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Lets talk Pallies
http://forum.arimyth.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1321		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Dragoonix [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Lets talk Pallies
So today my question is about fanat. and why is fanat so damn godly.

does anyone know exactly what it is about fanat IAS that is so damned special? I just did a test on a weapon speed calculator, and in an instance where i had a weapon needing 49 more ias to make the next break point, lvl 2 fanat was enough to do it, this is LoD fanat, so 18 ias.

the game deal is I'm making a sac/foh pally and want to avoid using fanat if its at all possible (call it personal prejudice) but from what i can tell, i'm getting sucked into it like WW on a barb, its simply too godly to ignore.

Anyone got the facts on this?
Author:  blue_myriddn [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lets talk Pallies
The short answer is that fanat is skill based IAS and that doesn't suffer from diminishing returns like normal IAS does. This means that it continues to be very powerful at high levels where as item based IAS starts to slowly peter out.

The good news for you though is that you should do fine with your build as the large amount of IAS on weapons and gems in this mod will allow you to hit the fastest attack speed with sacrifice without having to rely on fanaticism.
Author:  Dragoonix [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lets talk Pallies
hmm thnx for the response, is frenzy ias similar? this magical skill based ias seems to do a bit more, again when using the weapon speed calculator, even w/ 0 gear ias and only using fanat for ias, it seemed to out perform its stats. just for continuity sake, heres links the wep speed calculator and arreats that i use to get fanat stats.

http://diablo3.ingame.de/tips/calcs/wea ... ng=english

http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/sk ... fanaticism

i assume that the calculator works off LoD stats, even though its recomended in the strategy section of this site

ah, duh, sry. ofc it out perfoms its stats, thats exactly what no diminishing returns would mean, since the thing its out performing is gear ias which has diminishing returns

perhaps something that would help is if there is anywhere i can get the formula for the diminishing returns on gear ias, or something from which i could derive that formula, suppose i could do something with the difference between fanats effect and gear ias effect hmm
Author:  blue_myriddn [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lets talk Pallies
Dragoonix wrote:
perhaps something that would help is if there is anywhere i can get the formula for the diminishing returns on gear ias, or something from which i could derive that formula, suppose i could do something with the difference between fanats effect and gear ias effect hmm


Effective IAS = (120*IAS)/(120 + IAS)

So if you have an item that gives you 80% IAS, diminishing returns kicks in on that and results in:

(120*80)/(120+80) = 9600/200 = 48% IAS
Author:  Dragoonix [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lets talk Pallies
ah, I believe i've seen that somewhere before, thanks again.

Still I dont know about hitting max breakpoint w/o fanat, even if i can, i have to decide if its worth it (current weapon wants 152 ias for last bp). Those are some steep returns considering 1 point in fanat is likely to pull down 30 ias.
Author:  blue_myriddn [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lets talk Pallies
Dragoonix wrote:
ah, I believe i've seen that somewhere before, thanks again.

Still I dont know about hitting max breakpoint w/o fanat, even if i can, i have to decide if its worth it (current weapon wants 152 ias for last bp). Those are some steep returns considering 1 point in fanat is likely to pull down 30 ias.


The ability to craft and quad socket crafts really opens up a lot of doors for a character. Consider this Death Craft armor that I used for mercs on a few of my characters:

Image

That is only 3x 20% IAS jewels too, I could have picked up another 20% IAS on it had I went for a full set of IAS jewels. I did a similar strategy for my young vengeance paladin - I quad socketted a +3 combat skills rare circlet and tossed a few 20% IAS jewels in there to speed up his pretty slow attack. If you are playing softie, I would be happy to give you that circlet assuming that I haven't already given it to someone else.

Bottom line though is that 152% may seem like a big number, but there are lots of ways to get there in this mod without having to use fanaticism.
Author:  Dragoonix [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lets talk Pallies
perhaps perhaps, im looking into it w/ my one ally now. current weapon base is only 0 so if i go -20 or -30 the needed ias is really not that bad, we play offline tho, so ill have to pass on the hand me down gear.

ofc 'preciate all the input, i was in a fanat or gtfo rut, clearly being more picky about my weps is the answer (so far im a stickler for str/dex in gear as we play HC and Korlic taught us pure vit or GTFO)
Author:  blue_myriddn [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lets talk Pallies
pure vit is good, but not the end all be all. We have done a little bit of work in this mod to balance that out so that it isn't such a no brainer to put all your stat points in one thing. An optimized character who goes as much vit as possible will at end game be superior to one who hasn't, but the difference is relatively small.

I personally just spend points in str/dex with moderation and not worry about it. With a paladin especially the %life boost from rubies is really quite powerful.
Author:  Dragoonix [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lets talk Pallies
yea, its rubies that opened my eyes to the possibilities, realizing that i was stacking all my gear w/ str/dex, then that i could just use rubies, w/ that % working in my favor (since its a 2 man team we rarely have a life buff) rubies likely win that round

edit: from everything i have worked out today, it seems a misnomer to call it 'skill ias' as other skills w/ ias dont appear to follow that rule, werewolf distinctly provides what i call gear ias, the stuff w/ diminishing returns (also off wep ias making it weak for a shapeshifted druid ironically enough) the description that it doesnt face diminishing returns is 100% accurate, another way to think of it, is it directly affects base weapon speed (just dont assume this for wereforms or WW barbs)
Author:  Dragoonix [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lets talk Pallies
ah yes, while were on the topic, since you seem to have all the inside info blue, any idea what kinda detriments we are looking at from the debuffs around the world? managed to reach act 2 NM, and it seems a ton of creatures have slow target, theres lots of skeles w/ the new holy freeze aura, and confuse also wreaks havoc on your attack speed, this is all ofc on top of the old school decrep
Author:  Sugarbean [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lets talk Pallies
Or if you want to be awesome, make a Void Fanged Knife, prebuff the Burst of Speed :D
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