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 Post subject: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:10 pm 
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Can we fix the physical resist on bosses so amp can actually break it.

If this is a 'test' patch, I wouldn't see the reason not to see if melees would be overpowered or not.

I know we can all agree they are absolute crap now, so if we reduce boss phys resistance maybe they won't be?

You can always change it back to the way it is, with half of the viable builds in the game gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:23 am 
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Or change amp so it hits -100% at level 20 and further points increase radius/duration.

It's honestly not even a hard choice on what to use; Lower Resist or Amp when playing because of the massive amount of passive pierce on items. Are you going to break that physical immune just to have it retain 90-99% of it's resistance or break the elemental immunity and let the passive pierce take over.

And melee shouldn't be required to cast Amp just to be able to do damage to a boss. Casters aren't required to cast Lower Resist or have a Conviction aura present to do damage to a boss AFAIK.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
It's insanity really.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:28 am 
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they are if the boss is immune

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 Post subject: Re: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:48 am 
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Quote:
Can we fix the physical resist on bosses so amp can actually break it.
Your best bet would be PMing Soulmancer. Blue said he was not in command to do any changes yet on every proposal he replies it's not gonna happen - he doesn't "just" disagree as it'd be just a matter of one voice vs rest. You can get schizophrenia here, so better PM Terry with that question.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:39 am 
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Trafalgar wrote:
And melee shouldn't be required to cast Amp just to be able to do damage to a boss. Casters aren't required to cast Lower Resist or have a Conviction aura present to do damage to a boss AFAIK.


THIS!!

If melee is balanced, then to balance casters is the same fashion, you would have to make every hell boss immune to all elements.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:13 am 
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FuryCury wrote:
THIS!!

If melee is balanced, then to balance casters is the same fashion, you would have to make every hell boss immune to all elements.

Yes and no. I 100% agree that this hidden immunity sux balls and should get fixed.

HOWEVER, all that casters have is damage. They have no life buffs, defense buffs, resistance buffs - they have only their damage. Without damage, they are useless. A melee character with low damage isn't useless though - they have other capacities.

So if you wanted a comparable balance, you would need to make every hell boss immune to all elements and boost the survivability of casters so that they could stand in front of a boss and tank.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:28 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
HOWEVER, all that casters have is damage. They have no life buffs, defense buffs, resistance buffs - they have only their damage. Without damage, they are useless. A melee character with low damage isn't useless though - they have other capacities.


Erm..
So my Fire Druid can no longer run Oak Sage?
And my Hammerdin can no longer use Holy Shield?
And Fade has been removed from my Trap Assassin!

Great things to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:33 pm 
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Zikur wrote:
they are if the boss is immune

Then I refer back to my first point about passive pierce.

blue_myriddn wrote:
Yes and no. I 100% agree that this hidden immunity sux balls and should get fixed.

:D

blue_myriddn wrote:
HOWEVER, all that casters have is damage. They have no life buffs, defense buffs, resistance buffs - they have only their damage. Without damage, they are useless. A melee character with low damage isn't useless though - they have other capacities.

Casters have their own means of survival usually involving minions, teleporting, or absorbing damage. If someone makes a character ignoring these defenses to have an all out damage build it's not anyone elses fault the caster dies quickly.
A melee character built to do as much physical damage possible isn't far off from a pure damage caster. They just have more life because of items and life per vitality bonus.
Maybe items for casters should be looked at. :?
Maybe items for melee should be looked at. :?

blue_myriddn wrote:
So if you wanted a comparable balance, you would need to make every hell boss immune to all elements and boost the survivability of casters so that they could stand in front of a boss and tank.

I understand this MOD has 'roles' for characters. But I think it is incorrect to lump all melee in the Tank category. I don't know the best solution but I'm 99% sure making bosses physical immune unless cursed with Amp is the wrong way to stop people from soloing bosses.
The choice to use Amp or LR shouldn't be so obvious, it should be based on party makeup, but even with 2 caster and 6 physical damage builds it is probably more effective to use LR.

What I do know is the solution isn't going to be simple.
My suggestions:
Tanks and Physical melee builds need to have a much greater separation. What I mean is items would need to be changed/added to satisfy each role and that will be no easy feat.
My initial thought is to make Tank equipment require less strength and make it totally unappealing to casters as a means to separate physical damage and tank builds, but i haven't fully thought this through.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:53 pm 
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Quote:
They have no life buffs, defense buffs, resistance buffs
They have what we call oskills from runewords.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Steel wrote:
Quote:
Can we fix the physical resist on bosses so amp can actually break it.
Your best bet would be PMing Soulmancer. Blue said he was not in command to do any changes yet on every proposal he replies it's not gonna happen - he doesn't "just" disagree as it'd be just a matter of one voice vs rest. You can get schizophrenia here, so better PM Terry with that question.


I think I read on a post that soulmancer has retired from this mod.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:20 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
So if you wanted a comparable balance, you would need to make every hell boss immune to all elements and boost the survivability of casters so that they could stand in front of a boss and tank.


Done, sorcs now get 5 life per vita point. However, to make them like melee's(worthy of the big life bulb), their spells now have limited range. Max ranged being "5", that of a pike. If they should have the life of a tank...they should have to tank to do damage.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:23 pm 
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throw barb

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 Post subject: Re: Can we fix boss physical resist?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:10 pm 
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The thing about casters though is they can maintain a safe distance from their opponents and they can also rape a screen full of enemies- melee characters have no choice but to get up close and personal and so they need life and defense to survive more so and are more so limited to single targets... I do believe melee characters are currently outclassed by casters; with the severe nerfing of crushing blow and amplify damage I think it would be more then reasonable to reduce physical resistances in regards to bosses. Physical character's really only saving grace vs bosses was CB... There are also some elemental melee classes that are fairly in effective.


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