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 Post subject: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:56 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:45 pm
Posts: 56
1. Sorry for my terrible English
2. Start :
- I come from VN, iam an admin from a D2 group (facebook)
- We hosted HU for many times, from 1.3 1.4 1.5 and 1.6, finally is 1.7
- I dont know which next HU version will become ? base on 1.7 or back to 1.6 ? i read an information that HU 1.7 will be release on Juanary 2017 ? who is the modder ? Purage or Ensley03 ?
- In past, with 1.6c at the epic time we had ~ 30 player online (not clone), 2-3 full room, this mod version is very good, but it has some unbalanced :
+ PvM is not fair : Amazon still is the best range char for pvm (multishot dmg is too high), Zealer is better choice to Fury, Poison nec dmg is shit,...
+ Some skill build are suck (2 handle weapon melee char, summon cant vs high Boss)
+ Bosses are too strong (Soulmacer, Act bosses - dmg too high)
+ Some OP items
+ PvP is totally fun
- When we up to 1.7 beta... now no one play it, because :
+ Players are hopeless for D2, some guys dont play more...
+ It is very close to orginal version, not similar to 1.6 - shock !
+ New skilles synergy is not good (dual build)
+ There was no new skill which is be waited most
- My group is ruined, so sad, now we dont have any mod to play. I have some ideas for new version but it will be ok ?
Tks for read
p/s contact me https://www.facebook.com/theandromeda.antichina


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:28 am 
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If your community does not like 1.7, then stick with 1.6, and retune it to your liking...making very sure that your version is noted as an alternative to HU itself.

It is simply impossible to please all the bees in the nest. Every version has had its naysayers. 1.7 won't be any different in this regard.

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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:04 am 
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Location: Vancouver, BC
The next version will be v1.7. It should be released in January. PureRage and I are the modders for v1.7. PureRage has not been online since August. You can ask me questions.

I am hoping that in January 2018, the next version will be v1.8. It should be based on v1.6. In January 2019, the next version will be v1.9, it should be based on v1.7. I think the change between versions is fun.

I am sorry that you did not enjoy v1.7 beta. It is okay if your community wants to wait for v1.8. Maybe you can create v1.8 because you have ideas for changing HUv1.6. When you are done, please share your v1.8 with us.

facebook link did not work, "Not Available".


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:45 pm
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Hi Brevan sorry for my late, my english too :(
- I know Kevin is not online, i contacted him on fb, but no reply :(
- You can connect me on facebook, sorry i have just edited my privacty setting.
- My group has 1973 members at now, but there is no realm, no mod, no "players"; i and my guys found no mod to play for now. When play 1.6, i collect many things that need to fix or improve but 1.7beta is not 1.6 inheritance... My group can wait for 1.8 if we still dont find out the good mod. I saw your post about 1.7 but i afraid that my members will dont like it :(. You can make a vote ? for HU develope way, i dont know why you and Kevin make 1.7 is so strange to 1.6. My community want 1.7 will fix some unbalanced thing, make new skills for each class, new item and new bosses/map/quest...I know a guy, he made a mod that has ~ above 30 players at the same time, this is very good for D2, but i dont like his mod, because his mod is close to orginal version.
- But i think we cant stop your modding :), so let do your job, good job.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:09 pm 
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v1.7 is essentially a new base that has been made easier to adjust and keep balanced while adding more opertunities to try obscure off the wall builds, that are actually functional. The original difficulty for 1.7 was much higher, but the testing and devlopment team decided it would be best if we stay on the side of caution and reduce difficulty so people can get used to the changes first as the learning curve was very steep and we didn't want to turn new players off. The difficulty ramps up in NM and hell, and there is a lot of new optional stuff to keep you busy

The next update to 1.7 (1.9) will likely start increasing the difficulty once people get used to everything. The main benefit being that edits to 1.7 are easy to implement and balance, so more time can be spent on content and items.

For your suggestions, maybe start a suggestions thread for 1.8 (based on 1.6c). Not sure who is modding that patch, but they have a full year to brainstorm, edit and test, so plenty of time to get everything up and running. 1.9 wise, I won't be directly involved as this will be the last patch I work on, but I'll be around to answer any questions and provide info, but editing wise I'm pretty burned out with a lack of long periods of free time.

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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:03 pm
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Not sure who is modding that patch, but they have a full year to brainstorm, edit and test, so plenty of time to get everything up and running. 1.9 wise.


I'd like to work on 1.8. I think last couple patches made too many drastic changes for the sake of making changes. Can you imagine if with every new patch Blizzard just reinvented Diablo 2 over and over again? People had made their own builds and understood characters a certain way by mastering them over years, and now everything they know is irrelevant.

New "patches" in the past were just that, a patch. People realized certain skills or items were a bit too powerful so they needed to be adjusted. Maybe a few new items added or a new boss.

1.3 was my favorite I'd say, which is what I'd like to base mine on. There were certain skills that needed to be toned down, not nerfed to oblivion, just tweaked a bit. And there were other skills that needed to be fixed up to make them more relevant.

I've got FTP access to arimyth.com from Duff and I will be working on a new version of our website. I've also started a Facebook page and had attracted a lot of interest with minimal effort thus far.

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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:44 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:18 am
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Ta cũng việt nam nè, khó nhận nhau quá
Group d2 nào vậy
Việtnamese is here


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:55 pm 
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i am currently trying some single playing of 1.7 it seems really awsum so far. cant wait till the reset :)

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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:27 am
Posts: 64
did any1 try melee sin? how good is she now?


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:20 pm 
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Initial tester feedback of melee sins prompted the extra block rate automod on claws, but otherwise they appear to be alright. They're balanced as a middle-ground class, MA sins slightly tankier than average, Trappers have average damage (though you could build up some traps for a burst of damage). Either route assumes you'll be playing with a Shadow summon, which did pretty decent damage in my tests. Cloak of Shadows no longer darkens the screen, and gets a shorter duration for Trappers maxing SMaster, but a longer duration for MA sins maxing SWarrior, I know that doesn't work for everyone, but it's been working fine for v1.7 so far.

  • IceClaws is relatively defensive (frozen stuff doesn't fight back), so does lower damage.
  • FireClaws (AoE emphasis) can stack it's flames to reach the same DPS as PhoenixStrike, but it gets there faster.
  • LtngClaws is relatively good for single-target and bosses, since it's last charge realeases about 8 Charged Bolts and could have multiple hitting a large target.
  • CobraStrike's Poison Nova is average damage.
  • PhoenixStrike's charge1 (freezing) is meant to be defensive, charge2 (Lightning) is decent for single targets (no hit-delay so the primary target takes up to 6 times the listed damage for the very short duration the lightning is on him), while charge3 was just rebalanced to be less than Sorc's meteor (as expected when cast from a more durable class).

MA Sin skills all synergize with WeaponBlock, which I've recently read isn't as popular as when I was playing v1.3 back in 2011. If you wanted to make an MA Sin with a shield, you still could. If you wanted to spend the WBlock points somewhere else (maybe Fade for extra durability or MindBlast for magic damage) I'm pretty sure your character would still be playable.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:45 am 
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nguyentai: In order to determine what your community misses most, feedback is important. For me it will take me some time to get used to tiers of potions again. This was convenient, and pretty easily standardized. 1.5's equations are the best in this regard.

You have noted in the past about things that were thought to over/under perform. These are good to see. (though with poison...it has been nerfed repeatedly...at some point DoT damage will either work (in which case it will almost always be seen as too strong) or it wont (and it will be seen as worthless).

I will wait and see what 1.8 'should' look like, but at present, the main things are the simplifying ones like potions...and if we could just make potions stack. I am not sure I want to go back and forth between quite different versions. I would rather 1.5s be used if we do. It is slighltly less volatile in some ways than 1.6.

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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:09 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:09 am
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Is it only for me or the screen goes a little more to the right side that it should?


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:03 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
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Hey. I came back once again to see what the new version brings, haven't played much yet of course. Glad there's already a feedback thread going.

I don't want to kick the door in and say everything is bad, I just have a few questions.

First of all, to the OP: why do you think this is close to the original? It's nowhere near it.

And then some smaller things here to people who are more informed than myself (I haven't tested, I never really do, and I'm not ashamed by it).

Most important question: what's the logic behind the new synergies? I don't wanna sound like I'm trying to talk shit here, I just feel like somebody changed them all for the sake of changing them with no real reason. Let's just bring an example, so it's easier to know what I'm getting at; a good one, why are Hurricane and Armageddon synergies to Grizzly and not other summoning or MAYBE shape skills? Or what's the logic behind Shock Wave-Poison Creeper?

Another thing: what's that hidden skill thing I saw mentioned somewhere?

Additionally, what's up with every second monster and their mothers randomly cursing you or having some resistance aura?

And this is probably no biggie, but still wanna ask: what's up with ES? 2 Armors being synergies, having to put 40 points on them to get to 66% absorb? Can't help but say that's the worst shit I've ever seen.

Please don't take this too hard, really not trying to talk shit, just questions.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:53 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:09 am
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I killed the Coldcrow which was inside the cave in the Cold Plains and it dropped an item called An Evil Force which when in inventory gives u a skill that when used spawns arrows or bolts.
The thing is i cannot drop or move/trade that item, when i click on it my mouse dissappears so i have to close inventory and when i do that it drops on the ground and i just pick it up again :)

EDIT:
I killed that ColdCrow and my second quest (sisters' burial grounds) is finished. Is it normal?


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:41 pm 
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@DoubtFuLMind
Coldcrow was given a charm that could be used to spawn Arrows and Bolts. At some point the files PureRage and I were editing lost some information, so it looks like the name of the charm was lost ("Ammo Bag" I think). It is intended to save you the time of picking up Bolts and Arrows if you didn't want to. I have no information about why it would not be discardable. During Testing it was found to be just a simple Charm with a spell, kind of like the FinalKey for LoShadows. Regarding the QuestCompletion, my guess is that ColdCrow was implemented as a clone of BRaven, in which case you just discovered that D2 is hardcoded to treat her death as all kinds of special. Maybe it's like when a SuperUnique could spawn in multiple locations, but when he is killed at one of them he can't spawn at another (e.g. The Glabrezu demon pack in GlacialDome also spawns on floor4 of TheFrozenCitadel)


the_apologizer wrote:
...Most important question: what's the logic behind the new synergies?...
Rather than groups based on one element, the groups are based on style of play (offense, tank, in-between). Some groups are all in the same style, others were chosen to balance the style (a pure Tank build might be durable, but frustratingly slow). HUv1.8 will surely bring back the old style of synergies, since that version should have nothing to do with v1.7 (v1.9 should be based on v1.7). I was trying to enable more build varieties (goal was about 9 builds per class).

Hurricane and Armageddon synergies to Grizzly and not other summoning or MAYBE shape skills?
Hurricane&Armageddon are maxed by every Elementalist build, so the synergy with Griz gives them a HighDmg-LowHP summon, if they feel like using it. They're welcome to max both skills and Griz, in which case the summon's tanking ability isn't the best (don't cower behind it, get a merc (A5Bear, A5Human, or A2Prayer seem like good Tanking choices for this build)), but noticeably better than it was (about double HP). FireClaws and FrostBite synergize with Hurricane/Armageddon because I felt those builds would get frustrated recasting their AoE effects more than once every two minutes (they're expected to be front-line fighters; albeit not the most durable).

Or what's the logic behind Shock Wave-Poison Creeper?
SWave stuns targets while the Creeper poisons them. It's a very effective build against Trash, and I didn't struggle against bosses with it (using two AoE skills isn't the fastest boss-killer in the world though). Their damages stack, so it made more sense for my more-builds goal than PCreeper with another poison skill (poison damages never stack, the highest DPS effect takes over).

Another thing: what's that hidden skill thing I saw mentioned somewhere? There are two things you might have seen:
  1. Invisible Passives on characters - To avoid a long time D2 bug (State overload), and to give max-Strength builds a chance to block and have ARating, every character has a couple Passives that give stats from several sources. However, D2 has another bug where Passive skills are only updated when their level changes (so raising your Strength won't give you ARating because it didn't change the level of the Passive). This means that when you start a fresh character and maybe dump a bunch of points into Strength, you won't get the ARating until you've equipped or removed a +AllSkills item (or SkillShrine or BattleCommand), which are very common in v1.7. For the first few levels of your character, you might really notice the lack of ARating from raising your Strength instead of your Dex, but after about level 30 you'd struggle to not have +AllSkill gear, and you won't notice the lack of ARating from 5 Strength anyways.
  2. Invisible Passives on weapons - To avoid state overload, the Barb's WeaponMasteries were changed so that rather than give him a new state with stats only when he uses a certain weapon type, we instead gave that state to the weapons themselves. While wearing a weapon, the Barb gets the stats from his WeaponMasteries. This way a Barb could only get 2 WeaponStates rather than 6 from his Passives tab (although I also reduced WeaponMasteries from 6 to 3).


Additionally, what's up with every second monster and their mothers randomly cursing you or having some resistance aura?
I wanted more variety in Trash fights, so most monsters have some kind of randomly selected buff. View the monprops webpage for details. The ResistanceAura graphic is selected for element only, on enemies (i.e. Players) the aura causes elemental damage and weakens that element (e.g. -20%FireDmg), on the owner that aura provides some %Absorb to that element (i.e. consider switching to your not-fire skill when attacking the FireMage; even a rock in a sock might be better).

And this is probably no biggie, but still wanna ask: what's up with ES? 2 Armors being synergies, having to put 40 points on them to get to 66% absorb? Can't help but say that's the worst shit I've ever seen.
The % stays low initially to help players get an efficient EShield (lower MPDmg while not sending more Dmg to MP). Since that % is in the per-level section of the description it's a safe bet that levels in ES will raise the % eventually (starts at level 8, at level 16 (i.e. you've actually placed points in this rather than rely on +Skills) it raises the % by 2).

The synergies will buff the %, MPDmg, and Duration, and are almost as beneficial as a point in EShield. This was done to enable a Chantress to be a front-line fighter if she wants (she'd have to if she wants to use those armors well (they often out perform chanted melee damage (unless she's Shapeshifted and using Fury or something))). For the Chantress, EShield is free (there's no strong reason for her to raise it at all, after 24 points in the synergies, she's reached the caps that were probably important to her). Similarly, for the FireStorm Druid CycloneArmor is stronger than normal, and for a PDagger Necro BArmor is stronger than normal. Without those synergies those builds would need more than 60 point to complete, and I was trying to avoid that.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:15 pm 
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I like the way synergies give you more freedom now since they dont have over powered set line, at least it seems at first.

however

No idea what you just said about energy shield.

I know so far that, the both sorc shields rise the % by 1.

My questions in regard of energy shield absorb%

does 1 flat point in both shields always rise the % by 1? up to total of 40?

resulting in 66 ?

You just mentioned that (FLAT? or Not Only?) points in ES itselfe eventualy will rise the%
Is it only at 8? and 16?, what exaclty did you mean by that.

or is it after 8 by 2? lol


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:55 pm 
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RE: Coldcrow bag. I just checked and it's only an issue on high res (the no graphic). I spotted a few other minor clientside issues while playing sp at work too. Will link a clientside update before I head off.

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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:08 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
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Zen1337 wrote:
I like the way synergies give you more freedom now since they dont have over powered set line, at least it seems at first.

however

No idea what you just said about energy shield.

I know so far that, the both sorc shields rise the % by 1.

My questions in regard of energy shield absorb%

does 1 flat point in both shields always rise the % by 1? up to total of 40?

resulting in 66 ?

You just mentioned that (FLAT? or Not Only?) points in ES itselfe eventualy will rise the%
Is it only at 8? and 16?, what exaclty did you mean by that.

or is it after 8 by 2? lol


Absorb caps at 66% regardless of how many points you have on Chilling/Shiver/ES.

Leveling the armors each give 1% abs and 3s duration per hard point. Leveling ES past level 8 (first time on 9) gives 2% abs.

I don't see this as a good change to the skill myself, but we'll just have to deal with it for now.

---

I have a few more questions here. I wanted to go through all the classes and check on the skill trees, but I stopped after checking the Paladin and the Assassin afterwards. First of all, I like how SW shows up as a synergy for MA and SM shows up for Traps. These 2 summons were always kinda meh, now at least there's a clear guideline on which one to take if you so wish.

Anyway, I stopped because whoever made the changes to Paladin skills is an absolute madman, bigger one than Bob Ross.

First of all, I cried when I saw Zeal synergies. Please tell me why.

Conversion is still in the game for some reason.

Real questions: what's the reason for Concentration/Fanaticism bonus sharing? Show me one build where you consider pouring points into both of these auras.

What in the lord's name happened to Vigor?

And lastly, wasn't HS good enough before? I would say it's probably one of the best skills in the game if not the best without any changes to anything. And now you get the FRW from Vigor, the absorbs from res auras and the poison reduction from Cleansing as well?

I also have a request to rename Teleport to Blink for obvious reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:19 pm 
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the_apologizer wrote:
I'll try to answer your questions with the assumption that you were being serious about them, but it was hard to tell what the question was in some cases, so I'm sorry if I didn't get to the heart of the matter.

First of all, I cried when I saw Zeal synergies. Please tell me why.
The synergies on Zeal are intended to promote HolyAura paladins that fight in melee rather than with a bow. The idea was to promote a balance between less damage at range or higher damage in melee. Also, if a Paladin maxed two HolyAuras, then he'd still have some benefit from the points spent in the aura he's not using. There is no physical effects on Zeal because the %ED auras all already add the maximum amount allowed by the design. If a PhysZealot isn't doing enough damage, then they should change their weapon (the %ED will amplify the increase); a HolyAura Paladin can't do that as easily.

Conversion is still in the game for some reason.
Yes, it's a very effective Tanking skill against trash. Most builds have some AI effect among their skills, Convert is the Paladin's option. Other examples are Howl, GrimWard, MindBlast, CloakOfShadows, Raven (i.e. DimVision - Raven's will reduce monster resistances too), Freezing/Stunning/Knockback Skills (i.e. AI is removed), Attract, Confuse, and Terror

Real questions: what's the reason for Concentration/Fanaticism bonus sharing? Show me one build where you consider pouring points into both of these auras.
...What in the lord's name happened to Vigor?
Synergies don't exist to force players to invest points in them, they exist to facilitate builds. Different players using the same auras do not stack their effects, they share the highest level aura. If your FanataZealot had to play with another FanataZealot, then one of you could switch to Concentration to preserve some of Fanaticism's effects. Vigor was a good candidate to receive buffs from multiple skills because players generally don't max Vigor. A Druid's spirits have their synergies with each other with the same intention, so two MaxOak Druids could play together while one switches to another spirit.

And lastly, wasn't HS good enough before? I would say it's probably one of the best skills in the game if not the best without any changes to anything. And now you get the FRW from Vigor, the absorbs from res auras and the poison reduction from Cleansing as well?
If you'd like to spend the points in all those skills to end up with a very strong HolyShield skill, then I consider that balanced. You should get what you pay for. The synergies on HShield are not soft synergies, the skill description's upper area is updated to reflect the changes from synergies, although I ran out of room for the FRWalk effect (this was not considered important).

I also have a request to rename Teleport to Blink for obvious reasons.
Renaming skills is often possible (sometimes hardcoded issues prevent this though), consider adding your suggestion to a v1.9 or v1.8 suggestion thread.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:31 pm 

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Synergies exist to strengthen the main skill through putting points elswhere, not as a retard road map for forced skill combinations. It also(in the past when things made sense) commonly grouped trash abilities with single target abilities.

Quote:
Absorb caps at 66% regardless of how many points you have on Chilling/Shiver/ES.

Don't worry dude, you'll never have enough mana to make use of even a 26% ES. I'm 330/540 with majority points in energy, and my spammable spell(icebolt) costs 70+ mana. I oom myself before orb comes off cooldown if I try to weave.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:22 am 

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Well, right now synergies feel like a retard road map though.

And yeah, I tried going for a full energy build myself, I saw what it's like.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:01 am 

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I talked to brevan in game, he wanted to make a new char with me, unfortunately I had little time to do so.

I got a few answers to questions, also asked what runewords would be worth wearing. Answer is no runewords are worth wearing.

Akaras ring early gives physical dr and I assume magic resist at lower hp, and gives a shield slot. But he admitted it's relatively weak since it's strength lies in tempered jewels, whatever those are, some late game mechanic.

Ww is mega shitty on mobs hitting way more frequently than he intended, probably twice as much because mobs are considered dual wielding, and in lod dual wielding is essentially double the hitchecks. Meaning at max fpa, which I assume they're at, it's hitchecking every 2 frames. Explains why a normal trash mob wwi g through me virtually kills me. He wouldn't admit they desync, I offered to prove it by streaming, no response. They also have the delightful bug(imo) of not dying until ww is over. My guess the desync after thinking about it is they target me and I respond with teleport when they get close. So they move where I was, stop visually moving, but continue to my location until they can hit me then finally die. This is similar to how ww in pve works if you namelock a moving mob.

Crafting sets or uniques up to nm quality give them more +skills, so far I meet the level reqs but don't have the ss gems required.

Still not sure on absurd mana. He said my party should 'slow down' and my mana problems were an advent of my playstyle. I guess we're supposed to stagnant our casts and sit there afk while our mana regens. He offered to make a med paladin with me, but I see little how it would help. He also said the mana issues were a design flaw because how they scale, so he chose to make it bad early instead of later. Not sure how it's ever going to get better since mana scales so poorly. No gear I have found gives even a decent amount of mana.mhe suggested lums for that beastly 30 mana a slot, so with 3 of them I get 1x more cast.

Lastly I truly don't understand the vast amount of oskills on items. They're reminiscent of base d2 lods tranqs set in that you get a fire sorcs kit but it's awful and not viable. The exception is skills like fade(massively nerfed) or other buffs.

I think I am going to remake from orb to bliz, twofold reasoning in I think bliz is just straight up going to be stronger, but my friend I play with is also complaining I keep leveling without him.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:23 pm 
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If you had trouble interpreting some of my comments, I don't mind expanding on them line by line if you share the chatlog, I didn't consider making a copy of it. It looks like some things you shared above got confused.

For example, "no runewords are worth wearing" sounds like something that needs context. You asked about weapon runewords, but weren't interested in "Despair" or "Malice" (low offensive torso runeword). You mentioned wearing the complete Arcanna set, so I recommended upgrading the staff for +2 skills (but check the white-items webpages to see what level and stat requirements the upgraded item has). I didn't mention it, but upgrading the hat would earn +1 Skills and 5 PDR/MDR (i.e. Non-Pois DR (anyone comfortable saying NPDR yet?)), and upgrading the Armor would get 5 PDR/MDR. If you're using a full set, then I wouldn't expect any runeword to be so strong that it's worth breaking up the set.

WW mobs, I remember admitting that they're tough, but also mentioned that they do reduced damage (or maybe reduced ARating, I'd have to double check) to compensate. I've seen many new players aren't used to handling them, but I'm pretty sure once they do they'll be fine. If a mob (more than 3) WW at you at the same time, then I'd recommend walking (to preserve your AC and Block) to the side rather than away because monster's generally target the space 3 yards behind you when they WW. I have no idea how many times their WW is hitting, they have no extra IAS that I can see, and don't appear to be dual-wielding. I remember asking you to explain what you meant by desync, but at the time I decided that you might be referring to how even when their HP appears to be zero their WW continues and they die afterwards (just like Barbs do). If you'd like to stream it, then I'd recommend playing at a resolution of either 800x600 or 640x480, to help expand the details and reduce the stream bandwidth (my connection sucks).

Upgrading gives +Skills in many cases (I never bothered to make recipes for Magic or below-Superior-quality stuff), and almost all cases of Exceptional to Elite (I think only most non-class weapons miss out). Gemshrines are good to upgrade PGems to StarStone. I'd recommend just doing quick tours of the WP in A1 or A2 Sewers or ArcaneObservatory (if you've got a Telekinesis ring). GemShrines are as common as any other shrine, so if you started with a Flawless (or maybe Normal if you've got a fresh char), then after 4-5 shrines you're able to upgrade a Basic to Exceptional (+2 skills on 2-Handed weapons like ArcannaStaff). Exceptional items start around char level 40, so no need to rush.

I can see where the mana discussion might have gotten confusing. I mentioned that in the original 2012 design, I wanted mana to scale differently (I never mentioned, but I was hoping it would be a very mild exponential, like +2% per synergy and +X per level), but D2 is coded to accept only "Base=Y and perLvl=X". This limits the design. Since most RPG/Adventure games like D2 have an exponential growth curve (they need to or else gameplay gets stale), I was forced to choose how to fit the mana cost line against the growth curve: they either match early game or late game. I chose to match the late-game (Char level >60ish) because the early game (Char level <30ish) is over fast (a day?). The mismatch isn't too noticeable to me, but I've gotten used to this version of HU (since 2012ish).

I've noticed a few groups in SC that are racing through Norm very fast (Norm is relatively easy, and their groups are clearly not struggling to a point that's frankly a bit suspicious (to each their own though)). They're ending up in A3 (mobs start at level 40) by level 30, and ending up in A5 (mobs start at level 70) by level 60. In Diablo2, when the player's level is more than 10 away from the monster's level, the player won't earn much exp for the kills. Folks may as well slow down and complete optional quests. The boss webapge has levels for every boss-flagged monster, so is a decent reference to find where you'd level best.

I don't recall discussing oSkills, but they're in v1.7 for a couple reasons. One is balance, one is novelty (I haven't had a chance to give it a go, but Golem Paladin (assumed to be using Prayer, but Conviction might be alright too) should be pretty viable).

Let me know if in the future you're interested in playing together.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:33 pm 

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I don't see mana exponentially increasing which means the problems will always exist. Basically play a class with icd or a melee class, nothing else is viable. Not sure why you think mana has implications on gameplay. It never has, never will. Your version just makes certain skills unusable.

As for runewords, none of them are good. They give a splash of useless stats that rares or uniques will be better because you can focus the sockets into what you want.

Looked through most of the runewords and I laughed and started selling all my runes.

As for ww, it was a bad choice to put it on mobs. If you play with sound and it goes through you, you can hear it proccing 10+ times a second. But the damage isn't the problem, it's built in no death until ending is a huge bug for trash mobs and the way it desyncs mobs is even worse. You can react and avoid to damage, not bugs in ww code or desync. As for my description of desync, play any amount of normal d2 pvp with hammerdins and you'll get an idea. You could also think of it as warping back when you clip on something. Your character isn't where your client is reporting it. Mobs do this frequently, but most of the time it matters little. Matters a whole shitload when mobs who ww through you can lock you in fhr fbr and kill you.

Also a large amount of one shot mechanics, you saw me die to leviathon multiple times. Get hit, die from full hp and mana through es. Certain mob damage seems way higher than others too. The bugs, for example, seem to be just soing absurd damage. The skeletons that a2 summoners summon do absurd damage too in comparison to other things. Snakes are far more dangerous this patch.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:15 pm 
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What good is a feedback thread if you guys won't except the feedback your getting? And Kevin in the other thread I wasn't starting fights I was speaking facts . It gets old trying to tell you guys were there are real issues and you won't listen to anyone.. But enough said I will just sit back and watch the show it should be a comical one in a couple weeks.. Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:32 pm 
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heres my feedback so far: 1h weapons up to level 30 (as far as i am) are too weak, making 1h builds really slow compared to any build(caster killing x5 faster), a1 can be a pain for 1h melee so i think starter 1h sets and uniques could use a little tone up... the game is already easy at a1 for any build... why make it super slow for 1h melee? even casters and bowas can tank a1 np.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:01 am 

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So i have learned Iron Skin for Barb (20 lvl now) but the reduction doesnt show in the stats board (c), is this normal? and yes i have restarted the game.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:34 am 
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@DoubtFuLMind
IronSkin is one of the skills that requires a change in your +AllSkills to go into effect. I'm surprised rejoining the game didn't activate it, but for now just cast BattleCommand or equip an item with +Allskills. The IronSkin skill description shows the stats it will provide.

@Wolfs
There's several contrary opinions for v1.7, some feel Melee are the only way to go, other feel Casters are the only way. I think some of these feelings are just due to people still exploring their options. For now, consider gems in the weapon and jewels off-weapon for more damage, consider playing with a high-damage merc.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:20 pm 

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I don't see how melees function when they can't get real lifesteal amounts. Is the nightmare/hell reduction still in place? Makes it even worse if it is.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:10 pm 
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The divisors for divisible things (leach, AI-curse duration, Chill/Freeze) are 2 for NM and 3 for Hell. Undead are unleachable, Demons are 50% leachable, everything else is 100% leachable. I'd recommend the folks who work on v1.9 to reduce some of those numbers and maybe add more categories (there are around 10 monster types, but I set the Leach numbers back when there were only 3).

If players are genuinely struggling despite having 3-5%Leach (10-15% in Hell), then they need to consider some defensive or +PhysDmg mods on their gear.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:40 pm 

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I'll give a melee a try at some point when I have mentally prepared myself to do less damage than a level 1 sorc with a level 2 charged bolt for the first 30 levels, but eyeballing it I don't see the minimal amount of leech working out.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:10 pm 
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LOL

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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:28 pm 
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And I guess I was wrong what I said testing 1.7 ..This is getting funny as hell.. I find it sad that you 2 will kill this mod because of your stupid pride over making Hu a great mod again.. if you think having 18 people after a reset is a good mod your fool of yourself. If I do work on the next patch my goal is to make line's in the Chanel not a fucking ghost town..

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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:53 pm 

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+ to maxinum/minimum damage (based on char lvl) from Death set and Albrecht's set dont work.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:39 pm 

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Asteroth wrote:
if you think having 18 people after a reset is a good mod your fool of yourself. If I do work on the next patch my goal is to make line's in the Chanel not a fucking ghost town..


17 people

I enter a1 NM and i think i dont want to play anymore because i dont have that much time to play , progres is very slow and no one plays.
Act boses are to week and moobs are op ,sometimes it is harder to get to the act boses then kill them


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:04 pm 
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@DoubtFuLMind
That you very much for pointing this out. I was able to reproduce the error with Death'sSet, but not Albrecht'sArmor.

Tests:
Gave Death'sSet +3-4Dmg/Lvl (lvl 21 test char, so about +60-80Dmg), and clearly there was no bonus damage. This wouldn't be the first time a bonus given to the set-complete section of mods wasn't behaving, so I should have checked more before release, sorry about that. The 100%DeadlyStrike, +200%DmgVsHumans, DualLeach, and 25%Slow on the set should still make it pretty good for BladeSins, but I was hoping the +Dmg off-weapon would benefit dual-wielding barbs of some kind.

Tried Albrecht'sSet complete, it worked as intended. Since the +Dmg is just on the armor, I removed a weapon while retaining the bonus, and found that throwing daggers were clearly doing extra damage. That said, I noticed that the +MinDmg/Lvl wasn't affecting thrown damage, but I have found and corrected the error (confirmed working).

Solutions:
  1. I confirmed no other Set-Complete mods exist with "/lvl" stats. I guess those just don't work for set-complete mods.
  2. I moved the +Dmg/Lvl from Death'sSet to Death'sGlove (3-piece bonus, i.e. the set must still be completed).
  3. Changed itemstatcost.item_mindamage_perlevel such that opstat2 and opstat3 match item_mindamage.

@Seraph23
Thank you for trying out HUv1.7. I can appreciate that there aren't a lot of folks in NM right now and that a team would make progress more enjoyable. If you find time to play in the future, consider trying a new build through Norm, or maybe continuing your NM char (assuming folks have caught up).


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:08 pm 

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NP.

----

Btw i wanted to ask why dont u guys create a more complete stats board/s which will include all existing statistics? or you dont because something like that requires Plugin?
Im not saying that this format for stats board is bad, its really good and well made but there are statistics that arent being mentioned, such as Crushing Blow, Mana steal, Life replenish etc.
Cant you create more than one "pages" of stats without plugy? :)


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:31 pm 

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also when will be next version with the fixes applied?:DD


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:12 pm 

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Brevan wrote:
... BladeSins, ...


Mhmhmhmhmhmhmhmhm.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:45 am 

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Ok.
I am pretty sure Magic Find doesnt work. Or you have set it so that every boss drops max amount of items. Why i am saying this?
Because i have killed many times bosses with almost 100% magic find and almost 0% magic find and the amount or quality of items doesnt change.
Right now i killed The Smith on x8 players with 60% magic find and it didnt drop any rare/uniques/sets, it only dropped magic items, while right after this kill i killed him with 6% magic find and he dropped Unique and Set item (the number of the drops always being the same).


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:11 pm 
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I'm not sure which version of HU started it (maybe v1.12?), but most bosses drop either all Set items, or all Unique items. HUv1.7 inherited this effect. If you're trying to collect Uniques or Sets, then consider either making a good boss-killer geared without %MF, or a good trash-killer that stacks %MF (note that your Merc inherits your %MF and %GF, and then adds their own).

In Diablo2, when an item drops it's base type is already determined (e.g. ShortSword). If that item would have dropped as a Set Item, then the game checks if there is a Set item of that type. If there's no item (HUv1.7 doesn't have a Set ShortSword), then the item spawns as Magical, but with its base durability doubled. If that item would have dropped as a Unique Item, then the game checks if there is a Unique item of that type or if that Unique has already dropped this game. If the unique can't spawn, then the item spawns as Rare, but with its base durability tripled. The extra durability will not stay with the item if you reroll it with the cube. It's possible to let Uniques drop multiple times (e.g. quest items like Horadric Ore), but the features of failed-Sets and failed-Uniques are hardcoded.

Regarding a larger StatsBoard, I don't know how to make extra pages, but I'll make a note for v1.9. The stats shown in the HighRes and NormRes char screen are different, but I have no idea why (it's not just a case of having more space to show more at HighRes). I added the ReplenishLife stat to NormRes, so there's no box around it, and I have no idea why it doesn't include skill-based ReplenishLife.

Maybe in the future folks could decide which stats are most important to them, and then the StatBoard could at least be standardized if not extended.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:19 pm 

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I have been having an argument with my friend about goldfind. If i stack goldfind and I use no mf, the boss in trav seems to drop gold more often. If i have mf, he seems to drop items more often.

Friend says mf is irrelevant to how many gold piles drop.

Is this just circumstantial that I see more gold with no mf on?


----------------------------------

On another note, I have had arcannas helm drop from rakanishu and thne drop again from gris. But your explanation makes it sound like each unique set dan only drop once per game.

I have seen jade talons in the past drop 4-5x in a tundra run.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:45 am 

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MF doesn't affect your gold pile to item ratio. When you kill a monster it's going to determine what it's dropping, whether it be an item, gem, rune, gold pile, etc. If it rolls to drop an item, MF will kick in and begin to skew the odds of your item being of a higher magical quality higher.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:44 am 

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Convert wrote:
MF doesn't affect your gold pile to item ratio. When you kill a monster it's going to determine what it's dropping, whether it be an item, gem, rune, gold pile, etc. If it rolls to drop an item, MF will kick in and begin to skew the odds of your item being of a higher magical quality higher.


Bro i dont think that is so... I have killed many bosses with like 100% MF and 0% MF and there is simply no difference on what quality of items it will drop. As i said in my post i killed many bosses with 90+% MF and didnt get any uniques/sets while i was getting uniques/sets with 0% MF.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:33 pm 

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Mf is mostly irrelevant on boss kills, highly desireable for trash clearing, because bosses are coded to drop uniques or sets most of the time. If they drop blues it's because said set or unique doesn't exist.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:29 pm 

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So guys.
I have a couple of items that give poison damage over 8 seconds. Do they stack? how exactly they will work.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:39 pm 

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They stack. Like if you have the mod on your weapon and the mod on a charm and the mod on your belt, they'll all add up.

In the past if they were different over x seconds they still stacked but they would compress. It won't stack with poison skills though. So if you popped venom it would stack onto venom, but it won't add into say plague javelin or poison nova.


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 Post subject: Re: HU1.7 FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:47 am 

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So, the answer is probably "I'm bad", but if some more experienced members could help me figure out why I am bad, that'd be great.

Been reading through the forums, and I see a bunch of different people saying groups are coasting through Normal, but I am struggling. Act 1 and 2 were fine, the struggles started in Act 3, and now at the end of Act 4 I've hit a wall in Chaos Sanctuary, namely with Diablo. Just playing casually with a friend of mine, he is playing a Bone Necro and I am rolling with a Fury Druid. The undead giant miniboss I had to just kite around while he murdered it for me, the other two bosses we pretty handedly killed, but Diablo basically instantly kills me if I do anything other than run around guzzling potions and praying, and even then my Necro friend dies to a couple pretty common ability sequences (Double nova, Bone Cage/Meteor, Volcano at his feet)

Currently I have ~1300 hp, maxed resists, 35/31 Mag/Phys DR, just shy of 800 defense and 5% absorbs from my Patriarch, save fire, which is 10%. Werewolf, Oak Sage and Fury(nearly) are maxed, working on bringing up Lycanthropy next. Currently I am level 63, and from what I was reading about pacing, my last 3 levels should have been spent in NM. That is everything character related I can think of that might be relevant. If something else would help figuring out what I am fucking up, ask away.

Thanks for any help you can offer, love the mod, just frustrating trying to progress at this point.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:12 am 

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Thanks @Angel

----

@Bahookay
First of all which version you play? solo or multiplayer?
I said that monsters were easy but that was at the beginning of act 1. I can see how they could scale though.. currently being in act 2. they are fine.
Btw i tried the multi version and the difference was pretty noticeable even in act 1 :D


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:19 am 

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Did you miss the part where I said I was playing with my friend? :D

Playing multiplayer on 1.7


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:52 am 
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I was lvl 85 when I beat normal, not 60

Diablo hurts really bad and is not someone your druid will want to face tank. Which means you are basically oak bitch for this fight. Hopefully the D chases you so you can keep his fire hose / flame wave the opposite direction of your necro friend. Either he needs teleport or you need to be on cage breaking duty, since bone cage is a counter and once you can't dodge his dmg you're fucked. If the necro is dying to flame waves he probably needs some sorb and/or a bunch of juvs

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:01 pm 

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That certainly clarifies some things for me, thanks for the tips! I'll be sure to check with him next time we play, see if we can get him some absorbs/teleport oskill so he stays alive while I play some benny hill in the background. Cheers.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:45 pm 

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I think diablo is level 70. And his armageddon hits super hard, even with 57% fire res and 17% sorb. Once i hit about 80 mdr and pdr, a 4s ral shield, 2x dwarf it was doable.

Edit

Whether it was simply the power spike at 75, diablo being overtuned, or baal being undertuned. Baal was a joke. Like face tank nado everything joke. The exception was madowac, who has some aura that killed me in sub 1 second. Usually an aoe aura isn't a problem, but nado is difficult to aim. Also, he desyncs like crazy. His actual attacks are meaningless.

Another little sub note. Andariel in nm. Her poison would drain my health in 3 seconds, but my mercs prayer is strong enough to heal through the poison and her auto counters. Where as madowac instantly killed me when I telestomped him.

The champ zerkers were more dangerous than andy because ww clearly is bugged.


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