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Poll - Trap Sin
Poll ended at Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:07 pm
Yes - change it to something more direct and better for bosses 50%  50%  [ 1 ]
No - it's good for trash, classic spell, leave it alone 50%  50%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 2
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 Post subject: Poll - Trap Sin
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:07 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 993
A potential change for 1.6b hotfix

Would you, the players, like to see Inferno Sentry changed into something that causes much fewer counters vs bosses, has more range, and creates some sort of direct-damage fire effect? (fireball, meteor, fire line (i.e. Lightning), etc?


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - Trap Sin
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:23 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:50 am
Posts: 130
Inferno and charge bolt traps should remain powerful to a small amount of targets and cause alot of counters if used correctly.

That is the whole point, the more damage dealt, the more counters there are. Setting up traps isn't always easy, so you cannot expect anything but up and down volatility in dps overtime. Meaning 5 traps are not always going to be placed doing damage to the boss, but, because of the high damage it balances out.(although I don't know about the damage nerf this patch).

For example, for bolt trap, place at 45 degree angles on a boss, and you can setup a trap directly under the boss to absorb 100% of bolts. This causes a ton of counters, but, also drops bosses extremely quickly. But, is extremely dangerous and risky.

Fire traps are better at clearing trash, while lightning traps can potentially do more dps to bosses, but is more dangerous. But, they kind of balance out.

Wake of Fire is best at clearing trash because it pierces through hordes of mobs
Inferno gets stuck in place after killing a mob, but, does more dps to bosses than wake.
Fire Blast is better dps to a few mobs or bosses than shockweb when not casting traps.

Lightning trap is decent at clearing trash because it pierces through hordes of mobs.
Charge bolt trap is absorbed by mobs and can be frustrating to use when alot of high res targets are around, but, does more dps to bosses
Shockweb is better aoe dps than fire blast when not casting traps. You can light up the screen


Also, charge bolt sentry requires you to get up close, while inferno is more ranged. Making bolt more dangerous to eat counters, and you may not get off 5 traps at a time with cb.

Because counters are not directed at the assassin, but, instead towards the trap... the only counters that are dangerous are large aoe damaging attacks, like dury's aoe counter thingy he does. It doesn't matter if it's a few counters, or counter spam if the counters are not hitting anyone.It should be the users discretion to throttle dps up or down.

Shadow Master was nerfed into oblivion a few patches back because it was overlooked with the HP changes while valk and other summons got reworked HP. lvl 50 has 3.5k hp... almost a lvl 1 bear, it's an oversight(master used to be nearly as good as a valk). Master previously allowed you to place traps in locations in which traps would direct the counter spam in the direction you wanted. Fix Shadow Master and traps will be easier to handle


Also, your y/n question doesn't seem to understand how fire traps work end game. You don't really use inferno for trash unless it's a single hard mob.

The fact that you equate inferno trap to be something like lightning trap is a misunderstanding of the duality of the lightning/fire trap. Inferno is suppose to be the weaker version of cb trap; used on few targets, high damage, lots of counters. CB does more damage, but more counters, and the number of targets or target type varies between the two. The trade off is that wake of fire is best at clearing trash.


Last edited by mud on Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll - Trap Sin
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 993
I am by no means a master of traps, and don't want to make changes like this unless people really want it, which is why I put this up. When mentioning trash, I was thinking of how it's used to burn down the random gen trash bosses.

From my experience playing with these trap sins though, everyone just gets annoyed when they drop Inferno traps. Yes the bosses do attack the traps, but they also spam crazy novas, falling rocks, and blizzards on everybody, so much so that the game geeks out and everything goes invisible, and the other players in the game ask the Sin to stop doing it.

If people want it left alone, then we'll leave it alone.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - Trap Sin
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:36 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:50 am
Posts: 130
Ensley03 wrote:
I am by no means a master of traps, and don't want to make changes like this unless people really want it, which is why I put this up. When mentioning trash, I was thinking of how it's used to burn down the random gen trash bosses.

From my experience playing with these trap sins though, everyone just gets annoyed when they drop Inferno traps. Yes the bosses do attack the traps, but they also spam crazy novas, falling rocks, and blizzards on everybody, so much so that the game geeks out and everything goes invisible, and the other players in the game ask the Sin to stop doing it.

If people want it left alone, then we'll leave it alone.


Perhaps in normal mode, where people prefer to zerg bosses, it is perhaps contemptible that someone is causes counters too much in the melee zone. But realize this, that most logical people slow their DPS(especially if there are multiple melee in harder areas) if they feel they're causing too many counters already.. and it's the same for any near point blank dps.

Most deep range spam do not have have to worry about hurting melee, with counters that target them like blizz. But, trappers have to be pretty close to a point blank dps for bosses if they want to hurt them. Understand, when doing hell bosses as a melee zealer I would advise that only 1 melee operate at a time. This is because the counter spam of 2 melee is already too much for things like rock fall, and among other things.

Trappers are not just a caster support class, but, a highly risky to self and others point blank boss killer. It's not that traps are annoying, it's that there are too many cooks in the kitchen when they're doing dps. Melee absolutely cannot take strong counter damage, while progressing, while having other near point blank dps counters around them. That is the ultimate issue, and so you want to remove point blank dps class because it interferes with other point blank dps, it isn't logical to someone who's had experience with them end game.

Counter spam can be useful. De Seis for example teleports onto whatever is hitting him. And, bosses that teleport away almost nullify the traps all together. It's mainly bosses like duriel's aoe stomp thing that cause actual counter problems. Bosses like molec who counter alot can actually get players to DC if you can place all 5 cb traps perfectly. I would not say that really is a problem with the traps, but, a problem with molec; because I've seen him also make the screen turn invisible with a party that just has alot of fast attacks.

Basically, traps are a unique situational close range mechanic to bosses in the game that they deal up close damage. I wouldn't mind much if the traps changed spells, but, not their unique close range function, and, as long as the point blank high damage/risk remained on inferno/bolt

No short range build desires to be paired with other fast attacking melee/short range. But, you won't hear any complaints on bosses that no one wants to get near; like the summoner who favors range.

Traps already have been nerfed every other patch and do subpar damage to most bosses. I suggest if you really want to, to just remove the counters from inferno/bolt traps. Traps and classical sins have already been nerfed every other patch via whimsical whims when the real culprits are zons... and fried chicken.


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