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 Post subject: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:05 pm 

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after some discussion with kevin (purerage-dod), he was willing to put together a complete patch. a link to the patch is included for anyone who wishes to test it out on single player. all input is greatly appreciated!

PureRage-DoD wrote:
1: cb added to a couple of mace type 1 handers
2: cb increased to a max of 6% on the items that have cb already
3: ber rune changed to 2%cb in weapons
4: holy auras synergys changed to convic and respective resist aura both for 20%
5: MDR on diamonds cut back
6: Armor override on zerk reduced by 5% per hard point (negated when maxed)
7: Geddon and valor rws masterys removed and replaced with 50% fire mastery
8: maul grants 10% critical +2% per hard point
9: fana grants 10% critical +2% per hard point
10: plague jav damage dropped back by 10% on tier 5
11: plague jav duration at tier 1 changed from 10frames per lvl to 5
12: necro blades cooldown increased to 2.5 secs
13: buffed spirit wolves damage and increased max number to 2+1 per 5 soft levels
14: dire wolves damage increased slightly and max number increased to 3
15: HoW grants 1% dr per hard point to the party
16: SoB grants 1% ele absorb per 2 hard points
17: Bone spear tier 5 damage scaled back by 10%
18: Bone Spirit damage increased by 10% on tier 5
19: rabies tier 5 damage scaled back by 15%
20: facets range from 2-5%
21: amp values reinstated but enemys cursed with it also deal bonus damage = phys pierce on amp
22: enemy lifetap causes hp drain = their level per second
23: shields base damage increased by 20%
24: smite damage per level increased by 5%
25: blessed aim grants 1% passive lifesteal per level
26: elemental set parts grant +20 oskill meteor, glacial spike and thunder storm when fully equipped
27: confuse is no longer overwritten by other curses
28: meteor patch duration reduced by 20%
29: ce timer removed
30: Medi on holy amulets replaced with prayer
31: Crushing blow added as a suffix at 2-3% on weapons
32: deadly strike added as a suffix on weapons at 5-15%
33: templars armor changed to +2 skills and minimum pierce dropped to 8% elemental/pois and 4% magic (max unchanged)
34: topaz craft armor caps at +1 skills
35: boss resists remain untouched
36: all of the LoS heroes are now knockback immune
37: decoy reduced from 100% of zon hp + 10% per lvl to 75% of zon hp +3% hp per lvl.
38: fixed moncurse versions of amp + lower resist
39: summons Ai delay dropped to 2 frames
40: frozen armor def bonus dropped to 20% per level
41: necromage hp gain fixed and increased to 10% per level
42: necromage missiles buffed
43: HoW aura increased to 40% def/ar/damage + 15 per level, up from 36%+12% per level
44: blessed aim fixed/strategy conflict fixed
45: Cold sorb on slav i already fixed, forgot to add it on the list
46: prayer tier 5 dropped from 12 to 10
47: non skill IAS returned to smite
48: hurricane missiles no longer effected by slow missiles
49: IM divisor increased to /50 vs players from /40
50: Wolves max pet desription updated
50: d knight AI delay fixed
52: Phoenix strike missiles got a 1 in apply mastery

*Note: also added a new boss (Soulmancer). He resides in his temple in the great void. To get there, you need to mix all 7 hero's hearts in the cube and use the portal skill on the key you get (Cast at The Throne of the Dead)

*Note2: the level is currently in act 1 so people can check it out in sp. To get the key at the min, cube a health and mana potion together. (also grants the hero's reward you will get for killing him to check it out)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15324396/HU%20Shit/data.rar


for anyone who wants to test it out - just extract this data folder into a copy of your current HU folder. create a new shortcut with -direct -txt and you're good to go.


Last edited by Pious on Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:18 pm 
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casting amp makes guys immune :D, little typo with dm56, should be -dm56 or dm56*-1

The boss is cool but isn't area too small for him? What's his dmg +-?
You should set that cube rec formula to hell only (guess it's for now only on all diffs)


Last edited by Steel on Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:19 pm 
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ah durp, updating that

Edit: fixed and dl link updated

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Ok ran some chars that I made for testing. 309k plague became 210k, berserker 0% def penalty works ok, 49lvl decoy 147% hp... what about HoW values? dmg and ar like more than 12 per lvl?
Also can Frozen armor be nerfed? It goes 25% per lvl, no other buff than defiance aura give that massive def bonus per lvl. Shout goes 10%, HoW 12 (still must be active), FA should be 15% lvl at most. Unpopular decision I think.
Summons ai delay? still at the same value of 7 or less? skele magies hp gain tweak + buff, inc dmg
You could set higher values for necromage1-4 in missiles.txt min/maxelvlx or add them passive pierce = skill('Skeleton Mastery'.lvl)


Last edited by Steel on Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:48 pm 
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all done, and dl link updated and changelog

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Fallens have like 1mln hp btw. :D


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:01 pm 
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well spotted, a left over from the lifetap testing we done ages ago. updated

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:03 pm 
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Blessed aim strategy bug fix.
Scale back t5 prayer.
Mental sin updates.
With the cutting back of MDR Melee zons are left where now? (I liked the 2% Strategy thing)
Some item updates.
Remove shard provs
Wep IAS back to smite?
New craft numbers Blue had suggested
Slow missles unaffecting Hurri (to reduce lag)
Poison Necro ( :( )
Salv Cold Sorb
Gotta do something about fire Druids. Unpopular choice firestorm uncastable from shift. (or reduce life % from soft points from lycan but this hurts all druids)

This is all I could come up with in my sleep deprived state to try and fix I'll run some tests on single player later. Zealers look like they should be playable now.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:17 pm 
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blessed aim fixed/strategy conflict fixed
Cold sorb on slav i already fixed, forgot to add it on the list
prayer tier 5 dropped from 12 to 10
non skill IAS returned to smite
hurricane missiles no longer effected by slow missiles


Dont wanna go into the craft stuff outside of the topaz armor, i cant stand item editing and i simply dont have the drive to go through em
Shard procs, no ideas for something else that differentiates them from boss to boss without a proc.
Zon lifebuff would require itemtype editing and lots and lots of unique editing. I'd have to give every single spear in the game a hidden stat that is used by strategys calculation for hp% and i simply dont have the time or drive to edit all those items.
Mentalsin buff, are there numbers i can go on? I do remember a post with suggested progression tho.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:21 pm 
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From what I remember:
Blessed aim or perfection need a new state to not override each other.
Hurricane needs "slow" set to 0 in missiles
Wolf/dire need skilldesc update with "max pet"
Assassin's phoenix missiles need "apply mastery" in missiles.txt
Blizzard lvl of a3 guys lowered/glacial too?
MindBlast Sins dmg was adjusted by Abominae(well his idea)(keep in mind LoS sin has 10k dmg psych hammer counter already)
skelchamp id785 AI still as in 1.21
Hydras ai somehow buffed, takes 1 sec before they start attacking
mon iron maiden needs different % gain per lvl or /xx to players. It's 10%dmg per lvl with base 100% and /40 of that to players.. Diablo hell has 20lvl moncurse, to counter that you need 200%ll with 25% drain effectiveness/hell penalty
Boss drain needs looking
Can't remember what more...

edit: nvm, didn't see Lock's post..
1) viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3827
2) viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3969 2nd and 3rd page iirc.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:34 pm 
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IM divisor increased to /50 vs players from /40
Wolves max pet desription updated
d knight AI delay fixed
Phoenix strike missiles got a 1 in apply mastery


Left blizz alone, its nice to have some spiking elemental attacks IMO.
Left hydras alone, they seemed to perform ok on mine and i dont wanna mess with it at this stage

Edit: link is a constant link, ie. its always the most up to date.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:57 pm 
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SoB - missing the new state "energy" in states.txt, only lightning abs works (it's 3x lightabs)


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:02 pm 
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fixed and updated.

Wasnt the state that was missing, it dont need a state. I just gave it 1 energy per hard point so I could keep track of the base level you have. Then used the stat from the blvl in the calc for the absorbs

Problem was, I added light absorb 3 times instead of light + fire and cold. oops

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:06 pm 
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Crushing Blow
I see no strategic value in having a flat value for all weapons regardless of other mods. The model I am proposing:

"GoreRod, Woesatve, Husoldal Evo, Stormspire, Steelpillar = 4% Crushing Blow
IK Maul, Hone Sundan, Humongous, Minotaur, Exec justice, Windhammer, = 5%
Bloodtree Stump = 6%
Bonesnap = 8%"

Appears superior in practice as it takes in to account weapon speeds and other properties rather than a 1 size fits all approach.

plague jav damage dropped back by 10% on tier 5
This is not consistent with what your text files have. Here are the numbers:

Current realm values: 36/64/102
Your text file values: 36/60/82
my proposed values: 30/60/90

I would argue that may numbers have better value as they address the issue of poison jav throughout the entire game rather than simply end game. When you have top heavy balance adjustments, it tends to frustrate players who experience a powerful character early game that then fizzles out end game.

You are also not addressing Poison jav at all - which is a very powerful skill and will I suspect simply be used instead of plague jav.

Other tier5 skill adjustments
Similar statements as above.

facets range from 2-5%
templars armor changed to +2 skills and minimum pierce dropped to 8% elemental/pois and 4% magic (max unchanged)

This to me just increases the tedium of finding good items and rewards single player farming over team play.

I would suggest setting it to 3-5% if you want to decrease facet potency, which I certainly don't argue against. Keep in mind though that this ONLY impact new facets found and not current facets.

From the list, I think that we can quickly and without trouble implement:
23: shields base damage increased by 20%
24: smite damage per level increased by 5%
36: all of the LoS heroes are now knockback immune

Not including the items that are already addressed in my proposed patch (which is the majority of them). The shield/smite stuff is easily put in to play, but I am unsure where the knockback aspect is for the LOS heroes. Just let me know which txt file that is located in and I can get it in place.

For reference (to save complaints), I have highlighted the items in the list that are already addressed in the patch I have rolling:

1: cb added to a couple of mace type 1 handers
2: cb increased to a max of 6% on the items that have cb already
3: ber rune changed to 2%cb in weapons

4: holy auras synergys changed to convic and respective resist aura both for 20%
5: MDR on diamonds cut back
6: Armor override on zerk reduced by 5% per hard point (negated when maxed)
7: Geddon and valor rws masterys removed and replaced with 50% fire mastery
8: maul grants 10% critical +2% per hard point
9: fana grants 10% critical +2% per hard point
10: plague jav damage dropped back by 10% on tier 5
11: plague jav duration at tier 1 changed from 10frames per lvl to 5

12: necro blades cooldown increased to 2.5 secs
13: buffed spirit wolves damage and increased max number to 2+1 per 5 soft levels
14: dire wolves damage increased slightly and max number increased to 3
15: HoW grants 1% dr per hard point to the party
16: SoB grants 1% ele absorb per 2 hard points
17: Bone spear tier 5 damage scaled back by 10%
18: Bone Spirit damage increased by 10% on tier 5
19: rabies tier 5 damage scaled back by 15%

20: facets range from 2-5%
21: amp values reinstated but enemys cursed with it also deal bonus damage = phys pierce on amp
22: enemy lifetap causes hp drain = their level per second
23: shields base damage increased by 20%
24: smite damage per level increased by 5%
25: blessed aim grants 1% passive lifesteal per level
26: elemental set parts grant +20 oskill meteor, glacial spike and thunder storm when fully equipped
27: confuse is no longer overwritten by other curses
28: meteor patch duration reduced by 20%
29: ce timer removed
30: Medi on holy amulets replaced with prayer

31: Crushing blow added as a suffix at 2-3% on weapons
32: deadly strike added as a suffix on weapons at 5-15%
33: templars armor changed to +2 skills and minimum pierce dropped to 8% elemental/pois and 4% magic (max unchanged)
34: topaz craft armor caps at +1 skills
35: boss resists remain untouched
36: all of the LoS heroes are now knockback immune
37: decoy reduced from 100% of zon hp + 10% per lvl to 75% of zon hp +3% hp per lvl.
38: fixed moncurse versions of amp + lower resist
39: summons Ai delay dropped to 2 frames
40: frozen armor def bonus dropped to 20% per level
41: necromage hp gain fixed and increased to 10% per level
42: necromage missiles buffed
43: HoW aura increased to 40% def/ar/damage + 15 per level, up from 36%+12% per level
44: blessed aim fixed/strategy conflict fixed
45: Cold sorb on slav i already fixed, forgot to add it on the list
46: prayer tier 5 dropped from 12 to 10

47: non skill IAS returned to smite
48: hurricane missiles no longer effected by slow missiles

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Also,

4: holy auras synergys changed to convic and respective resist aura both for 20%
Changes like this are nice, but I worry about them being implemented server side due to display errors. I can envision a host of confusion from players who see one thing on their skill tree and something totally different when they actually add points.

I would suggest only implementing skill adjustments like this in conjunction with a full update rather than with a serverside "hotfix"

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:14 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
fixed and updated.

Wasnt the state that was missing, it dont need a state. I just gave it 1 energy per hard point so I could keep track of the base level you have. Then used the stat from the blvl in the calc for the absorbs

Problem was, I added light absorb 3 times instead of light + fire and cold. oops
And I posted this and then realized I had 1 point in sob. Funny tho, yeah state isn't needed.

How about switching paladin vengance animation/give extra pierce to it/give some new rw with 10lvl conviction on wear - with currenty selfsynergy formula all your hard points pierce will be xfered to that aura allowing them to use something different/help holy aura dins
Change to lightning/chain light cast anim too?
Forb damage increase? I have 90lvl orb sorc with nearly the best items at that lvl and I'm hitting 8k per bolt, 5lvl(+skills ofc) blizz outdamages orb and it has only 1 synergy maxed... Well maybe this build is ok just I don't have experience with sorcs. I can gear her up and give exact numbers later.
Quote:
Changes like this are nice, but I worry about them being implemented server side due to display errors. I can envision a host of confusion from players who see one thing on their skill tree and something totally different when they actually add points.
I thought it was going to be a normal update... it's too big to hotfix server :P


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:27 pm 
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the client update is there in the first post, that updates everything clientside.

@CB: it does vary from weapon to weapon, from 4-6 on 2 handers. Just in no perticular patern.

Plague jav/tier5 stuff: math moment ftw, however, damage in the early/mid game is fine with plague isn't it? Early and mid game is whare things are the most balanced. The problems start at skill level 45ish.
Pois Jav: I didnt edit it because its smaler AoE than plague and its duration is static, With the nerf to decoy, they will have to move around more but the duration means they also have to attack more.

Pierce on temps/facets:
facets already have a range diff of 3, so it wont be more tedious than it is already.
Templars will be used regardless of the variation in pierce, high def, all res and +2 skills. yum yum.

kb immune LOS is done in monstats and monstats2

look for druid and change his monstatsex to druid (from wolf)
open monstats2 and copy wolf to the bottom and rename it druid. remove the 1 from the mKB column. Same with paladin and amazo in monstats2.

As far as item editing goes, i hate spending time in those files so I avoided most of it.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:37 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Pois Jav: I didnt edit it because its smaler AoE than plague and its duration is static, With the nerf to decoy, they will have to move around more but the duration means they also have to attack more.

Duration is mostly irrelevant as throwers toss much more than 1 jav every 5-8 seconds. The rate is the only key factor, the duration can pretty much be ignored other than providing people who don't understand the math of poison a nice big number to look at.

Having played a psn jav through normal, I can tell you that the problem isn't just end game. I have been single player running a jav with the values I have together and she is still very strong and not 100% gimped. I would hate to crush the build altogether by implementing a 37% reduction in the final tier,

Thx for the info on the txt files, will chuck that in there and keep mulling over the other proposals.

I view any sort of client side edit as purely optional unless there is a reset to force people's hands. Massive client side downloads also provide a spike to our hosting folks and I try to avoid that when possible to prevent being a burden to them.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Anyway we can bring back the psn cloud to the psn striker? As it is now it is almost impossable to hit any boss from a3 nm and up...

A idea with soul shard procs ... Change the procs to a oskill ...This can make for some neat late game ideas for chars.. Not sure what oskill for each act to go with the boss theme..

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:45 pm 
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Wow, I go to lunch and look what I come back to :D .

After the bulk is done, please do not forget a few things the buglist. Looks like a number of them have already been addressed. I will put an X or something before the ones that have been fixed so you don't have to scour as much...a few skill and item things need a quick fix. I am wary of doing them myself from the download because by the time I get them done, it will prolly be updated from that version.

Edit: I edited the buglist to highlight what has been done on Rage's side of things. I didn't note Blue's fixes as I don't know if these lists will be somewhat merged or what...he has fixed a few other things on the buglist.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:54 pm 

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PureRage-DoD wrote:

Dont wanna go into the craft stuff outside of the topaz armor, i cant stand item editing and i simply dont have the drive to go through em


I understand you, but does this mean we're not getting those super awesomely cool new safety crafts?! I'd do the item editing but I have no fucking idea how to do it.
Didnt someone say that they could do them if needed? didnt kramuti say he could do it?

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:02 pm 
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Quote:
Didnt someone say that they could do them if needed? didnt kramuti say he could do it?


Yes, as long as nobody else is going to do anything in this file, and if Blue's fixes are not merged to some extent. I have to grade crap at some point today, will be gone all day tomorrow...really weekend would be best for me to do this if need be.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:05 pm 
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@Blue: The tier 5 drop is 10% tier 4 6%ish
your values only bring an average of an extra 2 per level over tier's 3 4 and 5
Applying the hitshift thats 1.5625 per second forthe duration of the poison (before synergys obviously)
I would say they are pretty close to each other, on average. So either way is fine. My way simply slows them down in hell (whare builds should be being slowed down IMO) and leaves them roughly as they are through norm and nm.
I wouldn't worry about a zon being overpowered in normal, its hard to find a char that is underpowered in normal.


Remember pois jav and spray have a hitshift of 2 while plague has a hitshift of 3

The diff between a hitshift of 2 and 3 is a 100% boost meaning those tiers are still higher than poison jav is. If pois jav is already very strong then plague jav will still be very strong and even your current values for plague are still around 30% higher than that of poison jav.

Still, its a ranged attack that causes 1 counter per 8 secs max and can be used from a distance with a recastable tank to distract bosses.

NP about a clientside host. I can host it from my dropbox, thats whare its at atm anyway (very good download speed) and its only a very small file.

@Verb: Not from me, i dont have the time nor the drive to do items. Today was all I could spare to do this.

Edit: also, no love for:
Quote:
*Note: also added a new boss (Soulmancer). He resides in his temple in the great void. To get there, you need to mix all 7 hero's hearts in the cube and use the portal skill on the key you get (Cast at The Throne of the Dead)

*Note2: the level is currently in act 1 so people can check it out in sp. To get the key at the min, cube a health and mana potion together. (also grants the hero's reward you will get for killing him to check it out)

?
Requires no reset or anything, dan been messing around with him today :)
Image

He casts bone spirits when he takes damage, uses hoarfrost, lightning vortex, nihlas fire ring and Bone Spear. He also counters with diablos flamewave.
He has a 1% chance to summon a protector when he takes damage that renders him completely immune while it is alive.
His platform is a small floating rectangle and his AI distance covers the whole area.
He will sometimes use dragonflight on ranged players who get over excited.

It's Soulmancer, he has to be hard!
He drops the Hero's Reward Grand Charm.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:09 pm 
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Well. I'm aware that most of PR gg changes won't be implemented in final "hotfix" update. IF Blue says no :P

As for download big patches... hosts can download data/dll folder and it will be ok, same as we can. Big patches can be hosted on free filesharing sites too.

Imo it's better to give something more after 7months without reset so future, if any, bugs will be found before reset. Well at least I could see a good amp for a moment. Giving 6points do din should require reset, not before as I'm not seeing 99% dins redoing chars.

Kramuti - update that WW missing mag synergy - it can't be done, ww func doesn't have any calc4 as other barbarian skills. Synergy from berserker should be removed from WW as it doesnt work.


Last edited by Steel on Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:12 pm 
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Steel wrote:
...Kramuti - update that WW missing mag synergy - it can't be done, ww func doesn't have any calc4 as other barbarian skills. Synergy from berserker should be removed from WW as it doesnt work.

Noted. Will change the listing.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:28 pm 
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kramuti wrote:
Quote:
Didnt someone say that they could do them if needed? didnt kramuti say he could do it?


Yes, as long as nobody else is going to do anything in this file, and if Blue's fixes are not merged to some extent. I have to grade crap at some point today, will be gone all day tomorrow...really weekend would be best for me to do this if need be.


Feel free, though blue is almost done with his now so probs wont be needed.

Its there for future patches or for folks to mess around with if they like though.

Anyway on that note, I should get back to my own stuff or i gonna miss my weekend deadline.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:16 pm 
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On the topic of Poizons beign OP in Normal - I remember playing with a lvl60ish plaguezon a while ago. He dropped Baal in 10 sec... he said he had 80k damage. True or not, I do not know, but if it is, such a high damage shouldn't be possible, even if you are twinked as hell.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:20 pm 
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these are rush zons with 70lvl elite crafts like 20/20 psn belts, 2 all skill armors etc. That damage will be the same up to 85lvl. Rabies can have 120k psn damage leaving norm and 125k entering hell.
Remember that psn doesn't stack! in any 5ppl+ game psn does little to nothing dmg. I saw many 160k psn zons on hell having problems with siege beasts (well low pierce I think).
Don't overnerf psn too much as it will become sleepyfest vs anything that moves. Sometimes it's good to have a boss killer when other chars just lack firepower - like chain lightning sorcs aren't much effective vs bosses around their lvl, long cast animation and big dmg spread etc. There are few builds like that but well, don't overnerf/overbuff anything as we're heading good way (with amp making it's return - nonlikely :( )


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:47 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
NP about a clientside host. I can host it from my dropbox, thats whare its at atm anyway (very good download speed) and its only a very small file.

It isn't a small file once it is compiled in to a full download. You will be looking at a 365MB file. Dropbox will probably disallow that.

As for local data folders that people can run, ya sure - *THAT* is a small file easily hosted about anywhere, but that is also something that is going to be optional. For new players, having to jump through all sorts of hoops to get a version installed isn't good. It will also make this patch incompatible with D2SE and I have been working with Seltsamuel of late to get us integrated in to his program. A single zip file is crucial for that and will make future updates much easier (or so it seems).

As such - I really don't think now is the time for adjustments that REQUIRE a client update. So if there are changes that are going to introduce display errors, I think we just need to push them off to the Fall/Winter reset.

re: Soulmancer boss
Will that work without a client update? Seems like a pretty significant change for a strictly serverside adjustment, but I don't know the inner workings very well. I have been sticking with very simple straight forward adjustments.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:58 pm 
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Blue, i know this is not relevant for the patch, but are you adding the new runewords and changes the community agreed on?

New Rune words:
First 3 are shields, last 3 are claws only

Woe (Sur Lo Sol)
+2 to All Skills
Resist All +25%
+50-100% Enhanced Defense
+10 – 30 Energy
+500 Defense
5-10% Cold Absorb
+30% Increased Chance of Blocking
Level 10 Holy Freeze Aura when Equipped
Adds 250-500 Cold Damage
+6% to Magic Skill Damage
+6% to Cold Skill Damage
Damage Reduced by 10

Daylight (Sur Ohm Sol)
+2 to All Skills
Resist All +25%
+50-100% Enhanced Defense
+10 – 30 Energy
+500 Defense
5-10% Lightning Absorb
+30% Increased Chance of Blocking
Level 12 Holy Shock Aura when Equipped
Adds 1-1000 Lightning Damage
+6% to Magic Skill Damage
+6% to Lightning Skill Damage
Damage Reduced by 10

Victory (Ber Mal Sol Shael)
+2 to All Skills
Resist All +25%
+300-400% Enhanced Defense
5-10% Cold Absorb
90% Faster Block Rate
+30% Increased Chance of Blocking
Level 20 Might Aura when Equipped
Indestructible
Curse Duration Reduced by 6%
Magic Damage Reduced by 15
Damage Reduced by 10
10% Faster Run Walk

Madness (Dol Lum Tir)
+1-2 to Shadow Disciplines
20-25% Faster Cast Rate
-8-10% Enemy Magic Resists
Resist All +10%
+12 to Mana After Each Kill
+24 Life After Each Kill
+30 Energy
+60 to Mana

Deception (Mal Lum Tir)
+3 to Assasin Skill Levels
+30% Faster cast Rate
-15-20% Enemy Magic Resists
Resist All +10-15%
+12 to Mana After Each Kill
+30 Energy
+60 to Mana

Shadow of Doubt (Jah Lum Tir)
+3 to Assasin Skill Levels
+2 to Psychic Hammer
+2 to Mind Blast
+45% Faster cast Rate
-30% Enemy Magic Resists
Resist All +15%
+12 to Mana After Each Kill
+30 Energy
+60 to Mana


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:03 pm 
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Absolutely no way a brand new maps/cube recipes/monsters (especially new monster IDs of any sort) could possibly work with only a server side adjustment.

Also it should be noted any damage tier adjustments aren't going to display properly without a client side update (it won't cause any crash problems for damage tier changes but server side damage definately won't agree what the unupdated client side claim it should be).

The only server side changes one could do without updating client side that's completely bug report safe would be changes to the monsters stats and counter strength/existing item stats (as long as it doesn't modify save bit field lengths)/ and item drop rates.

Things such as brand new runewords would require a client side update.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:11 pm 
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data folder is fully compatable with d2se, theres even 2 little check boxes to turn it on or off.

That folder there is all that is needed for a client update. I doubt a data folder will be an issue as clientside updates have never been a problem before. Hell Unleashed.bat already runs -direct -txt automatically. You dont have to pack it all into a clientside patch, just a data folder (as its all text editing its small)
I'm very familiar with D2SE as its required to play my mod (multiple MPQ's). Is extremely user friendly and a clientside update would be easily added.


Without a client update, decoy hp wont display right and ce cooldown removal wont work right as the clientside click wont register. A clientside update should be offered at the very least, be it with or without whats done here.

Safe stuff to do without a client update:
Cube recipes
Monster stats/skills/equip/properties
armor/weapon def/damage adjustments
uniqueitems, sets and runewords (as long as the runeword already has a name slot). If you add a new runeword with a new name you need a client update. (Same for adding new uniques/sets)


Anything else will need a client side update to sync up propperly with whats happening server side.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:19 pm 
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Not all cube recipes are necessarily safe though. If it's a cube recipe to create a new item such as that key to lead to the soulmancer boss it would probably be a problem.

It should be noted though D2SE has a mechanism for allowing users to apply txt updates in a small easy package though (in the form of replacing only 1 mpq file). With this easy update feature on D2SE you should not really discourage yourself from client side updates as long as it does not include new monster sprites, music, or maps. The update mpq will stay tiny as long as the updates are only the txt files.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:41 pm 

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" new boss" cant something more creative be done other than using the 7 hearts, they are a pain to get as it is.

what about shard procs will they be removed/changed?
still say max res or absorb would be more fitting 2-3% single element or something


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:55 pm 
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you forgot the oak nerf.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:38 pm 

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18: Bone Spirit damage increased by 10% on tier 5

bone orb no one likes? that sam hein uses? its speed is the problem not the dmg


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:01 pm 
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PmP wrote:
you forgot the oak nerf.

lol this guy

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:28 am 
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So any changes that could possibly bring back few builds back like fanat getting deadly, smite getting OIAS, maul getting deadly, more summons, more dmg to them... are held back because we need hotfix(hot means after a week of actual patch) not full time update.... but it's ok to give 6 points to dins, oak nerf and a little cb on wpns nobody uses/will use.
Blue, let's just merge most of these updates and see what happens. It will be a lot easier to fix next problems having a little better chars than all sucky ones. It's not like after 7months there will be some balance twist. Noobs can't get past normal diablo without rushing as they're not realizing how pdr/mdr/good gear planning is crucial. And yeah, damage is needed, not 1 more stats per lvl to vita.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:46 am 

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could we remove the drain effect from skull crafts?
I mean the caster crafts dont get something negative but melee crafts does?
Its kinda unfair and there's no real argument for why melee have to suffer more then casters. Seeing as casters are the strongest builds, they are the ones that should have the drain effect and not melee.
It would make the skull crafts a lot more "attractive" at least.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:16 am 
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Verb wrote:
could we remove the drain effect from skull crafts?
I mean the caster crafts dont get something negative but melee crafts does?
Its kinda unfair and there's no real argument for why melee have to suffer more then casters. Seeing as casters are the strongest builds, they are the ones that should have the drain effect and not melee.
It would make the skull crafts a lot more "attractive" at least.


I know I crafted some 39 ias gloves for my bowa that I couldn't use before hitting 99 because of how hard it is to get rep from anywhere. Soul Drainers have -life but most caster gear has rep on it somewhere. Eg Marrows Imm Flesh HHG

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:26 am 

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Zikur wrote:
PmP wrote:
you forgot the oak nerf.

lol this guy


Rofl :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:23 am 
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Baerk wrote:
The only server side changes one could do without updating client side that's completely bug report safe would be changes to the monsters stats and counter strength/existing item stats (as long as it doesn't modify save bit field lengths)/ and item drop rates.

Things such as brand new runewords would require a client side update.

Crappolla.
Guess I need to ramp up my understanding of D2SE and that puts a crimp on my time. Fawk. I have a week long development meeting all next week which will shoot a giant hole in my time too. Bleh!

Oh well. I appreciate the info.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:18 am 

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LockDown wrote:
Verb wrote:
could we remove the drain effect from skull crafts?
I mean the caster crafts dont get something negative but melee crafts does?
Its kinda unfair and there's no real argument for why melee have to suffer more then casters. Seeing as casters are the strongest builds, they are the ones that should have the drain effect and not melee.
It would make the skull crafts a lot more "attractive" at least.


I know I crafted some 39 ias gloves for my bowa that I couldn't use before hitting 99 because of how hard it is to get rep from anywhere. Soul Drainers have -life but most caster gear has rep on it somewhere. Eg Marrows Imm Flesh HHG


well I was comparing the crafts not just any random items against the skull crafts.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:03 am 
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could we add recipes to downgrade runes?
eld -> el el el

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:14 am 
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is that hero's charm suppose to be 2 skill?

Whats the consensus with counters vs spamable skills like FO?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:21 pm 
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Zikur wrote:
could we add recipes to downgrade runes?
eld -> el el el


Problem with that is you find A Cham and you have 4 Bers.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:45 pm 
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how many bers is a cham worth in trading?
ps when can we expect to contact duff and make pious'/kev's patch live?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Zikur wrote:
ps when can we expect to contact duff and make pious'/kev's patch live?


shouldent we vote on this over blues patch, are they being combined? or is this debatable?

I wanted to see sorce orbs get 2-3 range, and add ww orb with next reset.

Are the crafts being implemented?

If the boss resists are not being changed, what if my party does not want to use amp and im melee, do i just stand there looking pretty? Wernt the boss res changes to help nerf poison and buff phys and magic?

As for the necro spear/spirit change, why not just remove the +7 bone spear form marrows?

When you say lifetap drains life = lvl, is that their monster level or skill lvl?

removing the tank-ability of casters will cause more rushing in nm/hell imo as teams are hard to come by, even on SC.


Is valor going to have fire mastery as well as written or is that a typo?


I think the new area for soulmancer should be larger, as his main attack is hoarfrost, its best to stand against the wall to prevent multiple hits. - also is the grand charm suppose to be 2 skills? is gaining the hardest 2 levels, 7 hearts, getting to sammy, and killing this new boss worth 2 skills on a grand charm while killing sammy gives +3 skills and max life rep on a small charm?

it seems most of these changes are made towards end game, what are we doing for the mid/early game?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:41 pm 
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the charm has 2-3 skills like it is on the web page. Its not supposed to be a huge bonus (the hardest stuff shouldn't be required to make your char good but just something else. Even if the charm only has +1 hp, it's just an optional boss you can do as a final challenge once you finish everything else. Designed to be seriously hard and require team work. I made the level small on purpose so a tank is actually required to distract him and make him aim away from the ranged chars.

The crafts arent being implemented (by me anyway) but someone is free to take the files and do them if they like. I only had yesterday to do all of that and can't spare any more time on this.

Boss res wasn't changed because amp was reverted, even with the suggested bos res adjustments, amp is still required to deal any sygnificant damage.

lifetap drain is equal to the monsters level who casts it, not the skill level.

casters shouldn't be able to deal huge damage and tank, but i dont see casters losing any tankability as they don't actually get in to close range and the only think they are losing is some of the MDR available on items.

valor/geddon have no mastery anymore, a typo in runes.txt or a typo in a previous post?

are changes required in early/mid game? norm and NM is a complete joke atm IMO.

Any further changes to this set of files will have to be done by someone else though, I didn't really have the time to spare to do it in the first place. Pious sweet talked me into it :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:49 pm 
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In that case I guess I could handle editing in further changes then... The question though being will there actually be vote decision choosing whether its this patch or blue's.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:52 pm 
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Well, PMed Soulmancer about this, will see what he thinks(if). Can edit some gear too, if needed, have some free time till wednesday


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:05 pm 
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Can I sweet talk you next time :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:17 pm 
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To clarify, I didn't make this to "Overthrow" blue. Some friends were concerned he had quit so I made it so there was an alternative base for a patch that had a decent set of changes already included.

The only thing that concerns me is that the patch that will go live is supposed to be a community patch, but when a patch was made/suggested, one member of the community didn't like it so it so it was brushed aside and seems like it's just being ignored. Starting to question why the word "Community" is being used to refer to the next patch. The only "Community Patch" is one that is worked on by the community as a team. This seems to be happening here now so I was successful on that front at the very least.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:19 pm 

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I believe this discussion has been productive, and I thank Kevin for taking time to put this forward for the community. I encourage everyone to continue discussing the proposed changes. However, no one needs to spend time editing the files at this moment. I believe we need to find out first exactly what blue's course of action is, since his indecision is wasting our time and effort.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:23 pm 
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Pious wrote:
I believe we need to find out first exactly what blue's course of action is, since his indecision is wasting our time and effort.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:13 pm 
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I to appreciate the time you gave us even though you have your own mod to deal with and limited free time. (Btw tried out your mod liked what I saw from Pally)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:29 pm 

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Indeed. I was there that night Kevin spent making this patch. He has put a lot of time and effort into doing so and Pious assisted. I don't think their work should be in vain.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:34 pm 

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Steel wrote:
Well, PMed Soulmancer about this, will see what he thinks(if). Can edit some gear too, if needed, have some free time till wednesday


Mancer won't reply. Coulda told you that before you sent the PM. He only came back briefly for a few posts. He has no interest in making a decisive decision. He left HU in the communities hands.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:47 pm 
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LockDown wrote:
I to appreciate the time you gave us even though you have your own mod to deal with and limited free time. (Btw tried out your mod liked what I saw from Pally)


Pally is probs the best all rounder at the min. Dont go near the necro till I finish this update, he suuuuuux atm.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:01 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
LockDown wrote:
I to appreciate the time you gave us even though you have your own mod to deal with and limited free time. (Btw tried out your mod liked what I saw from Pally)


Pally is probs the best all rounder at the min. Dont go near the necro till I finish this update, he suuuuuux atm.


Only fiddled around with the Pally for about 6-7 hours :oops: and the sorc for 3-4 and the barb for a bit. Hydra sorcy was getting to be super fun lol.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:46 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Community Patch

Releasing a community patch was the biggest mistake of the last round. Going with the community feedback (adjustment to Amp dmg, psn builds, etc) was what caused the problems. Outside of a private, closed forum I see no value in community input on specifics.

Listening to the community to determine what the community wants has significant value. It works best if I then interpret that information in to a complete package that works for the WHOLE community.

Having a portion community actually make specific changes that they feel express what they want though is a failing move. Most gamers simply don't have that capacity and generate bad information.

I won't call this a community patch though. This is my interpretation of what will make HU a better and more enjoyable mod for the community. I don't expect all the players to understand all the components of it though.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Quote:
Listening to the community to determine what the community wants has significant value. It works best if I then interpret that information in to a complete package that works for the WHOLE community.


Your interpritation of oak + paladin stats was way off though, i think it would be wise to try to find a better solution to those problems than pushing something nobody wants on everybody.

The portion of the community who are taking action are well versed in d2 mechanics and should be taken seriously.

It dosen't have to be a community built patch. In the end people will choose if they are happy with it or not and can then decide if they want to play it. With D3 around the corner, this may be the last patch that has a high player base. Once d3 is out, 50% will be gone, leaving only those who have played here from the beggining. If you alienate them, they won't be here anymore either. It's the people who have been here through thick and thin that will keep this mod alive in the future.

I'm not too concerned with completely new players who disagree as only 1 in 100 new players will actually stick with the mod for multiple years. My concerns are that after many many long time players disagree with a change, it is still going through. It may turn out fine, we'll have to wait and see. If it turns out bad though, will people stick around for another 7 months playing a mod they don't enjoy or agree with?

I think this patch needs to be a patch that brings back the people, not drive them away.

Sure a reset may bring many new faces, but those faces won't still be here when D3 comes out.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:53 pm 

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Is a reset incoming?


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:18 pm 
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this is pathetic

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:28 pm 

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Where have you guys been? 15 page long suggestion thread regarding Oak Nerf and Blue still stands on his position. He was proven wrong regarding 6 stat Paladins and he still stands on that decision.

You think your going to compromise with him on a community patch or get him to change six stat pals and the oak nerf? He doesn't give a shit that most the poll numbers are against him. He isn't going to compromise on a single thing, period.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:13 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE7r0yw4xoY
key part is at 3:10

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:56 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Community Patch

Releasing a community patch was the biggest mistake of the last round. Going with the community feedback (adjustment to Amp dmg, psn builds, etc) was what caused the problems. Outside of a private, closed forum I see no value in community input on specifics.


You're completely right Blue. Whoever chose those incomplete, untested suggestions that were thrown around by the development team and just implemented them into mod must have not have any idea of what he was doing.
To boot, the majority of those threads had been dead and stale for months before someone happened upon them, it would've been ludicrous and completely ignorant to just choose them and implement them into the mod with impunity. I can't imagine who would make such a terrible blunder.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:25 am 
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Zikur wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE7r0yw4xoY
key part is at 3:10


I totally forgot about the part where he said
'if obama had a bacon sandwich tomorrow the republicans would ban bacon'. i laughed and laughed...and i am a conservative (not a republican...they aren't conservative either).

Sorry to derail...so wtf is going on anyway with this stuff? Gone all day and looks like things started to boil a bit.

I have some time this weekend to work on some things. I could implement the crafting stuff from Blue's list that was well received, and prolly some other things as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:43 am 
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What's the consensus on bringing back the psn cloud to necro's?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:26 am 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Boss res wasn't changed because amp was reverted, even with the suggested bos res adjustments, amp is still required to deal any sygnificant damage.

valor/geddon have no mastery anymore, a typo in runes.txt or a typo in a previous post?

are changes required in early/mid game? norm and NM is a complete joke atm IMO.


what about the magic and psn boss res changes? also id rather be able to do non-significant damage vs have to have amp damage. I dont think ill ever see a party full of melee characters running around and i dont wanna hope that the party wants to use amp.

in the OP valor and geddon both have 50% fire mastery, insteada 50 fire and 50 cold mastery. was this a type0 or is valor going to have 50 fire mastery too?

as for soulmancer, im just saying if you stand on the edge of the map, you avoid tons of damage. thought making the map larger would solve this problem.

early/mid game changes should be made to increase the difficulty. the game is pretty easy up to act 4 hell imo.

I think this community talk is BS as the community is most likely playing on the realm and not shitting their opinion on these threads. the community is based on old players and new. and the community can never agree on the same thing. thats why we have one person who makes decisions and tells everyone else to STFU. isnt that why we have blue?

some people in the community who havent really posted here. (sorry if i mentioned you and ur here, dident really check all of these names)

diablos646
overkill
frozenseven
hftown
raqib
rajawal1
zerum
asteroth
gccanada
bts
ida_jones
sweetfel
tase
titaniumbaby
++++ many more.

a small group of HC players are not the community.

IMO we shoulda had blues patch live 1 month ago. but all these people crying over non game breaking changes has stopped the progression of this mod.

But thats ok, cuz now they are getting what they want. soon everone is going to run around with melee characters who do tons of damage, tank, life leech and life tap, and run around in god mode like before. which is why melee was nerfed in the first place.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:39 am 
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Zikur wrote:
What's the consensus on bringing back the psn cloud to necro's?
Do you have any psn dmg values across the game? Psn cloud was too good when they had tele, high pierce, 70%lr, 250k psn dmg easily with just full trang/dweb and later tons of skillers/rnb.
Quote:
in the OP valor and geddon both have 50% fire mastery, insteada 50 fire and 50 cold mastery. was this a type0 or is valor going to have 50 fire mastery too?
Probably typo, each should have only one 50%
Quote:
what about the magic and psn boss res changes? also id rather be able to do non-significant damage vs have to have amp damage. I dont think ill ever see a party full of melee characters running around and i dont wanna hope that the party wants to use amp.

1)magic could go lower, mainly because there will be only 3 chars that use magic dmg Hammerdins,bonenecs,mentalsins. Magic is the only source of damage(other than phys ofc) that can't benefit from mastery, overall pierce values are lower than ele sources while bosses have the same res on all of these. Well, at least abs should be toned down.
2)It worked well last patch, Soulmancer added many many good stuff with amp charges/on hit so amp was always present on boss fights. Can't have both high amp and bosses with 50% phys res. If they have 95% phys res then you'll need dec/amp anyway. Could just adjust amp formula to go high early - like 4% per 1 soft point then 1% per hard/2soft. Easily 40% amp but extra 25 from maxed nec, something like that.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:56 am 
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Quote:
also id rather be able to do non-significant damage vs have to have amp damage.

Quote:
soon everone is going to run around with melee characters who do tons of damage, tank, life leech and life tap, and run around in god mode like before. which is why melee was nerfed in the first place.


Unlike now when poison chars and casters can run around dealing tons of damage at a distance and relative safety i suppose?

they cant run around with lifetap all the time cos they have bosses phys resist to contend with still.

Quote:
a small group of HC players are not the community.


Nobody said it was, and nobody said you have to use this as a base. Maybe you should relax a little bit.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:03 am 
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PmP wrote:

diablos646
overkill
frozenseven
hftown
raqib
rajawal1
zerum
asteroth
gcanada
bts
ida_jones
sweetfel
tase
titaniumbaby
++++ many more.


Some of that list (bolded) has spoken out about the current state of affairs in one way or another. Half of them are relatively new to HU and really have no way of knowing what it was like before this patch.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:04 am 
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PmP wrote:
some people in the community who havent really posted here. (sorry if i mentioned you and ur here, dident really check all of these names)

diablos646
overkill
frozenseven
hftown
raqib
rajawal1
zerum
asteroth
gccanada
bts
ida_jones
sweetfel
tase
titaniumbaby
++++ many more.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:08 am 
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lmao! IIRC duff said to pm him in future cos he dont always check the forums.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:08 am 
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I did a week ago :(


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:09 am 
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Oh dear. :oops:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:29 am 
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Lol :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:20 am 

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PmP wrote:
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Boss res wasn't changed because amp was reverted, even with the suggested bos res adjustments, amp is still required to deal any sygnificant damage.

valor/geddon have no mastery anymore, a typo in runes.txt or a typo in a previous post?

are changes required in early/mid game? norm and NM is a complete joke atm IMO.


what about the magic and psn boss res changes? also id rather be able to do non-significant damage vs have to have amp damage. I dont think ill ever see a party full of melee characters running around and i dont wanna hope that the party wants to use amp.

in the OP valor and geddon both have 50% fire mastery, insteada 50 fire and 50 cold mastery. was this a type0 or is valor going to have 50 fire mastery too?

as for soulmancer, im just saying if you stand on the edge of the map, you avoid tons of damage. thought making the map larger would solve this problem.

early/mid game changes should be made to increase the difficulty. the game is pretty easy up to act 4 hell imo.

I think this community talk is BS as the community is most likely playing on the realm and not shitting their opinion on these threads. the community is based on old players and new. and the community can never agree on the same thing. thats why we have one person who makes decisions and tells everyone else to STFU. isnt that why we have blue?

some people in the community who havent really posted here. (sorry if i mentioned you and ur here, dident really check all of these names)

diablos646
overkill
frozenseven
hftown
raqib
rajawal1
zerum
asteroth
gccanadabts
ida_jones
sweetfel
tase
titaniumbaby
++++ many more.

a small group of HC players are not the community.

IMO we shoulda had blues patch live 1 month ago. but all these people crying over non game breaking changes has stopped the progression of this mod.

But thats ok, cuz now they are getting what they want. soon everone is going to run around with melee characters who do tons of damage, tank, life leech and life tap, and run around in god mode like before. which is why melee was nerfed in the first place.



I would just like to clarify that I did post here. I gave my view (as a tele playing, non-shift cold-wind druid) as to what an oak nerf would do to his playability afer an oak nerf/ bump to lycan. I also stated that I believed Abominae and Steel described my thoughts on it very clearly, and supported there statements which were much more in-depth than mine could/ was ever going to be.

I basically got slammed by Blue (after he asked the community for opinions). Like many of the others around here. Which is fine, he is the person that was left in charge of the modding, has been playing HU much longer, and should have a much more clear idea as to the direction that it should take. I would hope.

I actually read all of the debates on here, and one thing is very clear. The people who REALLY know this game (pure-rage/steel/abominae/Kramuti/pious) are the ones who make the in depth and really constructive arguements. They are the ones that really know the numbers behind this game and basically argue it for the community.

Im not trying to start a beef here or something PmP, but the posts you have made would be very similar to mine if I were to be a more active poster on the forums. Not very educated or numbers based like theres which are backed up with reasoning almost every time, not simply "yes oak nerf, you dont need it."

Obviously posts like this dont really help the people in charge in making a decision, it doesnt really give them anything to go off of like the people who have been playing this mod for multiple seasons and have a better working knowledge of whats going on and what should go on.

Thats why so many people have been dis-satisfied with Blue. Not because he ignores everybody (like he did me), but because he seems to be ignoring the people who really have a clear understanding of this mod and whose opinions should be truly valued. Having random people without that really deep understanding of the game (like yours and mine) try to persuade the people who are in charge when there are people in the community much more qualified then us for voicing opinions doesnt make sense to me.

I really enjoy HU. I am very interested and excited to see it go in a positive direction. I have met many great people, and enjoy an awesome player base of people that I game with almost daily when time permits.

That doesnt mean I dont have opinions or ideas on where it should go. But until I play this mod through and through, with multiple characters/builds and not just the cookie cutter ones that are prevelant at this time, I and those like us shouldnt be the ones to push this mod in one direction or another.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:47 am 
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Psn Cloud is needed... My psn striker atm has over 16k ar with metal grid and he still can't hit shit even tried all dex gear still no go..
And with no tele the cloud isn't as nearly as bad as it was..

As for the me not posting on this thread much.. Reason is i'm not here to fight with people..
I said many times already about the oak nerf and pally stat bullshit...Its clearly one of the stupidest ideas I ever seen..
Blue why do you still push this on us all when we don't want this kinda change..Sad all your doing is splitting the community in half just like what happened with aftermath...Well with that said..Those changes with oak and the pally are the ones that stand out the most as being silly the rest seem okay...


Kev do you have a link with the Dload with your mod would love to check it out.. And thx for you hard work m8 .. Sit back and smoke a big fatty 8-)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:42 pm 
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Where's my corpse explosion cooldown fix?? :evil:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:48 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:17 pm 
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I dont have any numbers on psn strike. From what I understand they have the highest listed damage right now of all the psn builds. i see no reason why it cant be scaled closer to plauge since they are both 60 pt builds. also with loss of spam blades they shouldn't be a one man team but i cant say for sure.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:28 pm 

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blinky99 wrote:
18: Bone Spirit damage increased by 10% on tier 5

bone orb no one likes? that sam hein uses? its speed is the problem not the dmg

" new boss" cant something more creative be done other than using the 7 hearts, they are a pain to get as it is.

what about shard procs will they be removed/changed?
still say max res or absorb would be more fitting 2-3% single element or something


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:41 pm 

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Well it's the 7 hearts or kevin suggested the five shards previously. In any case.. I do agree that seems a bit harsh but I'm willing to be ok with it because killing the 101 boss is more of a challenge/reward than it is just a reward. The charm isn't even that great imo. GC +2-3 even Hell Samhain SC = +3. It's more of a brag thing imo to kill him.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:47 pm 
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Zikur wrote:
I dont have any numbers on psn strike. From what I understand they have the highest listed damage right now of all the psn builds. i see no reason why it cant be scaled closer to plauge since they are both 60 pt builds. also with loss of spam blades they shouldn't be a one man team but i cant say for sure.



428k Perfect Gear Wise.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:48 pm 
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There are only like 3 chars 101lvl?

Getting Hearts is kinda hard and only one player can get reward then maybe 3 charges always on key?
Still hearts... they give you something neat, shards could be better.

As for proc - can be removed. Abs is too much for +1 skill sc that everyone actually has and always will use so there's just free abs. +2-3 stats maybe? Like free 15 when perfs.

Shard drop chance will be increased ofc??


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:02 pm 

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Steel wrote:
As for proc - can be removed. Abs is too much for +1 skill sc that everyone actually has and always will use so there's just free abs. +2-3 stats maybe? Like free 15 when perfs.

Shard drop chance will be increased ofc??
Here's another idea, if it's not overly difficult. Give Andy shard 3-5% all res, Duri shard 3-5 stats, mehpi shard 1-3% sorb, Diablo shard 1-3% dr and Baal 5-7 stats. In this manner they give something more useful than procs, without a huge impact across the board.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:05 pm 

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when you say revert amp to previous lvls, how much is that? I didnt play last season so I have no idea what kind of lvls they are.

Would it be possible to get that Lacerator buff in to the patch? buff to 450% ed

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:16 pm 
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Verb wrote:
when you say revert amp to previous lvls, how much is that? I didnt play last season so I have no idea what kind of lvls they are.

Would it be possible to get that Lacerator buff in to the patch? buff to 450% ed


From what Kev/Pious told me last night:
1 point Amplify Damage should be ~65% physical pierce when you're fully geared.
The cap on Amplify Damage will be 75%.


Also, taken from Kev's wishlist in another thread:
34: Cobra strike changed - passive -50% + 10% def bonus per level and 1% life/mana steal per level
38: blessed hammer ignores undeads resistances
38: FotH ignores demons resistances

Would love to see these implemented. It would be a major boon to Hammer/FoHdins while stopping them from completely dominating every boss in the game. It also gives FoH a very nice, specific function. When combined with it's Undead clearing, it should make the skill something you can viably focus on.

Also, there's been talk about this before, but I'd like to bring it up again. At some point, someone suggested adding 1/4 Weapon Damage to Shockwave. If that can be implemented, it would turn Shock Wave into a pretty cool build with some fun options to tinker with.
For reference:
Shock Wave @ Level 50: 15.2k-17.9k

With 1/4 weapon damage, you'll be adding ~10k-25k depending on whether you go pure vita or pure strength. Opens up a hybrid build option for Maul Druids, as well as buffing anyone who wants to make a pure Shock Wave Druid.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:35 pm 
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LockDown wrote:
428k Perfect Gear Wise.

is that this season?
just went back and checked the post i got numbers from and realized steel was talking about last ladder :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:43 pm 

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okey but thats for necros, what about a lvl 1 amp that your get from procs? at how much does amp start with?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:08 pm 

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lvl 1 amp is 32% and lvl 20 amp is 67%. skills into amp begin to diminish heavily after that as the cap is roughly 75%.

most of the coders will be softcore players with the exception of purerage-dod. steel, kramuti, and baerk are all veteran-sc players. since i don't have any coding knowledge i will just be pushing along the effort.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:10 pm 
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Zikur wrote:
LockDown wrote:
428k Perfect Gear Wise.

is that this season?
just went back and checked the post i got numbers from and realized steel was talking about last ladder :roll:

Last season psn necs had 650k with full gcs. Could go higher ! with different gear that trang but there wasnt really need to. Lr 70% and more pierce on full trang (HolyGhost had alone 120 piere iirc).
I made a psn nec for a test last ladder, made him to 92lvl with 3 or 4 gcs, dweb + trang + 16 or less/more psn boots... had 270k per 7.5sec. Could solo every boss in game, only meph was harder because his bone attacks/hurricane.

Now? full trang and any boots + dweb = 160k dmg with 15%/-15%pierce from full trang, -15%(perf) dweb and 50% lr. Add facets, carrion rings/necs 10% and you'll get 210k. Switch to griffons, templar boneflame/darkforge etc etc and you'll have hard time getting high def/ar and getting crushed by everything what you want to hit.
Edit: viewtopic.php?p=32257#p32257 here and below/next page you can get numbers I had in mind then.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:22 pm 

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i don't see a problem with returning the cloud to psn strike. the nerfs to gear and lr have already done a number on psn necs as is. anyone with objections give your arguments. otherwise we can add it to the list.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:39 pm 

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Abominae wrote:
Verb wrote:
when you say revert amp to previous lvls, how much is that? I didnt play last season so I have no idea what kind of lvls they are.

Would it be possible to get that Lacerator buff in to the patch? buff to 450% ed


From what Kev/Pious told me last night:
1 point Amplify Damage should be ~65% physical pierce when you're fully geared.
The cap on Amplify Damage will be 75%.


Also, taken from Kev's wishlist in another thread:
34: Cobra strike changed - passive -50% + 10% def bonus per level and 1% life/mana steal per level
38: blessed hammer ignores undeads resistances
38: FotH ignores demons resistances

Would love to see these implemented. It would be a major boon to Hammer/FoHdins while stopping them from completely dominating every boss in the game. It also gives FoH a very nice, specific function. When combined with it's Undead clearing, it should make the skill something you can viably focus on.

Also, there's been talk about this before, but I'd like to bring it up again. At some point, someone suggested adding 1/4 Weapon Damage to Shockwave. If that can be implemented, it would turn Shock Wave into a pretty cool build with some fun options to tinker with.
For reference:
Shock Wave @ Level 50: 15.2k-17.9k

With 1/4 weapon damage, you'll be adding ~10k-25k depending on whether you go pure vita or pure strength. Opens up a hybrid build option for Maul Druids, as well as buffing anyone who wants to make a pure Shock Wave Druid.


Going to have throw support this way regarding these changes. Completely agree with Zac. FoH/Hammerdins need some sort of buff. This would help a lot. It may bring them back to playability in decent numbers on the realm.

Shockwave druids as well need some form of a buff. I've hardly ever seen one. Also Mindsins should be buffed in some form or another. These are just a few builds that need some serious attention if they ever going to be playable. The post Zac did on mindsins goes more into detail but basically the damage is just too low. They aren't really good at doing anything. Can't kill bosses and PH on trash? They should be decent against bosses.

The 1/4th weapon damage idea seems like a great idea to buff SW druids. What are other peoples thoughts? I could go more in depth but I feel I'm stating what is obvious here. All builds with hardly any playability.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:43 pm 

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Btw something to add to the list that I didn't see is removing the soulshard procs on andy/dury/meph/dia/baal. Is that going to be done?

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:50 pm 

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Steel wrote:
Zikur wrote:
LockDown wrote:
428k Perfect Gear Wise.

is that this season?
just went back and checked the post i got numbers from and realized steel was talking about last ladder :roll:

Last season psn necs had 650k with full gcs. Could go higher ! with different gear that trang but there wasnt really need to. Lr 70% and more pierce on full trang (HolyGhost had alone 120 piere iirc).
I made a psn nec for a test last ladder, made him to 92lvl with 3 or 4 gcs, dweb + trang + 16 or less/more psn boots... had 270k per 7.5sec. Could solo every boss in game, only meph was harder because his bone attacks/hurricane.

Now? full trang and any boots + dweb = 160k dmg with 15%/-15%pierce from full trang, -15%(perf) dweb and 50% lr. Add facets, carrion rings/necs 10% and you'll get 210k. Switch to griffons, templar boneflame/darkforge etc etc and you'll have hard time getting high def/ar and getting crushed by everything what you want to hit.
Edit: viewtopic.php?p=32257#p32257 here and below/next page you can get numbers I had in mind then.


Aren't psn necros still the highest form of poison damage in the game? I thought the reason the cloud was removed was because everyone felt psn necs were op but with Lr going back to being 1pted is this going to be Javaon dejavu? Without touching poison nec damage, adding back the cloud and reducing LR to 1pt it seems as if poison necs are going to be OP as they once were.

As far as getting ar.. how much ar are you talking about? You realize that rabies druid can roll around with very low ar. You only need to hit once. You don't need 20-30k ar on a psn character.

Rather than add the cloud back to POISON necros there are several other ways to 'buff' them. Otherwise.. my assumption is javazon dejavu.

Any arguments?

Err.. wait. Lr isn't going back to being 1 pted. But regardless I still think the cloud may be a bad idea.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:55 pm 

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should we still consider a reduction in magic absorb on the boss charm to help the magic -based builds?


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:55 pm 
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I'm currently unsure of psn nec's damage but lockdown posted 428k perf gear. I don't see anywhere that LR is being restored to 1 pt status. Rabies druids get ar boost from shifted form + rabies i know nec's have bone armour but im not sure of the comparison in total %, They also had blades/tele on trangs before.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:05 pm 

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just for the record lr will not be changed. u will still need to max it if you want a good lr.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:07 pm 
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Shockwave use fcr, right? 25k with like 30%fcr still isn't impressive.
What will be the point of this build anyway? Hybrid of wc barbs and melee chars? something to clear trash faster? Clearly this works only in SS form, has range about wc and stuns. Going pure caster gear you'll do less dps than WC barbs and will have to use 1h wpn/shield to get 10frames per cast... Going puremaul 2h you'll have a good wpn vs chargers/immuns(stun these bloody bees in a3) but overall dps will be low. Weird hybrid. How damage looks early game. It's 40 point build, these are the worst to balance - rabies.

Quote:
Aren't psn necros still the highest form of poison damage in the game? I thought the reason the cloud was removed was because everyone felt psn necs were op but with Lr going back to being 1pted is this going to be Javaon dejavu?
Now it's not. Number wise maybe. fully geared plague zons do 450k - let's say 400 - and fully geared psn nec 430 - let's say 350 with non perf gear. And you have 0 lifebuffs and actually have to get close 2-3 range to deal damage. I can easily say you'll be doing 40% of actual plague zons because that hit and run issue. Rabies dru have it better too, higher ar, wolf form with the best fhr in game, 2 lifebuffs, damage almost the same.Cloud was removed because trang had tele, max res, good +skills, many free sockets(now you want to use diamonds/rubies in sockets). Before you got trang and/or skillers build was WELL balanced...

Poison shouldn't be threaten as all the evil here. Nothing wrong with having 200k psn on hell! It's direct damage not like plague/rabies dealing with entire screen.
Lr isn't going to be 1pt skill wonder ever. There is too much pierce to allow that.
Quote:
I'm currently unsure of psn nec's damage but lockdown posted 428k perf gear.
He did it funky way(hero editor), but I can say that Fleever's psn nec hit around 420 after we got nec heart for him. He's using psn nova on bosses...


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:19 pm 

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+1 on pious regarding magic abs reduction on bosses in response to Zikur.

Maybe my math is incorrect then. I don't know here's what I came up with.

Gear

Deaths web

+8

Griffon

+3

Templars

+3

Crafted amulet

+2

Dforce

+5

Two rings/+1 boots/Souldrainer
+5

+11 charms

= total +37 skills = L57 PSN dagger = @216,000 damage

%psn damage =

Perf griffon = 36%
Perf temp = 24%
Easily rollable = +2 amulet 14%
2x 10% rings = 20%
20 belt = 20%
Darkforce = 18%

= 132%

= 501,120 damage

Someone verify the math or let me know if I'm wrong. That's in perf gear.

Now the total pierce in perf gear is

-18% Griff
-40% Templar
-27% Dweb
-28% Darkforce
-20% Belt
-55% Lr
Whats max LR? Think it's 55ish.

= 188% pierce.

If you can justify adding the cloud back to the poison necro then you can probably get Blue to come back. Or add 10 stat paladins and maybe nerf oak to 1%.

Based on those numbers possibly with a little variable thrown in once everything is said and done in the next patch.. It doesn't make any logical sense to add the cloud back to the psn necro. Anyone who would disagree is completely unreasonable. Those numbers are by proof enough.

The only thing is if my numbers are wrong. I don't know. I've been wrong before so I'm not going to say I'm 100% right. Which is why I'm asking for a double check. I think it seems right though.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:22 pm 
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Gig is this you can have all the dmg in the psn striker you want if you can't hit that dmg is worthless... Then your just another trash killer with Nova...

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:22 pm 

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the numbers are still a bit high on psn strike yes. what if we nerfed the numbers a bit on psn strike but brought the cloud back? right now its pretty bad in spite of huge numbers from what i hear.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Why focus on 99lvl necs? If armg rw was 99lvl weapon noone would give a fuck. Can you do the math for 90lvl nec? or 85?

500k psn dmg is around 60k dps.
Meteo does 70k per hit. Firestorm 200-250k DPS?(3snaked and 3 per sec lasting 16 frames). Blizzard 45k per cast(who knows how many hits), lightning traps 1-59k x 5...
Plague zons before 95lvl AREN'T dmg wise OP. They're just too good because they throw "poison strike" and do damage regardless ele abs... I still have 120k plague zon that killed hell baal... 2nd this ladder.

Could lower tier 5 as other psn chars and bring cloud back!

Btw. Lee is a conspiracy theorist.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:40 pm 

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@Pious regarding Poison necs.

Well it sounds like the consensus from Steel is that PSN necs have an AR problem.

The ar problem can be addressed without adding the cloud back.

You can add flat ar to PSN strike or a higher AR bonus. You could give it a 1% life buff per level or other defensive mods which would allow the psn necro to get in a bosses face in melee range. So buffing psn strike on that aspect may be the route to go.

Based on Kevins psn reduction changes stating that pierce won't negate poison reduction on bosses anymore I believe the above route is probably best. It will require the psn nec to constantly in some form or way be in a bosses face to effectively kill it.

The cloud would be over kill. The damage is still high anyway though. I'd be afraid of how deadly a psn necro could be in a party with maxed bone armor bo/oak and the cloud added back.

Interesting discussion though.. I'd be interested to hear other opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:42 pm 

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yea i took a look at my zon on sp and the tier nerf did a number on her. if we did a nerf to strike that is similar but not quite as harsh i think we can handle psn strike. it is only a single target skill after all lee. lets not forget rabies is aoe, psn strike is ranged, and firestorm ofc no counters.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:44 pm 
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No need cloud back... Just ar boost I agree. You'll still have to deal with bosses block tho. And will never be allowed to run all facets gear. It's kind of cool to have high psn damage but some kind of risk when applying it... being impossible because you need 32k ar for hell diablo... isn't cool.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:44 pm 

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Steel wrote:
Why focus on 99lvl necs? If armg rw was 99lvl weapon noone would give a fuck. Can you do the math for 90lvl nec? or 85?

500k psn dmg is around 60k dps.
Meteo does 70k per hit. Firestorm 200-250k DPS?(3snaked and 3 per sec lasting 16 frames). Blizzard 45k per cast(who knows how many hits), lightning traps 1-59k x 5...
Plague zons before 95lvl AREN'T dmg wise OP. They're just too good because they throw "poison strike" and do damage regardless ele abs... I still have 120k plague zon that killed hell baal... 2nd this ladder.

Could lower tier 5 as other psn chars and bring cloud back!

Btw. Lee is a conspiracy theorist.


I'm a conpiracy theorist? I just gave you the numbers smartass. Do them yourself.

You stated the perf gear on a psn nec and were completely wrong. Throwing out little insults like calling me a 'conspiracy theorist' while I'm simply correcting where you were wrong is a tad bit childish don't ya think?

I simply stated obvious numbers.

And what about Javaons before 95? I didn't hear anyone bitching about Javaons being nerfed twinked would hurt them before 95. All the discussion was regarding Javas being OP which required them to be nerfed! If javazons are treated that way why the fuck would a psn necro be treated differently?

Fact is it's the highest PSN damage in game with the highest pierce. Btw keep the little insults to yourself next time.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:49 pm 

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Pious wrote:
yea i took a look at my zon on sp and the tier nerf did a number on her. if we did a nerf to strike that is similar but not quite as harsh i think we can handle psn strike. it is only a single target skill after all lee. lets not forget rabies is aoe, psn strike is ranged, and firestorm ofc no counters.


Yeah it is a single target skill. I do realize that. They also get the highest pierce though and the numbers are pretty high. Javazons and Rabies are getting psn re-work as well so a similar nerf is probably the best solution and adding the cloud back. Worst to worst.. could test it in SP before the patch is released.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:58 pm 
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Lee wrote:
+1 on pious regarding magic abs reduction on bosses in response to Zikur.

Maybe my math is incorrect then. I don't know here's what I came up with.

Gear

Deaths web

+8

Griffon

+3

Templars

+3

Crafted amulet

+2

Dforce

+5

Two rings/+1 boots/Souldrainer
+5

+11 charms

= total +37 skills = L57 PSN dagger = @216,000 damage

%psn damage =

Perf griffon = 36%
Perf temp = 24%
Easily rollable = +2 amulet 14%
2x 10% rings = 20%
20 belt = 20%
Darkforce = 18%

= 132%

= 501,120 damage

Someone verify the math or let me know if I'm wrong. That's in perf gear.

Now the total pierce in perf gear is

-18% Griff
-40% Templar
-27% Dweb
-28% Darkforce
-20% Belt
-55% Lr
Whats max LR? Think it's 55ish.

= 188% pierce.


I only tested it at 104% Psn Damage Re -ran with what you gave it's 484-486k. Poison Mastery is funky math wise. Also running test with a 3 PnB 14 Ammy.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:01 pm 

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lvl 1 amp is 32% okey.

I think I read somewhere that with the returning numbers of amp you wont be lowering the phy resistances of the bosses and the charms, is this true? So baal in hell will have 145%, diablo 130%, meph 130% and so on. So if you dont have access to a necro you wont be able to break the immunity of baal and you'll do a whopping 2% damage on meph and diablo.

So if you dont lower the resistance somewhere, then melee is still gona suck cook in hell...if you dont have a necro that is.

But I cant find the post saying that you wont be lowering the res so I could be wrong, so can someone confirm this?

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:03 pm 
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I believe with CB gone we can go 95% phys router so you can choose - decrep or amp. Decrep reduces dmg and speed also, while amp only phys res. 130% = amp or bust.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:03 pm 

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@LockDown ahh really. Is it that funky? Didn't know.. that's interesting.. Hm. With a +3 psn n bone it'd probably be closer to 500k anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:52 pm 
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Lee wrote:
@LockDown ahh really. Is it that funky? Didn't know.. that's interesting.. Hm. With a +3 psn n bone it'd probably be closer to 500k anyway.


That was with the 3 PnB sorry wasn't clear.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:54 pm 

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Yeah well that's weird. Anyway Pious said something about nerfing the dmg a little and bringing back the cloud so that may be the ideal route atm.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:55 pm 

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Steel wrote:
I believe with CB gone we can go 95% phys router so you can choose - decrep or amp. Decrep reduces dmg and speed also, while amp only phys res. 130% = amp or bust.


130% amp? Isn't that really high?

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:25 pm 
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actual diablo phys res is 130... only amp can break it... amp or bust...


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:23 pm 

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we're looking at 99% physical resist bosses in hell instead of 130+. amp will be changed accordingly to cap at 60% and start at 20%. Baerk or Steel will provide the exact formula. decreptify will remain unchanged at 25%.

we may buff iron maiden on diablo/baal to hurt ranged chars also. other than that IM will continue to sting.

there will also be nerfs across the board to % elemental skill damage from gear. we're going to keep the elemental tiers of 1.3a for damage so your average untwinked character will remain the same. this will however affect your lvl 99 powerhouse chars. unfortunately 1.3a gave out way too many % skill dmg buffs from gear that were not present in 1.21z. We are going to correct that.

expect some boss buffs. we haven't decided on what yet, but we want to add some spice.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:24 pm 

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Suggested proposal by someone else but i'm just adding it here. Increase the min spawn. Ss = double the life to decrease the ss abuse? Someone suggested in Abominaes thread. I thought I'd throw it out here. Any thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:25 pm 

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increasing the single spawn to 3 is a great idea. i'll definitely sign on to that.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:31 pm 
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i agree with the number three.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:51 pm 
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I wouldn't be opposed to it. Today me and Steel ran A1-A3 in a party and people asked "Can we do xxxx?" as would we be able to we didn't single spawn in fact we 7 spawned Dury and did fine the focus on single spawn is with less experience or less savvy players.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:27 pm 
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already +1'd the 3spawn idea in the other thread
givin it a +1 here as well

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:15 pm 

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As far as nerfing ele gear all around in the next patch. How much are you talking about nerfing? Hows that going to compare with Melees getting buffed? I thought everyone complained that Melees raped everything in 1.21z and needed nerfed. Isn't that what brought about so many harsh changes to them?

Adding DS/CB in addition to Blues 1.3a stre buff while buffing amp and nerfing boss phys resists seems like it could be a huge buff and an im nerf on top of that. I just don't want to see history repeat itself and melees raping everything again while casters sit on the side and watch. Or everyone rolling melee chars all day. If you take the time to think about all the changes I list and compile the added effects together.. well the result is is technically melees being brought back to what they were on Mancer's last patch.

Isn't there a difference between 130% phys res verse 99%?

I.e. will a 60% amp drop 130% to 70% or not?

Don't take what I say wrong. I'm just promoting a little thought into this. Any thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:47 pm 
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Incoming voice of reason.

Lets not get carried away with blanket changes again, a blanket change to amp was required this time, but a change to all sources of % ele damage? Some less used builds need it just to be viable.

Lets focus on the offending builds rather the offending damage type.

Ie, pois jav is an offending build, fixing it by glabaly nerfing % pois damage/pirce, would have completely destroyed the venom sin (who is walking a tight rope atm).

You dont want to have to nerf all % skill damage then go back and buff all the builds that are now underpowered.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:18 pm 

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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Incoming voice of reason.

Lets not get carried away with blanket changes again, a blanket change to amp was required this time, but a change to all sources of % ele damage? Some less used builds need it just to be viable.

Lets focus on the offending builds rather the offending damage type.

Ie, pois jav is an offending build, fixing it by glabaly nerfing % pois damage/pirce, would have completely destroyed the venom sin (who is walking a tight rope atm).

You dont want to have to nerf all % skill damage then go back and buff all the builds that are now underpowered.


That's kind of what I was getting at.

I just don't want to see the same cycle repeated again. Melees nerfed casters buffed. Casters nerfed melees buffed.

People were complaining that melees were op in mancers last patch. Then Blue just stampeded on them. Instead of fixing melees accordingly I think the changes are over hauling them to become too powerful. Not only tank every boss in the game but most likely start soloing again and able to kill bosses again.

While casters end up under played and everyone rolls melees. You have to kind of balance here. I'm just afraid the buffs to melee may be over extreme.

Things I suggest

Removing Blues stre % bonus. Adjusting amp accordingly and not touching boss resist.

I.e. amp capped at 75% w/o boss resist being touched was perfectly fine. No need to nerf boss resists as it will encourage melee rapage again..

Er.. after I read your reply Kevin that wasn't what I was getting at but it's another good point kind of in the same direction.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:37 pm 

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These are the changes on elemental gear.
-griffons diadem
changed from 12-18% elemental skill damage to 8-14% elemental skill damage.

-topaz crafts
-ring - changed from 3-6%, 4-8% and 5-10% to 3-4%, 5-6%, and 7-8% skill dmg
-helm/belt/boots/glove - changed from 6-12%, 8-16%, and 10-20% pierce/skill dmg to 3-4%, 5-8%, and 9-12% pierce/skill dmg

-rainbow facet cold,fire,lit,poison
skill% dmg reduced from 3-6% to 2-3%. pierce values remain the same.

-tal,ral,ort,thul reduced from 8% skill damage in weapons to 5% skill dmg.

this will mostly affect characters level 85+, and only those that are well equipped.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:37 pm 

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UPDATE: After talking to Baerk/Pious I'll hold my melee thoughts to the side. I trust what they are doing. Seems like they are headed in the right direction. Worst to worst melee could be readjusted before a reset.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:44 pm 
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Pious wrote:
increasing the single spawn to 3 is a great idea. i'll definitely sign on to that.

For what possible purpose would you gain by increasing monster hitpoints? Making things take longer? Forcing people to stare at the screen longer? Having monsters die in 2 hits rather than 1?

There is ZERO value to it and serious consequences to rookie players by doing it. Do you even listen to ANYONE outside of the small circle of bozos on this forum? Do you pay attention at all to what people on the realm do? Apparently not, so let me clue you in:

step 1 - single spawn
step 2 - kill the boss

Why? Because people hate for fights to go on for so long when it is clear they can actually beat the boss. They want to see either one of two options:

1 - whoa, that boss kicked my ass! I am so not ready for this
2 - ya bitch, that's right I'm a big bad ass

The option of "holy fuck, will this boss just die already!" is extremely down the fun list. That is what will happen for the mid level players who don't farm the power gear and just want to have fun. Bumping it to a 3 person spawn though is just going to making things duller for people.

And you all say that I don't pay attention to what the community is looking for in a patch. Good lord, open your eyes and ears already!

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:46 pm 

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Pious wrote:
These are the changes on elemental gear.
-griffons diadem
changed from 12-18% elemental skill damage to 8-14% elemental skill damage.

-topaz crafts
-ring - changed from 3-6%, 4-8% and 5-10% to 3-4%, 5-6%, and 7-8% skill dmg
-helm/belt/boots/glove - changed from 6-12%, 8-16%, and 10-20% pierce/skill dmg to 3-4%, 5-8%, and 9-12% pierce/skill dmg

-rainbow facet cold,fire,lit,poison
skill% dmg reduced from 3-6% to 2-3%. pierce values remain the same.

-tal,ral,ort,thul reduced from 8% skill damage in weapons to 5% skill dmg.

this will mostly affect characters level 85+, and only those that are well equipped.


Just so people get an idea of what happened here.

In the end game your looking at a nerf of about

A 40% elemental damage with perf gear. That's with perf gear. Not everyone rolls with perf gear. It probably won't be so bad.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:48 pm 

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blue_myriddn wrote:
Pious wrote:
increasing the single spawn to 3 is a great idea. i'll definitely sign on to that.

For what possible purpose would you gain by increasing monster hitpoints? Making things take longer? Forcing people to stare at the screen longer? Having monsters die in 2 hits rather than 1?

There is ZERO value to it and serious consequences to rookie players by doing it. Do you even listen to ANYONE outside of the small circle of bozos on this forum? Do you pay attention at all to what people on the realm do? Apparently not, so let me clue you in:

step 1 - single spawn
step 2 - kill the boss

Why? Because people hate for fights to go on for so long when it is clear they can actually beat the boss. They want to see either one of two options:

1 - whoa, that boss kicked my ass! I am so not ready for this
2 - ya bitch, that's right I'm a big bad ass

The option of "holy fuck, will this boss just die already!" is extremely down the fun list. That is what will happen for the mid level players who don't farm the power gear and just want to have fun. Bumping it to a 3 person spawn though is just going to making things duller for people.

And you all say that I don't pay attention to what the community is looking for in a patch. Good lord, open your eyes and ears already!


While I do agree with you here I think there is already talk about buffing bosses or something of that nature in the works.


Er let me rephrase. I don't agree with the idea that upping a bosses spawn doesn't increase difficulty but I do agree that most people will SS even when they are fully twinked because it's a faster kill.

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Last edited by Lee on Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:51 pm 

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boss damage is increasing too by the way.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:53 pm 

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blue_myriddn wrote:
Pious wrote:
increasing the single spawn to 3 is a great idea. i'll definitely sign on to that.

For what possible purpose would you gain by increasing monster hitpoints? Making things take longer? Forcing people to stare at the screen longer? Having monsters die in 2 hits rather than 1?

There is ZERO value to it and serious consequences to rookie players by doing it. Do you even listen to ANYONE outside of the small circle of bozos on this forum? Do you pay attention at all to what people on the realm do? Apparently not, so let me clue you in:

step 1 - single spawn
step 2 - kill the boss

Why? Because people hate for fights to go on for so long when it is clear they can actually beat the boss. They want to see either one of two options:

1 - whoa, that boss kicked my ass! I am so not ready for this
2 - ya bitch, that's right I'm a big bad ass

The option of "holy fuck, will this boss just die already!" is extremely down the fun list. That is what will happen for the mid level players who don't farm the power gear and just want to have fun. Bumping it to a 3 person spawn though is just going to making things duller for people.

And you all say that I don't pay attention to what the community is looking for in a patch. Good lord, open your eyes and ears already!


increasing the spawn from 2 to 3 isn't game shattering unless you play a barb with 7k attack rating and 9k hp in hell a5. i'm sure if your barb is of this sort he will struggle a great deal more.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:55 pm 
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Increasing the max spawn seems to have been given a positive response though... Lets not nitpick just for the sake of it. It was 3 player spawn before and people managed fine, i'd personally just set the spawn at a constant 4 player spawn no matter how many players in the game. See how many people single spawn then. The game is already a breeze in an 8 player party like you say.

Quote:
The option of "holy fuck, will this boss just die already!" is extremely down the fun list.


It is what will happen to players who don't have the basics of "Tank + cannon" that has been the base of any successful team on HU since it's birth.

Quote:
And you all say that I don't pay attention to what the community is looking for in a patch. Good lord, open your eyes and ears already!


I'm yet to see someone else who is against increasing the spawn. However, this is a discussion not a speech.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:58 pm 

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As far as the spawning goes.. lets just make this simple! It's very simple. No need to argue about it or anything.

Increasing the spawn results in a boss with more life. What's so hard?! Well understand this.

When it all boils down it's just like this. The longer the boss is ALIVE the more output of damage he deals.

This means if it takes you to 10 sec to kill a boss your only taking 10 seconds of damage.

If it takes you 30 sec to kill that boss then you have to deal with 30 secs of that boss damage.

This is why increasing spawn does increase difficulty. It's as simple as 1+1. Next subject.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:14 am 

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Lee wrote:
As far as the spawning goes.. lets just make this simple! It's very simple. No need to argue about it or anything.

Increasing the spawn results in a boss with more life. What's so hard?! Well understand this.

When it all boils down it's just like this. The longer the boss is ALIVE the more output of damage he deals.

This means if it takes you to 10 sec to kill a boss your only taking 10 seconds of damage.

If it takes you 30 sec to kill that boss then you have to deal with 30 secs of that boss damage.

This is why increasing spawn does increase difficulty. It's as simple as 1+1. Next subject.



Id like to add to this a bit since it was my suggestion originally to up the spawn limit.

Blue your version of this mod is to date the easiest HU i've ever played. Im not sure if that was your intention as I haven't read any of the patch debates from the year past. This is my what 6th year playing this mod (not consecutively). All you did to improve HU was swing the pendulum from melee to ele.
What me and many of the hardcore players strive for is a challenge.. Now while my Pzon has been helped along quite nicely by the likes of Lee/Bob/Pappy/Ben. My light trapper is A5 NM and ive done so completely solo save for a1 in norm..
Fact is what Blue's version wanted to do and what it accomplished are 2 different things. While it did increase the difficulty of builds that needed to get hit to inflict dmg, it reduced the difficulty of builds that rarely get hit in killing bosses (trapper sin/Pzon/ Anything that can kite.)


Now while increasing the spawn count may not directly influence a games difficulty it does increase the chance of many variables in a fight.
For example a healer missing a heal/ A tank not hittin the juv on time/ The dps causing too many counters at once. People dropping mid fight. Bosses Healing mid fight. Lag spikes occuring during the battle. Which all can result in a whipe for SC or deaths in HC.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:53 am 
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either new ele rings are too strong or the rest of the crafts are too weak.
5-10 vs 10-20
now
7-8 vs 9-12
and rings get +skills

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:03 am 
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Zikur wrote:
either new ele rings are too strong or the rest of the crafts are too weak.
5-10 vs 10-20
now
7-8 vs 9-12
and rings get +skills


other crafts are being boosted. (blue's list minus some adjustments)
take a peek at the thread i posted and let me know what you think about those.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:05 am 
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i mean specifically ele crafts. im comparing rings to other crafts from blues model to proposed. under blue's model rings had half the +/- of the other crafts. now they're much closer

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:20 am 
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Reason because crafts are nefred is simple: Other than sorcs', skills were balanced having no mastery in mind. 15% on belt, 8% on ring, 5% on facets and you soon will hit 130% inc your final damage with 0 downsides on most of the chars. That nerf won't affect any of new chars who play from lvl1 to lvl95. Reducing tier5 of skills will make only things worse for guys without facets. Damage without massive %inc looks balanced.
Topaz crafts - they still will be buffed vs these from 1.21. Remember in 1.21 you had only one mod on topaz crafts. now pierce and %inc.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:29 am 

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blue_myriddn wrote:
There is ZERO value to it and serious consequences to rookie players by doing it. Do you even listen to ANYONE outside of the small circle of bozos on this forum? Do you pay attention at all to what people on the realm do? Apparently not, so let me clue you in:

step 1 - single spawn
step 2 - kill the boss

Why? Because people hate for fights to go on for so long when it is clear they can actually beat the boss.
I've seen so much single spawning as it is. Was rolling nm a while back got to throne. Was told to "leave game for 10 minutes" by a lvl 100 psn zon. WTF, it was nm for the love of God. No matter how you set the spawn rate, people WILL still use ss. Personally, when my friends and I roll, it's full spawned so changing it won't matter to me all that much.


blue_myriddn wrote:
And you all say that I don't pay attention to what the community is looking for in a patch. Good lord, open your eyes and ears already!
Blue, you are the one who needs to open your eyes. Look around, there is no flame fest going on here, outside of you anyway. People are WORKING TOGETHER for the good of the mod. Good ideas get discussed, bad ones get left behind. Simple concept. I ask this, how many spoke out against the oak nerf and 6 point pally? Obviously, you didn't listen.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:02 am 

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Do you think it will be possible to solve the axe throwing problem in this patch or is it something that needs client side edits aswell?
And by axe throwing problem I mean that throwing axes range is very very short and barely even reach the side of the screen.

Oh and none of the unique throwing weapons got any sockets in them so could we get some?! :D Like on gimmershred preferbly 2-3 or more :D
The main reason I'd like sockets on the throwing weapons is because non of them have any cb, and if you dont add cb then we'll need at least a few sockets to get some kind of cb on them.

There is ofc the discussion about the regeneration speed of throwing weapons.
It was talked about a lot in this thread viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3613.
I've tried it out a lot with the 1 in ever 5 seconds regeneration and it was awesome compared to the 1/30 sec. But I think it should be 1 in 4 seconds.
The thing is that double thrower throw so fucking fast that it would need the 1/4 sec to be able to go around and throw for more then half the time melee can go around and hit shit without repairing.
With 1 in 5 sec you could throw for about 10 minutes with the attack speed I have anyway. And I think you can get faster ias then I have aswell.
I dont know how it would be with 1/3 but I wouldnt say no :P

Could you remove the "hit causes monster to flee" from the lacerator? I think its just annoying and if you wana fear you can use howl. Or at least lower the chance of it procing because for me it just overwrites amp all the time and its annoying.

btw if you roll a rare throwing axe or javelin is it possible to get the piercing attack on it? or is that not something that appears on rare items?

hmm...thats all I got for now

EDIT: also there is a display error for double throw, is that possible to fix or is that a client side thing?
EDIT2: saw the item changes abominae suggested and they pretty much cover half my post awesome work abom.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:14 am 
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Well I got my own patch done today so i can assist here abit more if theres any tricky skills stuff needing done still.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:00 am 
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Steel wrote:
Reason because crafts are nefred is simple: Other than sorcs', skills were balanced having no mastery in mind. 15% on belt, 8% on ring, 5% on facets and you soon will hit 130% inc your final damage with 0 downsides on most of the chars. That nerf won't affect any of new chars who play from lvl1 to lvl95. Reducing tier5 of skills will make only things worse for guys without facets. Damage without massive %inc looks balanced.
Topaz crafts - they still will be buffed vs these from 1.21. Remember in 1.21 you had only one mod on topaz crafts. now pierce and %inc.

hmm i suppose the rings do only have mastery % no pierce.

the only other thing about changing the recipe is it will only affect players who haven't rolled their 20/20 of choice and overvalues the ones that exist.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:02 am 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
I'm yet to see someone else who is against increasing the spawn. However, this is a discussion not a speech.

Forums don't really work that way. Look carefully over the history of changes on a forum, you tend not to hear about the things that end up becoming a big deal, largely because people can't quite visualize how the changes will all add up together. The other factor is that a lot of people simply don't care enough to post.

If you REALLY want to gauge what the community thinks, don't run polls or post topics on the forums - go on to the realm and actually game with people. Not your tight little circle of private parties, but in open public games with lots of people. Watch how people play and ask them questions.

Don't get fooled in to the nonsense notion that this forum clique of 7-10 people is in any way representative of the entire community. Currently there are 11 registered users on the forum - mostly names that are familiar to people. In contrast, there are 42 people on the realm - lots of whom you have never heard of. That is a 4:1 ratio at just a random sampling. How about you ask them if they would rather that bosses have more HPs? Or if they think that battling a pack of champ wyrms should take even longer than it does now?

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:08 am 
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If you don't vote in a general election, you don't really have the right to complain as far as I'm concerned.

When I play, I always play public games.

Regardless of that, I think its a better idea if people who have played here for a long time have a more active role than someone who has been here a few months.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:09 am 

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blue_myriddn wrote:
PureRage-DoD wrote:
I'm yet to see someone else who is against increasing the spawn. However, this is a discussion not a speech.

Forums don't really work that way. Look carefully over the history of changes on a forum, you tend not to hear about the things that end up becoming a big deal, largely because people can't quite visualize how the changes will all add up together. The other factor is that a lot of people simply don't care enough to post.

If you REALLY want to gauge what the community thinks, don't run polls or post topics on the forums - go on to the realm and actually game with people. Not your tight little circle of private parties, but in open public games with lots of people. Watch how people play and ask them questions.

Don't get fooled in to the nonsense notion that this forum clique of 7-10 people is in any way representative of the entire community. Currently there are 11 registered users on the forum - mostly names that are familiar to people. In contrast, there are 42 people on the realm - lots of whom you have never heard of. That is a 4:1 ratio at just a random sampling. How about you ask them if they would rather that bosses have more HPs? Or if they think that battling a pack of champ wyrms should take even longer than it does now?


What about the players who voted in polls ? There were almost 50 in my poll alone. Obviously those players read the forums and voted. Do they not count?

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:33 am 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Regardless of that, I think its a better idea if people who have played here for a long time have a more active role than someone who has been here a few months.

Why? Are those people of the Master Race or something?
What makes them so much better? Honestly, I don't see any great qualities in them, mostly a pack of asswipes in my view.

But sure - put in a bunch of changes that players clearly dislike and pat yourself on the back for "listening to the community" if you want.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:41 am 
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blue_myriddn wrote:

But sure - put in a bunch of changes that players clearly dislike and pat yourself on the back for "listening to the community" if you want.


Clearly, that's some kind of self-speech.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:42 am 

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kwikster wrote:
Steel wrote:
As for proc - can be removed. Abs is too much for +1 skill sc that everyone actually has and always will use so there's just free abs. +2-3 stats maybe? Like free 15 when perfs.

Shard drop chance will be increased ofc??
Here's another idea, if it's not overly difficult. Give Andy shard 3-5% all res, Duri shard 3-5 stats, mehpi shard 1-3% sorb, Diablo shard 1-3% dr and Baal 5-7 stats. In this manner they give something more useful than procs, without a huge impact across the board.


kinda cool , but we dont need res all, need max res increase, res all are easy by the time you are farming shards
I.E
andy 1-3 max psn resis/ or psn length reduce 25% or such
duriel 1-3dr%
diablo 1-3% fire sorb or 1-3 max fire resist
mephisto 1-3 light absorb or 1-3 % max light resist
baal increase chance to cast cold nova missile thing when struck or increase life 2-3% max hp

these would actually be useful mods while not OP


also bone spirit could use a speed buff not dmg buff, or bone orb would be sweet


Last edited by blinky99 on Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:43 am 
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Quote:
Why? Are those people of the Master Race or something?
What makes them so much better?


What makes them better for the job is that they have a vast amount of in game experience on multiple build types and stages of the game. You would rather someone with no idea of how all the diff builds play do it?

Quote:
Honestly, I don't see any great qualities in them, mostly a pack of asswipes in my view.

Do you realise how childish you are being?? You didn't have a problem with them when they were agreeing with you...

Quote:
But sure - put in a bunch of changes that players clearly dislike and pat yourself on the back for "listening to the community" if you want.


What are you talking about and who do you see who hates on everything except you?

--------------------
You are abviously still pretty hurt that your efforts were not well recieved and thats understandable but at least try to rise above it and approach it with a level head.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:28 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Regardless of that, I think its a better idea if people who have played here for a long time have a more active role than someone who has been here a few months.

Why? Are those people of the Master Race or something?
What makes them so much better? Honestly, I don't see any great qualities in them, mostly a pack of asswipes in my view.

But sure - put in a bunch of changes that players clearly dislike and pat yourself on the back for "listening to the community" if you want.


I agree with blue on this one. - A small group of players is not the community. The people online playing the game is the community.

Everyone here feels that they are better than the newcomers because they played last patch. This is not last patch, all the newcomers have the same experience if not more with the current patch and have just as much weight in the community, and should have just as much weight in the community patch.

"But i played last patch and i know more than you because you are new!!11"

No one here playing this patch is new at diablo, some people i have talked to have been around 1.08 such as myself, and they know how the game works. This isnt even the first mod people have played on a realm either. If you played last patch you know why melee was nerfed and casters were buffed...

Melee was overnerfed due to a bug with the res charms making bosses completely immune despite amp. Blue acknowledged this and made a fix. people agreed with 98% of the patch, save the oak nerf and 6 pt pallys - which did not break the game and was not that big of a change. Now the "community" patch ( which less than 10 people are a part of, a majority of them being from hardcore which is the overt minority of the true community), is being made to nerf casters and buff melee, without even addressing the issue that caused melee to be useless in the first place, or asking what the community wants.

I agree that psn amazons, were a bit overpowered, but that was due to poison damage, not the amazon, yet you took a sledge hammer to the amazon. I feel bad for the non twinked bowazon who logs on and casts a decoy to see it get decimated before her casting animation is over. News flash to those who think nerfing the poison zon will stop psn characters from wrecking bosses: People are going to xfer all their psn zon gear to a psn necro and do the same thing with psn nova, maxed lower res, and a castable army. And if you nerf the necro, wait for the rabies druid who will have 20k life from oak and lycan and do the same thing.


As for "/players 3" the people who agree with it are hardcore players who play in a group anyways and are not really affected by it. Log on to the realm and join the act xxx help game and tell the 1 guy in there who is struggling to beat the act ( more likely waiting for someone to help them with the act or do it for them) and tell them that you are going to increase the spawn to 3 and ask them if they agree with it.

cool, areas that take an hour and are boring as hell will take even longer. seems like a good solution. especially for the casters who are getting a global nerf.

Why are casters being nerfed? OP builds like psn zons are already nerfed, fire druids lost Armageddon, ice druids lost valor, casters lost spam-able tanks, you're talking about raising the difficulty? Why do to casters what happened to melee last patch?

I dont think this mod whet to hell with the new patch, sure it had some problems but a fix was suggested and should have been implemented. I think the mod is going to hell as we speak as a small group of people acting like nazis (small minority group who think there better than everyone else because they played last patch, and all new comers should be flamed).



Im not saying what you guys are doing is bad at all, i just think your attitudes are skewed, just look at all the biased polls around here. I feel that blue was right on with his patch, and this patch is trying to go back to the last patch which is a step in the wrong direction. This reminds me of all the people who were on the forums arguing that 1.09 was the best patch, while everyone who liked 1.10 were playing the game...


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:34 pm 

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For the 101 charm use the red portals in a5 that no one goes in make a boss that drops or has a chance to that can drop organ or key, cube organs or keys to enter area for new boss profit

cubing hearts/ shards is a lame idea


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:39 pm 
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PmP wrote:
blue_myriddn wrote:
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Regardless of that, I think its a better idea if people who have played here for a long time have a more active role than someone who has been here a few months.

Why? Are those people of the Master Race or something?
What makes them so much better? Honestly, I don't see any great qualities in them, mostly a pack of asswipes in my view.

But sure - put in a bunch of changes that players clearly dislike and pat yourself on the back for "listening to the community" if you want.


I agree with blue on this one. - A small group of players is not the community. The people online playing the game is the community.

Everyone here feels that they are better than the newcomers because they played last patch. This is not last patch, all the newcomers have the same experience if not more with the current patch and have just as much weight in the community, and should have just as much weight in the community patch.

"But i played last patch and i know more than you because you are new!!11"

No one here playing this patch is new at diablo, some people i have talked to have been around 1.08 such as myself, and they know how the game works. This isnt even the first mod people have played on a realm either. If you played last patch you know why melee was nerfed and casters were buffed...

Melee was overnerfed due to a bug with the res charms making bosses completely immune despite amp. Blue acknowledged this and made a fix. people agreed with 98% of the patch, save the oak nerf and 6 pt pallys - which did not break the game and was not that big of a change. Now the "community" patch ( which less than 10 people are a part of, a majority of them being from hardcore which is the overt minority of the true community), is being made to nerf casters and buff melee, without even addressing the issue that caused melee to be useless in the first place, or asking what the community wants.

I agree that psn amazons, were a bit overpowered, but that was due to poison damage, not the amazon, yet you took a sledge hammer to the amazon. I feel bad for the non twinked bowazon who logs on and casts a decoy to see it get decimated before her casting animation is over. News flash to those who think nerfing the poison zon will stop psn characters from wrecking bosses: People are going to xfer all their psn zon gear to a psn necro and do the same thing with psn nova, maxed lower res, and a castable army. And if you nerf the necro, wait for the rabies druid who will have 20k life from oak and lycan and do the same thing.


As for "/players 3" the people who agree with it are hardcore players who play in a group anyways and are not really affected by it. Log on to the realm and join the act xxx help game and tell the 1 guy in there who is struggling to beat the act ( more likely waiting for someone to help them with the act or do it for them) and tell them that you are going to increase the spawn to 3 and ask them if they agree with it.

cool, areas that take an hour and are boring as hell will take even longer. seems like a good solution. especially for the casters who are getting a global nerf.

Why are casters being nerfed? OP builds like psn zons are already nerfed, fire druids lost Armageddon, ice druids lost valor, casters lost spam-able tanks, you're talking about raising the difficulty? Why do to casters what happened to melee last patch?

I dont think this mod whet to hell with the new patch, sure it had some problems but a fix was suggested and should have been implemented. I think the mod is going to hell as we speak as a small group of people acting like nazis (small minority group who think there better than everyone else because they played last patch, and all new comers should be flamed).



Im not saying what you guys are doing is bad at all, i just think your attitudes are skewed, just look at all the biased polls around here. I feel that blue was right on with his patch, and this patch is trying to go back to the last patch which is a step in the wrong direction. This reminds me of all the people who were on the forums arguing that 1.09 was the best patch, while everyone who liked 1.10 were playing the game...


I think that you should not generalize quite so much. I mainly stay out of the bullshit on this forum. I don't pretend that I am superior because I have been here longer than some. I simply offer to do the things that I am comfortable with, and try to give input when I think it is necessary.

Also, getting a tad annoyed at Blue's hasty generalizations. Thanks for trying to spray your shit on me, when I have tried to keep folks from incessantly flaming you for the sake of all of us. Greatly appreciated. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:44 pm 
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Quote:
I agree that psn amazons, were a bit overpowered, but that was due to poison damage, not the amazon, yet you took a sledge hammer to the amazon. I feel bad for the non twinked bowazon who logs on and casts a decoy to see it get decimated before her casting animation is over. News flash to those who think nerfing the poison zon will stop psn characters from wrecking bosses: People are going to xfer all their psn zon gear to a psn necro and do the same thing with psn nova, maxed lower res, and a castable army. And if you nerf the necro, wait for the rabies druid who will have 20k life from oak and lycan and do the same thing.

1) Damage before 95lvl won't be nerfed
2) Poison zons don't need decoy at all in team play - I maxed valk and strategy and killed everything in game except psn immunes. I was a noob back then and poison zons weren't that strong (3 patches ago)
3)Psn nova... maxed lr and castable army... sounds like 140 point build. Psn nova is 20k dps @ 99lvl. gl
4)20k hp rabies ? on what lvl. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3591&p=32709#p32709


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:03 pm 
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Were the runewords that were proposed all regular shields? I have the list of what the attributes are supposed to be, I just don't remember the item types.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:05 pm 
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Steel wrote:
1) Damage before 95lvl won't be nerfed
2) Poison zons don't need decoy at all in team play - I maxed valk and strategy and killed everything in game except psn immunes. I was a noob back then and poison zons weren't that strong (3 patches ago)
3)Psn nova... maxed lr and castable army... sounds like 140 point build. Psn nova is 20k dps @ 99lvl. gl
4)20k hp rabies ? on what lvl. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3591&p=32709#p32709


1. ok so t3, t4, and t5 are all at lvl 99?

2. whose going to tank in a party of casters?
2.5 3 patches ago? sorry im taking about the current patch...

3. psn nova, psn strike, psn explosion and lr is 80 pts, 1 into all summons 10, 6 pre reqs - 12 skills from quests = maxed in the mid 80's not sure what else you are maxing, not to mention the extra 15 skill pts

4. 17k hp with self bo and oak, BO bitch + oak bitch, rubies over facets, = ??? profit


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:08 pm 

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I guess part of the problem may be inadvertently that this Patch turned into a Dev team kind of patch and everyone has agreed that doesn't work.( I thought it would ) Ironically some of those same people who told me a Dev team can never work are now apart of this "Dev Team." But that's another story. now I'm starting to see I was completely wrong. It's better with 1-2 people running/editing/doing the changes than with so many people at work. Everyone wants to suggest new ideas etc. I originally supported more people but it is starting to become noticeably ineffective.

Kramutis mdr/pdr on safety craft was the first warning sign among others. Ideally this is going to have to go back to at least maximum two people who decide what changes and what doesn't. I don't think this is going to work as it currently stands. There will always be differed opinions amongst a group of so many people responsible for major changes.

While some of Blues posts are actually good ( some still suck ) and do make sense at the same time I think the current group of people running shit are going to see just how difficult Blues shoes are. As such even the smallest changes in a sensitive community will flare people up and result in a negative response.6stat paladins and 3% Oak were enough to result in Blue eventually quitting/leaving the forums. And what I mean is buffing melee a little too much will result in a lot of back fire etc. It could be a disastrous patch with too many people involved.

that's why I expressed concerned about buffing melees in conjunction with caster nerfing. It's heading towards the direction of 1.21z which started the modding or editing phase of HU anyway. Ideally everyone wanted out of that patch. Blue just didn't succeed and went too far on nerfing melees.

I just hope adequate testing is going to be done and actual end game numbers will be looked at along with mid game etc. to see the impact of nerfs/buffs on each character. A little testing goes a long way. If no testing is done then the patch could go terribly bad.



The main problem is the current group is just not going to be effective as it's running like a Dev team.

Things will have to change more than likely. Back to 1-2 people. Pious/Baerk/Kevin or something of that nature. Forgot to add Kevins name.

PmPs post carries some weight. I'm not going to lie or be unreasonable. Newer players should have considerable weight as well. Many of them are just as experienced and long time D2 players as the rest of us. The veterans in the community share a different status though. They've been around for years and It wouldn't be fair if the community were ran off newer players with so many veterans, would it?

Could you imagine the Navy if it were ran by new recruits while all the generals etc. became 'soldiers' again. Extreme analogy.. I know but you get the idea.

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Last edited by Lee on Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:08 pm 
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Quote:
2. whose going to tank in a party of casters?


go back to bnet...

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:10 pm 
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rabies druid can have the best oak here. what other oak bitch you have in mind?

Quote:
1. ok so t3, t4, and t5 are all at lvl 99? k thx.
wait for final list
Quote:
2. whose going to tank in a party of casters?
2.5 3 patches ago? sorry im taking about the current patch...
Tank what? Only one place you need a tank is duriel combat. Meph room you can run all day, diablo you can not even see him once and kill. Baal can be killed from right rift where you enter. What tank I ask?
Quote:
3. psn nova, psn strike, psn explosion and lr is 80 pts, 1 into all summons 10
1 point summons die under 0.5 sec from any boss on hell. Unless you recast blades all the time but then you don't have time to do the dmg.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Lee wrote:
I guess part of the problem may be inadvertently that this

Kramutis mdr/pdr on safety craft was the first warning sign among others. Ideally this is going to have to go back to at least maximum two people who decide what changes and what doesn't. I don't think this is going to work as it currently stands. There will always be differed opinions amongst a group of so many people responsible for major changes.


Wtf. These were taken from the crafts off of blue's list. I asked and asked and asked if these were okay. I easily changed them when I got up. I did not expect the first list to be the absolute final iteration on them.

If people do not want me to also add those runewords, then say so, and I will go do something else with my time.

I don't remember saying a dev team would not work. What I stated was to be really wary of the last pitfalls. Not sure who you are including in your statement about that. All have learned something from that experience.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:47 pm 

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I dont think I've seen anything on this but is the chance to roll a 511% ed rare gona be increased or not? it was among blues shit but I havent seen anything about it since. Would it be possible to add? cus it would be pretty sweet.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:16 pm 
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that would be prefix/suffix work which I know exactly how to modify. I wonder what others really think of the current rate for rolling those rares myself.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:38 pm 
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Rolling rares sucks dick takes forever.

Half of SC is also a joke in terms of playing this game. We have people who stand in corners when they do 100k DPS and only run in to loot (things they did no damage to mind yo but they gave me 1pt oak I should be grateful). The reason for a majority of private games is because the sheer amount of leechers on softcore is horrendous. I ran some pub games recently to level some friends. I had to squelch half of the game because of all the begging and asking me to rush the characters they've made and don't wanna run through. I'm sure I should listen to that group of people and they can come up with better ideas than people who know how to play. You may see something worthwhile in his post Lee but that's because you don't know the softcore community. It's a shit ton of leechers and a few worthwhile individuals helping out the leechers.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:10 pm 

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Any idea if hammers are going to work off the demon/undead resistance bypass or not? Messing around editing the scepter items and no sure where to stand on the hammer related stuff.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:27 pm 

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i thought kev had added demon bypass on foh and undead bypass on hammers? i think it would be a good idea to keep that plan.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:35 pm 

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Oh, that's right. Was mostly curious if magic pierce would still be relevant to hammers, and looks like it will.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:27 pm 

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kramuti wrote:
Lee wrote:
I guess part of the problem may be inadvertently that this

Kramutis mdr/pdr on safety craft was the first warning sign among others. Ideally this is going to have to go back to at least maximum two people who decide what changes and what doesn't. I don't think this is going to work as it currently stands. There will always be differed opinions amongst a group of so many people responsible for major changes.


Wtf. These were taken from the crafts off of blue's list. I asked and asked and asked if these were okay. I easily changed them when I got up. I did not expect the first list to be the absolute final iteration on them.

If people do not want me to also add those runewords, then say so, and I will go do something else with my time.

I don't remember saying a dev team would not work. What I stated was to be really wary of the last pitfalls. Not sure who you are including in your statement about that. All have learned something from that experience.


Oh my mistake. I didn't know those were Blues idea lol. Anyway, no your fine. Just keep doing what your doing. I think everything will be alright in the end.

Doesn't matter who I was including.. the point is I personally don't think so many people working on this will work.

Take kevins list for example. That was all the work of one individual. Do you think a team could have formed that list just as quick? No way. I just think 1-2 is the best in the future based off logical reasoning.

I'm not saying the current 'dev team' is going to fail or anything. I am just suggesting the ideal that should happen eventually. For now the current set up is fine.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:53 pm 

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i'd like to just point out that lots of work has been accomplished. more has been achieved in discussions/work with players in the last few days than in the last few months. soulmancer laid down a directive in a post earlier:


Soulmancer wrote:
An individual or small group of people who know what thir doing would need to be willing to do the work and compile the patch and changes would need to be supported by the majority of the community by a reasonable margin.

Changes, improvements or revisions would need to use the most current patch available.


just keep that in mind when holding discussion. on a positive note, we may be able to have a full patch read to test by next weekend!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:20 am 

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Sounds great. Appreciate all the work you've done coordinating/leading the team Pious. Don't think anyone could have done it better. Look forward to playing when I come back from vacation. I hope everyone else is just as happy. We are making progress finally.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:30 am 
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hammers and foh fixes aint in yet, i ran outa time, holy column in missiles.txt controls this.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:05 am 

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I was wondering if double throw could get an increase of attack rating per lvl. Atm it gives 15% ar per lvl and I was wondering if it could get buffed to 20% per lvl.
I'm using like 8 ar gcs atm and still dont have that much ar.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:38 am 
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Verb wrote:
I was wondering if double throw could get an increase of attack rating per lvl. Atm it gives 15% ar per lvl and I was wondering if it could get buffed to 20% per lvl.
I'm using like 8 ar gcs atm and still dont have that much ar.



How much Dex? Then how much AR do you have?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:47 am 

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well on my first weapon setup I got 96 dex and 8k and 9.9k ar(one weapon got like +300 ar)
the second weapon setup got 84 dex and 6.6k ar

EDIT: I was wrong, now that I checked I only got 6 ar charms but still lvl 28 double throw gives 435% ar while my lvl 16 frenzy gives 470% ar. Frenzy get 25% ar increase per skill point

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:08 am 
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There's a hardcoded AR bug involving all ranged weapon attacks. All the %AR from the attack skills gets treated as though it's flat AR (resulting in an actual AR much lower than what's displayed on the lieing CS which pretends this bug doesn't exist).

You'd be best off getting fanata or blessed aim aura applied to your double throw barb so that your build actually has some %AR available due to the non attack skill %AR sources.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:48 am 

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damn that sucks, and since its a hardcoded problem I guess its not something easily fixed :(
Is there some way you can work around it like give it a synergy bonus from throwing mastery so it gets more ar that way? or is it both double throw and throwing mastery that is bugging? or you cant add a ar synergy bonus from frenzy aswell? maybe that all is too much work also...I dont know....think something like this would work?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:12 am 
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Since throwing mastery only really applies to double throw since its the barb's only throwing skill... I guess I could add a change where all the %AR is shifted from Double Throw to psynergize Throwing mastery. This will result in normal throw having an aweful lot of AR but that should be a minor unfortunate side effect compared to Double Throw not having most of its AR it should.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:14 am 

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that sounds awesome man, thanks :D

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:22 pm 
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Found a way to get the throwing mastery to gain 15% AR for every double throw level... but the problem is I don't know how to modify the skill descriptions so that throwing mastery's description is updated to reflect the fact that it's actually being synergized by double throw AR wise.

If there was just simply an existing AR% psynergy in the game I could just simply copy the string code and then merrily go about properly updating throwing mastery in its entirety. For now I'll just add a vague synergy reference of the style meditation and cleansing have.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:43 pm 

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well its better then nothing, thanks man :D

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:44 pm 
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claw mastery /venom have this same set up check the skill desc for them

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:52 pm 

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blinky99 wrote:
kwikster wrote:
Steel wrote:
As for proc - can be removed. Abs is too much for +1 skill sc that everyone actually has and always will use so there's just free abs. +2-3 stats maybe? Like free 15 when perfs.

Shard drop chance will be increased ofc??
Here's another idea, if it's not overly difficult. Give Andy shard 3-5% all res, Duri shard 3-5 stats, mehpi shard 1-3% sorb, Diablo shard 1-3% dr and Baal 5-7 stats. In this manner they give something more useful than procs, without a huge impact across the board.


kinda cool , but we dont need res all, need max res increase, res all are easy by the time you are farming shards
I.E
andy 1-3 max psn resis/ or psn length reduce 25% or such
duriel 1-3dr%
diablo 1-3% fire sorb or 1-3 max fire resist
mephisto 1-3 light absorb or 1-3 % max light resist
baal increase chance to cast cold nova missile thing when struck or increase life 2-3% max hp

these would actually be useful mods while not OP


also bone spirit could use a speed buff not dmg buff, or bone orb would be sweet


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:59 pm 
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Can give 2% abs but will change them to 3x1 size. +1skill from SC isn't enough? With drop inc they will be easier to get anni/brain and you don't need 95/99lvl to use these.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:00 pm 
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dew wrote:
claw mastery /venom have this same set up check the skill desc for them


That saved me an awkward appearing work around atleast. I was about to have it be "+15% to attack rating"... now it's "+15% attack rating per level".


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:08 pm 
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I know that the available + elemental damage has been nerfed all around but I was thinking about builds this would break and with the removal of Valor and Geddon from the power houses the were, I feel HFire HFreeze and HShock Zealers will suffer from this removal and should at least have the damage looked at for T4-T5 of the skills. Because they have to use a mix of melee and ele gear and therefore the available +Skills is a bit harder to gear. (Would think added to damage not aura for OP Pulse Even with my Valor on Holy Freeze is still takes 3-4 pulses to kill Fallen in Hell)

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:17 pm 
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The thing is the holy auras double dip on +%element damage of their respective element when it comes to melee damage. Due to this holy fire/freeze are going to be harshly slammed (since those OP runewords in reality gave them more like +300% ele damage).

How do the holy shock zealadins in particular fair? (unfortunately the other 2 elements do not make an accurate point of reference due to the 2 OP RWs wildly skewing their damage)


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:21 pm 
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I haven't seen a Holy Shock to be able to tell you. I could run some numbers and single player but that's the best I could do.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:36 pm 
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I wouldn't worry about single player testing it too much then. It's going to be best to wait to pass judgement after the dust settles from the impending changes.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:42 pm 
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Level 41 Holy Shock is 4977 pulse 1-20k Adds 1-20k Zeal damage. Pulses would kill Quill Rats for like 5-9 (that's the extreme vary) one-two attacks to kill them.

The situation with Auras on the new shields... Will Dream + Daylight stack? If so the build would be fine and able to run convic at the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:57 pm 
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No... it won't just be fine... it will be OP broken. One of the holy shock on equip sources has to be terminated or else we'll be getting a nasty potential damage bug.

More than one damage pulse aura on equip of the same type = damage bugs of the boss obliterating kind.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Baerk wrote:
No... it won't just be fine... it will be OP broken. One of the holy shock on equip sources has to be terminated or else we'll be getting a nasty potential damage bug.

More than one damage pulse aura on equip of the same type = damage bugs of the boss obliterating kind.


Hand of Justice and Dragon are both in the current patch.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:41 pm 
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Hm... that's strange... Does the aura stacking bug specifically require same level holy auras... or is it just simply no one's thought to abuse the existing possibility? I don't see any aura stacking bug fixes mentioned till diablo 1.13.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:14 pm 
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First: Any character/mercenary can do it, but only mercenaries can do it multiple times (glitch).

Second: Auras granted by items are used in Aura-Stacking (Dream, Dragon, and Hand of Justice are the most common).

Third: When two or more of those items, which grant the same aura, are equipped on a character/mercenary the Auras will stack (2 x Dreams = Level 30 Holy Shock Aura).

Fourth: Mercenaries have a glitch/bug with this stacking. For it to work at least two items which give the same aura have to be equipped on them. Next, unequip/reequip one of the items a lot of times, while the other remains equipped, and the auras keep stacking. Say, you have 2 x Dreams, that's 30 Holy Shock, when you unequip one of the items the aura level is supposed to drop back to 15, but it doesn't on mercenaries, it stays at 30 as long as the other item stays equipped. So having 2 x Dreams and unequipping/reequipping will add 15 to the aura lv each time this is done.

Fifth: Act 3 Mercenaries are usually used b/c they can have both 2 x Dreams and HoJ + Dragon equipped at the same time giving them huge fire (Holy Fire) and lightning (Holy Shock) pulse damage. If you use an Act 2 Merc then he will have huge fire damage added to his attack and pulse damage, but he will only have fire, no lightning.

It works with same level aura and different levels on Vanilla.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:35 pm 
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Does different levels work for the bug was the main thing I'm concerned about. That thing about a2 mercs only being able to stack holy fire is incorrect for this mod due to the merc plugin expanding what mercs can equip (a2 merc could do the dual dream bug here since they are allowed to equip shields unlike CLOD a2 mercs). This means a couple runewords need to lose their auras on equip then (unlike an a3 merc an a2 merc will surely charge the boss with their bugged high damage from aura stacking making it very possible the merc could inflict severe damage or even kill the boss outright before the boss can nail them).


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:10 am 
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That was a guide to how it's done copied for Vanilla. I'm looking up what version the problem existed in and I'll see if it's been fixed or not for this. It was patched for Vanilla I'm just not sure when the fix occured it just combines the 2 auras so 14+16 would be 30 and no higher. Everything I'm reading is for 1.11 though so it may of worked correctly in 1.10. I'll test it out and see what happens.

The thing is it is a legit build for a Paladin as they can then run Convic in conjunction with the Holy aura. The main problem is of course with the merc glitching.

But to answer the question it doesn't matter what level the aura same or different as Dream is 15/15 and HoJ Dragon are 16/14

Edit: It doesn't stack the auras tested with HoJ Dragon damage only went up 1k from the 500 cold and 500 magic on the shield. Not 12 auras worth. So point is null.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:40 am 
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Actually with aura stacking the effects are sometimes tricky to detect at a glance. When you stack bug a merc there displayed damage won't get any higher... instead their holy aura damage pulse starts firing off at ludicrously high speeds (meaning it wouldn't be obvious on the merc char screen either).

In any case this bug has already been exploited in Aftermath and it's the same diablo version as this mod (its only natural for a bug discovered in a later diablo version to be present in earlier versions). Letting these runewords with holy auras on equip sit as is will only be a ticking time bomb for abuse unfortunately.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:35 am 
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I'll stack em on a merc later and see what happens I'll try and do it about a 100 times so I'll know for sure.

Way to fix it would be Hand of Justice in Axes only. Same with Doom or at least Axes Polearms. Then just scrap the Holy Shock shield.

Edit : Forgot about A5 Mercs. Nevermind

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:02 am 
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Edit: hm, I've actually tested it and it seems not to work. Used two items with the same aura lvl (12) and started reequiping merc over and over. Dmg was only 360dmg (24lvl aura) and was killing nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:29 am 
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You kept one equipped at all times as you kept re-equipping the other? Also how recently has the D2 Server emulator software been updated? The people who make the D2GS software often regularly include their own bug fixes as well.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:38 am 
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nvm. tested again. 2x 12lvl stack forever but to some limit of like 99lvl? Ran few times in /players 4 a3 norm and was killing trash in 1 aura tick, champs 3-4.
But when I've used 11lvl and 12lvl of auras then everything was fine. Aura was taking like 1/8 of normal enemies' hp.

Just avoid the same lvl of holy aura. Doom is 12 lvl(weapon), HoJ 20(weapon), Ice 12(weapon), Dream 20(head armor), dragon 12lvl(shield, need to be changed)


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:55 am 
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Can't the doom RW be dual wielded on a barb merc though? Shield is fine since its a different level than dream.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:01 am 
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a5 can't dual wield. if you try to give them 2nd wpn item will be destroyed.Dragon has 12lvl holyfire just like hoj.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:07 am 
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That's strange... hand of justice states it has lvl 20 holy fire on equip on blue's site.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:13 am 
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My bad. Previously wrote 20 but had doom's 12lvl in mind.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:17 am 
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So we just need to make sure all the same type of holy auras never have the same level then if two equip sources are possible on mercs.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:29 pm 
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Doomsayer and Ice both have level 12 Holy Freeze. These can be equipped by a barb. You can get a total of one aura stack in 1.3a.

Levels of the holy freeze is new runeword is 10, now all players (EDIT and MERCS) should be able to get 2 sources as well, but in a ok manner.

There Levels of Holy Fire are 20 from HoJ, 12 from Dragon. No new runewords were created.

The levels of Holy Shock are 20 from Dream and 12 from Daylight (new).

We are completely safe then, right?

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Woe and Daylight have had a clone used for safety's sake. Baerk did the skill stuff, and the runewords have been changed and sent.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:18 pm 

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Any chance you guys can take a look at the elemental bow skills. Even with proposed perf gear end game my zon isnt anywhere near the effectiveness of other range trash killers.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:34 pm 
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Quote:
Any chance you guys can take a look at the elemental bow skills. Even with proposed perf gear end game my zon isnt anywhere near the effectiveness of other range trash killers.

You'd have to give a lot more specifics if you want to start a discussion of what to do.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:35 am 
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JnDmX wrote:
Any chance you guys can take a look at the elemental bow skills. Even with proposed perf gear end game my zon isnt anywhere near the effectiveness of other range trash killers.


my bowzon is prolly the best shit to kill trash out there, ms and magic arrow for immunes.


Last edited by snakzz on Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:09 am 
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snakzz wrote:
JnDmX wrote:
Any chance you guys can take a look at the elemental bow skills. Even with proposed perf gear end game my zon isnt anywhere near the effectiveness of other range trash killers.


my bowzon is prolly the best shit to kill trash out there, ms and magig arrow for immunes.



He's either a FrostZon or a ImmoZon. I didn't think ImmoZons had issues. I may be wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:13 am 
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Due to the conflicting reports on the bowazon I won't be looking into it for now. If you are going to make a complaint at least be specific enough as to which skills aren't doing you well instead of saying something so vague it could be 3 entirely different builds.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:55 am 

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Baerk wrote:
Due to the conflicting reports on the bowazon I won't be looking into it for now. If you are going to make a complaint at least be specific enough as to which skills aren't doing you well instead of saying something so vague it could be 3 entirely different builds.


Specifics? Ok how about immo and frost with both their perspective perfect builds are still outclassed by a 1 point MS zon. My dmg is currently sitting at 22k frost. While it does freeze and is quite strong in that suit the mana cost is 24 and 22 on immo. Without perfect gear im chugging mana pots left and right even with mana leech as most of my dmg is elemental and the high phys resistances of monsters in hell mode.

While i appreciate the responses to my post, I am not asking you to change anything, I am just asking another person to look into the dps output of the ele bowzons. And if im just going to meet attitude to my suggestions Ill quit giving them entirely.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:24 pm 
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What part of my response could actually be considered attitude? I've been the one doing the skill modding as of late and the worst thing you could do to a modder who is trying to be helpful is be too vague. (Just how is the modder going to actually likely hit the real problem when they have no clue what it is?)

If mana costs and excessive pot jugging is the problem then I can help ease it.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Mana cost on these sux, I can tell. You can get like 50 ene, obtain like 260 mana from charms and without +mana after kill/on boss fights you better have a full cube of blue pots. Maybe cap their mana cost on 4. For all ele bow skills.

Any idea if Kevin added that new cold arrows or something? Getting all +cold dmg from your gear just like fire does (dwarf star x2 and you win?) could help them.

Immo arrows should get missile fire patch increase. Now it's 3 secs max. If changing this you should boost freezing arrow t5 dmg too, with ele nerf these too will be avoided even more. But I'd ask other guys what they think about this. They need some love, funny builds but handicapped due to many things (mana cost, lack of ele skills gear, low res, low hp).


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:44 pm 
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On the issues with Necro's psn .. Pious Ya dropping the necro's psn dmg and bring back the cloud sounds good...Thing that sucks to with the striker that I forgot to say is there hitting boss's with a wand wich has a -to hit.. I can be wrong but I think Dweb has a -30 to hit anything.. I think thats why Terry made the cloud what it was so the necro doesn't get creamed when tring to do what he does.. 8-) ..

Later today I will test some things on the necro and get a decent nerf for there dmg .. Cheers guys

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:57 pm 
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Needing a full cube of mana pots for a boss fight is ridiculous... For that alone I'll definitely slash the mana costs on the ele bowazon skills in half. Since they are primarily a ranged elemental build of sorts I'm hesitant to go as far crushing the mana costs down as far as 4 per shot though.

I already got direction from Kevin on how to go about cannibalizing a particular mod to create cold arrows bows so that buff is incoming.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:36 pm 
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One more specific I'll ask about concerning the ele zons. Just how much non-element pierce% do they load up on? I'm sure a high pierce% has a profound effect against trash.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:50 pm 

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Baerk wrote:
One more specific I'll ask about concerning the ele zons. Just how much non-element pierce% do they load up on? I'm sure a high pierce% has a profound effect against trash.


Ill try to explain further on my other post. Was at work and couldn't explain fully. The ele xbow trash killing is great at what it does. However my SP zon on open side of our server with 4 people in game total wearing ICE RW and perfect gear in blues patch her mana consumption is outrageous. I seen the turn down to 4. Perhaps make it 8-10? Or give her a more stable mana pool.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:01 pm 
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Mana cost increases per level (where most of the mana cost comes from for mid-high ele bowazon skills at high skill levels) has been slashed down to half of what it currently is in blue's patch (initial mana costs reduced as well). When the next patch comes around your zon's mana costs are guarenteed to drop down to half of what they are now and maybe a bit lower for the mid ele skills.

I also noticed some screwball synergies going on with the two high ele bowazon skills. Are their damage outputs not hampered despite the terrible synergy set up?


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:16 pm 

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Baerk wrote:
Mana cost increases per level (where most of the mana cost comes from for mid-high ele bowazon skills at high skill levels) has been slashed down to half of what it currently is in blue's patch (initial mana costs reduced as well). When the next patch comes around your zon's mana costs are guarenteed to drop down to half of what they are now and maybe a bit lower for the mid ele skills.

I also noticed some screwball synergies going on with the two high ele bowazon skills. Are their damage outputs not hampered despite the terrible synergy set up?


Its noticeable. id suggest making both synergies 16 instead of 1 at 12 and other 16.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:32 pm 
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So you didn't notice that one synergy for immo arrow only boosts burn damage and the other synergy only boosts initial impact damage? Or the fact only one synergy only boosts damage while the other only boosts freeze duration?

It's probably because of that totally screwed up synergy set up is why immo and freeze arrow damage is so lacking (since the bulk of their damage is focused in only 40 skill points and the majority of the serious attacks actually being 60 point builds).

--Double Post--

On a side note fires magic arrows has been replaced with Fires Freezing Arrows or Bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:22 pm 

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Ahh ya, Im saying 16% dmg increase on both and a standard freeze/burn length per hard point


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:14 am 
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Asteroth wrote:
On the issues with Necro's psn .. Pious Ya dropping the necro's psn dmg and bring back the cloud sounds good...Thing that sucks to with the striker that I forgot to say is there hitting boss's with a wand wich has a -to hit.. I can be wrong but I think Dweb has a -30 to hit anything.. I think thats why Terry made the cloud what it was so the necro doesn't get creamed when tring to do what he does.. 8-) ..

Later today I will test some things on the necro and get a decent nerf for there dmg .. Cheers guys


Death's Web Lich Wand

+5 to Necromancer Skill Levels
+1-3 to Poison Dagger (Necromancer Only)
+50 Life After Each Kill
+50 to Mana After Each Kill
+50% Faster Cast Rate
+50% Increased Attack Speed
+400 to Attack Rating
Slow Enemies 5%
100% Life Stolen per Hit
100% Mana Stolen per Hit
-10-15% to Enemy Poison Resistance
Reanimate Slain as: Stygian Doll (10%)

No - hit there, but still hits like a bitch lol :p


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:55 am 

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How much is the chance to convert on mindblast currently? Remember that even with a percentage like 10%, if a single kill takes for example 5 hits, you still have about 40% chance to convert. Even with 1% there will still be quite alot of convertees.
I would propose to reduce the % of convert on mindblast with hard points, so that magic sins will be able to use it as aoe attack, without any conversion, while other builds can use it as a 1pt wonder safety skill.

Oh and it would be nice if there would be some item nerfs instead of only buffs. Specifically It would be nice to see a reduction of + to (specific) skills and some of the lvl95 items. For example change the +7 to bonespear on marrowwalk to +2-3, +5-7 to teeth on toothrow to +2-3. Oh and templars could use a nerf, it is seriously op. Oh and stop slapping auras and oskills on everything plz. As it looks now 1.3b is going to be 10x easier than 1.3a.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:19 am 
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Oh and stop slapping auras and oskills on everything plz.


Paladins are losing their identity with everyone runing around with an aura on without even having to give up a skill position for it, at least pallys have to run the auras and sacrifice right click. There are already way to many instances of prayer on equip too.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:23 am 
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Quote:
Specifically It would be nice to see a reduction of + to (specific) skills and some of the lvl95 items. For example change the +7 to bonespear on marrowwalk to +2-3, +5-7 to teeth on toothrow to +2-3. Oh and templars could use a nerf, it is seriously op.
95lvl items are ok, you use them for like 2 last location in game. Templar is OP? how? it was changed to 95 from 92 and added +2 because skillers were removed, anyone said templar was op last ladder? enigma, war, enigma.
But items with high +skill should be looked
Marrows 2-4 maybe, Sandstormtreaks always +2ele, toothrow is insane so yeah 2-3, ormus %inc lowered a bit, to 8-10% maybe, firestorm on druid shield was already changed(yeah there were some nerf to items)... any other items that give like 20% boost to dmg? other than 90++ wpns/armors/zod rws.
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Quote:
Oh and stop slapping auras and oskills on everything plz.


Paladins are losing their identity with everyone runing around with an aura on without even having to give up a skill position for it, at least pallys have to run the auras and sacrifice right click. There are already way to many instances of prayer on equip too.
As long as auras like might/conc/fanat/conviction are limited on few items and only low lvl paladins will be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:32 am 

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Not all skills are created equal. Large bonuses to weak skills are fine.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:24 am 
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As long as auras like might/conc/fanat/conviction are limited on few items and only low lvl paladins will be fine.


IDK about that, one of the best aura healers available atm is a barb due to the obscene levels of prayer and sheer number or sources (wtf).

fana on faith gives enough of a speed boost for almost all chars and the damage bonus is negligable (the ias is the best part of it).

Was the might on equip shield going in? if so, thats another reason for the pally simply not to use an aura. Not that it ever sees more than 1 point anyway except on a charger.

Blessed Aim? Whats wrong with a flat AR bonus.

Medi: well look what happened last time. Having medi + prayer available to non pallys from multiple sources is a roflpie just waiting to be thrown.

Cleansing on levi (does it still have it?)> at least you have to run it so thats fine IMO

Thorns: well lets just say, any non pally can get a higher level thorns than a pally. good times.

Not to mention having an aura on one in 10 items just makes it more likely someone will hit the state limit.

If anything, add them as an oskill with a much lower level.

Less auras on equip on everything and more originality IMO. Auras on pally only shields is OK in small amounts though id say as they already have to give up right click.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:11 am 
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I know what you mean. That's more because nature of din builds:
Zealers - zeal/holy shield/fanat/sacrifice and use fanat all time, get conviction and use it on bosses.
Hammerdins - 60 + 20conc + every aura, not much left to spend.
Holy auradin - now 60 + maybe maxed zeal, not much left to spend.
Healers - can go any router once you hit 20 prayer.
Smiters - max defiance but use fanat only... well will be changed.
Avengers - get a3 merc and run conviction.
There's not much left to get all of these auras with nice %.
Now: Prayer on other chars - immortal flesh is 90lvl item. Prayer from rings heal like for 80 max? on chars with 5k hp by then? + you need zod rw, 99 lvl and medi amu to heal for like 950. Clearly a mistake, but without 2nd medi you'd heal for 600? if you run it on right click and use war cry on left which do 0dmg anyway.
Medi - it's optional for most of chars. You can remove it and noone will miss it, maybe es sorcs... max warmth.
Fanat - bowzons and summoners use this. who else? it's optional. It's only nice to have a summoner with faith rw and smiter using his defiance.
Blessed aim - ar charms, %ar stuff. Only like 3 chars need high ar, so they stack ar charms and its better to buff their dmg with might/conc/fanat or run conviction for -def... noone crafts blessed aim gloves even for a merc.
Thorns - if it was removed from every non din shield, and dmg returned boosted 4x times then maybe it'd be maxed on dins. For now SoB> thorns. Thorns work only ok on converted monsters/summons as they have so low def that monsters actually hit them. I agree that many bosses can be killed with that combo.

Noone will max these above(except fanat) as you need your main aura always active and only auras that are worth running in team play are cleansing, fanat(pewpew), conviction, res auras. It's because how d2 was made with tons of auras that are being bested fairly fast with next skill in next tier or 1 point wonder (vigor, redemption, res auras with dimnishing return). HU followed this. Even if you were to remove all auras on equip, paladins would never max/run vigor/defiance(well smiters in next update)/medi/thorns/bleesed aim/might.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:35 am 
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Then give them a penalty if blvl < 1. make them more useful for a paladin class to run at the very least.

600 heal per pulse is still huge and its available end game (when its supposed to be getting harder, NOT easier), especially when coupled with a healing merc.

The pally already has the most boring skill trees in the game.
20 skills that you must sacrifice right click for to make use of just 1 of them and 10 actual active play skills.

Putting auras on everything is making the one thing a pally has that is interesting (auras) to every class in the game. The pally has no real uniqueness about him now.

I don't see as many oskill warcrys available on items. Oak sage aura on equip? How Aura on equip? SoB aura on equip? More ctc fade when struck? ctc BoS when struck? Oskill DEA? More oskill Inc stamina, Iron skin, Weapon Masterys? More Oskill Summons? Oskill ele masterys? (that worked well before i know but its still what makes a sorc unique)

All those are things that make each char unique too. Why not cut the number of auras on equip and spread some of those around so all classes lose their identity and merge into a single entity that will destroy sanctuary before baal has a chance to complete his wicked scheme!!

Ps. Seriously though, too many auras on equip atm, at least add a penalty to auras if blvl<1 so on equip auras are strongest on a pally with a point in them.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:35 pm 
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Other characters can run the same thing but not as well as the Pally. Hell no one can even touch Convic. Level 7 Auras are negligible and not nearly as effective as a Pally (one of the best end game tanks). As for a Barb Healer.... sure but it's also 3 Zods and a gimmick build. Plenty of Gimmick builds existed even on Vanilla (Bear Sorcs? Bowsins? Zeal Sorcs?)

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:47 pm 
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I don't see as many oskill warcrys available on items. Oak sage aura on equip? How Aura on equip? SoB aura on equip? More ctc fade when struck? ctc BoS when struck? Oskill DEA? More oskill Inc stamina, Iron skin, Weapon Masterys? More Oskill Summons? Oskill ele masterys? (that worked well before i know but its still what makes a sorc unique)
But have any new auras been added to items? Other than 2 holy auras to cut 10 res. I agree any new auras or few existing should be oskill not auras on wear. Just like +3might(being switched) on giant skull, maybe noone uses it but I did, 16 or 17lvl might perhaps may not be the best but I could run thorns merc, fanat(in throwing axe, javs looks retarded) on me + might (curses on left click suck) to boost golems. Could go 7lvl might from holy auras ofc. Also have in mind few runewords being mercs gear.

Victory RW with 20lvl might still isn't added, that aura is no go, maybe 10lvl defiance instead :P. It's obviously merc item as non din melee shields in hu are something funny.


Last edited by Steel on Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:50 pm 
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all im saying is, id rather see the auras actually worth maxing on a pally instead of just handing them out as on equip auras. If they aint worth running manually, why not get rid of them and replace them with something good instead of using them to fill the trees and simply giving them to other chars because "nobody will max them as a pally".

Make them interesting and cut the availability down abit or something.

@Steel, 3 auras on a char with curses too don't sound like something is wrong? Pallys cant get summons + curses + ce to go along with their manually ran auras. It just dont seem very fair to me.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:01 pm 
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I know, but even with that skeles were just meat shield(dmg and ar is bullshit on these, iso blessed aim gloves... wait...). You can do skeles + amp + thorn merc for the same effect. Paladins have conversion :-).

It's not about din auras, it's about any skill that gives something. That's why I said, as long as we keep high lvl auras which matters off wpns/armors/oskills paladins will be created and needed. Just like you can negate HoW by running 12lvl from wisp, get rid of barbs with 17-24 lvl bo from cta, the same way you can get some %ed to your summons when dins are gone.

Instead of lowering auras for blvl < 0 just boost blvl > 1... or mix of both.
Maybe more self synergies? Like maxed might bonuses could go to holy craft shield... or add 50% from might to fanat when maxed both. Ofc only fanat will be used still ;( or any other aura, it's just a simple example with no real proposal.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:19 pm 
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Instead of lowering auras for blvl < 0 just boost blvl > 1... or mix of both.
Maybe more self synergies? Like maxed might bonuses could go to holy craft shield... or add 50% from might to fanat when maxed both. Ofc only fanat will be used still ;( or any other aura, it's just a simple example with no real proposal.


that would be fine with me. Just give the masses of on equip auras some bonus if its a pally running them, they are his skills everyone has access to after all.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:21 pm 
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Alright... Freezing Arrow and Immo Arrow have now been made into proper 60 point build skills with updated descriptions. Seems whoever edited immo Arrow last was shoddy about it since they made the burn damage synergy 16% but forgot to properly update the skill description to reflect that. On a side note checking through the entire skill/missile chain on immo arrow was annoying since immo arrow actually had 3 different rows dictating different aspects of damage.

With this immo/freezing arrow will definately be stronger despite the +%ele nerf. With some good gear that immo arrow should definitely be able to tear into the bosses (at lvl 55 with both synergies maxed and +50%+ fire damage it would be 60+k per entire immo arrow against an immobile boss).


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:41 pm 

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Baerk wrote:
Alright... Freezing Arrow and Immo Arrow have now been made into proper 60 point build skills with updated descriptions. Seems whoever edited immo Arrow last was shoddy about it since they made the burn damage synergy 16% but forgot to properly update the skill description to reflect that. On a side note checking through the entire skill/missile chain on immo arrow was annoying since immo arrow actually had 3 different rows dictating different aspects of damage.

With this immo/freezing arrow will definately be stronger despite the +%ele nerf. With some good gear that immo arrow should definitely be able to tear into the bosses (at lvl 55 with both synergies maxed and +50%+ fire damage it would be 60+k per entire immo arrow against an immobile boss).


I can tell you right now what im going post reset.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:44 pm 
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I haven't had time to read all 24 pages thoroughly yet so forgive me if i'm mistaken.
From what I understand in the new patch
ber will be 2% cb
max on two handed weapons weapon will be 6% (10% ribracker)
crushing blow will be possible to roll/craft 2-3$%
items that had 5% previously had 1% retored (gloves, helm, boots, armour for a total of 4% cb)

The goal being the max cb available 16%? assuming you're using a 6 ber'd weapon ofc.
While I agree a cap on cb is essential couldn't it be possible to apply it better?
Currently as I understand it a smiter has the highest attainable cb and the highest efficiency with it.
The only class I can see managing to deal dmg with a 6ber'd white wpn is a smiter (even gris caddy if non skill ias is still coming back)
Currently it is proposed that the max on a 2h char is 6 + 4 + 2? = 12 assuming you're using a ber'd wh
you could roll a godly rare/craft with enough ias/ed that you can 4 ber it so you get
3 + 4 + 8 = 15
and then you get to deal with your ias ar and block issues on top of that.

The greatest offenders with cb are smiters. Always hits. No 50% ctb.
IMO to balance out blocking vs cb proc's cb available to non smiter's should be higher.
CB on two handed weapons should be higher since unless you ber it you are only going to have 9-10 cb max (or uber omg roll for 15 and then you're still inferior to 1h cb)
zeal could have .5 cb added per hard point or something to help them since they are the only 1h melee i can think of.
I don't know what the answer should be but smite shouldn't have access to higher potential cb than two hand set ups. so raising one or lowering the other would be my proposal I guess.
hope i'm not completely confused.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:06 pm 
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Actually if I'm not mistaken can't Larzuk 6 socket a blue? If so the highest CB possible for a one hand weapon would be 15%. This would lead to a theoretical 19% but that's still less than half the theoretical CB% possible in 1.21z. Amp isn't going to be able to knock enemies/bosses as low as it did in 1.21z anyways (so we are seriously looking at CB probably only having 1/4 of its former glory strength).

The two handed weapons solely having the serious CB is a good thought though. For the moment however we are trying to ease CB back in. Further buffs to two handed CB can be decided after melees have had a chance to warm back up with the new patch test phase.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:03 am 

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Baerk wrote:
Actually if I'm not mistaken can't Larzuk 6 socket a blue?


I think it's white item = max sockets, blue item = 1 or 2 sockets, any other = 1 socket.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:38 am 
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White items depend on the ilvl as well

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:45 am 
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Since people didn't like the idea of having to use all the LOS hearts to make the key to soulmancer Pious decided a new recipe for the key to Soulmancer. It's all 3 cursed items in uncursed forms and the hell diff Samhain charm to make the key. I have just edited in and tested this recipe.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:15 am 

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LockDown wrote:
White items depend on the ilvl as well


I do believe that was changed right around the time items were altered to always have max sockets for that item type. For example cap = 4 sockets. Before that ilvl did sometimes impose a lower cap than would otherwise exist. Before this for example the only 4 os non paladin shield was the Monarch and... something even heavier.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:24 am 
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Quote:
With this immo/freezing arrow will definately be stronger despite the +%ele nerf. With some good gear that immo arrow should definitely be able to tear into the bosses (at lvl 55 with both synergies maxed and +50%+ fire damage it would be 60+k per entire immo arrow against an immobile boss).
60k fire patch? What about 1 immolation dmg, explosive arrpw, and 1st fire arrow?


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:31 am 
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I said entire immo arrow... that means initial impact + the full 3 seconds of burn time (if the boss is moving around a lot it would cut the 60k in half practically due to hardly any burn patch damage).

I would have to relook at the other numbers.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:33 am 
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well shap, it shouldn't be that high. You can stack it fairly easy with matriachal bow. 3 arrows per sec and you have op build. Could lower synergies a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:55 am 
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If it's really so high then consider this. Even though meteor wasn't really complained about it had its burn duration nerfed anyways to bring its damage more under control by kevin. At lvl 55 a meteor with maxed synergies and lvl 55 fire mastery is still 270+K damage per entire meteor despite the nerf.

This puts meteor and immo arrow in the same DPS leagues against an immobile target (only immo arrow will be eating 4x the counters as meteor will).


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:57 am 

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will blade of arreat receive a physical pierce property per level while active
or shard procs removed save maybe baals cold nova on struck increase% maybe


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:25 pm 
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Quote:
At lvl 55 a meteor with maxed synergies and lvl 55 fire mastery is still 270+K damage per entire meteor despite the nerf.
Meteor has 1,5 sec delay + 2 sec to drop. Well I can't tell now if it's op or alright. You posted some weird calculation of overall damage for 1 immo, it tells me nothing. I'll test it when time is right.


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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:50 pm 
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The bower also has 2 recastable tanks to keep thing immobile that the meteor sorc doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: proposal for community patch 1.3b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:01 pm 

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blinky99 wrote:
will blade of arreat receive a physical pierce property per level while active
or shard procs removed save maybe baals cold nova on struck increase% maybe


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