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 Post subject: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:47 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 995
This will not require a reset, so don't worry. You'll have to download the 1.6b client once Duff restarts the server with it.

My goal since I started 1.6 was to tighten up class balance and make all builds effective in their own way. I believe this puts us significantly closer towards that goal, and will be a good foundation for PureRage to add his additional content to in the next year or so.

-Dragonhand of Mephisto will no longer opt to end his own life rather than fight adventurers

-Thrack's skills have been changed so he no longer glitch-kills players

-The Council are now much stronger and should provide a much better challenge

-Slightly reduced some high end magic/rare mods

-Nerfed some gem and rune stats

-Adjusted several Runeword stats. This will result in some current Runewords becoming legacy items, but the new ones are basically all better, so you won't have any advantage with legacy items.
-Infinity is now a 3 socket Runeword, BerMalSur
-Memory is now a 3 socket Runeword, LumIoSol
The rest remain the same, but check for the updated stats on the webpagemaker

-All act bosses and some other bosses have increased base resist% and DR%

-Griswold, Leoric, Thrack, Ardual, Izual, and Lazarus should now be tougher fights

-Reduced leech amounts on many bosses and some can no longer be leeched at all

-Slightly increased velocity on several monster and player spells and projectiles

-Increased mana cost of many skills for all classes

-Nerfed all summons a fair bit

-Slightly tweaked a few complete set bonuses

-Fixed Albrecht's set

-Adjusted several skill strings to be more specific. Synergy bonuses on "levels" includes all hard and soft points. Skills that only benefit from hard points are stated as such

NEW ITEMS - you'll be able to find complete info on the bottom of the Sets and Runewords links in the webpage maker list

-New Set:

Ascenian Birthright

-New Unique:

Shadow of the Covenant

-New Runewords:

Allurement
Shadows and Dust
Vizjerei's Denouement
Rage's Purity (see what I did there?)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AMA:

-Slightly reduced Pierce and Critical Strike level gains

-Increased damage of Cold Arrow and Fire Arrow lines

-Increased damage of the Poison Jav line. The durations are now static 3s/3s/5s amounts, and the damage is much higher

ASN:

-Fixed all claws to spawn with skills!

-Increased Venom self synergy from 3% to 4%

-Blade Sentinel, Blade Fury, and Blade Shield have had their damage greatly increased. Please note that this line uses FCR, not IAS

-Blade Sentinel now allows up to 6 oscillating blades at once, and the duration gained per level has been increased. You may drop all 6 of these at once on a boss for high DPS, but they will create many counters, so be wary of it's use. They are excellent at clearing hordes of trash and burning down bosses that can be finished quickly

-Blade Fury now fires 3 blades instead of 1 and has a much higher velocity. This is a really cool skill now and should be lots of fun

-Increased damage of Dragon Talon from 15%+15%/lvl to 50%+25%/lvl and reduced the number of kicks from lvl/4+1 to lvl/5+1 This will increase the damage and reduce the number of counters.

-Chaos Ice Bolt from the Assassin and the Shadow Master will no longer cause counters

-Increased synergy damage of Fists of Fire, Claws of Thunder, and Blades of Ice from 30% to 35%, with a maximum of 700%, up from 600%.

-Increased synergy damage of Phoenix Strike from 25% to 30%, with a maximum of 600%, up from 500%

BAR:

-Slightly increased Whirlwind damage

-Increased Gale Force crit bonus per level from 1% to 2%

-Greatly increased Gale Force synergy damage (the tornado damage gained from hard points in Berserk)

-Battle Orders now adds 1% HP+Mana per 2 Hard Points (zero gain from Soft Points.) Shout duration reduced to 5 minutes

-Blood Bath now also grants passive lifesteal every 3 levels

-Find Item: Slightly reduced the level gains on this skill but increased the %chance to get better drops when it is successful. This is amplified by further investment in the skill as a max horker.

DRU:

-Added a physical damage bonus to Fire Claws and Frost Bite skills, and reduced the elemental damages. These skills are no longer useful late game and are the hangover of when Oak Sage used to give Druids 30k HP. Without that massive HP pool or rejuv pots, using an ele attack in melee is terrible due to poor leech, and makes it nearly impossible to survive. Adding a physical bonus will help contribute to leech, while still being attacks that primarily add ele damage

-Changed Frostbite synergies from Cyclone Armor+Hurricane to Arctic Blast+Hurricane. This makes it no longer superior to Fireclaws simply due to way better synergies, and more about just preference

-Lycanthropy has been redesigned. It no longer provides any regen, but instead adds permanent passive resists, similar to Natural Resistance, but less effective and adds no MDR. At skill level 20, it adds +35 all resists with diminished returns beyond that

-Increased Armageddon and Hurricane synergy damage

-Spirit of Barbs now gains 1% ele absorb and Poison Mastery every 5 levels

-Fixed Feral Rage duration

NEC:

-Raise Skeleton Warrior and Raise Skeleton Archer have been redesigned. They now have more life, defense, AR, block chance, and slightly more damage. The number of skeletons you receive is now 1 at level 1 and then +1 skeleton every 4 levels (5 total at level 20). Soft points will also increase your number of skeletons per these increments indefinitely, so if you still want a zoo, you can have it if you stack skills

-Greatly increased velocity of Skeleton Archer arrows

PAL:

-Slightly reduced Holy Shield defense bonus

-Reduced Blessed Aim lifesteal bonus from 1% per level to 1% every 3 levels

-Greatly increased Sanctuary damage and synergy bonus

-Resist Fire/Cold/Lighning gain 1% absorb every 4 levels. Base amount has been reduced to 3%

-Salvation now gains 1% ele absorb every 5 levels

-Increased synergy damage bonus for Holy Fire/Freeze/Shock, and further adjusted damages: Holy Fire does the most average damage, Holy Shock has the highest maximum damage, and Holy Freeze does the least damage, but chills and slows enemies

-Slightly increased synergy damage bonus for Blessed Hammer

-Increased synergy damage bonus for Fist of the Heavens

SOR:

-Increased Frozen Orb damage

-Frozen Orb will now cause significantly fewer counters

-Increased Meteor synergy damage from 8% to 11% and adjusted the burn duration to a static amount of 4 seconds. Increasing the impact damage is better than increasing the burn duration, because then the game doesn't have to draw as many textures and lags out a lot less, as well as avoids some serious balance problems for crazy people who get level 60+ meteor. The cast delay has been reduced to 25 frames, down from 35.

-Slight increase in damage for the FlameWave/Blaze/FireWall line

-Greatly increased damage of Static

-Nerfed Enchant

-Reduced synergy damage bonus on Chilling and Shiver armors

-Reverted the mastery skills to where they simply add damage to your specific element. This makes it easier to understand for new players, and while Mraw's mastery for split spec is amazing, he also conceded that split spec doesn't really matter anymore since there's a monster resist cap. Please note that you can still only invest into 1 Mastery
~~~~~~~~~
EDITS: After much feedback and discussion with players in game, it appears that, rather than nerf Zeal, it is better to bring other skills more on par with it. These added changes are:

-un-nerfed Zeal
-Increased Feral Rage dmg/lvl by 5%
-Increase Fury base damage from 100% to 125%
-Increased Frenzy base damage by 25% and dmg/lvl by 5%
-Increased Whirlwind dmg/lvl by 5%
-Increased Stun base damage by 25%
-Increased Concentrate base damage by 10%
-Increased Berserk base damage by 25%
-Increased Jab base damage from 35% to 75%
-Increased Fend base damage from 150% to 165%
-Changed Vengeance to +50% dmg,+20%/lvl, +20% synergies
-Increased Tiger Strike dmg/lvl by 10%
-Increased Claw Mastery dmg/lvl by 5%


Last edited by Ensley03 on Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:00 am, edited 31 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:14 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:08 am
Posts: 8
Ensley03 wrote:
-Reduced leech amounts on many bosses and some can no longer be leeched at all


:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:22 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:19 pm
Posts: 7
I like most of these. I feel like some physical damage builds (ww) are being punished because other physical damage builds (zeal) are much stronger with life leech vs bosses. I struggle on my ww barb against many bosses currently even with the amount of life leech we can do against them. I would suggest finding a way to balance this issue across physical damage builds before nerfing life leech against bosses.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:30 am 
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Excited! Even tho insta Rip council is fixed. lol

Patch it up asap!


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:57 am 
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I would issue some words of warning with this list.
Adjusting ele zon skills is something that should not be taken lightly. Fire zons were way over the top at one point. Going back that direction needs to be handled with a lot of care. Before this is done, I would like to hear from an 'expert' with them. A few come to mind, but I am not throwing anybody under the bus.

Same with poison. Yes poison in general has been repeatedly nerfed over the years...it is finally something that takes a lot of dedication to make worthwhile...I really don't want rooms of 5 javzons again.


No life leech...this is simply not consistent with the 'no immunities'.

And please be very specific on numbers on most of these things. This is a lot of significant changes to be putting in a hotfix.

Hotfix, in my opinion is for game breaking things, or serious curing of bugs.

And i dunno wanna remember new gd runewords that have been the same for a decade..please.

Edit: Salvation..you mean soft points now? You know how strong this is versus other class absorbs?

Why does FoH need damage boost?

Hit points were worked on A LOT, with a lot of math, and serious discussion before 1.5. Throwing this away...and making it weird and stopping at level 12?

Meteor Fire duration...and other fire skill durations for that matter. Again, this was done for several reasons...one of them simply to lighten the draw load, and secondly, meteor, when stacked...is wtf strong. And it already has quite good hitting power.

Changes of this order need to have very clear reasoning behind them, and there needs to be time for people to consider this pretty large list.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:13 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
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Kramuti -

-Javzon poison was increased by about 3%

-ele zons are currently REALLY REALLY bad. Freezing arrow at level 30 with max synergies does like 4k damage. Now it will be about 12k aoe, on top of your single target base damage. That's less than a glacial spike which has the same freeze and similar area

-No life leech only applies to Radament, Dragonhand, Moloch, and Akhmel. You can still do damage to them, you just cant hold down zeal and go AFK anymore. Use Draculs if it makes you mad.

-Runeword changes, it's mostly just giving DR% to chests, more defense% on many, and normalizing some of the caster staves

-...Level 40 Salvation will give you 10% ele abs. If you ballsohard that much Salvation, I don't see the issue. Plus you have to actually have it on

-FOH is bad since they removed bypass, and it's only a 4% increase

-Several people have said the HP loss for shapeshift is shit since that was all they had over barbs and pallys. It's a gain of about 200 hp

-Meteor is a dead build and many people have also expressed bringing this back to where you can cast more than 2 at a time. It is still weaker than blizzard unless you spam them on a boss, but then you will eat a lot of counters, and it requires an 80 pt build


Last edited by Ensley03 on Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:17 am 
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i dont see some of youre " issue" game breaking. no life leech is only on very select few bosses. also its trial and error. if we want the perfect patch things must be tinkered with. i say post it and lets see how this goes.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:03 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
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Also, my testing was all done with pretty serious overkill. For example, I tested the new Blade skills on a lvl 99 with 300 str/dex, unlimited life and 2 Shadowkillers in a4-5 Hell

Bow ele skills were tested with mavinas, and they seemed very good vs trash (just like multishot...) but were not super great against bosses, since AoE doesn't matter on bosses, and the single target damage is not very good. If you could get them to sit in an Immolation spam, the damage was decent, but then they start spamming falling rocks and all that dumb shit on you.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:07 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:58 pm
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-Chaos Ice Bolt from the Assassin and the Shadow Master will no longer cause counters

Unless Chaos Ice bolt no longer has a next-hit delay, I don't see the point of this change as this skill hardly ever hits a boss more than once or twice because of the delay. (Claws of thunder third charge causes way more counter than this)

The Pheonix elite claw equivalent to the other 3 elemental claws appears to have been removed(?) for some reason.

The Deception claw runeword was originally added because elemental MA had nothing whatsoever before the elite claws start dropping. Now theres a level 20 unique claw, which is nice, but apart from that, the chance of dropping a Mal rune in normal seems pretty slim (unless Nil drops up to that and I'm not aware of that).

Jade Talon is the next best thing, sorta, and seeing that drop in normal seems just as unlikely.

So unless Nil drops up to Mal in normal, it'd be nice if the runeword was changed slightly to something easier to aquire in normal difficulty. (And for the ICS to be changed to IAS, MAs aren't casters and trap sins/Mental sins have access to their own runewords)


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:22 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
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Mage-Slayers set is designed to help all assassins through midgame, along with the uniques and couple of runewords.

Shadowkiller is the unique claw for phoenix, and the exceptional uniques with Mal or diamonds are very good too.

I didn't remove the counters from CoT lightning meteor because IMO it's the best finisher


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:36 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:58 pm
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Ensley03 wrote:
Mage-Slayers set is designed to help all assassins through midgame, along with the uniques and couple of runewords.

Shadowkiller is the unique claw for phoenix, and the exceptional uniques with Mal or diamonds are very good too.

I didn't remove the counters from CoT lightning meteor because IMO it's the best finisher


That still doesn't explain why you felt it necessary to remove the counters on Chaos Ice.

After checking MageSlayers, I'm thorn. The absorb is fantastic, but that's pretty much all the set has going for it, and it definitelly doesn't provide a replacement for my level 20 claw that I'm still using at level 60 due to nothing being better (I have plenty of white +3s but losing that AS severely hurts the DPS)


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:16 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:08 am
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You really need to stop getting so salty when someone doesn't agree with a change. Honestly, people are going to disagree but keep going, it'll get figured out.

To make it easier for me let me know exactly what changed item wise (maybe write it down as you go) so I don't have to dig through the item files to find that you gave something 2% more DR.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:31 pm 
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ThugsBunny wrote:
You really need to stop getting so salty when someone doesn't agree with a change. Honestly, people are going to disagree but keep going, it'll get figured out.

To make it easier for me let me know exactly what changed item wise (maybe write it down as you go) so I don't have to dig through the item files to find that you gave something 2% more DR.

I agree that a detailed change list should be made sure with item update to skills but when every patch you make someone has something bad to say, well do you blame for the saltyness? I surely dont. So far ensley is doing good. Hes also being active with updates which thats what we need. You find somethings too op? He fixes. Bosses too easy? He fixes. Give it time i have good vibes from ensley so let him work while we all play and keep bugs and balance issues posted. Trial and error.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:07 pm 
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Not saying he isn't doing good, I like most of the changes. I highlighted one I wasn't sure of and he explained it further and I'm ok with it and I'll see how it shakes out. The change is aimed at nerfing Zeal but stretches further to all melee characters is my only problem with the change.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:30 pm 
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Zeal is op. I made one and soloed to a4 till people started to join and continued to face tank. All they need it fant and defensive equipment and still have op dps. I 100% the zeal nerf


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:31 pm 

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Agreed zeal op nurf nerf narf


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:59 pm 
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Soloing normal isn't an indication of anything in this mod by the way. I could solo normal with anything if I gold farmed long enough.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:40 pm 
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pls make blade fury spread out and auto track enemies again. I think even 3 blades (assuming 1 straight and 2 diagonal) would still suck. Feels extremely underwhelming at the moment


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:47 pm 

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I think the new blade fury is in a good place. I don't want to create the horror of the old bladesins, or as Pious said, my head will end up on a pike. :D

You're getting more blades, more damage, and more velocity. That's a pretty big buff.

The new blade fury is great for ranged attack, sentinel is great for trash clear and boss burning, and shield does good damage now.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:33 pm 
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LockDown wrote:
Soloing normal isn't an indication of anything in this mod by the way. I could solo normal with anything if I gold farmed long enough.

Kinda considering its not made for solo play regardless of which difficulty. Zealer is now in a3 nm soloed him there.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:22 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:16 am
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Ensley,
I appreciate your passion for improving the game and what you have contributed to the current patch, but...
If you can find a way to reset all the skills with the hotfix you can go ahead with the changes.
But if a one time skill reset isn't possible then changing around skills/synergies would mess up builds. So no thanks, not again.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:27 pm 

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The council and Thrack issues alone are a strong need for a fix. Unfortunately there's no way to reset skills since we use 1.10, and the only real loss here is if you made a Frost Bite Druid. Everything else will still be fine. If that's your situation, then I'll be happy to level with your new one. You can always just mule your gear. Keep in mind this is also the last patch we will have for a long time, because Duff doesn't want to upload and restart it this often, so your future characters will all be safe for the next year or so at least.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:26 am 
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Kodiac wrote:
LockDown wrote:
Soloing normal isn't an indication of anything in this mod by the way. I could solo normal with anything if I gold farmed long enough.

Kinda considering its not made for solo play regardless of which difficulty. Zealer is now in a3 nm soloed him there.



Except this patch was meant to make it soloable for single and duo?

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:47 am 
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LockDown wrote:
Kodiac wrote:
LockDown wrote:
Soloing normal isn't an indication of anything in this mod by the way. I could solo normal with anything if I gold farmed long enough.

Kinda considering its not made for solo play regardless of which difficulty. Zealer is now in a3 nm soloed him there.



Except this patch was meant to make it soloable for single and duo?


No, it was meant for smaller parties as little as a duo. its more enjoyable as solo.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:16 am 

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Kodiac wrote:

No, it was meant for smaller parties as little as a duo. its more enjoyable as solo.


This


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:23 am 
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Ensley03 wrote:
Kodiac wrote:

No, it was meant for smaller parties as little as a duo. its more enjoyable as solo.


This


If we are going to doing this, then might I simply point out this.

This mod is focused towards group multiplayer in a manner of which a group of friends or players can start fresh new characters and fight through the forces of hell side by side, although there is a solo edition available.
As multiplayer is the prime focus here, Solo play in the sense of progressing onward is not recommended. Solo play is used mainly as a means of treasure hunting, catching up in experience or refining gear and skills… Those purely interested in solo play will find a huge obstacle in bosses, as they were designed mainly for multiplayer combat…
I recommend 3-6 players for the full mod.

found here
http://www.arimyth.com/hell.htm

We were left with this on a silver platter. Please remember this at the heart of what you do.

I don't know if this is already done and submitted, or if this is a work in progress. If the latter, I don't know how long it is until Duff is flipping the switch.

If builds are totally changing, then I really do not see a reason to play until it is done. I just made it through normal, took several days off since servers were wonky and people were getting restless. Now I am looking at NM, and the build I haven't played 2/3 of the game with is being drastically altered.

I made serious skill choices on whether to the right branch of the Def tree. Now this is going to change somewhere in the middle of the game? No thanks.

I won't bother with balance at this point because that is of secondary consequence, and deserving of another thread.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:32 am 

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If having an OP build's damage normalized is "drastically altered" then I don't know what else to tell you. I assure you, Zeal is still functional.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:31 am 

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Adjusted OP for Sorc changes


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:51 am 
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Albrecht's Anguish set bonus is broken.

Suppose to be
2 Pieces:
+5% Life Steal

Completed Set:
+100 Defense
+15% Faster Run/Walk
+1 to All Skills
+15% chance for Deadly Strike
5% chance for Crushing Blow
+15% Resist Magic

According to files, in game it gives.

+15% Faster Run/Walk
5% Life Leech
+100 Defense

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:04 am 

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^This was fixed but I forgot to put it in the notes :D


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:16 am 
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I've not played HU since 1.41c so balance wise, I'm out of the loop. My involvement in patches since 1.41d has switched to a strictly advisory role modding wise and helping the people who are making balance decisions to implement the things they are aiming for.

Having said that, here's some things to keep in mind:
Meteor Patches
Be very very, VERY careful with stackable DoT effects. Meteor fire duration was nerfed because you could stack 10-11 patches then pull a boss into it and watch it die in 8-10 seconds. A gentle touch is required with this kinda thing, before you even consider no immunities.

Eg. 50 frames + 1 frame plev at lvl 50 with 25 frame CD on meteor and 10kdps per stack (Not exact figures, simply using those to demonstrate dps growth by increasing duration on flame patches)

lvl 50 meteor results in 100 frame duration per patch divided by cooldown = 4 stacks at 10k/stack = 40kdps baseline

Now we increase the duration to 2 frames per level:
lvl 50 meteor results in 150 frame duration per patch divided by cooldown = 6 stacks at 10k/stack = 60kdps or a 50% net increase.

Now we increase the duration to 4 frames per level:
lvl 50 meteor results in 250 frame duration per patch divided by cooldown = 10 stacks at 10k/stack = 100kdps or a 150% net increase in damage simply by giving it an extra 3 frames duration per level.

The problem you face here is the scaling nature of fire stacks and duration/level. A cleaner approach would be to increase the base burn time and possibly remove the gains per level completely. That way you know the exact burn time each patch will have at all times, and how many you can stack.

Again, I'm not sure how far out of whack meteor build is, but I remember my old meteor sorc completely raping everything not immune in seconds. All she needed was a merc who could survive 8-10 seconds with potion spam on him. It got even more disgusting if you put slow% gear on the merc you didn't even need to use a pot. Just let the merc tap the boss then start teleporting around your patch while the boss melted trying to get to you. :lol:

Blade Sentinel
Again, be wary of both "greatly" increasing damage and increasing duration + doubling the number you can have at a time. Doubling the number you can have is 100% more damage, after factoring in everything else so:

Eg. 100 damage sentinel * 3 blades = 300 damage
50% damage boost + double the number of blades = 150 * 6 blades = 900 damage (triple damage). Again this is due to increased scaling like fire patches but less severe. Be cautious.


Lastly, I wouldn't change synergies from 1 skill to another in the middle of a ladder, unless it was really broken or required. If I was playing and I had built a frostbite druid in the little spare time I have to play. Then found it's synergys got changed in the middle of the season, I'd just say fuck it and play another game.

Is there a download available for these changes so the guys with time can take a look at anything they are concerned with before it goes live? If not, there really needs to be, in case you missed something. It's easy to forget to disable something you use for testing. See the 1.41d changelog thread for an example when I forgot to remove a portal proc from my test subjects. Luckily that was spotted before it went live or I'd have been picking a whole bunch of oopsie daisys.

Edit: OP was updated while I was writing this so some points may be moot now IDK.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:26 am 
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Meteor patch duration was 75 frames with no growth per level, it's now 25 + 3 frames/lvl. Cooldown is 35 frames so compared to current dps:

50% reduction in patch DPS at slvl1
Equal DPS at slvl 17
~130% DPS boost at slvl 50 (damage*2.3)

Edit: Remember you could reduce the cooldown to 25 frames and leave the duration at a static 75 or 100 frames.

Reducing cooldown to 25 Frames is a 50% dps increase just by allowing you to stack a third patch, but also increases mana consumption by ~45% to balance it out. Increasing the duration to a static 105 frames and leaving the cooldown alone would also increase DPS by 50% without increasing mana consumption. Doing both would give a 100% dps increase and 50% mana consumption increase.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:03 am 

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That would work too but simply seems like adding a way to go around your ass to get to your elbow. I know there are crazy people here who push the limits on builds, which is why I figured 7s for a lvl 51 meteor was decent.

I think static burn duration would be the absolute safest way, but trying to stack skills for burn duration is a cool aspect and gives people something to look forward to. I think 100 frame duration and 25 frame delay would be good too. That being said, it's also nice to be able to cast them faster, and it will make mana more important, so I think i'm going to go with that idea.

Also for the blade sentinel, I added counters to it, and if you drop 6 sentinels on a boss, they really go ape shit. It made Duriel spam those blue poprocks like you wouldn't believe. You are much safer microing 1 or 2 sentinels and using blade fury, but having more sentinels is super fun for trash.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:33 pm 
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I'm against changing the synergy's so soon after reset. Sure it may be bad for like 2 people but cmon we all have very limited time to play this having to restart is a hassle. ALSO are we sure this won't cause bad character data etc errors?

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:54 pm 

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I completely agree that you shouldn't be nerfing skills at all during this patch. Especially a nerf as drastic as completely removing a synergy, that invalidates entire characters and all the work people put into them.

There's always going to be the good and the bad builds/skills. I'm having a lot of fun with the game right now as it is and don't even think you need to change anything. We're not a giant community, if someone wants to have an easier time playing the game by picking a zeal pally and soloing bosses then let them. They're not making the game worse for other people who may want to try an oddball or less effective build.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:39 pm 
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Reset!!


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:50 pm 

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chaosofslayer wrote:
I completely agree that you shouldn't be nerfing skills at all during this patch. Especially a nerf as drastic as completely removing a synergy, that invalidates entire characters and all the work people put into them.

There's always going to be the good and the bad builds/skills. I'm having a lot of fun with the game right now as it is and don't even think you need to change anything. We're not a giant community, if someone wants to have an easier time playing the game by picking a zeal pally and soloing bosses then let them. They're not making the game worse for other people who may want to try an oddball or less effective build.


Unfortunately it does make the game worse, because even our most veteran players have told me, if you're going to melee, it's a waste of time to not be a zealer. For anyone who really does just want to solo and have it easier, they can download the full client, with plugy, and not update to 1.6b, and play SP. It will still be powerful, and now you have even more viable auras to choose from with it. Zeal Sanctuary or Zeal Salvation for example. I'm strongly considering making one of those two because it will be new, fun, and effective. Zeal Fan and Zeal Defiance are also very strong. The zeal change is just similar to how blizzard is no longer vastly superior to orb and meteor.

Also keep in mind this is the last update we will have for a loooong time, so any builds you make will be safe.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:23 pm 

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ensley you may want to upload the hotfix so people that want to test it out can do so before it goes live. also list the specific numbers if possible so people have an idea of whether or not a buffed skill is gonna be too strong or not.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:36 pm 

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Here is the patch if anyone wants to look at it in SP

https://dl.orangedox.com/xNYS2i9P00uYv2SUow


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:42 pm 
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Ensley03 wrote:
Here is the patch if anyone wants to look at it in SP

https://dl.orangedox.com/xNYS2i9P00uYv2SUow



Messing around on it now, have to edit my cube recipes.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:46 pm 
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Ensley03 wrote:
If having an OP build's damage normalized is "drastically altered" then I don't know what else to tell you. I assure you, Zeal is still functional.


Are you serious with this comment? Maybe you should go back and read wtf I actually wrote both here, and in response to your PM.

Last I checked, regarding balance specifically, I was saying DONT BUFF SALVATION. How the hell is this construed now as me wantonly choosing the flavor of the fucking week build, and then bitching that you are changing it?

Do you think I chose this after or before seeing any of this stuff on zeal all of a sudden being overpowered? You're posts to me are simply getting more and more laden with suggestive shit intertwined.

Reality check. Soloing normal difficulty, at least to Baal's minions is very likely doable by any build of consequence. Let's nerf them all then...or maybe...fix this glaring issues like the D fight, and a few others, and then revisit this discussion. Until then, I have little else to say, as it is obvious that once I don't cater to others, I am essentially told to stfu.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:59 pm 

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"So, there's an aura nobody has ever used in 4 years"
"Should we buff it a little then?"
"Nowai, OP."
"But you just said nobody uses it?"
"If you buff it, some guy will get it level 70 and then be wtfop"
"Does that mean it should just stay mediocre so nobody ever uses it?"
"It's not mediocre, it's great as it is"
"Then why does nobody ever use it?"
"...."


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:20 am 

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-Reduced Zeal damage and AR
-Slightly reduced Fanaticism damage and IAS bonuses
-Slightly reduced Holy Shield defense bonus

All these effect my build to the point where it may be redundant and I'm in Hell A3.

I'm geared very well with weapon like Ethereal Eternity Phase Blade and it takes a while for me to kill Leo. Lots of bosses hard to survive even with good life leach and life tap. I've seen other chars far stronger take down bosses much easier than myself.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:39 am 
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zealers have always been really awesome tanks and boss killers, but they had a weakness before which was physical immune. I have played much on 1.6 but I'm sure I could make a barb, jabber, druid, assassin melee phys that is just as faceroll. 75 physical res cap means don't need to party up or worry about my mercy dying, just hold down my mouse button with enough pots

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:03 am 
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The problem isn't that it's weak, the problem is that gear makes it a redundant aura to run because res/absorb is easy to get and it's better to use an offensive aura to increase kill speed instead. The stronger gear is, the less people need defensive skills like salvation. Remove absorb and half res from gear and salvation suddenly becomes much more attractive.

We found it extremely powerful when we played through with no gear/charms ;) .

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:05 am 
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Ensley03 wrote:
"So, there's an aura nobody has ever used in 4 years"
"Should we buff it a little then?"
"Nowai, OP."
"But you just said nobody uses it?"
"If you buff it, some guy will get it level 70 and then be wtfop"
"Does that mean it should just stay mediocre so nobody ever uses it?"
"It's not mediocre, it's great as it is"
"Then why does nobody ever use it?"
"...."


Ah Steel would like some words with you. He had a Healer who used Salv and pretty much would afk on Hell D and live.

ALSO can Explosive Arrow AOE get buffed slightly? Testing it's unbearable small.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:28 am 
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LockDown wrote:
Ah Steel would like some words with you. He had a Healer who used Salv and pretty much would afk on Hell D and live.


On HC we would almost always have a pally who would be 1 point all auras tank. Microing auras to cover res during LR, overwriting enemy conviction with our own, single res auras for stuff like ardual and offensive auras when we didn't need the extra defenses was a huge +. Having every aura on it's own hotkey and knowing when they are needed is a dying art it looks like. That's how HC would usually be in A5 hell first after a reset. Good defensive skill use can make or break a boss fight when your gear is ~20-30 levels below your level. Hell baal with orphans set, lvl 40 shield and shaftstop ftw.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:48 am 

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PureRage-DoD wrote:
The problem isn't that it's weak, the problem is that gear makes it a redundant aura to run because res/absorb is easy to get and it's better to use an offensive aura to increase kill speed instead. The stronger gear is, the less people need defensive skills like salvation. Remove absorb and half res from gear and salvation suddenly becomes much more attractive.

We found it extremely powerful when we played through with no gear/charms ;) .


good times!


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:49 am 

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LockDown wrote:
ALSO can Explosive Arrow AOE get buffed slightly? Testing it's unbearable small.


Test it with lvl 50 immo, 25% fire damage, and 25% fire pierce


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:55 am 
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Ensley03 wrote:
LockDown wrote:
ALSO can Explosive Arrow AOE get buffed slightly? Testing it's unbearable small.


Test it with lvl 50 immo, 25% fire damage, and 25% fire pierce



How does this make the boom bigger? Not the damage the damage is fine, the size of the explosion like give it some HGH.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:58 am 

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Oh the actual radius, well it would be op if it was much bigger considering how fast you can shoot and create more.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:09 am 

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Updated OP !


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:45 am 
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Ensley03 wrote:
Oh the actual radius, well it would be op if it was much bigger considering how fast you can shoot and create more.



Exploding Arrow is the middle synergy not Immolation Arrow.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:58 am 

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LOL. ok my bad. Yeah if people think it's bad it could get buffed some.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:07 am 

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Update for Druids also, listen in OP but I'll put it here too

-Added a physical damage bonus to Fire Claws and Frost Bite skills, and reduced the elemental damages. These skills are no longer useful late game and are the hangover of when Oak Sage used to give Druids 30k HP. Without that massive HP pool or rejuv pots, using an ele attack in melee is terrible due to poor leech, and makes it nearly impossible to survive. Adding a physical bonus will help contribute to leech, while still being attacks that primarily add ele damage


I've tested this from skill level 20-55 and the damage seems to scale very well in terms of balance

Here's the new data folder if anyone wants to test it, along with seeing the new melee skill changes

https://dl.orangedox.com/R1KwWOx2jcNjg6ku3o


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:17 am 
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Ensley03 wrote:
LOL. ok my bad. Yeah if people think it's bad it could get buffed some.


Yeah explosion range is garbo 15% or so would be nice.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:24 am 

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LockDown wrote:
Ensley03 wrote:
LOL. ok my bad. Yeah if people think it's bad it could get buffed some.


Yeah explosion range is garbo 15% or so would be nice.


The radius is 3...upping it 1 more would give it the same radius as Fireball.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:12 am 
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LockDown wrote:
Ah Steel would like some words with you. He had a Healer who used Salv and pretty much would afk on Hell D and live.

ALSO can Explosive Arrow AOE get buffed slightly? Testing it's unbearable small.

Good times, yeah absorption from salvation was almost OP with right gear. But isn't that so with everything?
Besides, it was due to whole prayer aura stack thing, it was better to run a salvation rather than a 4th instance of prayer.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:27 am 
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I'm really glad to see such good feedback from mods and players regarding the game. If only real D2 were this way!! Well vanilla D2 sucks anyway...

I know nobody will like this, but with all the balance changes, I wouldn't mind a reset! set everyone back to sq 1, nice and even.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:25 pm 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
zealers have always been really awesome tanks and boss killers, but they had a weakness before which was physical immune. I have played much on 1.6 but I'm sure I could make a barb, jabber, druid, assassin melee phys that is just as faceroll. 75 physical res cap means don't need to party up or worry about my mercy dying, just hold down my mouse button with enough pots


Good luck getting 75% dr though. with max res.

People say it like its easy. Like you roll into hell wearing perfect gear or something lol

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:59 pm 

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Kye7 wrote:
I'm really glad to see such good feedback from mods and players regarding the game. If only real D2 were this way!! Well vanilla D2 sucks anyway...

I know nobody will like this, but with all the balance changes, I wouldn't mind a reset! set everyone back to sq 1, nice and even.


Resets don't bother me, but a lot of people would quit, so that's not a good idea right now.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:01 pm 

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Ensley03 wrote:
Kye7 wrote:
I'm really glad to see such good feedback from mods and players regarding the game. If only real D2 were this way!! Well vanilla D2 sucks anyway...

I know nobody will like this, but with all the balance changes, I wouldn't mind a reset! set everyone back to sq 1, nice and even.


Resets don't bother me, but a lot of people would quit, so that's not a good idea right now.


A lot would. People were mad about last one.

Changes seem good.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:29 pm 
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State of patch after some play testing.

Immo damage is fine with the buff, it won't survive the counters from a boss anyway. It's many counters.

Melee no reason to play anything except Sin for free Claw Block or Pally for free Max Block. Maybe Druid for Bear and 10% DR Melee Barb? Shit comparatively no real defensive skills since BO got neutered and Increased Stamina got taken away if melee Barbs are going to be a thing they need help. The damage buffs are nice but they don't lack in damage melee mastery is tons of damage they just can't survive like Pallys and Sins can.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:39 pm 

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Well claw block was put in the trash can in 1.5 with a 50% cap, and it's not exactly free to get to either.

Druids will be better with the new lycan, more wolf/bear HP, more damage, and hotw or sob

Barbs got BO buffed and more damage and have nat res/iron skin. The only struggle is getting max block with high FBR and high FHR, but if you do that, you can be pretty damn good. Also remember barbs get the most base hp

I would say Barb is the most gear-dependent, followed by Druid, then Sin, then Pally, for tanking, but eventually they can all be very good. Keep in mind how powerful rares and crafts can be, along with some of the new/improved sets and uniques. I'm comfortable with how all the tanks look right now.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:13 pm 
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Cory wrote:
Mrawskrad wrote:
zealers have always been really awesome tanks and boss killers, but they had a weakness before which was physical immune. I have played much on 1.6 but I'm sure I could make a barb, jabber, druid, assassin melee phys that is just as faceroll. 75 physical res cap means don't need to party up or worry about my mercy dying, just hold down my mouse button with enough pots


Good luck getting 75% dr though. with max res.

People say it like its easy. Like you roll into hell wearing perfect gear or something lol


I'm talking about the monster res cap. No immunes/high res monsters = faceroll

Also about non paladins and assassins lacking block skills...items offer so much +block, FBR and dex its stupidly easy to get max block and very high FBR with almost no effort.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:19 pm 

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At level 90+, it requires such a ridiculous amount of block+dex to get high block. It's pretty easy at lower levels, I'll admit, but it just rapes you more and more the higher you get.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:05 pm 
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at lvl 99 with a base 40% block chance shield with an addtional +60% block chance (so like a spiritward with 1 uber ame) it only requires 164 dex to get max block.

That's really not much considering how much dex you can get from gear.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:17 pm 
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The things with short interval resets are basically twofold.
1) not everyone even got to play all the way through (most? of us aren't all that young anymore are we?).
2) Duff's time is equal to 'Jonathan time' for us (PoE reference...haha funnyfunny). You only ask for this when you really need it, and you better not need it often. This is a very large task for him to do.

This is most of the reason why I am just pushing for an actual hotfix (fixing broken stuff, and correct patticake fights).

Personally, I really do not want a reset because I fall into category 1.

Balance just takes awhile to 1)do what you actually want, and 2) survive asshats like me asking 'what for', don't you know about xyz? from 50 years ago? Pfft. :) 3) changing synergies will literally break a character's skill tree (iirc) It will result in 20 points spent, but literally no return, and you can't get those points back (i don't mean the points are now 'bad' choices, it's nonfunctional). I may wrong on this instance, but there are changes that make this occur. This means that with some of the changes, a reset would be required. The breaking of skilltrees will cause at least a small riot, rightly or wrongly.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:36 pm 

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A reset is never really required unless you are doing an item overhaul or adding actual game content.

If there's 1 poor bastard who actually made a frost bite druid before these notes, I said I will level with him and be his bitch for a week. :D Though honestly, having points invested in cyclone armor isn't exactly a bad thing anyway...


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:15 am 

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Poison zon needs to be fixed.

With max synergies and level 33 plague jav shes doing 9,000 damage. Looks like its possible to get up to level 70 plague javs which should do around 35,000 dmg. Will do some testing on solo. Also keep in mind thats 35,000 over 4 seconds. Comes out to 8,750 a second with perfect gear. A character like fury druid hits 6 times in a second and I seen one with 35,000 damage without great gear. 35,000 x 6 hits a second is 210,000 damage per second vs a poison zon 8,750. And this isnt include enemy poison resist or poison length reduction.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:23 am 
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Ensley03 wrote:
A reset is never really required unless you are doing an item overhaul or adding actual game content.

If there's 1 poor bastard who actually made a frost bite druid before these notes, I said I will level with him and be his bitch for a week. :D Though honestly, having points invested in cyclone armor isn't exactly a bad thing anyway...


You're overhauling runes and gems though. I just don't want character to get broken i.e. Bad Character Data.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:29 am 

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gems and runes don't spawn legacy (unless d2gs is really shitty, cuz they don't do it in SP) so it shouldn't be an issue at all, and skill changes don't break character data either.

Things like changes to on-equip auras and oskill item changes do break data.

Cory - +63 skills with +50% poison damage,

poison javelin adds 106k psn dmg over 2.3 sec
disease spray creates a cloud of 71k over 2.3 sec
plague javelin throws a jav that makes a cloud for 39k over 4 sec

You might be able to get more poison damage and a few more skill levels than this too, and it looks like it really geeks out at level 71, the durations of the first 2 get reduced to 1.4 sec. So basically you beat the game if you get level 71 disease spray.

That being said, Plague Javelin does need a bit of love.

The duration geek outs break the damage also, so I'm gonna fix this.


Last edited by Ensley03 on Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:59 am 

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In reply to earlier post. I tested damage with hero editor. With 100% PERFECT gear you can reach level 69 plague javelins and with an additional 50% poison damage it comes to 42,000 damage over 4 seconds. That's 10,500 damage a second.

Posion javelin (now a melee based attack without range) at level 69 does 101,000 damage over 1.7 seconds. It's confusing because after a certain point the damage actually starts going DOWN but duration does as well. Kinda confusing.

I'd strongly suggest reverting poison skills to 1.3. Poison zons CAN be strong (I had one of best on HU). They must be geared well and still they don't survive that well. I could solo some bosses but I couldnt kill ANY act bosses. I had 240,000 plague javs then.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:02 am 
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But the runeword data is wrong if you made it. This can cause crashes if it doesn't spawn is 'ith'. Bad things happen on servers. Testing in sp actually is not enough. Servers are not going to like now 'faked' items. Unless you are absolutely positive about runewords, then do not change ones that already exist without a reset. New ones should be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:03 am 

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Ensley03 wrote:
gems and runes don't spawn legacy (unless d2gs is really shitty, cuz they don't do it in SP) so it shouldn't be an issue at all, and skill changes don't break character data either.

Things like changes to on-equip auras and oskill item changes do break data.

Cory - +63 skills with +50% poison damage,

poison javelin adds 106k psn dmg over 2.3 sec
disease spray creates a cloud of 71k over 2.3 sec
plague javelin throws a jav that makes a cloud for 39k over 4 sec

You might be able to get more poison damage and a few more skill levels than this too, and it looks like it really geeks out at level 71, the durations of the first 2 get reduced to 1.4 sec. So basically you beat the game if you get level 71 disease spray.

That being said, Plague Javelin does need a bit of love.


Poison javelin no range though. And with enemy poison res, and reduce poison length like act bosses (6 seconds use to stay on them for 1-2). It's a very weak char it looks like.

Your welcome to generate perfect gear and try one on single player and see how well you will do. Keep in mind you don't get handed perfect faceted gear as you enter hell. Takes months of farming.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:15 am 

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Kramuti - if changing the runes can break it, then anyone who has Memory or Infinity needs to throw it away before 1.6b goes up and just wait to make new ones. No other recipes were changed, just some stats, which will leave the old ones as legacies, but they are all worse (less def and DR mostly) so that won't hurt the game.

Cory - new poison changes:
Durations are all fixed amounts
slvl 69, +50% poison dmg -

Poison Javelin - 193k / 3s
Disease spray - 130k / 3s
Plague Javelin - 177k / 5s

Damage will obviously go up if you can manage above 50% poison damage, which with bramble/facets/etc may be doable


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:26 am 

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Here is the link for the new data if anyone wants to check that poison or anything else

https://dl.orangedox.com/R1KwWOx2jcNjg6ku3o/data.rar

Has anyone else discovered any shit builds, or can we move on with 1.6b??? :D


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:44 am 
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Ensley03 wrote:
Here is the link for the new data if anyone wants to check that poison or anything else

https://dl.orangedox.com/R1KwWOx2jcNjg6ku3o/data.rar

Has anyone else discovered any shit builds, or can we move on with 1.6b??? :D



Everything is pretty shit on boss with all the counters in all honesty. Proc rate way higher than it use to be.

I did check out the lower proc rate on FO, still got obliterated with counters. I wouldn't want anyone to tank for me with that, skill may cause less but boss counters are way up.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:49 am 

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I don't know if mraw upped counters or reduced delays. Orb seemed less bad when I tried it. Maybe it depends on the boss? I was using duriel. Did u have a merc?


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:14 am 

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Haven't checked damage yet. How was it?

Poison Javelins use to do around 160k and Plague Javs 240k. You couldn't "solo" any act boss. Thats with perfect end game gear (tstrokes 3x uber emeralds, templars 4x psn facets, griffs 3x psn facets, hhg 3x skulls, arachnid belt (gave -10 psn pierce then too), crafted +1 all skill +3 jav gloves, maras, crafted rings, and +1 all skill crafted boots)

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:14 am 
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Ensley03 wrote:
I don't know if mraw upped counters or reduced delays. Orb seemed less bad when I tried it. Maybe it depends on the boss? I was using duriel. Did u have a merc?



No merc I always test on Andy Meph Chaos Sanc

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:17 am 
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http://s198.photobucket.com/user/LockDown_06/media/Screenshot005-11.jpg.html
Yeah man poison zons weren't OP.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:32 am 

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^^ Not Hell Unleashed but nice 1.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:37 am 
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Cory wrote:
^^ Not Hell Unleashed but nice 1.



viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3591&hilit=character+screenshots&start=160

Heres the s/s thread.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:53 am 

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LockDown wrote:
Cory wrote:
^^ Not Hell Unleashed but nice 1.



viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3591&hilit=character+screenshots&start=160

Heres the s/s thread.


Must have missed this item on HU then. Was next to it in your photo bucket.

http://s198.photobucket.com/user/LockDo ... 6.jpg.html

http://s198.photobucket.com/user/LockDo ... 9.jpg.html

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:56 am 
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Cory, that Amazon is from hu. Are you drunk?

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:02 am 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
Cory, that Amazon is from hu. Are you drunk?


240,000 was max I had. Perfect gear. Listed it before. Survivability wasn't good with dmg gear too. I had other gear to survive better which averaged around 210,000 damage.

Unless that was when skillers were around. Which were gone in 2009 or 2010 i believe.

His other screenshots with that one say "Welcome to Realm Venom Season 2".

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:05 am 
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Cory wrote:
Mrawskrad wrote:
Cory, that Amazon is from hu. Are you drunk?


240,000 was max I had. Perfect gear. Listed it before. Survivability wasn't good with dmg gear too. I had other gear to survive better which averaged around 210,000 damage.

Unless that was when skillers were around. Which were gone in 2009 or 2010 i believe.

His other screenshots with that one say "Welcome to Realm Venom Season 2".



Realm Venom was the mod I played before HU, that screenshot is from HU. It's also no skillers. It's an example of why poison needs to be tweaked carefully.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:07 am 

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LockDown wrote:
Cory wrote:
Mrawskrad wrote:
Cory, that Amazon is from hu. Are you drunk?


240,000 was max I had. Perfect gear. Listed it before. Survivability wasn't good with dmg gear too. I had other gear to survive better which averaged around 210,000 damage.

Unless that was when skillers were around. Which were gone in 2009 or 2010 i believe.

His other screenshots with that one say "Welcome to Realm Venom Season 2".



Realm Venom was the mod I played before HU, that screenshot is from HU. It's also no skillers. It's an example of why poison needs to be tweaked carefully.


List gear I listed mine.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:12 am 
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Cory wrote:

List gear I listed mine.


From that long ago? lol. Don't be so angry, its from HU it's just to show why you can't buff poison skills a ton without a lot of testing.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:26 am 
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Man everyone had over 400k dmg psn amazons when they were at their strongest. I forget what patch but it was after skillers were removed. Maybe you didn't play that patch or forgot.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:49 am 

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Here is a question. Has anybody seen exceptional/Elite assassin claws with any +to X skill.
Here is the claws I believe might be bugged. If you find any of those with + skills, please screenshot it.

Greater Claws, Greater Talons, Scissors Quhab, Suwayyah, Wrist Sword, War Fist, Battle Cestus, Feral Claws, Runic Talons and Scissors Suwayyah.

Attempting to gamble the exceptional ones repeatedly resulted in no + to X skills but that might just be RNG.
This is an old issue that hurts any non physical sin build. If its still present, it really needs to be fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:17 am 
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Riem821 wrote:
Here is a question. Has anybody seen exceptional/Elite assassin claws with any +to X skill.
Here is the claws I believe might be bugged. If you find any of those with + skills, please screenshot it.

Greater Claws, Greater Talons, Scissors Quhab, Suwayyah, Wrist Sword, War Fist, Battle Cestus, Feral Claws, Runic Talons and Scissors Suwayyah.

Attempting to gamble the exceptional ones repeatedly resulted in no + to X skills but that might just be RNG.
This is an old issue that hurts any non physical sin build. If its still present, it really needs to be fixed.



Haven't seen one been picking up whites all through nightmare and hell.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:43 am 

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That is a puzzling issue...I do see that their magic level is not listed from vendors from Greater Claws and beyond...but I don't think that affects the drops? Have to get purerage, mraw, or brevan to figure that one out.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:55 am 
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I forgot which txt file it's under. I'm not at my pc now. The column is staffmods iirc. Maybe itemtypes.txt

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:59 am 

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Yeah I saw those, but they are listed. It also says the rarity is 2, the others have a rarity of 1, but I assume that just means it's more likely to spawn mods.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:09 am 
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Listed damage on poison skills is not really relevant across patches as durations have changed a lot over the years. Poison durations were nerfed so poison builds couldn't just tap a boss once every 10 sec and kite the rest. It resulted in same DPS but more danger, the dps was brought down later. The only poison skill whos duration has remained consistent from patch to patch is venom.

As far as the poison VS melee damage thing goes, poison res can be reduced into negatives, physical resist stays pretty much static. Melee trigger 10-15x as many counters as a poison build (excluding venomsin) and have fewer options for AoE. So poison dps should be much lower than phys melee dps. I also don't get why a ranged AoE poison skills DPS is being compared to a melee skills and why both are being compared on single targets.

Example:
10k dps poison (an AoE skill, so designed to hit 5+ mobs at a time) with 4 second duration and 100% pierce vs a 75% all resistance enemy. Total damage = dps*duration*resistance = 10k*4*1.25 = 50k damage over 4 seconds to a single target, possibly causing 1 counter.

40k listed damage fury druid at 6 attacks/sec vs a 75% all resistance enemy. Total damage = damage*attacks per second*duration (see note below)*resistance = 40k*6*4*0.25 = 240k damage over 4 seconds, triggering up to 24 counters.
The above is also dependent on hit rate, so at 95% chance to hit comes out to 228k (single target, if 2 targets then DPS on 1 mob drops by 50%) damage triggering up to 23 counters.

So around 4.5x more damage from the melee on a single target vs the AoE ranged poison skill, but you trigger 20* as many counters. I'm not really seeing the problem here. If you have 2 targets, the total damage dealt becomes almost the same. At 3 targets, the total damage dealt by the poison skill is way way higher than the melee vs 3 targets and at much lower risk. :?
You really need to look at all the angles and take everything into consideration before coming to a conclusion.

Note: Matching the duration of the poison above, but the poison will last longer as you pierce enemy PLR by 100% into negatives giving higher duration than listed. Difficulty also increases pois duration but w/e, we say 4 sec, the duration is only relevant to how many counters you produce, not the DPS.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:57 am 

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I know poison does get some real benefits over melee. Hopefully Cory and others see that now too. The damage was really overnerfed, though. With basically godmode gear (slvl 69 and +50% poison dmg) Plague Javelin currently does 42k over 4 sec. That's pretty useless no matter how you slice it. 1.6b has it adjusted to be 177k over 5 sec. I think that's fair, as it would take ages just to get that kind of gear (crafted +1 gloves with +4 jav, +7 skill javs, etc) and have any decent resists to not get 1 shot raped. This also doesn't include pierce, which you'd really only be getting from the Uber emeralds and facets if you go this route

I also told him we have to take into account that we don't want some crazy bastard running with conv/LR bots for his poison jav and just annihilating everything.

I figure the most damage you can effectively add to poison is +84% (40% Bramble, 14%+10%[facets] Griffons, and 20% [facets] shield. Trang gloves could add 10% but then you lose the +5 skill so that's probably not worth it, so it's safe to say the absolute full glass cannon plague javelin achievable might be 200k / 5s

The melee attack poison javelin COULD do very high damage (maybe about 225k / 3s) but the odds are you would just die instantly.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:14 am 
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Slvl 69.....sounds so ridiculous. QQ what's next slvl 99 in 1.7?

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:17 am 

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People have been able to get level 60+ skills for ages due to all the crazy charms...I would get rid of shards if I had my way but everyone would bitch.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:40 am 
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Before a pally could get 61 bhammer unless I counted wrong. And that's at the higher end of skills since dscale and +8 bh on weapon What is possible now?

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:58 am 

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HMMM I'm really tired but

+7 jav javs
+2 armor
+4 ammy
+1 all +4 jav crafted gloves
+2 belt
+4 circlet
+2 rings
+2 shield (bad option)
+1 boots (not usually a good option either)

so that's 30, then charms is 11? BC can add 1... that's +42, what am I missing...anyway time for bed.

I know furycury had lvl 60 or 61 freezing arrow a long time ago too, don't remember how


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:43 pm 

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And now I remember why I never used the level 50 claw runeword, it was because of the lack of + skills on claws.

It would appears that hand scythes can't spawn with + to X skill either, at least when bought from vendors.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:43 pm 

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Pious wrote:
PureRage-DoD wrote:
The problem isn't that it's weak, the problem is that gear makes it a redundant aura to run because res/absorb is easy to get and it's better to use an offensive aura to increase kill speed instead. The stronger gear is, the less people need defensive skills like salvation. Remove absorb and half res from gear and salvation suddenly becomes much more attractive.

We found it extremely powerful when we played through with no gear/charms ;) .


good times!


Can we do this again? That was so much fun.

Salvation was always a good aura, nobody used it for a long time when the synergies were res fire/cold/light - dumping 60 points to pump up one aura basically relegated the character to support only.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:25 pm 

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After epic derails - are there anymore bugs? :P


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:26 pm 

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When was the last time dragon talon was viable?
The high hit count and low damage makes it difficult to not get overwhelmed with counters.

Does it still crash the game on Duriel?


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:06 pm 

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Updated OP to properly reflect all changes!

Riem, no idea about the crash, and I've seen people make DT Sins just this season. It can be abused pretty well by stacking cb/ds/ele and getting incredibly fast hits, though indeed the counters are real. This skill would require a lot of thought to change properly and not make it massively OP.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:30 pm 
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ETA on bad character data?

Also you give us a big list with really vague fucking details which is aggravating. How much is enchant nerfed? How much is firewall buffed? I feel like I'm pulling teeth to get information about this patch from a number standpoint.

Which summons are nerfed?
What skills cost more mana?

The list of questions from this "master change log" leaves me with many more questions than answers.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:53 pm 

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1. Anyone can download the data folder and check the numbers. In fact, only 3 people have, which leaves no room for anyone to complain anyways except those 3

2. I use the terms "slightly increased" "increased" and "greatly increased" consistently. Let's pretend it's a spectrum of 5-15%, 20-35%, and 40%+

3. Summons means...all summons...

4. Mana costs I can sort of understand. Basically the premise is, high level spells increase much more, such as blizzard, meteor, hurricane, etc have a cost that goes up 3-4 per level rather than 0 or 1. Spam skills (fireball, guided arrow), curses, etc are increased by lesser amounts. Melee skills increase per level except generally each class with melee has at least 1 skill that is always really cheap (sacrifice, jab, berserk, tigerstrike, druids being the only exception, but Feral Rage is pretty cheap).
The higher skills (Fury, Fend, Frenzy, all of the Fs?) have higher base and/or growth costs. This is intended to make energy/regen not completely worthless, particularly in the lower levels where the game tends to be easier.

I don't give exact numbers on skills because I don't know what it is. If the skill damage tier lists 10 2 5 7 9 12 15 and I change it to 12 3 6 8 10 13 17, do you really want me to use a calculator, or is it safe to say "slightly increased"? Would 15% make you that much happier? :P I then check it in game to ensure it is, in fact, a slight increase.

Things that really matter, like hard point changes, are listed.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:30 am 
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Any news on when we can expect the update? Glad to see you working so hard! We (the community) really appreciate everything you do to help. You are dedicated to helping a small population of players, and that is admirable.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:23 am 

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Thanks :D Update is up to Duff. If people post or make a poll that they want it, it's more likely he will do it. I told him it's ready.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:18 am 

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Should I assume claws have been fixed?

As for Dragon talon, right now at the same level, Dtalon does about 10 times less damage than Dtail, compensated by the number of kicks.

Dtalon takes significantly longer to deal that damage than Dtail, causes a massive amount of counters and if one hit misses, all of them misses, and you're stuck unable to leech or defend yourself until the kicks are over.

As a stand-alone skill it probably works right now, more or less, but as a release skill (for charge-ups), it fails miserably due to the high amount of kicks.

Aside from the normal attacks, there are no one-claw release skill.
The problem is how difficult it is to tank bosses in melee range without lifesteal.
If I want to do actual physical damage to lifesteal off, I need two claws. If I go with two claws, I have to go with Clawblock. If I go with clawblock, I get stunlocked all day long against trash mobs and I lose the precious defense, damage reduction and absorb that comes from having a shield.

Dtail doesn't do enough physical damage to keep my health up with lifesteal, and Dtalon is mostly suicide due to 8-10 kicks worth of counters, on top of the 4-6 from Charge-ups.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:30 am 

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Not sure if anyone here knows (or is willing to figure out) how to fix the base claws, I wish I could, mate. In itemtypes.txt, it has staffmods for things like claws, orbs, zon bows, nec heads, etc. It says "ass" under "staffmods" on the assassin and h2h2 lines. That is the equivalent of 1+1=2 but it's telling us 2 is the wrong answer.

As far as talon, have you ever tried stacked ele talon? I'm not sure how it holds up late in NM/Hell, but I saw bosses get their shit kicked in (literally) a couple years back, I think it was 1.4. The guy literally was just holding down right click to kick everything because it was better than charge up effects. This was in NM.

I feel you on the lifesteal, which is why I added a physical bonus to fireclaws/frostbite. You have to remember this is a hard game for every class at times. A WW barb can't just WW back and forth through bosses in Hell or he's gonna get shrekt. Does that mean WW is bad? I think it just means WW isn't great for fighting bosses, but that's why they get Bash/LA.

Tiger strike and claw mastery are getting small buffs, and that is intended to help with those leech issues on bosses. If you aren't using clawblock, you need to really stack MDR, or you will get face fucked by bosses regardless of Dtalon or not.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:42 am 
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Ensley03 wrote:
1. Anyone can download the data folder and check the numbers. In fact, only 3 people have, which leaves no room for anyone to complain anyways except those 3




Oh man good thing I'm one of those 3.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:04 pm 
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There are still some things that need fixed.
Like merc being able to pretty easily tank Tobial in NM. Rock storms just don't hit him all that often. Is a bit more dangerous to stand in it oneself.

Also, if you still have runewords changed, you will likely break a character. Not nearly everyone reads the forums. A single broken character means that even rollbacks will not work. It will make duff have to straightup delete a character from his side.

Changing synergies will break a character tree. I don't care if you will level them or not. Just don't. Please.

As Lockdown has noted, there need more of the fine details listed (and compiled from the rest of the thread). Putting it on others to test when (at least me) are sill progressing in the current patch is simply not proper. It is fine (and best to test), but pushing it in this way is just asking for something to go awry.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:51 pm 

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Fixed Assassin claws! =O

Thanks Brevan :P

Kramuti - duff has the final update with this assassin issue solved. I'm not bothered by merc damage vs tobial in NM. PureRage can handle that in 1.7


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:48 pm 

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Ensley03 wrote:
Fixed Assassin claws! =O

Thanks Brevan :P

Kramuti - duff has the final update with this assassin issue solved. I'm not bothered by merc damage vs tobial in NM. PureRage can handle that in 1.7


Hallelujah brother! So glad this issue is finally fixed for good.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:40 am 
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Latest 1.6b patch is now live. Feel free to bitch Ensley if anything goes wrong :)


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:54 am 

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DuFFBeeR wrote:
Latest 1.6b patch is now live. Feel free to bitch Ensley if anything goes wrong :)


Love love love


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:56 am 

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so far so good. i'm liking a lot of these changes!


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:04 am 
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craft level outputs have different clvls than previous.
can't post a screen at the moment, just be aware. what were about lvl 55 are now lvl 94.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:05 am 

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Yeah that was to be expected. I just tried to make sure we don't get lvl 101 gear again, which I'm not positive, but hopefully won't happen


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:10 am 
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I sure as hell didn't expect it. It's not a huge deal, but it's not trivial either.
I see nothing in the changelog, and 101 is attainable.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:16 am 

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Another note, make sure you delete any data folder you had from testing, and you only have 1 patch_d2, the newest one, in your hu folder.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:41 am 
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I was looking at these gloves, and am just curious which mods were actually changed? (maybe this was in your *changed rares* etc part of the log. gloves are
25 ias,
5% CB,
10FBR (from craft),
27 cold res (all from the craft alone i think)
4coldabsorb (from craft).
6/4 PDR/MDR (all from craft),
39GF.

I imagine it's either ias or more likely CB.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:45 am 

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That was a couple weeks ago...but I believe the level requirement for CB went up, and it likely geeked out your gloves. My crafted belt went to level 92 so I just sold it.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:52 am 
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So, when is CB available? only level 90ish+ or mid 80s on rares? I don't need exact, just would like to know when to try crafting ias+cb gloves again.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:26 am 
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Half of my charms went up in level requirement, sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Also we have Level 101 Req gear.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:02 am 

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CB on gloves is lvl 75, IAS is lvl 35

LockDown - for old items you had that's possible. It should be really unlikely for new crafted items, and can't happen for rares.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:38 am 
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Try to avoid changing affix stuff mid ladder as the affixes ID line data is saved to items along with the stats, not just the stats the affix contains. Also remember crafts have a hardcoded level req penalty depending on the number of affixes they roll. That is added on after the level req of the affixes themselves and any additional level req from cubemain.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:17 am 
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Fire Mastery Change Lost About 6k Hydra Damage.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:13 am 

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Lost about 25k tk damage and 2k cb damage. Pretty much halved my damage.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:21 am 
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Is reduce curse duration suppose to spawn on charms?

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:30 am 

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Lightning damage was buffed a lot by the focus mastery so it got hit the most. Keep in mind though this is the same exact mastery we had in 1.5a, and many skills actually do more damage now, like CB/TK. So it's a nerf of a buff, really.

And yeah, exorcism suffix spawns on charms/ammys/helms/rings


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:32 am 
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Didn't know life changing.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:41 am 
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5-6 curse res on shields, circlets, amulets, rings
5-6 grand charms
3-4 large charms
1-2 small charms.

It is a suffix only.
edit. fixed largecharm value

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:42 am 

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It's generally not very good since the numbers are so low, but if you build for it and stack them it would be good.

Edit - rekt


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:08 pm 

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The summon nerf was necessary but I think it missed the mark again.
My druid's summons die way too fast now.
Even badly geared a3 fire merc is tankier than the lvl49 grizzly with supposed 60k life.
I see no reason for anyone to play a summon druid anymore.
Guess it's time to go back to the cookie-cutter-builds. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:40 pm 
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Minu566 wrote:
The summon nerf was necessary but I think it missed the mark again.
My druid's summons die way too fast now.
Even badly geared a3 fire merc is tankier than the lvl49 grizzly with supposed 60k life.
I see no reason for anyone to play a summon druid anymore.
Guess it's time to go back to the cookie-cutter-builds. :roll:


Valk went from 6.4k HP to 3.6k can't even tank a Zombie in hell. Skeletons have block so melee can't touch them, why nerf valk she couldn't even take one hit from anything without dying. No seriously, poison creeper tanks better than valk.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:58 pm 
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ye the summon nerf was way over the top , sure they were too beefy , but cant there be no middleground cmon.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:24 pm 

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So the patch that was meant to scale back zealadins completely obliterated every other build?


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:39 pm 
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Nah Fury is in a good place, one of the biggest weakness of Fury is the lack of res so free 25 res for 1 pt is sweet.

Immo would be in a good place if counters didn't exist.

Summoners buff.

Barb kinda decent?

Bladesin apparently fun.

Any Sorc build? Lost tons of dmg because they had everything else going for em besides that.

Anything that uses summons except necro? Fuck your summons, they can't tank anything.

Oh you're build revolved around runes? Hope you had Uber gems to spare to replace em for the stats.

Long story short some good things did come from this, but a bunch more stuff got put into a sorta shit place.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:11 pm 

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What irritates be beyond belief is how nothing was discussed properly beforehand and also how nothing was scaled back appropriately, there was sweeping build destroying changes in the middle of people playing.

Was the bear too strong? Probably, but instead of having it go from 22k hp at level 20 to 8.7k hp how about slightly reducing it to 18k so it can't face tank bosses but still doesn't die in 3 hits to trash.

Or if you thought Io was too strong at 40 vit and 100 life, why not scale it back to 30 vit and 100 life so it's still useful but it doesn't just give as an insane amount of hp for one socket.

It's not so much where the nerfs and buffs were targeted it's how unnecessarily drastic they were. If we were gong from 1.6 to 1.7 it's a different story because then at least everyone knows where builds stand going into the reset but we're in the middle of the patch. Hotfixes are meant to fix glaring errors (i.e. the invincible Act 1 mercs) or outrageously overpowered builds. Nerfing something like Frost Bite just brought from bad to unplayable. Nerfing the bear into worthlessness just made every Druid feel like they wasted 20 points in it.

There should have been more communication before this patch went live. This really feels like it's one step forward and two steps back when it had the potential to simply be the patch we use for the rest of the life of 1.6.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:16 pm 

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Whatever you did to the leachability for bosses just completely ruined melee builds. There's no reason that a char doing 10k melee with 30% leach can't get any life back what-so-ever on bosses. There's no way to make a melee character able to survive unless they're just pot whoring away. Makes it kind of pointless I think. Perhaps you (ensley) should post what bosses are leachable still, and what you did exactly to make leach useless on bosses?


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:39 pm 

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hmm seems like the pendulum swung too far from one direction to another on many of these changes.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:51 pm 
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Nova wrote:
Whatever you did to the leachability for bosses just completely ruined melee builds. There's no reason that a char doing 10k melee with 30% leach can't get any life back what-so-ever on bosses. There's no way to make a melee character able to survive unless they're just pot whoring away. Makes it kind of pointless I think. Perhaps you (ensley) should post what bosses are leachable still, and what you did exactly to make leach useless on bosses?


He answered this on page 2 or 3 I believe because I had the same concern.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:47 pm 

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Nova wrote:
Whatever you did to the leachability for bosses just completely ruined melee builds. There's no reason that a char doing 10k melee with 30% leach can't get any life back what-so-ever on bosses. There's no way to make a melee character able to survive unless they're just pot whoring away. Makes it kind of pointless I think.


^ seconded

I can't solo kill diablo on normal with lvl 71 druid max IAS breakpoint fury + feral + 30% leech with 230+ AR. Even if i have minimal mdr and dr it's still ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:22 pm 
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ferologics wrote:
^ seconded

I can't solo kill diablo on normal with lvl 71 druid max IAS breakpoint fury + feral + 30% leech with 230+ AR. Even if i have minimal mdr and dr it's still ridiculous.

Just roll something else; no one cares about phys chars here. Don't whine but suggest more pierce on ele gear.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:31 pm 

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Steel wrote:
Just roll something else; no one cares about phys chars here. Don't whine but suggest more pierce on ele gear.


Some people don't have the time to invest another 20-30 hours into a character ESPECIALLY after there was a reset already this patch.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:44 pm 
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I have a feeling there will be an update or revert, because these changes are causing so many issues

a good idea would be to try out a couple chars if your current is unplayable, to find other current glaring problems.


Steel wrote:
Just roll something else; no one cares about phys chars here. Don't whine but suggest more pierce on ele gear.


Phys classes have always had it quite nicely throughout the last few years. I do understand the changes are a bit too much, but i think nearly all classes are unable to kill bosses now

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:45 pm 

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The only monsters at all that can't be drained (leeched) are radament, dragonhand, moloch, akhmel, and worldstone golems. All act bosses have 25/20/15 drain value, which means in normal, you get 25% of your total leech number effective against him, 20(-half, so 10%) in NM, and 15(-3/4, so 4%) in hell. If you have 35% LL, that means you really have 17%/8%/2% in norm/nm/hell. This is actually not much less than it used to be before 1.6. All other bosses have equal or higher drain than this as well. If you have 5% leech and no MDR/DR, you are going to have a really bad day against bosses as melee.

There is enough gear in the game now to stack resists, absorb%, DR%, mdr/dr to fight these bosses. You just simply cannot hold down left click with zeal and expect to beat the game anymore. This patch now requires true extensive farming, crafting, and leveling, and I assure you all of it will be beaten.

People were soloing Samhain before, who has 0 drain value, in previous patches with worse gear. I guess the value of Draculs and Necros for lifetap just went up. :P Barbs and Pallys get extra LL from Blessed aim/Blood Bath, Druids get Feral Rage to micro with Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:29 pm 

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I don't understand why you changed the sorc masteries.
What was wrong with just leaving it the way it was? I was leveling a sorc to skill dual elements. Some of the changes seems so random.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:12 pm 

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Ensley you're completely ignoring every other thing that has been brought up in this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:08 am 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVZH9xSyG9s


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:28 pm 

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oskill fire mastery is back...


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:43 pm 
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Pious wrote:
oskill fire mastery is back...


THE SECOND COMING.

Pious is nice, I wasn't gonna say shit.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:21 pm 
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lawl

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:15 am 
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oskill on fire mastery is on the trang oul armor? or which items? this is something can break the game completely . ie firedruids in older versions but allmost all builds gets too much dmg that way.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:31 am 
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time to make a fire char. HERE WE GO BOYS

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:32 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
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Yeah that shouldn't have happened. It was supposed to be on the shield (which only Necros can use). Nothing we can do about it now until the next reset. Updating it would risk bad character data and would still leave legacy versions unless everyone threw theirs away on the honor system, lol.

I don't see it being much use outside of an Fclaw Druid really, and that still probably wouldn't make Fclaw as good as Fury. Trap sins would be better at clearing trash, that's about it. The inferno sentry would do mega damage to bosses but the counters are just abysmal. Immo zon would become a bit more viable, still won't be OP. Then what, holy fire pally? :P


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:09 am 

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So are people content with this as a final update for 1.6?


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:09 am 

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fire trapper gonna get his pay day


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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:36 pm 
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ao2005 wrote:
fire trapper gonna get his pay day



Can't do anything about the armor until 1.7

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 Post subject: Re: 1.6b - hotfix update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:42 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:45 pm
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I suggest to remve some oskill like Zeal/Vegean.. Remove all combat skill, then you can save some aura/passive skills...


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