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 Post subject: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:17 pm 
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Just wondering if anyone had any idea's that would allow more feasibility/flexibility for multi-build templates... Synergies can make this challenging as many complete focused builds require 60,80, or 100 skillpoints.

60 skillpoint complete builds certainly have a lot of flexibility for developing a secondary path as you have plenty of skill points left over to pull it over. The 80-100 point builds not so much. I was never a big fan of strict cookie-cutter builds and I always considering implementing more flexible builds in terms of synergies and more feasibility for secondary builds but it seemed like a pretty large work load and fairly problematic as it would likely require re-balancing of many of the skills and their synergies to pull it off.


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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:26 pm 
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Before synergys you use to see a lot more of the multi builds especially in classic D2, but it's still doable you just won't be doing the full damage of either skill but maybe you wouldn't have to deal with immunes. It just depends on how slow you are comfortable with clearing. Only way to change this would be to redo a few skill trees and the synergy system.

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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:00 am 
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this was discussed a bit before the last patch for sorc tree's but the workload was too much for anyone to consider last time, and there was always the potential for something going wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:25 am 

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Id just like to see more options end game options for certain things. Such as a leap attack assasin. Or a very weak version of werewolf on a barb or paly item (other than ctc on fury) or a lightning fury oskill on a non javelin throwing weapon (think paly)


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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:05 am 
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Actually we should be careful about making werewolf available to other classes. The presence of werewolf will shatter all the normal final breakpoints for all skills except WW (which is a spell itself). Way back when when there was WW oskill available in AM there was actually a paladin who had a 3 frame zeal due to the SS.


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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:56 am 

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Ahh yea you know that even crossed my mind when i typed that but it was late. How about a lightning oskill throwing weapon? Id love to play a holy shock paly that can throw lightning bolts :P


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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:01 am 
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Beast already gives the wolf morph + fana and decent on weapon IAS. Combined, they give a pretty sweet zeal speed. I used it on an old sanctuary/holyshock zealer a while back and loved it. Nice combo with dream helm + maxed shock synergys on a regular magic based sanctuary pally. Never meet a full immune and you can switch to convic for enemys with big magic resist like darkness.

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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:18 pm 
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Making a SS form available to a very specific weapon is one thing since the on weapon IAS can be strictly controlled. Making a Werewolf/werebear oskill available is a whole other can of worms. That would mean exposing SS to whatever is the speediest weapon with high end ED%. A 751% ED death craft with 180% IAS (or for that matter a zodded 691% ED with 160% IAS) would surely be just as damaging per hit as even an an eth Beast RW (which is not practical unfortunately due to no indestructible) only even faster still.


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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Ya, i'm pointing out that you can already transform into a wolf to use a better set of breakpoints with zeal from sammy charm, not disagreeing with you.

ED% matters very little for a magic based sanctuary zealer though, so you would be better with celestial spheres or ether stones for pierce/ar/speed (ar especially since they struggle a bit with that). Maybe an eth rune if you are really struggling to hit enemys. You can flash redemption if you need a quick hp recovery on trash and leech is garbage against the majority of bosses at that stage.

I'd love to see a 751%ED death craft with 180 IAS. I doubt one of those has ever been seen on the realm though.
I'd also love to see an eth weapon zodded with 691ED% and 160IAS but you cant make eth crafts.

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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:22 pm 
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Just pointing out theoretical possibilities actually. Between the craft automods and the affixes it is possible.


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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:35 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
you cant make eth crafts.

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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:45 pm 
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You can add eth preffix(with high level req) and eventually crafts will spawn with it.
I posted pics somewhere of crafts always with "ethereal" mod for fun but guys said it could be too strong (even if craft gave only eth and rest from rare mods, well).
Btw. Maxlevel should be used on many pity mods so they don't spawn on 80+ rares/crafts... but seeing how pref/suffix tables are made...


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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:08 pm 
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IIRC all it needs for eth crafting is a recipe for all crafting but with ,eth added to the end of input1 and output. or you could add ethereal as a property for the eth craft lines.

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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:57 pm 
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While max level could definitely make it easier to roll a 511% ED rare the question is just how far should weak mod pruning at high levels be taken? Taken to the extreme things could probably be made so that it's easier to roll a 511% ED/40% IAS weapon with 2-3% CB or 15% DS than it is to roll a just a 511% ED weapon now.

Also having that eth affix as a rare prefix would have some unintended consequences. A person rolling non eth rares with glyphs would sooner or later get that eth affix. Should the person continue rolling with glyphs the cubemain would just switch over to the eth rare recipe and just continually make it eth without the presence of the eth prefix (which would make getting the eth rare worlds easier).


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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:13 pm 
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Taken to the extreme things could probably be made so that it's easier to roll a 511% ED/40% IAS weapon with 2-3% CB or 15% DS than it is to roll a just a 511% ED weapon now.
A weapon on which you spend 40mln of gold/few hours to roll will be possible a little better than any 90lvl wpsn... I don't know if anyone bothered to roll any wpn past 80lvl. This might be related to melee being weak and always eth the best bows...
But dividing magic mods to 2-3 groups like 1-40, 40+ (or 40-60, 60+)gives you more space to balance rares early, you can set 20lvl prefix to spawn with 200(example)% ed and never see it past 40lvl.

Yeah, that eth prefix is a bad idea, forgot it could make eth items not eth.


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 Post subject: Re: The viability of multi-builds
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:01 am 
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rolling weapons is tedious

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