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 Post subject: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:11 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 495
i want to do a fresh playthrough on hc with no hp buffs. that means no passive hp buffs and no party hp buffs. this is partly for fun and partly to find out just how big of an effect hp buffs have on the overall game difficulty. the objective is to kill hell baal.

*characters banned from party: shapeshift druids (they get hp buffs) psn zon, immolation zon, hydra sorc.
*there will be NO single spawning. party size should be limited accordingly.


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:23 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 701
How often/much time are we talking about? I would be interested, can't devote forever to it but probably an hour or two a night on weeknights and maybe some time on weekends depending on what i have going on. But interested nonetheless.

Thinking of what the character will be If i do this.

edit: Are things like rubies in gear (HP%) and HP% gear allowed? Is this restriction just limited to skills and gear giving skills (war, cta, etc)?


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:34 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 495
a fairly substantial amount of time will be needed to do this successfully. no passive hp buffs or party hp buffs will be allowed.


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:39 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
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I'm in for the challenge. I can probably roll through 2-3 hours a night between 7 and 11pm eastern each night during the week and more time on the weekends when I am home (usually every other weekend).

One other major question of mine: are we allowed to bring any gear we currently have, or is this a completely new thing altogether (as in a fresh ladder start)?


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:39 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
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I'm in for the challenge. I can probably roll through 2-3 hours a night between 7 and 11pm eastern each night during the week and more time on the weekends when I am home (usually every other weekend).

One other major question of mine: are we allowed to bring any gear we currently have, or is this a completely new thing altogether (as in a fresh ladder start)?


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:43 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 495
this is going to be done on non-ladder, so no items whatsoever from any existing characters.


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 5:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:12 am
Posts: 103
I'm totally up for it. I'm on right now with four days off.


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:14 pm 
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Posts: 1656
only if i can play holy bolt pali lol

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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 11:07 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 495
bombs away!


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 11:37 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:36 am
Posts: 317
Location: Phoenix
im in, ill play a non bo barb or a sin be back in a few hours to get started

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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:39 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 749
What's the status on this? I may be interested in playing some.


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 7:34 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 495
theres about 10 folks or so at different points in the game. some in a2, others in a1, some in a5.


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 7:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:12 am
Posts: 199
Oh shit.


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 495
in hell a2 with a healer, smiter, mentalsin and meteor sorc. i was expecting more of a challenge, given that we dont even have a summoner with us. i'm definitely starting to believe hp buffs need to go to the chopping block if a future patch happens.


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:12 am
Posts: 103
Scratch the healer.


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
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Image

rip deathnova(healer) to dk charger minion. there was only 1 left too!


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 1656
map awareness>hp buffs

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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:05 pm 
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on a more serious note, I'm starting to think this crusade is proving that juvs are actually more of the problem than hp. As long as you have enough life/mitigation to not get 1 shot, and a lot of juvs + decent reactions, you can tank anything indefinitely by juving every time you take damage.

My guess is that unless one of you takes an unlucky amp+confuse nado at darkness, if you guys get passed meph you will do everything up until samy, los, and sm, because 6k life is simply not enough to tank them imo.

i actually like drrod's idea from the other thread, making juvs less effective like 10 or 20% as an easy fix

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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:22 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 495
i think a better idea is to remove the juvs :)


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:50 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 701
I was thinking the same thing before slappy. The juvs just replace the life buffs... you just need more of them. But as long as you can handle a hit or two and have enough juvs, you can stay alive. But I'm in the same boat as pious: you have to remove them outright. Now I think that may bring on a lot more created healer pallies and summoners, but at the very least, removal of the juvs will create more of a need to focus on strategy, party synergy, and gearing for defense rather than complete damage. If anything, I'd remove the juvs before removing the hp buffs, although those could very easily be chopped in half (at least).


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:16 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 701
In terms of progress:

I have hit nightmare A2 going solo from A4 normal on. I have been rolling between 2 characters and bringing a 3rd along: mentalsin, fire trapper, es light sorc (which i started leveling after I hit nightmare).

- Mentalsin is mainly for bosses, as it's only a 40 point build and the tab makes for a strong fade/clawblock/shadow master, as well as not having counters with psychic hammer. Not very good with trash (mind blast converts too often, for too long, not enough aoe, not enough damage, no physical pierce available except amp which isnt enough, mana-costly). It's a matter of gearing for the bosses to mitigate damage, and with much smaller HP pools, red potions become a lot more useful. There are some very shitty gear options for weapons though on this character (runewords are good but good luck finding the runes for the appropriate level - I will be making a suggestion for a fix on runes. Finding level 40 and 50 runes when youre hitting level 80+ is so stupid).
- Fire trapper and light sorc are for trash and maybe some bosses that the mindsin cannot handle. The gear options here are better.

As mentioned before, it's about mitigating the damage you take, taking your time to run around, dodge attacks, cast when you can etc. The battles are longer but not really more difficult... it's about gear and potion preparation. A lot of times people just don't bring enough rejuvenation/health/mana potions and say "this is too hard to progress without a party or better gear," but most of the time its all available to you (runes/runewords excluded).


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:01 am
Posts: 88
As a result of the experience so far, I would like to see juvs removed, hp buff skills reduced by 50%, and reds buffed a lot, like double for barbs and dins, tripled for everyone else. Reds are so bad on druids it's not even funny.


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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:24 pm 
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the only problem i see about removing juvs is having no way of dealing with big spikes of damage (there are a lot of them in hu)

we could add another form of mitigation. Like a Fire Retardant Potion that temporarily increases your max fire sorb or res and is on maybe a minute cooldown, so if you get caged+firestorm+lightning hosed at diablo you have an option besides die or s/e, for example

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 Post subject: Re: no hp buffs crusade!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:12 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 495
we hit hell a4 but to be honest i've been rather disappointed with the push. i was hoping for more of a challenge from not having hp buffs. so far none of the bosses we've fought was really that hard. nm baal was a longer fight that the rest but not terribly difficult.


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