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 Post subject: My feedback on HU 1.7
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:04 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:09 am
Posts: 146
Minor things,not real issues.

Skills dont mention their lvl requirement :)

Are there plans to make healing or even Rejuv potions cubeable? like combine 3 to create one.

Is it normal that REjuv potions cannot be cubed to create better quality potions?

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Problems most D2 mods have but before i go to that part i want to say that really wanted to play HU 1.7 cause there were no skill prerequirements like in so many other mods.

Now on the problems i see with D2 and many other mods.
Maybe back then D2 was ok but for todays standards the usual formula for D2 modding is simply old. Because the truth is that there are MANY games out there and ppl DO compare games even if they say they dont, they do. The negative aspects i find about HU 1.7 is the same i found in many other D2 mods. Its the lack of unique ideas, of innovation. And i dont want to sound as an asshole, i myself tried to mod and i realized how hard it is and time consuming since i never really developed anything. So i can imagine how much time and effort developers put in their mods and in no way i want to be disrespectful.
Anyway, below is the list of some things i consider negative about D2 in general and i have seen in many other mods.


1)TOO MANY charms taking inventory space (awfully annoying !!). Something must be done.

Solutions/Ideas.

-reduce charms drop chance A LOT

-make charms cubeable

-limit the amount of charms having in inventory at any given time. For example, max 3 big, max 3 medium and max 3 small.

-make charms unique items and maybe some charms come with negative effects as well? dunno


2)Classes not being unique enough
Whenever i play try a mod i cant help myself but to compare that mod with a mod i once tried and that mod is Hell's Revenge. In HU classes were unique in a sense that
for example Barb was awful with bows, i think he had big chance to hit and attack speed penalties when he carrying a bow. And prob he had some penalties with other
weapons as well. So whats good in that? well the good is that the developer tried to give an identity to each class, to make it actually FEEL like a CLASS! For example, Barb is supposed to be this melee savage, so he made Barb bad with bows/crossbows.
On the other hand he was getting some bonuses when whielding two-hands and duals, not sure tbh which exact weapon types.
I played only barb so i cant speak for other classes and this is all i remember, but i think you get the idea.

3)Consumables. Healing pots, Poisons pots, Molotovs etc.
I never liked the spam of healings in D2, i think its one of its WEAKEST points. And i suggest an idea for HU 1.7 regarding potions but well.
Molotovs and poison potions drop too often and they can easily replace my base weapon. So i end up a Barb that should be playing with swords and axes but plays with molotovs and poison gasses...

Solutions/ideas

-Make all kinds of consumables purchaseable only? this will give value to gold.

-Have a specific stat requirement to make use of molotovs and poison gasses? I think DEX should work fine and it should be really HIGH so that not every class can randomly use them.

-dunno what else...

4)Two handed melee weapons useless compare to one handed.
One mod i remember that balanced this issue well was Eastern Sun. In every other mod since i always start a Barb first i find myself using bows/crossbows, 1h+shield or duals wayyy better option that a 2h. Which is shame, cause at least for Barb 2H should be main option along with dual and 1h. but now it simply isnt. And please dont compare uniques. Uniques are uniques... lol... What you should compare are the basic stats of these weapons.

5)Trash mobs totally waste of time and offering nothing.

Solutions/ideas.

-Reduce the amount of trash mobs and improve their Ai, give them skills etc.

6)Add more passive skills to encourage builds. Those passive wont work as talent-trees but instead with syngeries. Boosting the already existing skills or simply giving you other stats.
Or add a new form of passives, passives with negative effects along with positive (dunno if this is a good idea but its an idea i had :D )

7)I have an idea regarding items and how to make them more interesting (you can do this for every type of item or just Rares, maybe better just for rares). Randomize the stats scaling. What do i mean?. For the example i will take Saber's damage.
If lets say normally a Saber drops with 5-15 damage. Now it will have a chance to drop with increased damage.
50% chance to drop with 20% increased dmg (6-18)
30% chance to drop with 40% increased dmg
10% chance to drop with 60% increased dmg
5% chance to drop with 100% increased dmg

Keep in mind this will be the basic stats of the Saber. Not the magic properties it might have on it.

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General feedback on your HU 1.7


Seems too easy. Maybe its because i tend to overfarm but still it was easy from the begining.

Items' properties are very high. I already have like +60% Attack speed and 40% hit recovery and resists etc.

Run speed is too fast and items scale it even more. Same goes for Stamina.

Why there is no TP?...


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 Post subject: Re: My feedback on HU 1.7
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 1113
Location: Vancouver, BC
DoubtFuLMind wrote:
Skills dont mention their lvl requirement :)
This line of the skill description usually lied anyways, so it was removed. For example, if the skill said "Needs level 8", but you equipped a +Skill item, then that skill would erroneously claim "Needs level 9". That line of description became even more misleading since in v1.7 you can only invest in a skill once per two levels. In HUv1.7, the skill's skilltab position determines it's base level (except WakeOfFire, it's a level 6 skill but appears in the row for level 12 by accident).

Are there plans to make healing or even Rejuv potions cubeable? like combine 3 to create one. Is it normal that REjuv potions cannot be cubed to create better quality potions?
From what I've read, HU after v1.3 removed rejuvs entirely with the intention of reducing GodMode hacks, so I wouldn't expect these changes. In v1.7 Rejuvs act in a slightly different way than in v1.3, which hopefully made GodMode hacks unuseable, but also added quirks to Rejuvs. Your suggestions are reasonable for a Solo edition, but from what I've seen of SC Multiplayer lately, many players are after the fastest gameplay experience possible (i.e. fewer and easier monsters, more FRWalk, more spell-spamming, less gear or loot management, etc), so these suggestions would slow the team down as players cubed stuff.

1)TOO MANY charms taking inventory space (awfully annoying !!). Solutions/Ideas.
-reduce charms drop chance A LOT
-make charms cubeable
-limit the amount of charms having in inventory at any given time. For example, max 3 big, max 3 medium and max 3 small.
The first two ideas would not reduce the number of charms in the inventory. I'm not aware of a method to limit the number of charms in inventory besides increasing their size or reducing the inventory. I was considering making charms cubeable like I did for rings, amulets, and jewels, but since there's no Rare charms I decided to not bother. Cubing recipes like these only effectively increase the number of charms (more than doubles the number of rare rings, jewels, and amulets).

-make charms unique items and maybe some charms come with negative effects as well? dunno
Removing magic charms entirely, and replacing with several Unique charms with the "carry 1" option would be a good way of limiting the inventory space used by charms, and might also be used to reduce the floor litter from monster drops. This is a good idea, especially from a balance-design point of view, but it's up to the folks behind v1.8 and v1.9 if they'd like to include it. I'm not sure if folks could get around the "Carry 1" limitation via the trade window though, they certainly could if these charms were cubeable.


Solutions/ideas
...
-Have a specific stat requirement to make use of molotovs and poison gasses? I think DEX should work fine and it should be really HIGH so that not every class can randomly use them.
Throwing potions are remarkably hard-coded. I was able to reduce the level of poison potions to be suitable for their effects, but that's it. I wanted to encourage a "Throw-Pot Barb" concept, since it sounded novel, but I couldn't create new throwing potions (I could at least edit the damage and level of the fire potions). I don't think I experimented with stat requirements, but I wanted every class to be able to use them in v1.7, at least for the start (some builds can't unlock one of their skills until skill level 18). I'd agree that these potions make the very early game pretty easy, but that part of the game gets very repetitive if you're trying to play every build, so I may as well try to make it over quickly.

...
5)Trash mobs totally waste of time and offering nothing.
-Reduce the amount of trash mobs and improve their Ai, give them skills etc.
HUv1.7 does have smaller mobs that HUv1.3 did, but it's a pretty slight change (e.g. spawns of 4 rather than 5-6). I've noticed SC parties often ignore killing monsters, and they end up under leveled for the areas they might end up in. I'm not convinced that trash mobs are a waste of time, but you are welcome to paraphrase the issue with examples.

6)Add more passive skills to encourage builds. Those passive wont work as talent-trees but instead with syngeries. Boosting the already existing skills or simply giving you other stats.
Or add a new form of passives, passives with negative effects along with positive (dunno if this is a good idea but its an idea i had :D )
As long as the new passives don't use States (i.e. they function as synergies for other passives or skills), then it should be possible to add more passives. In some ways "-%CastingDelay" and "+SpellDuration" achieves this effect for spells, but I considered stats like "+%HP for Summons" and "+1 SkeletonMage". I'd try to stay away from effects that change the game by more than 25-33% otherwise they start to dominate strategies. I've used oSkills to encourage novel builds when they occurred to me, but consider posting a detailed suggestion in the Suggestions forum, perhaps the developers of v1.8 would like it.


General feedback on your HU 1.7

Seems too easy. Maybe its because i tend to overfarm but still it was easy from the begining.
HUv1.7 was balanced for 1-3 players, so I agree that it isn't especially hard if you're well geared and exploring options. Some players are being challenged by the changes though, so maybe v1.9 will be a harder version of v1.7.

Items' properties are very high. I already have like +60% Attack speed and 40% hit recovery and resists etc.
Effects that exist as a percentage are easily maxed in the early game, but it isn't easy to get a higher percentage end-game. This is because I decided that a +33% effect was just as important to a level 1 char as to a level 99 char. You might have trouble maxing your resistances in Hell, but maybe only when you're under the effects of monster auras and curses. For mods like FHRecovery and FBRate, I purposely gave large mods because these effects do not appear exploitable and help make the game easier for new players. Effects that add a flat number do scale as the game progresses.

Run speed is too fast and items scale it even more. Same goes for Stamina.
From what I've seen in SoftCore, this was the right change to make. Consider walking rather than running since it preserves your Block% and AC. There are exploits with FR/Walk, but I believe to achieve high levels of this (200%) you'd need to sacrifice defensive and even offensive mods. As long as players trade some effects for others (they can't be both durable and powerful), then I think it's alright.

Why there is no TP?...
HU has never had TP. There is a "ReturnTomb" charm dropped by Leoric (Cathedral under Tristram) that will return you to RogueCamp.


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 Post subject: Re: My feedback on HU 1.7
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:30 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
Posts: 969
Quote:
HUv1.7 does have smaller mobs that HUv1.3 did, but it's a pretty slight change (e.g. spawns of 4 rather than 5-6). I've noticed SC parties often ignore killing monsters, and they end up under leveled for the areas they might end up in. I'm not convinced that trash mobs are a waste of time, but you are welcome to paraphrase the issue with examples.


When we played you sat around killing stragglers and ended up getting outleveled by a pretty big margin. Where as I was at level for the content.

4 mobs instead of 6 isn't a small amount less, it's a pretty big deal. But the less mons that exist the less reason to kill a pack because the kill time is almost always the same and it's just less exp.


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 Post subject: Re: My feedback on HU 1.7
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:10 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:09 am
Posts: 146
About trash mobs
ColdCrow !! When i killed her i think i was 16 or 17 she gave me 1.5 lvls! (player 8 enabled i think). No trash mob can be compared to the amount of exp she gave me :)

BTW can u make trash mobs follow you "EVERYWHERE"? just like in Diablo 1.
This will make the gameplay way more interesting and challenging sometimes.
If you do something like this then u can even reduce the density.

-----

I cant speak for balance, those were just my newbie observations at low lvls. I mean i dont even know how much items' properties scale in later lvls. Anyway.
What i also want to say is that i want hard games, i honestly dont like easy games, they seem waste of time to me. I also play The Hell (Diablo 1 mod). That game is HARD!! and i love it. But ofc this is just me :)


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 Post subject: Re: My feedback on HU 1.7
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:37 pm
Posts: 17
I could write several pages of my concerns but i want to keep it simple:
-Could you please revert the mod to 1.3?
-Could you please leave HU alone and start a new mod under a new name with your unique ideas?

Since Mancer left, this mod is going downhill with every single patch. People already left, and will never come back, because this mod isn't what they used to be anymore.

HU was my favourite mod back then, now i have absolutely no intention to play this garbage.

I've patiently waited to The Patch that will fix everything, but now i see you just took a completely different direction with this mod, and it only has the name of HU.


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 Post subject: Re: My feedback on HU 1.7
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:44 am
Posts: 96
All I can say is wow, realy? can you people even think out side the box ?

Personaly I think 1.7 is a breath of fresh air. Tons of new items combinations, everything very well balanced so far.

New synergies, and hybrids classes, synergy less also available.

+ 1 for the itemization balance, I love that there is not absolute fotm gear, you just gota find the right balance of stats. Experiment THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.

Massive amounts of items, with very interesting possibly build enabling stats, add to that no constrains on synergies ( to a degree ) and you can have fun for months and months.

The only problem I have is with prices of pots in Nightmare. since the 1.6k one in a1 disappears, after first purchase, you are left with the 3k+. Which for a pot hungry class, can be insane to sustain. But then again you can build your char around that to not drain so much pots, I take it as a challenge.

So what is HU? or what was HU?

Story, hardcore encounters, epic music, battling through insanely difficult levels, new interesting gear, pushing your char to the limit to be able to progress...

This is HU for me and 1.7 definitely delivers that, with a new spin.


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 Post subject: Re: My feedback on HU 1.7
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:30 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
Posts: 969
I would be fine with tweaks, but brevan seems uninterested in feedback and just shoves this shit down our throats.

There really is no difference in items. You gear much the same way, it's just adjustments to numbers. One incredible problem is the lack of caster gear, half of the item slots are just res items which makes it bland. Instead of choices between res and damage(aka skills) it's all just res.

The new synergies are primarily problems in core design. You can't run a hybrid elemental build efficiently because the damage of elemental builds are weighted on pierce and % increases to damage. Even if it was functioning, it merely takes away from group play, since immunes are easily dealt with on a dual elemental build. Synergies are a legitimate problem and could be best described as lazy. Damage profiles are vastly fucked up because he followed this retarded aoe, single target scheme without regards to how skills function.

The only thing hard about 1.7 is the willpower to keep picking up pots and drinking them like I am some fucking mana addicted blood elf. I walk around at level and nothing does damage because of massive pdr. I have no real gear choices, there are clear and obvious winners. Gems give no real benefit beyond a few choices. No more life vs pdr, no more mana from sapps, just gem raltalortthul for damage or diamonds for defense. Runewords are literally all but dead, the only one mildly worth using is cta, which is just something you slap on to bo and then replace with a real helm.

The akara ring has some decent usability to it, but it's unfortunately ruined by being a late game only item.

-----–--------

I think the game has the foundation to be solid, but I never see it being implemented in a reasonable way because every correspondence with brevan has been met with fierce rebuttal, or shots at my playstyle, as opposed to being constructive and interested in feedback.


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