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 Post subject: Which HU version is the closest to D2 Vanilla ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:11 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:11 pm
Posts: 58
Is there a version of HU that plays exactly as D2 vanilla but with the additional areas, monsters, the new boss AI or whatever this is that make the fights so awesome and the skills modified like for example to summon SM and SW at the same time + the better chance of dropping good items and charms ?

I don't really dig and don't get the point of 444k health, defense, mana and damage. I really hope you understand what I mean and please if there is such a version of that mod send me a link. That would be greatly appreciated. Or if there isn't one, is there a chance you guy could make one for the latest released if it's not such a hassle ? SP version of course :) 10x in advance homies!


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 Post subject: Re: Which HU version is the closest to D2 Vanilla ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 1113
Location: Vancouver, BC
I'm not sure there is a version of HU that fits your request, although I think looking for the earliest version you can find is the way to go. Consider browsing the PhrozenKeep mod archive, which happens to have HU v1.2 Solo Edition. If you investigated their forum, and ask which mods are similar to Vanilla but with more challenge, then you might get good results.

As far as large-number reductions are concerned, I know HUv1.7 uses smaller numbers for HP, etc, but otherwise has very little in common with Vanilla. It does have a solo version though.


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 Post subject: Re: Which HU version is the closest to D2 Vanilla ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:22 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:11 pm
Posts: 58
Thank you man. You're very helpful every time! Respect! I'll try to explain what I mean again. Closest to vanilla I mean in terms of not getting 50k health, 100k defence and 1 million damage. Just use the original game values and add the whole mod on that and then balance it, but don't go crazy with those high numbers. Keep ALL of the mod's new maps, areas, monster, skills, items bosses, ALL.

I don't really get the point of the BIGGER NUMBERS ? Cuz more looks cool ? I think it looks silly because you have that high numbers you never seen in original diablo and yet you still get rekt from 1 hit from Mephisto. You have only the illusion of being ultra powerful. Other than "cosmetic" buff I don't see the point. If someone can explain to me why is that done it will be very educational. Maybe there is REASONABLE purposose for that but I don't mod so I don't have idea what it could be ?


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 Post subject: Re: Which HU version is the closest to D2 Vanilla ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 1113
Location: Vancouver, BC
I'm sure there are plenty of reasons for big numbers, but here are a few I'm familiar with.

An unintentional reason for large numbers is that when numbers get very big at the same rate, the magnitude of the difference between them decreases. For example, you'd notice if spell1 does 100 damage while spell2 does 50, but if you buffed them both by 10000 damage then it becomes hard to notice when spell1 does 10100 while spell2 does 10050. This can lead to a "balanced" system as you get around to buffing everything.

An intentional reason for a large number is when you want to divide it into segments. For example, in D2 a spell's damage increase is divided into 5 Tiers, and intuitively players will expect Tier5 to be bigger than Tier4. If the spell's damage is very high (e.g. 10000), then you could make Tier5 be 1000 while Tier4 was 900, which would probably satisfy the players even though those numbers are effectively the same (each is about a 10% improvement, so if a monster dies after 4 attacks then he'll probably still die in 4 attacks). If The spell damage were low (e.g. 5), then the smallest increase you can have is +1 (i.e. 20%), which quickly becomes hard to balance.

One of the things I found frustrating with balancing HUv1.7 was when monsters spawned with "Cold Enchanted" because they gained 75%ColdRes. Since percentage is out of 100, this seemed like a ridiculous waste of the 100 numbers available. I didn't want immunities in Norm difficulty, but 25%Res is often too small to notice, and anything larger would lead to an Immunity when 75% was added. Luckily PureRage edited the code to reduce the 75% buff down to 33%. Some numbers can't grow larger, but maybe they can increase in decimal places. It's likely you've already played games where an effect goes from 20% to 21% to 21.5% to 21.6% etc. D2 tried to do this with their diminishing returns formula, but they don't keep track of decimals so 22% and 22.5% have the same value. High precision and high numbers are very closely related.

HU has had about a decade of buffing-growth in an effort to get things to a point most folks enjoy, and I'm sure it's at a decently enjoyable point currently. Just try to keep the relative magnitude of numbers in mind. If you've got 10kHP while monsters do 1k to 1.1k damage, then you'll survive 9 hits.


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