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 Post subject: Re: Hell Unleashed Remastered (1.8)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:36 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:03 pm
Posts: 473
Angel wrote:
You have discord cory?

On conversion though, it's both a blessing and a curse. Translates into a lot of fodder to keep merc up, but can be super annoying at the same time.


Just is more annoying than useful. I don't recall anyone ever putting more than 1 point into it.

I was thinking a single target magic based attack called Retribution. Maybe for hammerdins to use vs bosses. Holy bolt and blessed hammer synergies. Converts physical damage to magical damage.

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The body is but a vessel for the soul, a puppet which bends to the souls tyranny. And lo, the body is not eternal, for it must feed on the flesh of others, lest it return to the dust from whence it came. Therefore the soul deceive, despise and murder men.


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 Post subject: Re: Hell Unleashed Remastered (1.8)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:09 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:09 am
Posts: 59
What i suggest not only for this mod but for every D2 mod is:

1)Get rid of charms or do something with them so that they dont end up filling your entire inventory

2)Get rid of Magic Find. Lets not be in dilemma whether we should equip that +MF item or that item with the sweet stats. After all D2 is all about equipping and having fun with the best you have.

3)Skill pre-requirements. Old, bad, unbalanced, outdated feature.


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 Post subject: Re: Hell Unleashed Remastered (1.8)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:37 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
Posts: 969
Not to be used personally, but when the merc converts shit it does take a lot of pressure off of him.

I would remove healing from holy bolt, make an active prayer add a % damage to it similar to conc/hammer interaction. Give it a spread like teeth, but shorter range, giving healers an ability to clear or contribute to trash. Change it to hit everything, not just indead.

Balance prayer pulse to be around 5% of an average characters health per pulse, with perfect gear allotting to around 10%. The ability to wear both med and cleansing would then give 15-30% heal pulses.

Change foh to deal massive damage and massive healing but on a large cast delay. Essentially full healing every character you target it on, but with a 4-5 second cast delay, it wouldn't be as abuseable as current holy bolt. As for damage, dealing massive chunks of damage when healing isn't required is nice. And if it's possible, a decent rotation to weave it in on trash clearing with the spread of bolts it does.

Hammerdins have anways been really wonky. They require melee range to do damage to bosses effectively, their aoe is odd at best. I think doing something similar to how bo is a single skill would be good for their three damage auras. With say might being the base aura, the other auras simply being synergies to might, and having might affect hammer damage. This would give them an 80 point build, 100 if you add a synergy to hammers.

Onto survivability. In general paladins need some sort of survivability. They key ability that is unique is holy shield. If you adopted the above thought process, zeal and hammers would be base 80 point builds with no synergies. Throw holy shield as a synergy and it's a solid 100 point build. Make holy shield give a % life buff so they can compete with barbs and druids and make sure oskill holy shield doesn't exist.

As for auradins, the pierce their auras give should be superior to conviction but for a single element. The pulse should be relevant against white trash, but useless against named. And the primary damage should come from applying the damage from attacks to single target. This was a huge mistake in current 1.7 where the pulse damage is as strong as the auto damage. Either pulse will be too high or added damage will be too low.

Vengeance should just convert physical damage into all three elements, with might aura synergizing with conviction to give it an ed property. I do prefer the aoe vengeance, I always thought it was a nice touch.

---------------------------

On a completely seperate note. Please for the love of god keep items relevant. No need to have useless trash cluttering up the drops. Don't take brevans retarded approach of trying to add all these useless oskills, because what it ends up doing is being utterly useless(like current rendition) or utterly broken(think fire mastery on fire trappers, cold mastery on hurricane druids).

This doesn't mean you shouldn't have oskills. For example, auradins, zealers, eve dclaw sins all have problems clearing trash. Oskill multishot was something that could alleviate said problem, but it was always done wrong. You never shot out enough arrows because the oskill was always too low. Giving early, mid, and late game options for something like this is fine in my opinion.

What is a dumb option would be something like brevans golem set. One nice thing I can think of was the very early access to oskill teleport. This helps summoners immensely, but also any sort of caster who isn't a sorc. But it was done improperly by forcing you to use a staff. I would highly suggest looking into unoptimized early game items to oskill tele(think a set that doesn't give as much +skills as uniques, but doesn't limit weapon/shields). A midgame option that is a bit more optimized.(a piece of jewelry with decent stats, but again less +skills) A late game item that is solid optimization(same +skills as simimlar belts, less defensive stats be it health, mana, res, etc) And finally a 95 that is extremely well optimized, where as you make no concessions for wearing it, it's just good.

On a note about 95s. They're essential for mod longevity. We need things to work towards, to make playing the characters worthwhile. 95s were an excellent source of this. But again I will dictate that I would like to see skill gcs in the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Hell Unleashed Remastered (1.8)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:40 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
Posts: 969
To respond to doubtfulmind

1. Charms are an excellent source of longevity to character creation. Removing them would be a poor idea, especially since the cube is already excessive inventory space.

2. Mf really only mattered in trash clearing, and in that regard it is a choice between clearing more efficiently versus finding more items. i think it works well, and forces you to find a decent balance between the two stats.

3. Hardly makes any difference. If you mean having everything available at one, it just makes balancing the numbers harder.


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 Post subject: Re: Hell Unleashed Remastered (1.8)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:00 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:09 am
Posts: 59
1)My point is that the general idea of having charms filling your inventory is simply a bad game design. There should be some kind of limit.

2)Again, it depends on the mod. In HU 1.7 it was useless for bosses but very useful to get quality items from trash packs.
BUT if you have a mod where the boss has 10% to drop unique item and you have 100% MF, that simply means another +10% chance to get that unique (20% total).
And this is exactly why its a bad design. Because if a mod is truly hard then you need all the good statistics you can get to deal with the content and not care whether you have MF or not.
And again, the same goes for trash mobs. If they are hard enough then u need all the good gear u can get instead of going for MF.
Games like D2 are all about: Equip the best gear you have and go kill staff thats why i believe MF is simply a bad feature.

3)Sorry but you are wrong.
AGAIN!! It depends on the mod. If in your mod every skill point counts then wasting a point on a skill that isnt part of your build, is 100% waste and its the opposite of build diversity cause it forces you to spend points on skill u simply might not want.
If you think skill X is weaker than skill Y then instead of forcing ppl to learn skill X to get access to skill Y, either modify skill X to make it competitive with other skills or simply remove it and add another skill thats good enough to be competitive.
Forcing ppl to learn useless skills is excuse of a bad game design.


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 Post subject: Re: Hell Unleashed Remastered (1.8)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:12 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
Posts: 969
There really isn't a better way of doing it tbh, and I personally like charms. Not sure why you hate them so much.

I find this interesting since the majority of my gear was from farming normal bosses for base gear to upgrade. Between that and gambling, gold find was the big winner. Mf is and was useless in 1.7 because no lucrative gear existed.

Lastly lots of things are bad game design, but people work with the limitations of the engine. In general prereqs have little consequence, the one and only issue is dodge and evade on melee zons. As for level reqs, it allows you to kit powerful spells later.


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 Post subject: Re: Hell Unleashed Remastered (1.8)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:03 pm
Posts: 473
DoubtFuLMind wrote:
What i suggest not only for this mod but for every D2 mod is:

1)Get rid of charms or do something with them so that they dont end up filling your entire inventory

2)Get rid of Magic Find. Lets not be in dilemma whether we should equip that +MF item or that item with the sweet stats. After all D2 is all about equipping and having fun with the best you have.

3)Skill pre-requirements. Old, bad, unbalanced, outdated feature.


Appreciate feedback.

1 and 2 have same answer. It's a choice of strategy. You can fill inventory with charms that will boost your character, but it makes picking up gear harder. You can put on MF gear to boost odds of finding better stuff, but you are going to clear slower vs good gear.

As for 3 I think the prerequisites for skills is essential. You wont drop more than a few skill points anyways in prerequisites so it's not really a big deal. Need to learn how to stand before you can walk, need to learn how to walk before you can run.

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The body is but a vessel for the soul, a puppet which bends to the souls tyranny. And lo, the body is not eternal, for it must feed on the flesh of others, lest it return to the dust from whence it came. Therefore the soul deceive, despise and murder men.


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 Post subject: Re: Hell Unleashed Remastered (1.8)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:09 am
Posts: 59
I can see what u mean (regarding pre-reqs) but still, this is a game in the end a skill thats not being used is simply a bad skill.
Pre-reqs wouldnt be so bad (thinking of vanilla for example) IF the skills that are required to get access to the next skill give you proper syngery bonuses. So that u dont feel u wasted points, PLUS this way your way of thinking (first stand, then walk etc) will make more sense realistically as well. Because standing gives you bonus to walking. So the same should be applied to the game. For example (just example to get what i am saying), if the first skill in the column is Leap which is required for Leap Attack then Leap HAS to give a decent amount of bonus to Leap Attack and every other skill in the Column, because for example, if the column has 4 skills and all you want for your build is the last skill (forth) then all the 3 previous skills have to give bonus to that forth skill so that you dont feel that u wasted 3 points just to finally get access to the skill u really wanted.


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 Post subject: Re: Hell Unleashed Remastered (1.8)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:47 pm
Posts: 35
If there are charms to be had, make them prizes for challenges and progression. No random drop charms would be my preference.


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 Post subject: Re: Hell Unleashed Remastered (1.8)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:30 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:09 am
Posts: 59
Malpheas wrote:
If there are charms to be had, make them prizes for challenges and progression. No random drop charms would be my preference.


+ to this.


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