inc iron maiden return damage to make it harder to melee right clicking
4)All bosses let have AI delay 3 or 4 making them uber fucking impossible.
5)Pussies and whiners will argue.
Instead of adding new things you want to revert? huh? 1.21z was fun but that's all about it, with reset new challenge comes, old methods aren't classy.

Changing spawns will also make monsters hit harder, compounding the lack of dr.

No, what I said is revert and re-work this patch and bring it back after more polish.

1) Increase minimal spawn to 4ppl and divide all trash monsters hp by 50% - trash will be trash, bosses will have 3x hp than now

Am I also wrong in thinking the amp change would require at least a small update, or if adjusted server-side client-side will lie to us?

Too bad we can't figure out a way to make monstats.txt have a progressive function. I.E. s/s'd then 6 people join bosses hp climbs by x% to compensate.

All I know is when I get my melee to hell I wanna do more than stand around lookin good

its a game people play it as THEY WANT.

if you want a challenge dont pick easy builds

dont play with uber builds psn fire healers etc

go play meele have a challenge. play solo have a challenge, find other people who want this challenge and play together. lots of options.

There is always going to be uber duo trio or single teams that just tear stuff up and people will find them make them to play as they want

Do that when you create a game and problem solved. A forced cap WOULD cause problem beyond your scope of comprehension. I don't understand why anti-rush solutions need to be so complex. What you desire to have implemented is impossible to have function correctly. Besides, do what you propose and how much fun will it be playing with the same 5 people all the time?

etc. go play meele have a challenge

Baal has 145% physical resist.

Theres a challenge, and then, there's technically impossible

You actually have a chance if you play a frenzy barb and you got a ctc level 20 amp on striking located either off-weapon or on weapons in both hands.

I feel that the problem is that the barb does not really clear trash as well as the sorce, and the player would rather play the sorce and they feel that the barb is underpowered. If people think that a barb is able to solo a hell boss, they are wrong and missing the point of the mod.

Problem is nec has 4 recastable barbs(!) that do exactly the same as fully geared barb. Trash is trash, ww barb clears it without losing a pot, but 10x slower than sorcs, but he does.