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 Post subject: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:24 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:28 pm
Posts: 16
Hi

I'v noticed that it's pretty much impossible to gamble Elite items in Hell Unleashed. This might be intentional, or not. I have examined the DifficultyLevels.txt -file (which can be used to define gambling odds) and I have noticed that the values used for gambling exceptional and elite items are... illogical.

I'm not very good at explaining stuff in english since it's not my native language but I'll try.

DifficultyLevels.txt has two columns for exceptional/elite gambling; GambleUber and GambleUltra. GambleUber is used to define the odds for gambling exceptional items and GambleUltra is for elite items. HU has values 4000/2000 for these colums in Hell difficulty. Due the nature how gambling in d2 works, it's almost impossible to gamble normal / elite items on hell difficulty right now. D2 first calculates the probability to gamble exceptional item (ignoring GambleUltra value) and if upgrade to exceptional does not happen, it calculates normal/elite next. This means that if there is 90% probability to gamble exceptional item, 10% is left for normal/elite items regardless of GambleUltra (elite items) value. Now with value of 4000 GambleUber, odds for exceptinal items are almost always over 100% and thus elite items are very difficult to gamble (with character same level as the desired item, there is a low chance for elite item to spawn from gamble).

Gambling set and unique items is simple in Diablo 2. It's plain % probability (100000 / GambleRare or GambleSet or GambleUnique -value) while gamble for exceptional and elite items is more complex.

Gambling exceptional and elite items is explained here: http://d2mods.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15203 see second and last post.

I made simple calculator to demonstrate (and to experiement) gambling odds: https://rompetta.dy.fi/d2/gamble.html

Is it intentional that gambling elite items is near impossible in hu? I think the odds should be changed.


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:44 am
Posts: 96
I'm sure this change was intentional so that people use gambling when lvling and leave best hell items for farming. Ofc you can still gamble facets, which is what most people do at hell gamblers.


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 996
Elites cannot be gambled and never could for as long as I can remember.


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:34 am
Posts: 353
its been like that for a long time yeah.

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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:01 pm
Posts: 1378
At one point it was discussed that if elites should be able to be gambled. The overwhelming response was no. With the amount of gold that is available, it makes getting highend gear trivial.

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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:28 pm
Posts: 16
Ok. Moonstone crafting is just going to be pain :D


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:40 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:23 pm
Posts: 81
You can buy elite blue items from vendors in hell for crafting. Or if you aren't quite to hell you can always craft the exceptional version, upgrade to elite then recraft with the elite recipe. So it shouldn't really be a big deal in terms of crafting especially since you can use the same crafted item over and over.

The idea of not gambling elites is to prevent people from getting to a certain level then sticking a finger in Gheeds ass for several hours while you gamble all the best elite uniques and sets without having to earn it in hell.


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:33 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:55 pm
Posts: 28
My opinion, craft item is sucks.
I tried. And my craft armor is 2 Shadow Discipline skill, some res, 6% reduce cursed duration. No maximum life, no dr, no more def. Total sucks!


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:44 am
Posts: 96
living2nd wrote:
My opinion, craft item is sucks.
I tried. And my craft armor is 2 Shadow Discipline skill, some res, 6% reduce cursed duration. No maximum life, no dr, no more def. Total sucks!


Not sure how crafting works on this patch, but Im sure its nearly the same as other patches. Crafting in HU is hevily RNG based mate, you wont get a good item on first try ( most likely ), Crafted proly around 1000 + items on several patches and I always found it interesting and rewarding, eventualy. Especialy when you can get an end game item, if you just keep farming. Its one of this things that will definately make you stronger.

From what you wrote I see you have a lot to learn about how itemization works in d2. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:10 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:55 pm
Posts: 28
Zen1337 wrote:
living2nd wrote:
My opinion, craft item is sucks.
I tried. And my craft armor is 2 Shadow Discipline skill, some res, 6% reduce cursed duration. No maximum life, no dr, no more def. Total sucks!


Not sure how crafting works on this patch, but Im sure its nearly the same as other patches. Crafting in HU is hevily RNG based mate, you wont get a good item on first try ( most likely ), Crafted proly around 1000 + items on several patches and I always found it interesting and rewarding, eventualy. Especialy when you can get an end game item, if you just keep farming. Its one of this things that will definately make you stronger.

From what you wrote I see you have a lot to learn about how itemization works in d2. ;)


Yeah, my character is lv 96. I crafted on an Archon plate? What the fuck i have to learn??? Sucks anyway. I see a pic of crafted armor, 30% maximum life, 14% dr, 10%reduce cursed duration, 2 all skills. It was heavily nerfed.


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:31 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
Posts: 106
Didn't get high-end item on the first try? Must be nerfed, you guys. Smh.


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:30 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
You have to be pagan to get good loot in Diablo. True story.

Here's a quote from the 1.5 changelog:

Mrawskrad wrote:
Items
- Armors with 150 str requirement or higher can spawn with hp% and dr% as a magical affix.
- 150-160 str = 12-15% hp; 12-13 dr%
- 161-169 str = 16-20% hp; 13-14 dr%
- 170-180 str = 21-25% hp; 14-15 dr%
- 200+ str = 26-30% hp; 15-17 dr%


An Archon Plate requires 104 strength. Also, RNG is RNG. Or, as you put it, "sucks anyway!!1!".


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:07 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:55 pm
Posts: 28
GoryDays wrote:
You have to be pagan to get good loot in Diablo. True story.

Here's a quote from the 1.5 changelog:

Mrawskrad wrote:
Items
- Armors with 150 str requirement or higher can spawn with hp% and dr% as a magical affix.
- 150-160 str = 12-15% hp; 12-13 dr%
- 161-169 str = 16-20% hp; 13-14 dr%
- 170-180 str = 21-25% hp; 14-15 dr%
- 200+ str = 26-30% hp; 15-17 dr%


An Archon Plate requires 104 strength. Also, RNG is RNG. Or, as you put it, "sucks anyway!!1!".


As I said, database is outdated and no one fix it.
People just search what they need on http://hudb.arimyth.com/ , not in this forum.
What is RNG? @@


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:00 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:55 pm
Posts: 28
http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag3 ... cmirj.jpeg

Yeah, so i must craft many times to make it better? LOL. Fuck "RNG".


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:01 pm
Posts: 1378
This is up to date on crafts.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4699

Rolling rares or crafts has always been up to Random Number Generation, minus some constraints.

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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:28 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 996
living2nd wrote:
http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag334/The_Ssn/13084132_1130396377023730_80849013_n.png_zps0hdcmirj.jpeg

Yeah, so i must craft many times to make it better? LOL. Fuck "RNG".


Please understand, crafting is literally the same as finding any rare item, except it comes with a few pre-determined stats based on the gem you use. There is no PHAT LEWT bonus for being crafted. Most rare items you find will be terrible, just like most crafts will be terrible. But even just a decent craft, with 4 sockets of anything you want can be a pretty good item.


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:20 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:55 pm
Posts: 28
Ensley03 wrote:
living2nd wrote:
http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag334/The_Ssn/13084132_1130396377023730_80849013_n.png_zps0hdcmirj.jpeg

Yeah, so i must craft many times to make it better? LOL. Fuck "RNG".


Please understand, crafting is literally the same as finding any rare item, except it comes with a few pre-determined stats based on the gem you use. There is no PHAT LEWT bonus for being crafted. Most rare items you find will be terrible, just like most crafts will be terrible. But even just a decent craft, with 4 sockets of anything you want can be a pretty good item.


"Armors with 150 str requirement or higher can spawn with hp% and dr% as a magical affix."
Is it true?


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:35 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 996
In 1.6c all rare and crafted chest armor at level 55+ can spawn with mods including 7-10% DR, +400 HP, +25 all resist, +40 single resists, 400% def, +2 to a skill tree, 40% FHR, 25 DR, 10 MDR, and other things. The odds of getting several of these with the highest rolls is quite low, but these also stack with your base crafted bonuses, and you can give it 4 sockets.

This means a blood torso could spawn with +540 HP, or a safety torso could spawn with 560% def, 45 DR, and 26 MDR along with 10% DR, and 4 Ber runes would add 12% more DR for 22% DR. Or 4 Uber rubies could make a chest with +1360 HP.


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:44 am
Posts: 96
"level 55+ can spawn with mods including 7-10% DR, +400 HP, +25 all resist, +40 single resists, 400% def, +2 to a skill tree, 40% FHR, 25 DR, 10 MDR, and other things."

I didn't have much time testing this patch, but since we going off topic I just wanted to say, for some reason itemization feels much diferent then pre 1.6 patches. What I wanted to say is that it seems more stale, in perticular the rare items stats. When I was looking for some rare chest it felt like every second one I identify is similiar to the last.

~My memory could be playing tricks on me tho last time I played d2 was probadly like year ago on diferent patch~

It just dosn't feel right for some reason, dont like the + all ress and + extra one spawning together so often.

I do like the + 2 all skill tree for rare, it always felt like rare items could use some tweak so people id them more often not only class specific wepons etc. I believe there is a way to balance some less "viable" rare piece options to make them on par with high tier hell items when it comes to character optimization. But ofcourse heavily RNG gate walled.

Some already id worthy rare pieces would be ofc

Rings, Amulets, Boots, Gloves (cous of skill) Some helmets that can spawn + skill tiaras and other class specific helms and weapons.

Rares that coud use a prefix sufix boost:

Shields, (not pala ones) Normal weapons (no class) Belts

Mayby give a small chance for this items to spawn with + random skill, tree, class ? Especialy belts!

Or diferently... If we want to balance the whole + skill meta we could allow rare items spawn with some nice combinations with much higher stats then unique items like

a rare chest with way more def then best unique chest, other one with some sick hp or ress, all balanced ofc to not make it to op but so that a player can actualy choose to and its gona be viable to keep such a piece on.

atm in most cases, and I do realize that was the trend in d2 since the release of Lord of Destruction if item can have + hight skill, and it dosnt spawn with it its just placeholder.

d2 classic had beter balanced itemization.

Just some of my thoughs.


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 Post subject: Re: Gambling in HU
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:55 pm
Posts: 28
I am talking about craft in 1.6b. I and my friend craft many times, never see dr or maximumlife.


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