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 Post subject: Multiplayer Impossible
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:01 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:55 am
Posts: 2
Me and a friend have been trying to beat the multiplayer for a couple months now. At first, we tried as many combinations of 2 people as we could think of and all failed.

Now, we have a 3rd. Hallelujah. But, we still find ourselves getting pawned hard. Currently, we are using a frenzy barb, nova sorc, and curse necro. We are willing to completely start over, as we already have multiple times.

What would be the best 3-man team you guys could think of? The only time we really have any trouble is on bosses. We need a boss killer.

Please help.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiplayer Impossible
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:26 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:28 am
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Location: Vancouver, BC
I suppose a Bone Necro and Poizon would be pretty effective, since one can always summon tanks while the other kills from very far away. The third person for the team is up to you. Consider a Meteor sorc since she can attack from very far for a lot of damage. Consider a FoH pally since he'll also attack at far range and probably have a decent Prayer aura with Meditation or Cleansing for the oddly strong poison damage of Hell. I'm sure a Barb or Druid for the life gain skills seems obvious, but I'm guessing that by now you guys know how to play with ranged attacks without being hit often (Oak, SoBarbs, and BO aren't too hard to come by late game if you really wanted them).

Most boss battles would be:
1) Necro casts Blades and LRes while the Zon casts PlagueJav and Decoy.
2) Necro casts Blades and BoneSpirit or BoneSpear while the Zon casts Decoy. Be careful that these battles will produce more counters attacks from bosses than in option (1), but this battle will probably only occur on a few occasions.

Just don't forget to include some -%MagRes in the Necro's gear, since act bosses are generally the only critters with pretty high magic res (higher than 50%). A 6 socket crystal sword (just buy in A2 and socket-quest in A5) with diamonds should handle that pretty easily.

You might find more information in the Strategy and Tactics forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiplayer Impossible
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:22 am 

Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:28 am
Posts: 41
You are right, OP. The multiplayer is very hard for the general player. It is even hard for good players. I think it is too hard on some of the act bosses.

The problem with it is that few people are able to get the gear, have the group and have the skill required to kill some of the act bosses unrushed. That includes most of these forum regulars that play on SC public, I think... they get rushed past the most difficult parts and then complain the game is too easy, because they get rushed when it is too hard. In my opinion and I have played alot of unrushed and aqcuired decent skill at these kinda games is that some of the act bosses ARE TOO HARD. The problem is that most people who refute it are skipping past the hard bosses by bringing in characters that are levels beyond the act level.

This means that they are listened to and it makes the game harder for most players who want to play unrushed. Some of the game simply is too hard to be a good game for most players, who want to play unrushed. And the people who are saying that the game is too easy, are listened to and bring up the difficulty, while they are skipping past the hard parts, whereever in the game they find them and making excuses for rushing past them. I've started playing again the last few days since sep and have stopped playing mostly again, simply because it is too time consuming and requiring to need, yes need, a very strong party setup for bosses like normal meph. There is too much of a bottleneck requirement for some things. If you don't have this, then you cannot do the boss regardless if you are some of the best players. Ability influences it very little on some of the hardest stuff, it is really so that you need some things that work on the boss, otherwise you will do not it.

I think it is fundamentally not better or worse to rush or not rush, if that is how you want to play. The problem is that people who do not want to rush even when they have tried the act bosses multiple times have a hard time finding a better group, because in my experience most people would rather get to the next act by rushing and experience that, or get some level or whatever, than try to beat a boss without unrushing.

An important issue with that is that it ramps up the difficulty on the stuff that they get rushed past, because they think it is too easy and don't recognize that the hardest parts of this game is when you are stuck at some act boss and you keep trying different stuff to get past it without rushing. Some of them then complain that the game is too easy, because they only play the easier parts unrushed.

I have played many acts and in all difficulties up to act 3 hell unrushed last season with multiple chars and I tell you that this game is too hard for general players. I played a lot in 2 months there and all my chars were stuck at some act boss and it took a lot of time and effort to just get past bosses in normal and nightmare.

I speak for this game to be playable for most people unrushed. At the moment, it takes too much time to get a good party setup for the boss imagining that most players on this mod are like players of other games, who play every now and then, some hours a day, a couple days of the week. Maybe most people don't want to kill the bosses unrushed and rather want to get to the next act rushed. Atm., it is too unreasonable to play unrushed, which is where the fun is to be had for me. I'm more interested in playing the game and beating the challenges in it and enjoying myself, than in getting to some higher act.

I think it would be better for the game overall if some of the act bosses are retuned, so that most players are able to kill them with reasonable effort.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiplayer Impossible
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
This mod is most certainly difficult - much more difficult than Battle.net. For some people, it will be impossible and while that is unfortunate, that isn't necessarily a problem. There are college courses, musical performances, athletic achievements, carpentry projects, and a wide range of other activities that are also impossible for some people. For others though, they provide a welcome challenge - a chance to test their skills and perseverance in a way that isn't normally open to them. This mod is and always has been for the more hardcore gamer. The person who seeks a greater challenge than b.net and is willing to invest the requisite time to accomplish that challenge. Make no mistake about it, there is a large time and perhaps an even larger amount of effort required to play this mod at its face value (which is why so many people try to dodge this and rush through the mod).

The mod (especially normal) is not impossible though. You may need to rethink your tactics, learn some new skills and ask some focused questions - all of which will take time and effort - but it is possible. I can tell you this not as someone who has been deluded in to thinking it is possible only after rushing past it and getting the powerful gear, but as someone who has faced the difficulty of this mod at face value. I am not a run of the mill gamer, I am a hardcore gamer. I take this more seriously than other people.

Use normal difficulty as a learning curve, because NM and Hell will be harder and will require you to have learned the lessons from Normal.


---

*edit*
One small adjustment - I do believe that the Baal quest is currently over the top and too difficult for the level of player seeking to accomplish the task. I find the room and boss configuration to be strategically limiting and a bit overpowering. In general though, it seems that I am in the minority with this view so I haven't pushed too much on it (see this poll: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=250). I will be extremely interested to see what this patch brings about though with the new realm restrictions preventing people from rushing past Baal.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiplayer Impossible
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:41 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:55 am
Posts: 2
Wow! Thanks guys for such wonderfully thought-out responses. I do appreciate all of them for what they offer.

I'll give a little more information about the problem we're facing: our current trio is *kind of* in hell mode. I say kind of, because our 4th time trying to beat the throne room/baal on nightmare, when we had finally beaten the throne room and had enough rejuvs to finish off baal, our nova sorc got a fatal error when picking up a potion. And he was the host. I told him not to push anything though and me(barb) and the necro were able to finish off baal with like 3-4 pots to spare. After it was all over, though, the sorc didn't get the quest and is still in nightmare. UGH.

The physical immune boss, the giant skeleton one, is ridiculously hard compared to the others. And it seems about 50% of the time he is also lightning immune. That 100% kills our team right there. We have to just rehost after making it so far and hope he isn't lightning immune the next time.

I'm currently taking pretty much all the bosses by using those unique djinn swords (don't remember) with 4 slots and filling them with skulls just so I can stand toe-to-toe with the insane dmg output of the act bosses. When those things start to fail, I don't know what we're going to do.

Oh, also, myriddn, I do consider myself pretty hardcore ;) I just can't devote too much time to this and so was wondering if there were some builds we had neglected to consider.
I'm currently about 2500-2600 diamond zerg in starcraft2 and our necro had a lvl 90 HC on battle.net back in the day. And our sorc was on my 4v4 halo team when we were one of the best teams in the nation. So, anyway, it's a hard mod! haha, cheers, and thanks again guys.


Last edited by danl9rm on Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiplayer Impossible
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 345
Location: Vancouver, BC
Barb Tank, Psn Nec, guided Zon (Would be a fun combo, everything covered)
psn nec, bone nec, meteor sorc (Fun too but not so much against immunes)
hammerdin,healer,meteor sorc(fun)

There are lots of good options you just have to make sure you choose a standard build that is strong enough to get you through the game. And also make sure you have varied types of dmg to cover the immunes.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiplayer Impossible
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:07 am
Posts: 237
Location: Hungary
The mod is hard. That is the goal. If you are here, that means (or should mean) that you want challenge. Sometimes you need lots of patience and endurance to beat some of the challenges, but they can be overcome.

Oh and btw, a good way to kill Achmel (the bone golem):
- Give physical characters sources of Sanctuary aura. Either make a diamond armor craft, a Sanctuary (KoKoMal) shield runword or use Azurewrath. This will allow you to ignore his physical resistance, which is pretty high.
- Have the necro spam life tap on him. This will allow the tanks to leech from him.

He shouldn't be hard this way. :)


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