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 Post subject: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:53 pm
Posts: 36
Hi mod makers, editors patch experts of this great multiplayer mod.
I really love this mod, but playing it singleplayer is just too hard for a lot of classes.
I started playing this mod with a druid 1.6b and it was okay till I came to hell... (I always played against the regular monsters with 8 players ingame and switched to 1 player when I wanted to kill a Bossmonster.)

Then I gathered all my mules and started a sorc. It was fun till I came to andariel.
It was just impossible to beat her solo with my sorc. I believe an amazone or an assasin end maybe even a necro would have no chances with no good equipment to beat andariel solo.

I already changed the HP table in the d2mod.ini to
I used with my druid these rates:
"HPTable = 150,200,200,250,300,300,350,350"
then I changed it to
"HPTable = 0,200,200,250,300,300,350,350"

and currently I am using these rates for my sorc:
HPTable = -90,-75,0,150,200,250,300,350

However the monsters somehow reheal when i use the -x or 0 till I use different magic spells to attack.

So because of these problems I want to ask if you can tell me how to change the hps of the Bossmonsters, so that I can find the best value for playing this mod solo singleplayer. I already tried to do it with an mpqeditor but always when I changed some values of the Bossmonsters the chars did not load.

I would love to create a solo version for this mod which is not too hard and not too easy, of course that's tough but right now I got holidays and a lot of time. So if someone would have time to explain me how to edit the right hp values I would be really thankful!


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:03 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
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Lowering the HPscaling from 350 to under 200 is already a massive, massive nerf. It was originally changed because people were single-spawning bosses and then zerging it down with a group, so HPscaling was changed to a universal amount.

There are/were people playing online in hell with the 350 amount. It's not really possible to make the current version easier without making it a complete faceroll. I would suggest you update to 1.6c and start over. The leech amounts are higher, sorc damage is much improved, etc.

Teaching someone how to mod from ground 0 would be like being told you have terminal cancer, but I could possibly make a super easy version of the game if you wanted. Like I said though I'd try 1.6c first and see what you think.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:11 pm 
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If you want to mod go here for basic info/fileguides/tutorials:
http://d2mods.info/forum/viewforum.php? ... 22dd350eac

Modding isn't really hard, just requires research + trial and error until you get the hang of it. Pretty much anyone can open the text files and make adustments. Balancing isn't easy though as you have many many factors to deal with that can increase/decrease damage/survivability of both the player and enemies.

Here's her full stats:
Andariel:
Level 20
6000 HP Monstats multiplier = 10200 HP
350 HP Multiplier in D2Mod.ini = 45900 HP on realm
250-300 damage multiplier = 155-186 damage
400 ar multiplier = 1584 AR

Resistances in normal:
Phys = 75%
Mag = 75%
Fire = 75%
Cold = 75%
Lightning = 75%
Poison = 85%

AndyHat:
90% absorb elemental (wtf? cap is 40% anyway, or 80% reduction)
35% Pois pierce (so you need 110% pois res to be capped, unknown unless the player checks the files)
70% DR (wtf, Really? So total phys res is 145%... You need 71% Amp to reduce her phys res by 1%)
70% Absorb mag (wtf? cap is 40% anyway or 80% reduction)
99% PLR (wtf??? So 8 sec pois duration lasts 2 frames)
4% ctc lvl 1 Hell frenzy (40% speed buff for 10 sec)

Since resistances are 75% and she has 80% additional reduction from absorb, if you have 1k listed fire damage, you deal 1000*.25*.2 = 50 damage, (204 casts to kill at 0 hp multiplier, or 918 casts on realm (350 d2mod multiplier))

Not sure if intended or not or if the actual numbers were worked out beforehand, but there it is.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:32 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
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I know it's 40% abs cap, but I was told by Doub to put overkill to make sure it works properly, I don't know why.

I don't know about only dealing 1% damage with a 46% amp because I think your resist cap string gimps it somehow. My Feral Druid can drop her in about 25 seconds but there's about a 50% chance of dying to her javelin of buttrape. Her offense is much more of a struggle to deal with than her defense.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:42 pm 
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Yeh I forgot about resist cap in this version, but boss hat DR% goes beyond cap (but is reduced fully by amp.), so anything under 71% amp is useless

Not sure why using 80% would work if 40% wouldn't. Luckily it is capped or ele damage would be healing all bosses by 60% of the damage done (600 hp per 1k damage).

As a comparison, hell baal:
level 101
25000 multiplier = 1,062,500
350 HP multiplier D2Mod = 4,781,250 hp on realm
500-600 dmg multiplier = 750-900 phys dmg base (before fana/amp etc)
1000 AR multiplier = 63090 AR

99 all res (125% pois) capped at 75% by code edit

Hat:
40% all sorb
99% plr
aura 492 = random changing immunity (does nothing as resists are capped at 75% anyway)
6% ctc hell frenzy (10 sec 40% speed)

So hell baal has worse phys resist than normal andariel/every other norm boss (50% amp vs baal = 33% more dmg, 50% amp vs norm andy = no benefit).

TL;DR - 70%DR on boss hats = amp is 100% useless vs every boss except baal, use weaken/decrep/lifetap instead and don't wear anything with ctc amp or you are just a hinderance.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:52 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
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Maybe that was done on purpose - most of that was all suggested by Doub (phrozen keep buddy) and I don't entirely understand the base resists and hats and difficulty changes. I talked a lot with him/you/brevan/my roommate while going about all this, and the monster balance has been very good, the only problem was item fails.

For the absorb though, I was told that it doesn't ever heal monsters, it just results in a damage nullifier; essentially a second tier of resists that cannot be pierced through.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:07 pm 
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Not sure who Doub is, does he play/mod HU at all? Making adjustments in 1 mod compared to another can produce wildly different results if they are not familiar with one of them. EG. Adding 10 PDR/MDR per lvl to a passive in something like Median would produce average damage reduction by endgame. Adding it here would make you immune to all but poison damage for most things. Not sure why you would implement suggestions from someone who doesn't play the mod if you're unsure of them yourself :?

Suggestions should come from the players. Only methods of implementation should come from PK/other modders.

All damage goes through the same function, 40% absorb = 40% of the damage that you would take heals you instead. So 1k gets reduced to 600, then the unit is healed by the reduced amount, so final damage is reduced to 200. The heal is applied after the damage so if you hit a 600hp mob with a 1k attack and they have 40% absorb they will die before they can be healed. There is only 1 function for damage, used by all units. I confirmed it a few years ago by removing the cap and giving 50% absorb to an enemy, the enemy took no damage.
I assume what they meant when they said it never heals is the fact it is capped at 40%, so you can never actually recover health, you will always lose 20% minimum.

The absorb that doesn't always heal is flat absorb. Flat absorb seems to only function if the unit also has the coresponding absorb% stat. (didn't test this at length, just quick check via a charm so may be more to it).

I've never been a fan of sorb/dr% on those boss hats. It just adds another layer of confusion for people. I'd rather just reduce skill damage by 80% and remove those hidden stats so people are dealing something close to the listed damage rather than ~2-20%. Also makes damage rollover less of a problem (rollover occurs before reductions).

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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:45 pm 

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I met him during the opening 1.4 disaster and I guess he's played enough to understand the numbers of the game.

Getting rid of the hats does seem like a good idea but I think that would take forever to adjust properly. You'd have to adjust the skills and white item damage, str/dex modifiers, magic affixes, etc. For example, if you nerfed base item and skill damages, charms become godly unless they are nerfed into oblivion. Finding a balance for that through all 3 difficulties would be rough.

If you're trying to remove hats in 1.7 then I don't envy you at all, lol.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:04 pm 
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Phys damage has no absorb counterpart so would be mostly unchanged, it would just make amp/decrep actually do something vs bosses. You don't need to change anything with charms etc. If phys damage is still a concern with amp, then adding ~15-18%DR instead of 70% would suffice to shave off 15-18% from amp's reduction without making the curse/procs completely useless vs bosses.

Hats are still in 1.7 but all they do is give bosses their auto-heal mechanic, 1-2 procs and 25% absorb to the element the boss is based on (25%PLR andy, 25% cold sorb dury, 25% light sorb meph, 25% fire sorb diablo), or no absorb at all for other bosses. As act bosses are non superunique they dont get the HP% multiplier/res from unique mods so the 50% additional reduction to their main element seems fair.

Edit: Back on topic, Removing the absorb/DR from those hats will make SP a much more enjoyable experience with very little other edits required. (D2Mod.ini hp multiplier could be raised again)

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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:11 pm 

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Well you said dumping absorb and DR so your damage is more closely listed as "true damage" rather than an inflated number that you'll never come close to hitting, which likely means you'd just have to give bosses a billion hp or they'd get shrekt, even with nerfed skills, right?


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:42 pm 
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If you remove dr%, all you are doing is making amp/decrep actually work against bosses.
If you remove absorb all ele damage vs bosses will be multiplied by 5 compared to now:

Below assumes char has no convic/LR and 100% pierce (average amount)
Current:
1k hit base
75% res + 40% sorb = 50 dmg.
100% pierce = 250 dmg.

If you reduce skill damage by 80%:
200 per hit base
75% res alone = 50 dmg
100% pierce = 250/hit


Below assumes the phys char has a pocket necro who maxed amp
Phys damage now: (assuming lvl 55 amp w 20 hard pts (-30% DR))
1k per hit base
75% res + 70%DR (only effects amp/decrep -phys res)
250 per hit base
-30% amp = 250 per hit (no change, 71%+ amp required)

Phys damage after: (assuming lvl 55 amp w 20 hard pts (-30% DR))
1k per hit base
75% res + 15%DR hat
250 per hit base
-30% amp = 400 per hit (phys res is reduced by 15% to 60% total)


Below assumes the phys char has only ctc lvl 5 amp (-12%)
Phys damage now:
1k per hit base
75% res + 70%DR (only effects amp/decrep -phys res)
250 per hit base
-12% amp = 250 per hit (no change, 71%+ amp required)

Phys damage after: (assuming you leave 15%DR on hat to temper the effect of amp)
1k per hit base
75% res + 15%DR hat
250 per hit base
-12% amp = 250 per hit (no change, 16% amp required)

Remember phys damage is usually lower than elemental damage at similar char/skill/gear levels and has an accuracy check + can be blocked (usually 33-50% block)

So no, if you remove the absorb and reduce skill damage you don't need to give bosses any more hp, you get the same outcome without risking damage rollover and your listed damage more closely reflects the damage you are actually doing (Only resistances adjust the damage you are doing rather than forcing an 80% reduction)


Uniqueitems.txt with no absorb/DR% for SP: (Act bosses keep 25% absorb to their main element and amp/decrep actually do something vs bosses)
Suggest returning HP table to 300,350,350,350,350,350,350,350
http://www.filedropper.com/data_9

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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:19 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:53 pm
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Thanks for the info, but if you say it is possible to defeat andariel with crappy starting gear(maybe one set item, some rares, a unique) in act 1 normal @ lvl 25-35 I really want to see you do it with a sorceress + assasin.

And if you managed it to kill Tobial and Andariel upload your char and the rate Table you have used to kill her.

The only way was for me to to kill her was using the -90 rate.

After that try to do the same in nightmare and after defeating her plz upload that char as well.

I am pretty sure you cannot defeat Andariel @ normal and Tobial @ nightmare.
@ Ensley I started my sorc with the patch 1.6c and I am also playing nm with this patch. So the increased dmg of the sorc skills did nothing for singleplayer solo.

But please do it. Maybe I did something wrong while skilling. I used a lightning nova skill as my main skill. And I used hero editor @ nm and rerolled my skills and maxed everything for frozen orb to be powerful.

So please just try solo singleplayer out. I do not mind waiting 2 weeks to see your result. Play it as if your playing HC online. And I am only talking about act 1 for now...

I do not want you to change the actual mod rates because it is definitely perfect to play it with a lot of people online. I am talking about a singleplayer solo version of this mod and not a new patch...


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:12 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
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I pretty much only played solo this patch yet and I already defeated Andariel with 3 characters, all of them being Assassins since I didn't roll anything else yet. A bladesin and 2 MA sins with slightly different builds. A mix of random socketed/jeweled rares and uniques and some mindgames if I suddenly received a moderately painful spike of damage. As a bladesin, it was arguably easier since I did it on a lower level(20 if I recall) but I rerolled into MA because I don't like how BFury works at the moment. Did it on 22 on both other characters. I play on the realm with usually 200-300ms ping, not single player. Not sure if this actually matters if I already mentioned it was all solo anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:39 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:53 pm
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Okay maybe I should not have said that an assasin has problems defeating andariel. But my nova/thunderstorm sorceress clearly had no chance. And my frozen orb sorceress had no chance defeating Tobial/Andariel in nm.
I haven't tried an assasin, I just thought it might be problematic as well because of her skills. But I am not an assasin player anyways. So sorry for mentioning an assasin although I haven't tried one out yet.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:53 pm
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Solved the nm andariel problem by using these rates:

; minimum "/players X" value allowed, normal is 1
PlayersXmin = 8
;
; maximum "/players X" value allowed, normal is 8
PlayersXmax = 8
;
HPTable = -90,-90,-90,-90,-90,-90,-90,-90

I don't know why but they worked better than
; minimum "/players X" value allowed, normal is 1
PlayersXmin = 1
;
; maximum "/players X" value allowed, normal is 8
PlayersXmax = 8
HPTable = -90,-75,0,150,200,250,300,350

and switching always between /players 1 and /players 8


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:50 pm 
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-90 in D2Mod.ini hp table for bosses... You may aswell just play another mod. -90 means they have -90% of base HP.

EG. People on the realm are killing these bosses with 350% of their base HP.
If a boss has 45k HP on the realm, your boss has 1k
If a boss has 450k hp on realm, your boss has 10k

So your bosses have 1/45 of the HP.

I know it's SP, but there comes a point where you may aswel just hack your character to 99. You're not really playing hell unleashed, your playing vanilla D2 (except vanilla D2 bosses have more HP). Not sure if the problem really requires such a huge nerf to bosses vs a tactical/gearing adjustment.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:53 pm
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Maybe I should have used a shield with fire and poison absorb but I was lazy and -90 isn't too easy. I got +19 on all my cold skills frozen orb does 7k dmg and still it took about 5 frozen orbs to kill Tobial or Andariel ;). So if I had not all my muled items I would have only +3 on my skills and would do a lot less dmg which would mean I would need a lot more frozen orbs to kill them. And I think it would take at least as long as playing Diablo2 LoD singleplayer with 8 players or maybe a bit less players ingame.
And I am more a newbie to this mod and do not really know which items I should use as a sorc to have a chance in nm. But if you start a new char without any gear you only got gems to use to get enough dmg or magic absorb, resistance. Of course you can play act5 for hours finding absorb, resistance gear but then youll be lvl 80 when you go to nm... Online it's different you got friends who can help out or can give you items that would help you for nm but that option is in singleplayer missing. Ehm I'm just glad that I did a druid as my first char. He was able to kill andariel with the 150 hp table you posted but then only was able to defeat diablo when I set the value on 0. Afterwards I always used 0 for my druid when I faced bosses. But if you play a sorc its a completely new game, but maybe I am just a bad sorc player or use the wrong skills & gear.
And I would do it differently if I knew how to change the dmg & HP values in the Patch mpq file.


Last edited by Mute2k16 on Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
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Mute2k16 wrote:
still it took about 5 frozen orbs to kill Tobial or Andariel


This is why you are not playing Hell Unleashed.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
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Yeah -90 is 20x easier than vanilla. This mod is not that hard lol. Look at the ladder, there are plenty of characters who made it to the 90s and they weren't all just running with big groups.

It's always been known that Nova is not very good vs bosses, even in its improved state. As a solo sorc you're going to need blizzard or meteor with a tanky merc.

I promise you if you try that and spend the time farming/gambling/crafting for yourself and a merc, you will be just fine in 1.6c even at 350%

Edit: 5 frozen orbs to kill andariel, lollllllllllllllll


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:53 pm
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Like I said before just upload a sorc single player char with items you only found in normal-act1 nm that helped you defeating Tobial+Andariel solo in less then 2hours with rates of 150 or if you manage to do it with 350 rate it would be also cool to see. Or upload a video file to youtube where I can see the rates in the d2mod.ini then your sorc gear and then fight Tobial and andariel.

I do not believe you guys till I see it with my own eyes. It's just impossible for me using the normal rates for single player solo.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:13 pm 

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Bro everybody does it, lol. I could put it on 450 because it's just more life so it takes longer...

You should download the 1.21z version of the game here which is probably about twice as hard and has immunities if you want to see what hard really is.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:37 pm 
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5 frozen orbs to kill a boss? Yeh you're seriously not playing hell unleashed any more. The trash mobs on /p8 will have more HP than the bosses do on /p1.

The whole theme of the mod is tough boss fights not cast a skill 5 times and win. You're looking for a different mod.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:16 pm 

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I don't know where are you even getting this less than 2 hours garbage from, to be honest. What are you trying to propose here? A speedrun or something? You want to be done with normal act 1 in precisely less than 2 hours no matter what? And honestly, why are you trying to trigger people into proving that it's possible to kill Andariel with a sorc? Why are you even arguing right now? I'm actually not sure what the fuck is going on at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
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I would say the current rendition of HU is pretty soloable by most classes. Problem units are meph(which require absurd amounts of MR to negate the bullshit) and andariel(which requires SoB).

Problem items are trangs armor on any fire unit, it takes unviable classes and makes them viable, but makes viable classes and turns them into OP monsters.

Unfortunately facets are the biggest problem, it takes any and all thoughts about the game and removes it into a hold left click until dead scenario.

Other than those things, the game is in a pretty alright state.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:10 am 

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I just did the solo run with fireball sorc. Being naked and new, Tobial and Andariel were very difficult. I had to leave and get up to level 26 and stack rubies while spamming meteor and pots. It took about 3 hours total time. I never found much of anything except for an Arcanna's chest and biggins bonnet that I put rubies in. I could see how this might be a rage-quitting experience for new players.

I lowered their resists since no one has hardly any access to pierce at that level so you're pretty much facing true mitigation that can't be avoided (other than with an Amp necro). I also lowered the resists (in normal) of radament, juggernaut1+2, and ardual. This should give very new players a chance to get leveled up and farm some before getting donkey punched. Duriel is the first true gear check of the game, and the game remains the same beyond that point as well.

This shouldn't offend anyone since A1-2 normal are not important for late-game balance and you'll start getting those 'holy shit' fights as soon as you get to Duriel.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:49 am 
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the_apologizer wrote:
Mute2k16 wrote:
still it took about 5 frozen orbs to kill Tobial or Andariel


This is why you are not playing Hell Unleashed.


Hahaha, 5 frozen orbs, WTF!!

LOOL


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:31 pm 
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Radamant is already really easy comparatively. He has few counters, attacks slow, doesn't hit too hard.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
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Go try to fight him on 1.6c with a newbie character :P

He has 0 leech value and higher resists and his teeth orb can do a lot of damage.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:44 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:56 pm
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this entire thing is fucking bullshit an ywas we are not getting a reset when we should!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:58 pm
Posts: 106
Well there's your problem. That's a sudden transition into a reset rant right there.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to make my own single player version of this mod
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:07 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
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To be fair, in the past our poison javazon would 1-2 hit hell bosses with max LR from my nec.


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