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 Post subject: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:30 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:21 am
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Thought
Level 31
2 Socket:
Sorceress Orbs
Dol
Tir
+1 to Sorceress Skills
+25 to Energy
+10 to Vitality
+10 to All Resists
+10% Faster Run Walk
Level 3 Might Aura when Equipped
+12 mana per kill
+24 life per kill

...what the?


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:43 am 
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Sorc with a5 merc. Want another clue?


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:52 am 
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This is a party friendly mod.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:09 pm 

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I didn't know party friendly meant giving random auras to classes that can't benefit from it themselves at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:22 pm 
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You forgot to mention a good deal of the classes that want Might Aura, can just hire an A2 mercenary (who's Might is stronger with a bigger radius) with no real trouble to themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:42 pm 
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WolfStar wrote:
I didn't know party friendly meant giving random auras to classes that can't benefit from it themselves at all.


...

tonykantos wrote:
Sorc with a5 merc. Want another clue?



Yet another one:
Sorc teaming along with melee chars who dont have any offensive a2 mercs.

And I think its enough reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:43 pm 
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Because a 75% off-weapon damage boost, along with a 13.3 radius is really going to significantly benefit your melee friends at level 31?

When you could use one of the already provided sorceress staff runewords, which give at least +6 skills to your skill of choice, if not +9. This easily gets your through til 53 for Wisdom.

There's no real reason to use this crappy orb over the three elemental staffs. It doesn't even provide useful mods that the staffs lack such as FCR and -Res.

I'd rather have a sorceress that does a lot more damage than boosts my melee character sub-par trash killing skills.

People tend to act like damage and trash-killing isn't a party friendly asset to have. Melee is slow, and it's appreciated to have someone who can actually kill trash at a decent rate.


Also, sorc with an A5 merc? Really? If you're a sorceress and you're relying on your mercenary to dish out your damage, you failed.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:20 pm 
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It's only Dol Tir. Not meant to be super powered, just offer some variety.

I would say that with the early set bonus boost where all sets now give +2 skills, that a low level sorc without a lot of super gear would be very happy to have this in a nice orb to go along with Hsaru's set.

The staff runewords are supposed to out power it, since a staff = less safety.

A little extra dmg helps your merc leech a little better and that is always nice. If you don't like the runeword that much though, that is fine. The goal was just to provide a few new items out there for people not drenched in items and who want to play in teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:21 pm 

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Abominae wrote:
Because a 75% off-weapon damage boost, along with a 13.3 radius is really going to significantly benefit your melee friends at level 31?

When you could use one of the already provided sorceress staff runewords, which give at least +6 skills to your skill of choice, if not +9. This easily gets your through til 53 for Wisdom.

There's no real reason to use this crappy orb over the three elemental staffs. It doesn't even provide useful mods that the staffs lack such as FCR and -Res.

I'd rather have a sorceress that does a lot more damage than boosts my melee character sub-par trash killing skills.

People tend to act like damage and trash-killing isn't a party friendly asset to have. Melee is slow, and it's appreciated to have someone who can actually kill trash at a decent rate.


Also, sorc with an A5 merc? Really? If you're a sorceress and you're relying on your mercenary to dish out your damage, you failed.


couldnt have said it better myself. this might aura is fail. if you are a sorc in a party, there is no reason to be sacrificing your damage considerably so that melee characters in your group get a tiny boost in damage (lvl 3 might is tiny). your role is to kill shit quickly, and nobody is doing it with that weapon.

besides, if you have an act5 merc, you must be at least level 45 or so unless youve been rushed, and by then there are much much better items for a sorc to use. to say that you use it for an act 5 merc is retarded


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:41 pm 
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+6 skills, might, defiance, res etc etc. I would probably use that over +9 skills on hc.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:34 pm 

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Agreed with Abominae. The whole point of a sorc in the group is for mad dps. Sacrificing that for a pitiful level 3 might aura which is going to add hardly any damage to any melee characters in the group is just contradictory. Also, if you are relying on this to boost your a5 merc...hahaha, all I can is "lol." Giving your merc might instead of giving yourself more skills is just choosing the wrong path for damage.

Also, I'm all for variety, I really am, but at least make it USEFUL variety. Meditation, cleansing, prayer something that the sorceress herself can use, and not some pitiful level 3 aura.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Sure - come up with another sorc orb runeword if you want. Medit and cleaning are obviously not going to happen on a Dol/Tir runeword. Prayer strikes me as more pointless than Might - but that's just me I guess.

I can see this one being useful to players though so I am sticking with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:59 pm 

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Can't wait to see how many people use it.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:59 pm 
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Utter wrote:
+6 skills, might, defiance, res etc etc. I would probably use that over +9 skills on hc.


I don't understand where your math is coming from...

I'm assuming you're referring to Hsarus set, giving a +2 skill bonus and the sorc orb giving +1. I don't understand where this extra +3 is coming from.

Hsarus is fine, but the combo of Lenymo and the staff runeword is a +10. Unless I'm completely blind to something, I don't see any other piece of caster gear that interferes with using a staff at that point in the game.

Fact of the matter is, even Mage Rock > this. Offers FCR, 2 sockets, and +skill damage, which is useful early game. It's also available early game.

I don't have any suggestions on how to change this, because honestly, the entire runeword is unnecessary. Sorcs have more than enough gear, especially of the orb and staff variety. Wisdom was a very good addition, it actually fills a gap in the sorc gear, but I really just view Thought as useless.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:30 pm 
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making it in a +3 skill orb is where he is getting the extra +3 from.

What you are saying is great IF you happen to have found a +3 staff that you like AND have found leymo.

If however, you have found a really sweet orb (say +3/+3 of 2 useful skills), then it is great to have a low level, inexpensive runeword to be able to make it in rather than looking at the orb and say - wow, this is sweet but totally useless to me since it is going to be a while before I will have an Ist kicking around.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:22 pm 
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My bad, I was completely ignoring the fact orbs get skills.

Anyway, IF you find a staff? You can shop for any staff you need in a1/a2. It's the orb that's hard to find. And IF you can find a Lenymo? In my experiences, Lenymo drops like candy in Act 1.

I don't see where you're making real relevant points. Finding an orb with +2/3 skills, and a Dol rune (at level 31) is quite the task, where as shopping a staff and finding a lenymo is incredibly easy.

It's just a unnecessary runeword and was useless to implement. Sorcs have gear covered very nicely in those level ranged, and it's easier to obtain the staves than it is the orb.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:37 pm 
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Abominae wrote:
It's just a unnecessary runeword and was useless to implement. Sorcs have gear covered very nicely in those level ranged, and it's easier to obtain the staves than it is the orb.


That is your opinion. I happen to believe it is the wrong opinion, but you are welcome to it.

Either way, I don't see a need to delete an item and since there aren't any good suggestions for tweaking it I see no reason to not leave it alone.

How about putting your time to better use and coming up with a good low level (35 or below) runeword for helms so that Druids and barbs have something cool to do with their class specific items?

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:23 pm 
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change it to level 5 meditation on equip. That gives the sorc herself an fcr boost (that they need around that stage) the self mana regen is stronger on medi for the user and the fcr boost is for the user only too iirc (could be wrong). meaning that there would be less sorcs all depending for the merc for medi (better having it yourself for bosses especialy)

I see nothing wrong with a level 5 medi since you can get it on a merc at level 27 easily

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:30 pm 
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medit is too strong. you can go with an Insight staff if you want Medit.

This runeword is designed to be somewhere between the 2 uniqs:

+1 to Sorceress Skill Levels
+20% Faster Cast Rate
+10% to Fire Skill Damage
+10% to Cold Skill Damage
+10% to Lightning Skill Damage
Socketed (2)

+1 to Sorceress Skill Levels
+20% Faster Cast Rate
-10% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-10% to Enemy Cold Resistance
-10% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+10 to Energy
Socketed (2)

The uniques do better offense with their fast cast, dmg modifiers and sockets, but have fewer specific skills, less mana, no resists and don't have the mana/life on kill. The lvl3 might is just a random icing on the cake - the other aspects of the runeword are where the real power is. If you try to add a powerful aura on there as well, you will disrupt the balance of this item and make staves less potent.

Also a very important thing to always keep in mind when balancing sorc orbs is the spirit runeword:

+1 to All Skills
+25% Faster Cast Rate
+25% Faster Hit Recovery
+20 to Vitality
+250 Defense vs. Missiles
+90-120 to Mana
Poison Resist +33% (In Shields)
Cold Resist +33% (In Shields)
Lightning Resist +33% (In Shields)
500% Thorns Damage (In Shields)
Attacker Takes Lightning Damage of 50 (In Shields)

You can pretty much add those list of attributes to any Sorc orb you are going to design.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:14 pm 
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the rw has no %skill damage and no %pierce. those are both extremely important to a sorc. Also no sockets free to give it pierce. I see no problem with puting a low level meditation on it to keep the caster theme. Uniques will always be better than runewords since they have free sockets to give additional pierce.

The staffs give more + skills by a long way and are alot easier to make/find the base item. They also give some +skill damage% and mana on kill anyway. Having the benefit of a shield is no real use without a decent investment in dexterity anyway.

Even with the added medi aura I highly doubt I would use that orb anyway. 2 flawless rubys/saphs/topaz's 2 levels later in the level 20 sorc orb is still alot better and once you hit 40 you have an even better unique orb with even more pierce. At least give it something useful so people will actualy bother with it.

All runewords should be slightly more powerfull that the unique counterparts since you can socket the uniques to get extra bonuses. Runewords are used alot less than uniques and sets and that trend gets even worse as you continue up the levels. There are a select few runewords that are worthwhile over other choices. The majority are weak in comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:22 pm 

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Not to the mention the fact that who is going to find a dol by 30? 30 is what, act two or three on normal? You don't find that stuff until act five and beyond. 90% of the runewords are never used because, although some runeword might be useful at level 20, who is going to have all the runes and the weapon to use it then (WITHOUT twinking)? All the uniques give just as much bonus as the runewords, are easier to find and also get a socket. This little orb runeword will never be used except by someone wanting to show off the might aura as a joke. As a joke.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:24 pm 
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WolfStar wrote:
Not to the mention the fact that who is going to find a dol by 30? 30 is what, act two or three on normal? You don't find that stuff until act five and beyond. 90% of the runewords are never used because, although some runeword might be useful at level 20, who is going to have all the runes and the weapon to use it then (WITHOUT twinking)? All the uniques give just as much bonus as the runewords, are easier to find and also get a socket. This little orb runeword will never be used except by someone wanting to show off the might aura as a joke. As a joke.


Finding the Dol with your first no-twink character may very well be difficult, but passing it down to your second or third character is easy.

There are 3 orb runewords:
Dol Tir
Ist Ko
Zod Cham

Zod Cham is something that is hard to put together and really only something obtainable after you have lot of gear or friends who can help you.

Ist Ko is something that you can probably make after you get a character in Hell.

Dol Tir is something you can make after you get a character in late A5 or NM.

Quite often people will run a character until they hit the brick wall of the Baal quest. While they are waiting for a group to get the quest done, they may start up a second character. Dol Tir lets them have a decent runeword to work with. It is on par with the uniques of that level - not better, not worse - just different. It is less powerful than the staff runewords, but a staff takes 2 hands - we have already covered that.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:13 am 
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Abominae wrote:
bla bla bla arguments


If you dont like the item, dont use it. =/

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:06 am 

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tonykantos wrote:
Abominae wrote:
bla bla bla arguments


If you dont like the item, dont use it. =/


With that line of thinking this mod wouldn't even exist. "Don't like Diablo II? Just leave it."


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:52 am 

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Wow, so much free time to belittle someone's idea. How about positive feedback with suggestions and not so much negativity. In case you have forgotten, the designers of this mod have spent time working hard to give you something fun to do and free of charge to boot. So before you go around knocking an idea, swish it around in your mouth first before swallowing. Thanks for your hard work, blue_myriddn. I think you're doing a great job. I have an Associate's Degree in Animation and find your guys' work to be quite something. Hell, my brother has two sorcs and he's using your new runeword orbs during that stage. Untwist the panties, boys. Take a deep breath and continue playing the free mod you were given.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:58 am 

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Wow, so much free time to belittle someone's idea. How about positive feedback with suggestions and not so much negativity. In case you have forgotten, the designers of this mod have spent time working hard to give you something fun to do and free of charge to boot. So before you go around knocking an idea, swish it around in your mouth first before swallowing. Thanks for your hard work, blue_myriddn. I think you're doing a great job. I have an Associate's Degree in Animation and find your guys' work to be quite something. Hell, my brother has two sorcs and he's using your new runeword orbs during that stage. Untwist the panties, boys. Take a deep breath and continue playing the free mod you were given.
This is sad - I've had to post this for two of the new runewords. Just don't use them then.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:42 am 
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ericrboone wrote:
Wow, so much free time to belittle someone's idea. How about positive feedback with suggestions and not so much negativity. In case you have forgotten, the designers of this mod have spent time working hard to give you something fun to do and free of charge to boot. So before you go around knocking an idea, swish it around in your mouth first before swallowing. Thanks for your hard work, blue_myriddn. I think you're doing a great job. I have an Associate's Degree in Animation and find your guys' work to be quite something. Hell, my brother has two sorcs and he's using your new runeword orbs during that stage. Untwist the panties, boys. Take a deep breath and continue playing the free mod you were given.



So because someone created a free mod, they are completely exempt from criticism and discussion that will help improve the mod?

People always want to use this excuse when players complain about things wrong with the mod, but honestly, it's bullshit. We put in tons of time into this mod, and this is the suggestion forum. We have a right to have an opinion and argue about the usefulness of such items.

We, the players, play the mod more than the mod-creator does. That's not to say this discredits him in anyway, because we really do appreciate the work he's put into this amazing mod. The simple fact of the matter is, we play it more. It's coming to the point where a lot of people know his mod better than he does. That's not bagging on Soulmancer; I understand people have lives and responsibilities. It's just the simple truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:54 am 
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WolfStar wrote:
tonykantos wrote:
Abominae wrote:
bla bla bla arguments


If you dont like the item, dont use it. =/


With that line of thinking this mod wouldn't even exist. "Don't like Diablo II? Just leave it."


Badass :'(

If you dont like the item, that doesnt mean everyvody dont like it.

I personally enjoy silly/weird items with silly/weird stats. ^^

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:57 am 
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Abominae wrote:


So because someone created a free mod, they are completely exempt from criticism and discussion that will help improve the mod?
.


No. U should read with more care. He says that if you want to be critic with items, u should give viable alternatives for it.

Viable = game balanced = not overpowered = no meditation aura on 1 hands for low lvl sorcs.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:29 am 
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ya - I don't think anyone is really upset when people post good ideas on this forum. There is certainly TONS to improve in this mod. It is really annoying though to see arrogant posts with just complaints.

example:

Daggers are stupid, they break before you can do anything with them. How is it any use to put all this %ED and leech on a weapon that you can't feasibly use for melee?

vs

Seems to me that the dagger class could use a durability buff. Without about a 10-20 base durability on them, they are weaker than even the durability of most wands (60). Bringing them up to over 100 durability in the weapons.txt would really make it a lot less painful to use them and increase their viability.

Not only is the second one a heck of a lot nicer to read, but it also gives very specific and useful information showing that you have researched the topic and given it serious thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:24 am 
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tonykantos wrote:
Viable = game balanced = not overpowered = no meditation aura on 1 hands for low lvl sorcs.


Yeh, coz a sorc cant make insight in a flail and get a massive fcr and mana regen boost with 1 hand... 4 levels before they get that sorc orb rw and with a much higher level medi. The orb has no pierce or +% OR sockets to add pierce.

But yeh, no point making runewords usefull when theres so many useless mods to add to an already short list of 12 stats max...

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:31 am 
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Insight has been overpowered for a long time - no reason to use it as a measuring stick for other items.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Runeword
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:14 pm 
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insight is fine. People pretty much only use it on an a2 merc. Windys ocasionaly use it in a flail and hammerdins use it early game. 10-15 levels after you can use it there are way better options, so its a good weapon to use for non sorc casters. It mainly means you can carry less mana potions with you and have more room for reds. Thats not overpowering, its called usefull. Most runewords lack real use. Out of all the runewords, more than 50% are pretty much unused and useless

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