Gates of Arimyth
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1.8 final test
http://forum.arimyth.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22781		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  1.8 final test
Your old test chars won't work with this version since I had to change the enhanced damage % to 255 max for balance purposes, but just test it quickly to make sure everything looks correct. I'll leave this here for a day or 2 then I'll send it to Duff if everything is good.

HiRes Music

Hi Res No Music


The best way to see what 1.8 is really like is just to play it. Anyways, 1.8 plays a lot like classic HU before 1.7. So you can forget about hidden passives/akara rings and pretty much the entire 1.7 metagame. However some things are the same:

The new maps and challenge area that came with 1.7 are still in 1.8.
Max res is 50, but can be raised to 55 with unique charms.


Features of 1.8:

Life for characters:
Paladin, Barbarian: 5 life per level / 3 life per vita
Amazon, Assassin, Druid: 4 life per level / 3 life per vita
Sorceress, Necromancer: 2.5 life per level / 3 life per vita

Mana for characters:
Sorceress, Necromancer, Druid: 4 per level / 3 per energy
Amazon, Assassin, Paladin: 2.5 per level / 2 per energy
Barbarian: 2 per level / 1 per energy

Rebalanced numbers on pretty much all skills and items
Max enhanced damage is now 255%
Health pots heal 60% hp over 6 seconds
Mana pots heal 200 + char lvl * 10 over 6 seconds
Removed damage synergies from spell damage skills; damage skills scale slightly with character level and base skill level
Drastically increased the strength and fortitude of bosses and especially act bosses compared to almost all recent versions of HU
Reverted hidden stat passives; what you see is what you get
Reduced the drops of "clutter" items. (this does not affect drop rates of other items)
Monster level scaling is reverted to the way it was before 1.7:
norm: 1-60
nm: 60-80
hell: 80-100


Boss rune drops:
Countess norm: eth - sol
Countess NM: ko - gul
Countess Hell: mal - Lo

Nihlathak norm: lum - ist
Nihlathak NM: um - sur
Nihlathak Hell: vex - cham

Sarina also can drop runes at an increased chance, but it is not guarenteed.


Notable skill changes:

Increased duration of most buffs, except Battle Orders/Enchant
Spirits unkillable and untargetable again
GA can pierce again
Vengeance and Stun have novas again
Ice blast releases mini ice bolts on hit
Impale and Berserk reduce the defense penalty with hard points
Fire Arrow, Cold Arrow and Magic arrow gain more arrows as they level up
Inferno now shoots multiple missles and hits once instead of doing damager per second
Static is now a nuke spell with a timer. It's similar to meteor shower, but lightning
Blade Fury does 1/2 weapon damage and gets up to 5 missiles
Blessed Hammer is now a level 1 skill
Smite is now level 12
Holy Shield smite damage is increased
Sacrifice deals 3/2 weapon damage
Bash deals 3/2 weapon damage
Concentrate deals 3/2 weapon damage
Berserk deals 3/2 weapon damage
Leap Attack deals 3/2 weapon damage
Buffed boots kick damage and increased kick skills enhanced damage %
Added more synergies between paladin auras and melee combat skills
Author:  Ensley03 [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
What does that mean, like 255% ED on rare/crafted? What other things were changed to test?
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
In 1.6 and before it was a 511 cap on ed%. 1.7 was balanced around 100% ed i believe. So I balanced 1.8 around 255 since its a combo of 1.5 and 1.7.

I meant to change it long before I released the test files to the public, but I forgot. It wasn't a big deal so i didn't fix it until the final version. It doesn't change anything besides stopping rares or crafts from spawning over 255% to keep them in line with sets/uniques/rws.

A shit load of things have been changed that's the entire point of the patch. Just play it.
Author:  Ensley03 [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
So like if a set weapon has 250% ED and 3 sockets (Natalya's Mark), you still can't up the ED beyond 255%? Or items just cant *spawn* with >255%, besides runewords? If you use a superior weapon with %ED and make a 250% runeword, does the game blow up? :P
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Its the same as before when the 511% was the max. You can go above the cap with sockets/sup base items. I thought you played d2 before? They let you make a patch? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  Ensley03 [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
I don't know what kind of hard caps you may have put in, all you said was 255 is max ED.

Redemption says it gains 50%/lvl dmg return from thorns but it does nothing. At least I had accurate tooltips. :D
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Finally some useful feedback
Author:  Ensley03 [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
It also appears that Salvation doesn't up the max resists in the window, they just turn blue and still say 66. Maybe it really does up them, but that "ast field" thingy is missing, you know what I mean.

I think the rate of fire on the assassin traps is probably too low and the velocity is kind of bad too. It feels like a serious handicap and is frustrating to use because it fires and travels so slowly. Especially for death sentry since you only get 1, and it takes so long to fart on corpses.

Cloak of Shadows gives you defense but it's not listed in the description.

It should be mentioned somewhere that Phoenix Strike only releases 1 effect based on your number of charges, if this was your intention, whereas the other 3 ele skills release all 3 on 3.

I guess Disease Spray caps out at 12 poison clouds but it's not listed.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Quote:
It also appears that Salvation doesn't up the max resists in the window, they just turn blue and still say 66. Maybe it really does up them, but that "ast field" thingy is missing, you know what I mean.

Base max res is 50. Max res cap is 66.

Quote:
I think the rate of fire on the assassin traps is probably too low and the velocity is kind of bad too. It feels like a serious handicap and is frustrating to use because it fires and travels so slowly. Especially for death sentry since you only get 1, and it takes so long to fart on corpses.

I'll change it back to pre 1.7 fire rates.

Quote:
Cloak of Shadows gives you defense but it's not listed in the description.

Fixed

Quote:
It should be mentioned somewhere that Phoenix Strike only releases 1 effect based on your number of charges, if this was your intention, whereas the other 3 ele skills release all 3 on 3.

Intended

Quote:
I guess Disease Spray caps out at 12 poison clouds but it's not listed.

Game is literally unplayable because of this. I quit. The poison damage doesn't increase based on how many missiles hit. I could add a desc for this in 1 minute but I won't even bother.
Author:  Kannli [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
ok. gonna look a bit on it. any different stuff altered but that 255% ed cap?
cheers
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
No just that. I meant to do it before but forgot
Author:  Zen1337 [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
I merged this files with my old 1,7 D2SE folder and I was still able to use cube to get uniques, just saying, so you dont get any unnessesary downtime.

Of course it can be my messed up installation.

:lol:

EDIT:

Blade fury does not pierce at all with 40% fade/Burst of speed pierce synergy
Author:  Ensley03 [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
I only mention things like Disease Spray because if it says +1 missile/2 lvls, it gives people a reason to bitch and moan when it suddenly caps at 12. I agree the skill is fine as it is, just trying to save you the grief, don't shoot the messenger.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Zen1337 wrote:
Blade fury does not pierce at all with 40% fade/Burst of speed pierce synergy


Fixed
Author:  Ensley03 [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
I am still a bit confused; you said the base resist cap is 50, max is 66 - but my Paladin says he has 66 resists with nothing but a resist charm, and with Salvation on, they still say 66, it just turns from gold to blue. Amazon and everyone else have 66 resist in every difficulty with no gear, just from charms, and the charms only add "all resistances" not resist cap buffs.

I have the d2mod from 7/24/17 that says
; Max Resist Cap (fire,cold etc) normal is 95
ResistCap=66
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
sounds like an installation issue, unless you are using some hacked charms or something.
Author:  Ensley03 [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Well yeah they are tester charms for testing with extra skills/resists etc, but that wouldn't cause this. I copied over all the files and now it works though. No idea what I was missing but all good now. :P
Author:  voidMXL [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
im having that 66 res thing as well, but no big deal since hopefully release version will be all-in-one
Author:  Kannli [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
been loking thru all chars but the assassin now. stuff looks fine, was wondering though if you lowered the hp gain from vitality.
Author:  muleofal [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Kannli wrote:
been loking thru all chars but the assassin now. stuff looks fine, was wondering though if you lowered the hp gain from vitality.


Should be 3 per point amongst all characters. I haven't tested anything since changes from last week
Author:  Kannli [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
ok then it looks ok for me.
Author:  Kruno [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Is it intended for Jav tree for amazons not to have any sinergies? referring to psn or lightning skills
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Yes, all spell damage synergies are gone
Author:  Ensley03 [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Sounds like it's done then. CALL IT IN, RED!
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Yeah, really close now. If no one else has anything else important and reasonable. I'm struggling to think of things myself. I know there will be a ton of things to edit for the next patch after people start seriously playing it, but that's another thing entirely.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Updated the download on OP. Added the change log from the download to the OP as well.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
I sent the files to Duff. It's in his hands now.
Author:  Ensley03 [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Do you need to post in the realm status thread to get his attention or anything? :P
Author:  Kannli [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
worth a try ;)
Author:  Ensley03 [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Seems that Redemption is still not fixed. Still says damage returned 1000%. You removed the skill synergy description but not the built in one.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Ops. No big deal. If it bothers people so much it can be fixed clientside
Author:  Ensley03 [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Yeah it doesn't matter, just throwing it out there.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Ya someone will fix it next go round
Author:  voidMXL [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
my friend started new char and asks why trash has so much hp :D
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
It really doesn't. My lvl 1 barb killed a zombie in 7 hits on /players 8 and it gave half a bar on xp. What more do you want? instant level 100?
Author:  voidMXL [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
nah just friends first impression :P

is it intended that assassin can use fade and burst of speed at the same time?
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
yes
Author:  Pako [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Hello guys. What about max lvl character ?
- Normal Max?
- Nightmare Max?
Because in 1.7 i can get lvl 90 easy finishing normal baal :/ and get almost all items from high lvl as well, so i just asking. :)
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
same as classic HU

norm: 1-60
nm: 61-80
hell: 80-100
Author:  DoubtFuLMind [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
@mrawskrad
all these versions..... So 1.8 is different than 1.7? even with your 1.7 patch applied?
Author:  Rix [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Dude, are you serious? Can you read first post in this topic?
Author:  nedder [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
put it up on the realm, not like anyone will miss the old build :evil:
Author:  Ensley03 [ Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
There is some goofed up stuff with the druid spirits. Like how spirit wolf does not increase thorns damage on SOB as listed, and some skill synergies benefit from soft points, others only hard points, but they don't say which. Oak Sage gets bonus replenish life from SOB soft points, but doesn't receive the bonus life on hit from HOW. HOW gets the replenish life from SOB soft points, but not the 1/2% life per lvl from Oak Sage. They don't mention anything about hard or soft points. SOB gets no soft point synergies. I also don't know why HOW says "Resist all: 33%" when the pet itself is invincible and it doesn't give you the resists. The abilities may be working correctly, but the descriptions are not great.

There are other things that I disagree with, but they are mostly just my opinions rather than nuisances. The skill system is very refreshing, but I feel the gear has taken a step back to before 1.6, at least prior to end-game. For example, no Assassin set until 85, and no javelin set until 85. The level 20 and 40 claws stink and are only for phys melee. You basically have to use some gambled rare or maybe a Malice rw, but Lawbringer - at 43 - is the only usable 3 socket weapon rw with pierce until 90, and that's -15% with 0 skills or +damage. So basically, using random rares with rubies in them until you find a zod, or just the Corsair set at 85. Meanwhile, there are 24 reasonable runewords (not counting ones like Spirit) that can be used in Bows that do not require a zod. 24!

Why should certain class/builds be so severely punished with lack of gear options? These are largely original oversights by Blizzard from eons ago. Sure, once you're level 100 with max gear, the difference is gone, but it would be nice to have fun while getting to that point.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Should have spoke up sooner about wanting those items. I openly worked on 1.8 for a month and a half and asked a few times for item suggestions.
Author:  Ensley03 [ Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Unfortunately I hadn't checked back here until this past week or so. But it might be ages before Duff comes back to even see your message. Make HU great again, like it was in uhh, 1.3
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Ensley03 wrote:
Unfortunately I hadn't checked back here until this past week or so. But it might be ages before Duff comes back to even see your message. Make HU great again, like it was in uhh, 1.3


1.3 never had those items...so I shouldn't add them.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Also for non zod rune claw runewords with pierce:

Deception (all)
Venom (psn)
Crescent Moon (lightning)
Shadow of Doubt (Magic)
Lawbringer (all)
Madness (magic)
Pestilence (psn)

Without pierce:

Black
Steel
Malice
Strength
King's Grace
Fury
Chaos
Shadow
Terror
Blood
Loyalty
Mystery
Wind

So bows have 24 and claws have 19. Not as big a difference as you seem to think.


Sets that javelin amazons and assassins can use that aren't class sets:

Forlorn Rogue
Warden's Watch
AlbrechtAnguish
Infernal Tools
Sentinel's Vestments
Asheara's Rig
Tancred's Battlegear
Sigon's Complete Steel
Cleglaw's Brace
Iratha's Finery
Isenhart's Armory
The Disciple
Cathan's Traps
Hwanin's Majesty
Cow King's Leathers
SoulmancerSet
ElementalSet
Klatu's Adornment

Javelin Amazon:

Hsarus' Defense (uses shield)
Heaven's Brethren (uses shield)
Orphan's Call (uses shield)

I'll end with this: You don't need a class item set for every single build for every point in the game. That's a boring game design. Mix and match uniques/rares/crafts/non class sets. It's more interesting and you'll find yourself using different items instead of the same set every time. Rares and crafts can be really good now.

Also, there are no class sets until 85. It's not like amazons and assassins are the only ones without class sets before 85. Everyone trying to be a victim these days.
Author:  Kruno [ Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
This is great. Can't wait to play. I will be playing in Australia timezone if there is people who want to join.
Author:  Ensley03 [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Indeed those items weren't in 1.3 but it was a decent patch people didn't complain about. Our needs have increased :P

Yeah it looks a lot better for phys sins, but the main point was for any ele builds, there's 1-2 rws, 1 unique, and 0 set weapons until 85+. The pierce prefixes are okay for rares or really lucky crafts.

But there's also no pierce mods for crafts and very limited spell damage/skills. The +8% dmg all chest is good but that is elite. The topaz crafts, 3% dmg, no other mods...not sure if this is ever worth it regardless of the bonus random mods. If the newbie runes still had damages (like 3% fire damage for Ral in armor/helm/shield) you could dump them in a topaz crafted helm and have 15% fire damage. By the time you got the crafted helm, 4 Rals, and 2 quads, I'd say that is a fair price. But without that, I don't see any real benefit to that craft.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
I added pierce to uni claws and changed some low rws to give pierce and added a new lvl 51 rw for 3 sock melee weapons. Since duff didn't comeback yet. I'll post details later. Pls no qq
Author:  Ensley03 [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
That sounds good. One cool thing also could be to change Civerb's weapon to a ceremonial javelin and make the set lightning+poison focused, if you have time.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Why not change it to a wand and make it psn and magic focused? Or change it to a maul and make it for barbs. Or change it to an orb and make it for sorcs? When does it end? Class sets are boring. Look at D3.

I would rather change it to an armor piece so any class can use it with any weapon.
Author:  Ensley03 [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Well the primary logic is to add more versatility for newer and more casual players to reach that end game content, so it's not just the same 10 guys who power through the game. There will be new players because I do a lot of advertising on Twitch. There were a lot of new players in 1.6, but my mistakes causing resets made a lot of people give up. I've been humble enough to tell them that someone better than me is making a new patch, and maybe if those lower-mid levels are a bit more...sugar coated, they will stick it out til the end.

People like you and me and Pious and others don't care about these things because we can just plow through to hell fairly quickly, but if you want new blood in the game, you have to spoon feed them through normal. Make them feel invested and committed. Ya dig?

P.S. That's also not a bad idea for Civerb's, or it could be a harpoon, and change the shield to a helm or belt, then it also works for throw barbs :P
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
You missed the point of HU if you change the game based on your statements about catering to casuals. Almost every single game has been ruined by catering to casuals. HU isn't about that. If you think it is then you should go make your own version. I will never cater to casuals in my edits. I mod the game for myself and the other people who have been playing this mod since beta. Not some scrubs who will come play it for a couple weeks cry that its too hard then quit. This mod isn't for them and it never was meant to be. That is why we keep coming back to HU.

HU is meant to be hard but its definitely not impossible. People get that taste of hard earned victory when they overcome a boss for the first time and its a great feeling. And in that moment they get hooked and that's the kind of players we want in the community. Not "casual" players that need quest markers and compasses to guide them and pre-made gear sets that tell you how to play the game. So you can't possibly make a wrong decision and have to learn something to advance.

If you want a watered down casual Arpg go play PoE, D3, any other d2 mod, etc.
Author:  Ensley03 [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
It's more like catering NORMAL mode - at least up until A5 - to casuals. Get them invested with time and some gear, THEN throw the brick wall at them. People are much more likely to keep playing based on how much they've already invested. If new players get dumpstered by Duriel in normal then they feel it's not much of a loss to just give up at that point. This is just smart marketing to sustain a larger community, unless you are content with only a handful of diehard HU players based on a moral highground of "our mod is the hardest in normal".
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Normal is already the easiest. Get good.

Catering to casuals ruins games. Go make your own patch if you don't like this one. Oh wait...
Author:  Ensley03 [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Oof - it's not about me :( Nevermind.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
You're right. Its about the players who have been playing HU for 12 years.
Author:  Ensley03 [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
All 4 of them.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Shows how out of touch you are
Author:  DoubtFuLMind [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
so can this version be soloed?
Author:  Ensley03 [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
No, not really. Sort of if you are overgeared enough, but in all likelihood you're going to eventually find the wrong immunities on the wrong boss and get stuck.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
DoubtFuLMind wrote:
so can this version be soloed?


It can and has been soloed on multiple melee builds, but it is not easy. It's not for the weak of heart.
Author:  voidMXL [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
when talking about newcomers i dont think its all the mod itself thats too hard

what this mod needs since a long time ago is to have guides that tell people about some basic strategies.
guides exist for game mechanics and ubers, yes, but they are not at a central and easily accessible point thats trustworthy aka in the docs. what im talking about also is gearing options and where to best get that gear fast. also playstyle tips/char guides when starting new and in preparation for bosses.
"gamble/shop a weapon with at least 20 max dmg when you start your physical damage melee class, scepters are good" is the kind of tip that helps new players more than making any changes to the mod. im not saying that because currently there is a lack of good information and guides about the mod means that the mod itself cant be improved, but rather that this lack of info is linked to people getting rekt and quitting that is caused in that case by a lack of knowledge rather than anything being wrong with the mod

apart from playstyle the biggest thing that sets veterans apart from newcomers is the difference in knowledge about useful facts about the game.
something that helps new players not to waste time on stupid shit.
like "your first assassin" --> can shop katars
"your first paladin" --> can shop scepters
"your first nec" --> can shop wand and shield
"your first char in general" --> here is some useful info so you dont waste your time, and some other useful info so you have a better experiece (e.g. use bash as a barb in these situations)
"requirements for ubers" --> do that quest for being able to enter samhain portal (to this day i have not found a source that says it clearly what quests your actually need, only some guesses) some vital info is spread across the forum in an erratic way. there was even a topic that got stickied that was made this year viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16842 that shows a profoud failure in proper documentation. this type of information should be easily and VISIBLY accessible in the webpages rather than needing an external source. you download the mod, you should have this information

so some info about features of the mod such as uber existence, uber requirements and a rough outline of what the level challenges are about, things like that should be in the webpages.
and for sharing useful strategies/gear tips and guides thats up to the experienced members of the community
Author:  Bahookay [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Yeah, I've played both this mod and Median for a number of years, and two things have always shocked me about the difference between the communities. One being the near non-existence of basic documentation. The other being how hostile the vets are towards new players trying to learn. It makes it seem like a number of the vets are totally OK with how insular and tiny the HU playerbase is because "get good".
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
All you need for hu is basic d2 knowledge. Median is an entirely different game. Which is why it needs so much documentation. In Hu you just need the item database and a brain.

Also, no one is stopping you guys from writing guides for newbies, if it's so important.
Author:  voidMXL [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
its not like new players cant come up with something, its just that they either dont want to put in the effort or they make mistakes.
but giving gameplay direction vs straight up information is quite different. i can tell that you are not in favor of giving gameplay advice and thats acceptable, i think youre completely wrong and it hurts the community to dismiss it, but if thats what you think then fair enough.
but in terms of easily accessible info you benefit everyone by putting the details about ubers, they are a feature of this mod after all, as well as the timeless facts like ow damage, into the webpages and ending the uncertainty and forum searching. this makes the mod more accessible, it doesnt make the mod easier, its just less of a pain to search everything together or finding out about it on accident.
literally no reason not to put this info into the docs, why you put up this resistance against making it nice i cant even
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Because no one is paying me to do all this you entitled brat

Nothing stopping you from doing it but you would rather cry about it
Author:  Bahookay [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Quote:
Nothing stopping you from doing it but you would rather cry about it

Not my edit, not my responsibility. I play with 2 or 3 friends and couldn't give a shit about the community growing. I was merely commenting on the interesting dichotomy between:

1.) The general lamenting I see of nobody playing on the HU servers when the game is designed to be basically unplayable solo
and
2.) The open hostility so many vets display towards people who don't know the mod/d2 as well as they do.

Diablo 2 has basically 0 skill involved, like every other ARPG its all game knowledge and character building, so statements like "Get Good" make you look like a total moron.

Quote:
Because no one is paying me to do all this you entitled brat


Stop taking everything as a personal attack, no one is demanding you do anything you arrogant twat, this is literally a thread where you asked for suggestions, calm yourself.
Author:  Ensley03 [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Image
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
You wondered why I cant possibly do it myself. So I told you. I didn't ask for suggestions in this thread. Just checking for errors. Hu is a niche mod of a 16 year old game. Get real. People like it or they don't. I'm not going to hold someone's hand and hope they stay. No one asking me to do this? You've implied heavily that I should and I'm 100% Wrong and I should care about people who have never played d2 somehow finding Hu on their own.

I'm not against it if someone else does it, but I won't do it. And the endless bitching about it does nothing.
Author:  Ensley03 [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
You both have a point to a certain extent.

Bahookay wrote:
1.) The general lamenting I see of nobody playing on the HU servers when the game is designed to be basically unplayable solo
and
2.) The open hostility so many vets display towards people who don't know the mod/d2 as well as they do.


1. Yes, the mod is supposed to be hard.
2. Yes, most of the vets are douche bags. They generally contribute nothing until they find something to complain about, and then shit on people who aren't vets. Welcome to every community of every game ever.

Bahookay wrote:
Diablo 2 has basically 0 skill involved, like every other ARPG its all game knowledge and character building, so statements like "Get Good" make you look like a total moron.


IMHO the only games that ever truly took any skill are Dark Age of Camelot, HON, Starcraft/2, and CSGO. Most every other game is memorization through repetition on par with a monkey stacking shapes in the correct spaces. However, since you understand that HU is not a competitive esport, why do you guys want a guide? Why are you comparing this mod to other mods with guides? Other mods use skills that look like they belong in a Final Fantasy game, not D2, and have ridiculous item/gear building tricks, stacking auras and other abusive tactics that, yes, are discovered from guides. If I had to write a guide for HU, I have no idea what I'd say besides "it's like a second D2 expansion with higher difficulty." Does that help?

Mrawskrad wrote:
Didn't ask for suggestions in this thread. Just checking for errors. Hu is a niche mod of a 16 year old game. Get real. People like it or they don't. I'm not going to hold someone's hand and hope they stay. No one asking me to do this? You've implied heavily that I should and I'm 100% Wrong and I should care about people who have never played d2 somehow finding Hu on their own.


I agree this mod doesn't need a guide because, as I said, it isn't some insane alternate universe like other mods where a guide really helps. However, you get too upset about this stuff. It's bad for your blood pressure. Also, the people who "somehow" find HU are hearing about it on Twitch, and other nerd communication things like Discord groups. So there are new players who haven't played D2 for 10+ years, say they've never heard about HU, and are very curious about it. They don't really need a guide, but if they come here just to get told to "get good", they might not stay to help sustain a population. I know you're going to say that you don't care about crybaby casuals, but I actually enjoy joining populated games with players on different classes instead of seeing 3 people in 1 private game, 3 more people in 3 private games, and playing by myself. So my response to that would be "get single player".
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Its the nature of HU. Most gamers, especially Diablo 2 players, want an easy game and to be rushed to endgame and they totally miss the point of HU. If you want more people then you need to make it faceroll easy but if you make HU faceroll easy then it's not HU anymore.
Having a guide for new players won't increase the population because it will be too much effort for those weaker players. Players that like the hard difficultly won't need a guide anyways.

Look at the new POE patch. People are already crying that the final boss is too hard.

Maybe median players need to be told to buy a katar on an assassin though. Idk. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  Ensley03 [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
The problem with POE is it's always gotten worse for HC players, but the game is dumb on SC. All of the gimmicks and 1 shots make HC retarded, but SC is just braindead, so it's a bad game.

As far as the guide goes, maybe we need a guide that just says "if you've ever played D2, you don't need a guide."
Author:  Kannli [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Lets make (will edit this one come with some views if needed)
a quick guide for hu newcomers :

play in a duo or team unlike other mods d2 alike its meant for teambased play, soloing can be done but its not recommended in the long run.
dont use private games the population of players are small and most are
helpfull sorta 8-)
pick a char you would like to try
go through areas and dont skip any quests
try to evaluate your choices in stat allocation and skills invest
gambling is possible
farming and mf should be pretty ez compared to other d2 although stuff wont fall every time if your soloing a trash area slap on some mf gear.
Divide loot, no need to let stuff rot on mules, if you pickup stuff you dont need give it to your team mates or someone on the realm that is in need of it ie share with the ones in the game, stuff are gonna rot on mules and no one cares how many zods you got.

Try to prepare for the bosses, have enough pots , some boss fights can take a while so having a cube filled with pots isnt a bad option
always make certain the boss lvl isnt outmatching the team, if your not in lvl range go back and farm areas you can complete.
try to think of combinations in the team that can survive bosses, dont be a leeroy unless you like to die alot.

Shields are available, stack resists and be aware of the dmg output of the bosses , if its a lightning boss , dont wear fire absorb , wear lightning res / sorb rings
use lifeleech if your a meleechar
dont camp on a boss cuz it will kill you if you just stand still and hope your team kills it for ya.
be aware of your role
is it a hybrid , a caster , a tank or a support, is it a mix. just give it some thought before goin into ie baals bridge. cheers.

Crafting is a part of the game ,look into webpages for recipes or ask people on realm.

its not rocket science but it can be tough sometimes, be patient and dont die to a fallen ;)
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
See, Kannli is a really nice vet. We aren't all like me. :lol:
Author:  Ensley03 [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
So Mraw have you been able to edit those descriptions and that assassin stuff yet?

Also is there an over/under bet running for if Duff ever comes back? :P
Author:  voidMXL [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
why is it that hammerdin deals damage more reliably when you leave a delay between hammer casts? when you hold the button down it feels like every 2nd or 3rd hammer doesnt do any damage and giving it the delay seems to kill monsters in less casts and sometimes seemingly taking less time. when you cast 1 hammer per second each of them does do damage. i noticed this when fighting various enemies so i did some testing and fast casting takes about 20%-50% more casts for the kill, how can this be explained?

lol @kannli some of that is actually pretty good starter info for somebody who doesnt know what is coming their way :P

@mrawskrad im not here to pick any fights. when i say that i disagree with you or what i think "should be done", then this is not meant to be binding for you, you dont have to do anything that is against your principles. im merely stating my opinion on what i think is the best course of action for the mod, and i take it for granted that you can viciously disagree with me on that as long as you are not convinced otherwise. this is not a matter of life and death, even if the community shrinks either way i will want to keep playing hu, just that i care more about community than you do doesnt mean that if i dont get my way that im gonna worry about it lol. its also nothing against your person or related to any other issue other than the issue at hand and trying to give reasons as to what makes either opinion more correct. "more correct" because partially i can understand how you think that this mod cant grow a sizeable community but still think that the situation can be improved. as far as im concerned at this point we cant reconcile this matter and simply disagree, and thats that. youve started to say things far beyond what i was going for. i didnt have the intention for it to turn into this mess
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Yeah, I totally don't care about the hu community. You got it. :roll:


The hammers might have nhd. I would have to check. I'm on my phone now.
Author:  voidMXL [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
it would be surprising because the 3.5 txt files are empty in nextdelay and nexthit for missiles.txt blessed hammer. maybe its just getting interrupted a lot, if no cause can be found i might be able to make a comparison video by tomorrow
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Yeah I didn't think they had nhd, but you never know what someone else might have edited. That's strange though. I have to test it myself when I have time.
Author:  Kannli [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
i noticed the same on hammers a while back, altho having the max fcr seemed to be the most optimal at most areas, block and defense on mobs / bosses might come in to play?
Author:  Ensley03 [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
It's irrelevant anyways because Duff is never coming back :P
Author:  SchindlersFist [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Can you reupload 1.8? Says file not found!
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Ya, try it now.
Author:  SchindlersFist [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Thank you friend!
Author:  Ensley03 [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Did you change anything yet?
Author:  voidMXL [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
vid https://youtu.be/0Jq3cK_w5lI
something is off about it. this can be repeated on pretty much anything like the countess and always does it take more casts when casting fast.
im thinking more and more that the hammer animation is just getting interrupted from casting nonstop. the best way to know would be from a dummy enemy that doesnt attack, hmm
Author:  kramuti [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Look at your spiral of hammers. In the first attemp the vast majority are missing everything.
Author:  voidMXL [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
the only intended target is the boss
Author:  Zen1337 [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Its fine, hammers work as standard d2 lod.

The first point of impact is directly north, as the hammers spawn directyl north from the position of your character.

Your hammerdin was not correctly possitioned.


As to the whole get good dilema. Basic guides are available around on this forum, and on one of the hu websites, some of that info as to strategy and tactics is still relevant today, one thing I can add that has been mentioned many times before... Absorb gear is super usefull, and bossfights are usualy done after the preparation of specific gear, usualy with absorb, curse or poison leght reduce, block and other mechanics according to encounters.

Its important to do the challeneges and try to gather every little advantage you can get in order to progress. its not standard d2lod.

One of the cool thing about Hu is actualy the lack of guides for me personaly as, with every new reset and balance patch Im able to do my testing, number crunching to find the build I will enjoy the most and that will be most effective

I personaly rly enjoyed 1.7, and there was few people that found builds that rly worked well on the patch, it was very radical patch when it rly shake up things to the point people had no clue how to play, the harder it is the more I enjoy it but thats the way I like it. It was super fun to play in party and try to literaly battle your way to tamoe highlands once our small party reached hell. It was epic, hehe

Look at whats happening in poe. every patch there are guides and builds after which whole comunity just plays those builds, that were prepared by some dude who did all the brain work. then the same people complain that the game is easy. When i played poe I never ever followed a single guide.

creating a character thats fun and effective on new patch is half the fun.
Author:  voidMXL [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j70UucDWFWw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFIY4agFn0k

with my dmg for fast casting hammer it takes closer to 30 casts, for slow casting its closer to 20 and you can repeat it and switch out the order of the statues the result is the same. imo if you can do it better you should test this yourself and post the video
Author:  Ensley03 [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
What is with this new replenish life stuff? level 41 werewolf gives rep life +49650 but its not even very good, lol. That's a crazy number.

Barb descriptions are totally geeked out. Concentrate says +93/3 weapon damage, lol, but it doesn't actually give that much. Leap Attack says +700/3 :o

All the skills say stuff like +2-0 magic damage from Berserk. Shout says +5475% defense. Find Potion says 270%. Find Item says 2%. Iron skin and natural resistance say nothing.

Dragon Talon says 200+ kicks. Phoenix Strike, WB, Dragon Tail, many other Assassin skills say nothing.

Probably more problems. WHY YOU DO THIS?
Author:  Kannli [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
doesnt say that here . is your installation correct ensley?
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Calm your tits. The last upload I did must be messed up for some reason. Wait for me to upload a new one. Takes time. My internet is shitty right now.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
uploaded new now.
Author:  SchindlersFist [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
My Potions are under "An evil force" I think even scrolls are too. Anyone else got this?
Author:  DuFFBeeR [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Realm reset with current v1.8. Enjoy.
Author:  voidMXL [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
thanks duffbeer! hype! :D

one thing i want to ask still is, does energy shield not have mana drain reduce with es/tk investment anymore? when maxing out all skills it still the same ratio as lvl 1
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
its always the same now. so you can choose low % or high % es.
Author:  Zen1337 [ Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Its on boys damn and I have still full day at work... >.<
Author:  Ensley03 [ Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Hooray
Author:  SchindlersFist [ Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Mrawskrad wrote:
its always the same now. so you can choose low % or high % es.


Why are some items under An Evil Force?
Author:  Ensley03 [ Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Make sure you have the updated patch installed correctly.
Author:  Ensley03 [ Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Is there a level requirement to get to tobial or something? I can't get to him without getting ported away and I'm level 23.

Edit: I got past it eventually, but something is broken in the catacombs of anguish before you get to Tobial. It just rubberbanded me back over and over until i kind of hugged the edges slowly.
Author:  Ensley03 [ Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
We might need a ninja fix for this. The catacombs of anguish zone is fucked. Maybe brevan or purerage did something for 1.7 in that zone that mraw didn't know and the terrain is overlapping somehow.

I don't know how this just came up though; I did several runs to Andy during testing and this never happened.
Author:  kramuti [ Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
I was looking at druid skills, and it says that armageddon is syngergized by frost bite and hurricane is synergized by fire claw.
Author:  Mrawskrad [ Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
just for the duration.
Author:  kramuti [ Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.8 final test
Ya, just making sure it was intended to be that way.
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