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 Post subject: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:18 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
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Title.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:51 pm 
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ShockWeb has no Next-Hit Delay, so strikes 25 times a second. That would mean 25 chances for counters, so I removed the effect that spawns counters. The effect that spawns counters also causes boss's heal timer to start. The result is that ShockWeb won't spawn counters, just like FireWall, Inferno, etc, but also won't prevent bosses from healing when their timer runs out. You need to 1-pt something to keep the boss's heal timer going, such as FireBlast, BladeFury, or a ShadowSummon.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:08 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
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I see, thanks for the answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:58 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
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You surely can't tell me Wake of Inferno also doesn't prevent healing, Brevan. I want to believe I'm mistaken right now, but sadly I know I'm not. Wake of Inferno also doesn't do it, so you made two skills synergize with each other and neither of them actually prevent boss healing. Is this patch supposed to be a stress test to see how much shit the remaining players can take before we sign the fuck out or what? The majority already left back when some modder guy decided to create 2 cm long maps for each boss and randomly switch up boss locations. Are we now trying to get rid of the rest?

Another thing: if you tell me to one point another skill, I might destroy a keyboard. Please kindly fuck off with that logic.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:34 pm 
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There are a lot of builds, so many niches are explored. The SWeb+ISentry+SMaster build is very good at damaging bosses without generating counters (it's a very effective boss killing build), just like other HU versions often synergized FWall+Blaze+Inferno (no counters from that build either).

If you don't want to use another skill (SMaster is part of the build, but maybe your level is still low?) to keep a boss from healing, then consider using a ranged weapon like throwing daggers, or a Merc. Most builds in v1.7 use about 60 skill points (about 1/2 of the total end-game points available), but I can't force players to use the options available to overcome challenges.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:19 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
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Maybe I worded it poorly because I was fed up yesterday when I posted, which is probably visible.

Yes, my level is too low to get SM right now, haven't played since I noticed none of the two aforementined skills prevent healing.

Yeah, so my problem with your forced logic here is the fact that you made it so 2 skills synergize with each other which are both incapable of killing a boss.

Inb4: but this is not a solo mod.
> Yes, it isn't. I had a friend I used to play with. The moment I showed him some of the changes, he made a sly comment about the modders who created this version and never even considered joining, so I'm forced to solo ONCE AGAIN.
> Why do I play in private games? I don't. I only play in public games. The 10 players on the realm don't care about that shit, nobody ever joins. As I mentioned before, the majority already left never to return due to an earlier version of Retardation Unleashed.

Inb4: but throwing weapons and 1-pointers and summons and and and...
> Do you seriously not see the problem? As far as I see, you would make a great politician (you actually remind me of another person, are you by any chance a married middle aged philosopher from the US I know?). Going by your logic, let's remove prevent monster heal from every ranged attack and only add it to melee skills. What could go wrong? You have to understand that enforcing a certain build which is completely incapable of dealing damage to bosses on its own is a very poor design choice.

By the way, I'm surprised people are not shitting on me yet. Perhaps because everybody's gone?

Judging by your words, SM is supposed to prevent the healing, so I just have to suck it up and reach the required level so I can properly solo through the entire game in public games.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:42 am 
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I mean... summon necros have been putting 1 point into teeth so they can help reset boss timers for a long time... this is not a new thing. WoF and WoI have never reset timers iirc, it has always required a different skill or another player to do so. Yet somehow this is Brevan's fault.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:28 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:55 pm 
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It's a cute pic, and certainly an imaginative post. Reminds me of the Memoires of a Healer post several years ago.

I'll admit that I'm a bit confused about whether you mean that the main point of the thread was for trolling or if it was a genuine concern about v1.7 or maybe HU in general. I've read lots of posts that look like people are trolling, but I'll answer if I can think of information to include that might benefit a reader.

If you dislike the way HU bosses have a heal-timer, then I suppose that's a valid feature to dislike. The timer is set up so that if a boss has not been hit within 30 seconds, they heal completely. In some player teams, when a boss is immune to the main element of one of the players, that player's sole role might be bringing potions from town to the fight or keeping the boss's heal timer reset (In my experience, the timer is reset even if the boss is immune to damage of the attack, but the attack must successfully hit them (rather than being blocked or dodged)). That feature has always been in HU, so I think many players are used to skills like Poison, Flames, and MindBlast (and probably several others) that have never reset the boss heal-timer. There are versions of HU where those skills were in very high demand because by not resetting the heal timer they also do not generate counter-attacks.

I did make a change to that heal-timer in v1.7 so that rather than healing completely and instantly, it takes about 5 seconds for the boss to heal. If you're quick, you might realize their timer hasn't been restarted lately and tap them while they've only recovered 20% of their HP.

I'm sorry if it feels like people are making suggestions for improvement which are being ignored, but v1.7 development is finished. We were asking for development suggestions from August to December.

If you have more questions, feel free to ask. If they're related to how skills or item-mods work, I'd recommend asking in the Strategy&Tactics forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:18 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
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Should I record it next and link a vocaroo or?

Brevan, please. Please. PLEASE.

Okay, I am still patient. I'm going to let you know again because it seems like you... still don't get it.

Listen, you sound like a person who's smarter than myself. I'm going to keep it short this time.

First of all, I'm aware of the boss timers and other shit, please, for the love of our lord, do not bring up irrelevant things OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. I believe I mentioned this before?

Now, the important part comes here:

What I said was that putting two skills together when none of them have prevent monster healing is a bad idea.

Now, stop reading right here for 60 seconds and think about that one sentence you just read there.

... 60 seconds later.

You get it now, right? Nobody talked about healing timers or whatever being shit or using Teeth on summon necro or working around with throwing weapons or hitting in melee or one-pointing another skill other than you and slappyNuts. That's it. Those things are of no concern right now.

I'm simply letting you know that "What I said was that putting two skills together when none of them have prevent monster healing is a bad idea." which can be interpreted as "What I said was that putting two skills together when none of them have prevent monster healing is a bad idea." and I believe I also mentioned that you should not put two skills together when neither of them cancel boss healing.

I'm letting you know for the sake of YOU and future modders. I'm letting you know what I think here, so if people work on custom enforced build/synergy systems, you keep this thing in mind because not everybody has the luxury of playing in 8 player parties where this hardly matters.

Edit: I'm even gonna edit this just to say that before "yeah, that's like your opinion, man" happens, you are right. That's what feedback is. My opinion. In my opinion "What I said was that putting two skills together when none of them have prevent monster healing is a bad idea."


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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:33 am 
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the_apologizer wrote:
"What I said was that putting two skills together when none of them have prevent monster healing is a bad idea."


You have access to more than 2 skills

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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:45 am 
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These two skills have not reset the boss timer since I played going on a decade at this point.
Like Brevan said, it is fine to dislike a certain feature. However, this has zero to do with this patch. The reason for the boss timer is to make you take it in one go.
Having skills that do not cause counters, is a good thing. Only using skills that don't cause counters results in exactly what you are experiencing.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:53 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
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"Basically I am very smart." no. 2 has arrived.

Yeah, you guys need to learn how to read.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:26 am 
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Quote:
Yeah, so my problem with your forced logic here is the fact that you made it so 2 skills synergize with each other which are both incapable of killing a boss.


I read it...and the stuff before/after. Most have not seen this as an issue. You are not a fan of the mechanic. Shrug.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is shock web randomly healing bosses?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
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Let's be honest. Neither of these skills do damage or clear well, so they might as well not exist.

Why two boss killers were put together is beyond me.


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