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 Post subject: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:06 am
Posts: 1195
I feel like I'm close to a finished product until people can test it and find any bugs or any other problems.

Here is a download link please test it.

Download link


General
-changed skill reqs from 1,6,12,20,28,36 to 1,6,12,18,24,30
-barb gets 15 hp/lvl, pal gets 10 hp per level, the rest get 5 hp per level and everyone gets 12 hp per vita; this will give vita more value now

Levels/Monsters
-rebalanced monster and boss strength
-rebalanced the hell xp curve so that act1-3 is monster level 81-87, before it was 71-87 ish
-countess highest rune drop in hell is now Lo
-reduced champ gold drops in norm/nm and increased in hell
-new shortcut to sszak
-reduced bonecage hp
-fixed realm of slain invisible wall
-fixed hell lancers in challenge 1
-fixed exp exploit in challenge 2
-reduced difficulty of challenge 3

Act 5 Hell/95 rebalance
-lvl 95 items are now ilvl 95 again and can drop in lvl 95 and above areas
-Level 95+ areas in hell now:
-Shenks Tower
-Arreat Plateau and onward
-bloodyfoothills and frigid highlands are NOT lvl 95 areas

Items
-greatly reduced the chance to gamble sets and uniques, it is now similar to 1.3 chances

-removed stat based increases from potions
-hp pots increased to 60% over 6 seconds
-mana pots restore 100% + 200 over 12 seconds

-reduced absorb on gems by about half chipped is 1% and uber is 5%
-redcued lifesteal and manasteal on skulls and amn runes by about half
-reduced the str req on the high-end weapons and armor to a max of 200
-rebalanced crafts; they were a bit too strong before compared to uniques I reduced the power of some of the stronger ones
-reduced the hp% on all armors by a a lot; the most an armor will have now is about 10%
-removed dr/hp% affix from magic/rare
-removed ele/mag/psn pierce affix from magic/rare armors and helms
-removed jewel requirement from magic -> normal cube recipe
-revamped gem buying: A1:chipped/flawed, A2:normal, A3:flawless, A4:perfect, A5:SS and MS....all gems can be purchaed multiple times on all difficulties now

-purple dye = health pot + blue pot + amethyst
-fixed claw staff mods

-various changes to some uniques to balance them out
-changed veil of steel to be more inline with COA
-reduced flat damage on gnarled root and hatestorm crest
-reduced max dmg on phys facets to 20-25
-wisp gives level 1 charges now, removed mag pierce and mag res; added new ring with magic pierce and magic res to compensate for magic builds
-removed fade from spirit ward; increased all res from 40 to 60
-buffed facets from 3-5% to 4-5%

Amazon

Valkyrie
-Buffed Valkyrie HP and defense

Innersight
-fixed innersight
-innersight now gives -1% enemy defense per lvl

Perfection
-res from perfection is no longer based on hard points in strategy; it now scales with diminishing returns from 1 to 25

Magic Arrow
-added a small nova to magic arrow on hit

Lightning Strike
-increased lightning strike base elemental damage by 100%; reduced mana cost to 8

Impale
-updated impale skill desc

Strafe
-fixed strafe, max of 6 arrows on a single target with 20 hard points

Guided Arrow
-set GA mana cost to a flat 10

Dodge/Avoid
-max dodge and evade % reduced from 75% to 25%

Pierce
-redcued max pierce from 75% to 50%

Assassin
-increased venom, fade and BoS base duration to 1 hour
-increased blade shield base duration to 3 mins

Charge-ups
-rebalanced elemental charge up damage; 2nd and 3rd charges no longer cause counters; claws of lightning has a new triple lightning meteor for the 3rd charge
-made chargeups uninterruptable

Claw Block
-reduced claw block to a max of around 50
-removed fbr from claw block

Shadows
-buffed shadows hp

Bladefury
-blade fury is now a ranged single target skill again that shoots 1 blade for 1/1 weapon damage and pierces all enemies

Bladeshield
-bladeshield reduced to 1/4 weapon damage
-increased time bettween attacks on blade shield from .5 sec to 1 sec

Cloak of Shadows
-moved def% from COS to claw mastery

Fade
-fade res and curse reduction now scales with diminishing returns from 1 to 50


Barb

Frenzy
-frenzy reduced to 1/1 weapon dmg

Battle Orders
-now 1% per 4 pts

Concentrate
-increased concentrate dmg/ar per lvl from 25% to 40%


Druid
-feralrage/maul/fireclaws/frostbite cannot be interrupted
-fixed summon hp
-increased armageddon and hurricane base duration to 5 mins

Molten Boulder
-increased the speed of molten boulder and set it back to 1 boulder per cast

Oak Sage
-removed hp% from oaksage; replaced with 5+(blvl/4)+(lvl/4) fire/cold/lit pierce

Spirit of Barbs
-reduced SOB absorbs from 10% max to 5% max

Ravens
-buffed ravens sigificantly; max of 10

Fireclaws/Frostbite
-same dps, slower speed, less counters, less mana cost
-changed animation from bite to feralrage animation
-increased lvl 1 base damage by 100%
-increased tier 1-5 damage by 50%
-reduced mana cost to 3 scaling down to 1
-increased shockwave tier 5 damage by 50%


Necro
-fixed golems hp/dmg to be where to should be
-increased dmg/hp of skeletons slightly


Paladin
-removed the ias bonus from holy auras

Res Auras
-res auras absorb reduced to 5+(blvl/4)
-salvation now only gets 1 fire/cold/lit absorb per 4 self hard points for a max of 5% ele absorb

Blessed Hammer
-doubled blessedhammer mana cost

Smite
-dr% reduced to 1% per 2 hard points

Zeal
-added passive ias to zeal as long as you have at least 1 hard point in it so melee paladins can run any aura they want (defiance zealer, etc)
-increased zeal damage per level from 20% to 25%

Holy Fire
-increased holyfire damage by 10% on tier 4 and 5

Holy Freeze
-reduced max holy freeze slow from 40% to 10%

Holy Shock
-increased holyshock max tier 5 damage by 15%

Holybolt
-increased mana cost per level on holybolt by 0.5
-reduced the heal on holy bolt by about a third and gave it no variance in heal ammount her cast

Might
-increased might damage scaling to 60 + 20

Fanaticism
-increased ar per level on fanaticism from 10% to 20% and ed% from 6/12 to 10/20

Blessed Aim
-doubled ar bonus from blessed aim

Sanctuary
-reduced undead/demon damage/ar on sanctuary from 100+25 to 25+5


Sorc
-increased the missile speed of firebolt/icebolt/chargedbolt by 50%
-removed frozen armor as a synergy to frost nova/chilling armor/shiver armor and buffed the synergy bonuses to compensate
-added frozen armor as a synergy for icebolt and frozen orb as a replacement to cold mastery
-swapped the lvl req of FO and blizzard due to the above change
-increased warmth, shiver armor, chilling armor and ES base duration to 1 hour

Hydra
-fixed hydras :)
-removed firebolt as a hydra synergy and increased remaining synergies by 2% each and increased duration to 12 secs

Firebolt
-removed enchant and hydras as synergies to firebolt; increased synergy bonus from 22% to 30% to compensate

Flamewave
-reduced range of flamewave


Elemental Masteries
-removed the absorbs from mastery
-you can now only put 1 hard point in any ele mastery; once that 1 pt is in you get locked out of the other 2
-say for example you choose fire mastery, you will get:
-2% fire mastery per character level
-2% cold mastery per char lvl
-3.8% lit mastery per char lvl
-these values are based on slvl 55 mastery, you get 66% of the value of slvl 55 mastery at clvl 100 for 1 hard point, what about the other 33%? keep reading
-you also get 50% of your chosen elements pierce stat added to the other 2 elements pierce
-for example you choose fire and you have 100% fire pierce, then you will gain 50% cold and lit pierce
-you only need 1 hard point to get these benefits but if sorcs can still focus more on a single element and be rewarded.
-for 19 more hard points in your chosen mastery you get 7% fire/cold and 12% lit damage per hard point which combined with the per char level bonus at char level 100 is about the equivalent of a slvl 60 mastery

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Last edited by Mrawskrad on Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:02 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:06 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:22 am
Posts: 176
Location: Hungary
The problem with potions, that they say they heal 33% over time without any strength bonus. At diablo fight (which was after 1.5a) i noticed that they are not. It seemed ok prepatch. Now I tested it with both my chars and they healed around 12-13%, sometimes double amount. Do they crit?
I just wanted to warn you, I hope these further changes will solve this issue. Or is it just me?


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:36 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:58 pm
Posts: 225
Currently, the hell challenge map seems to make not only the game crash, but the whole server it is being hosted on (although it goes back up right away). The crash doesn't seem to be related to any part of the map in particular and seems to appear at random intervals. I've crashed basically everywhere on the map at intervals ranging from 30 seconds in the map to 10 minutes.

-----Feedback-----
I find it interesting that with all those changes, you didn't mention lifesteal once. I'd like to know what you think of lifesteal as it currently is on the realm(Lifesteal Versus potions).
Did you fix the path to Samheim being blocked?
Quote:
-reduced the hp% on all armors by a a lot; the most an armor will have now is about 10%

Sad, but if you reduced the damage spikes to compensate it should be fine. ( Hell challenge boss hitting for 7200 damage with the hp pools we have is kinda nuts, even if he's doable)
Quote:
-removed ele/mag/psn pierce affix from magic/rare

Erm, is there a particular reason for that change? Also, does it affect claws as well? Did you also fix the claws not having + skills?
Quote:
-rebalanced crafts; they were a bit too strong before compared to uniques I reduced the power of some of the stronger ones

This is the first patch where I wasn't completely decked out in crafted items by level 70. I was running around with upgraded uniques, sets and rares, gambled/rerolled if needed and I didn't feel the need to use anything crafted until I got tired of not seeing leviathan drop at level 94. No idea what you did in details, I just hope they weren't nerfed too badly.
Quote:
-greatly reduced the chance to gamble sets and uniques; no more gambling unleashed
Gambling has always been a great way to gear up when you're having difficulties progressing. Additionally, if you nerf crafts and we can't gamble gear, wouldn't it just make it incredibly difficult to find loot? We'd be running around with rares for a pretty long time.
Quote:
-new shortcut to sszak
Not complaining but was this necessary? It isn't exactly a maze to begin with.
Quote:
-reduced the str req on the high-end weapons and armor to a max of 200
Did you scale back the STR reqs of the other armors to compensate? Or was this change for cosmetic purposes?

-----Classes-----
Amazon:
Could you consider adding Enhanced lightning damage% on Lightning strike? Appart from dex/str and critical strike, you're not going to get a lot of damage on that skill, and it is divided in half. Additionally, could you write in the description of Impale that it suffers the same armor penalties as Berserk (along with getting pierce as well)?
Assassin:
Quote:
-increased fade and BoS base duration to 1 hour

Venom?
Elegant nerf to clawblock. I like it. Not sure if I like the def% moved from CoS to claw mastery, but at least I won't have to recast the damn thing every 30 seconds forever so that's fine I guess. A little bit of flat AR for kicks on claw mastery please?
Sorceress:
A while ago we got masteries getting synergies between each others but most builds are 60-80 points builds which makes building more than one element pretty difficult. If you have the time, could you take a look into that? It would be nice to see dual element sorceresses from time to time (outside the Frozen orb firewall which is probably the only viable dual build right now).

Thanks. I'm guessing this one would require a reset and ETA is a couple of months away?


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:22 am 
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Posts: 1195
Quote:
Currently, the hell challenge map seems to make not only the game crash, but the whole server it is being hosted on (although it goes back up right away). The crash doesn't seem to be related to any part of the map in particular and seems to appear at random intervals. I've crashed basically everywhere on the map at intervals ranging from 30 seconds in the map to 10 minutes.


I'll need more info on this. Can everyone confirms this happens to them as well?

Quote:
-----Feedback-----
I find it interesting that with all those changes, you didn't mention lifesteal once. I'd like to know what you think of lifesteal as it currently is on the realm(Lifesteal Versus potions).


It could be toned down a little.

Quote:
Did you fix the path to Samheim being blocked?


Yes.

Quote:
Sad, but if you reduced the damage spikes to compensate it should be fine. ( Hell challenge boss hitting for 7200 damage with the hp pools we have is kinda nuts, even if he's doable)


I'm doing both. Ye of little faith. The idea of of hp%/dr as an affix is cool but its too strong and the game becomes a crafting circle jerk. Its just not fun. So I am removing it from the magic affix pools, reducing the amount found on sets, rws and uniques and balancing around smaller hp pools.

Quote:
Erm, is there a particular reason for that change? Also, does it affect claws as well? Did you also fix the claws not having + skills?


Same reason as above. OP and unnecessary. Of course claws are affected they are weapons just like any other weapons.... Yes claw staff mods are fixed.

Quote:
This is the first patch where I wasn't completely decked out in crafted items by level 70. I was running around with upgraded uniques, sets and rares, gambled/rerolled if needed and I didn't feel the need to use anything crafted until I got tired of not seeing leviathan drop at level 94. No idea what you did in details, I just hope they weren't nerfed too badly.


They are still good and some have niche uses still.

Quote:
Gambling has always been a great way to gear up when you're having difficulties progressing. Additionally, if you nerf crafts and we can't gamble gear, wouldn't it just make it incredibly difficult to find loot? We'd be running around with rares for a pretty long time.


Calm down. I buffed the chances in 1.5 and now I'm just bringing them back to where they were before. You can still get items from gambling if you have trouble killing blood raven.

Quote:
Quote:
-new shortcut to sszak
Not complaining but was this necessary? It isn't exactly a maze to begin with.


Some people asked for it. After years of running that same long map it will be a nice break.

Quote:
Did you scale back the STR reqs of the other armors to compensate? Or was this change for cosmetic purposes?


Yes.

Quote:
Could you consider adding Enhanced lightning damage% on Lightning strike? Appart from dex/str and critical strike, you're not going to get a lot of damage on that skill, and it is divided in half.


I don't see why this is needed it is meant as an aoe attack for melee zons, physical focused or lightning focused. Try using high melee damage character with it.

Quote:
Additionally, could you write in the description of Impale that it suffers the same armor penalties as Berserk (along with getting pierce as well)?


Okay.

Quote:
Venom?


Okay, I'll do blade shield too.

Quote:
Elegant nerf to clawblock. I like it.


Clawblock OP

Quote:
Not sure if I like the def% moved from CoS to claw mastery, but at least I won't have to recast the damn thing every 30 seconds forever so that's fine I guess.


Always qq

Quote:
A little bit of flat AR for kicks on claw mastery please?


Kicks have some of the best AR scaling in the game...maybe gear for more AR?

Quote:
A while ago we got masteries getting synergies between each others but most builds are 60-80 points builds which makes building more than one element pretty difficult. If you have the time, could you take a look into that? It would be nice to see dual element sorceresses from time to time (outside the Frozen orb firewall which is probably the only viable dual build right now).


This is a pretty low priority. Don't hold your breath. I think meteor is better than firewall for trying dual ele.

Quote:
Thanks. I'm guessing this one would require a reset and ETA is a couple of months away?


Yes and yes

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:43 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 522
revert to old blade fury ouch ;(


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:51 am 
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Passive skills are perfectly okay but be careful putting damage skills like hurricane, armageddon, and blade shield on for one hour....

(IE hurricane causing crazy counters and wanting to go pure nado on the boss.. if you get close and hurricane is still up.. blah)

there are circumstances where you don't want them on and would have to rejoin the game..... realistically 5-10 minutes is okay.

Another option would be if you could rework the skill to cast on and off... but I don't think that is possible and sounds extremely difficult rather than just adjusting the timer.

Everything else looks relatively good though mraw excellent work.


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:32 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 734
The skills like hurricane and armageddon being cast for one hour are an issue like hunter pointed out. You're setting yourself up for having to s/e just for every boss fight. The change is good, but might have to be changed so that when you cast it again it takes the skill off. The support/buff skills being an hour are great.

Blade fury change is good but there is an issue with it, i PM'd you about it.

Nerfing the life% and dr% mods is great. Love having characters being on a somewhat even playing field. Only thing is you should make certain defensive stats a bit tougher for casters to get than your tanks - there has to be a discrepancy either in the gear or the skills they have.

Sszak thing - thanks. Walking that long road is god awful and stupid.


I think certain skills need to be changed level requirement wise. Look at builds like hydra, cb/tk, icebolt/orb (just to name a few, notice how theyre all sorcs). A lot of these are AWFUL to play with until you hit late act 2 or mid act 3. The one thing I never agreed on here was having skills be such high level requirements. Having them be reduced by ~5-10 levels would be great. Maybe the synergies need to be switched around or certain skills should be offered earlier, or just have every skill available at or before level 24.


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:33 pm 
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Pious wrote:
revert to old blade fury ouch ;(


I'm going to turn it into a mini multishot clone where you need hard points to get more blades per cast.

hunterAS wrote:
Passive skills are perfectly okay but be careful putting damage skills like hurricane, armageddon, and blade shield on for one hour....

(IE hurricane causing crazy counters and wanting to go pure nado on the boss.. if you get close and hurricane is still up.. blah)

there are circumstances where you don't want them on and would have to rejoin the game..... realistically 5-10 minutes is okay.


Okay good point. How about 5 minute base. Then you can stop casting it 5 mins before a boss and be ready.

muleofal wrote:
Nerfing the life% and dr% mods is great. Love having characters being on a somewhat even playing field. Only thing is you should make certain defensive stats a bit tougher for casters to get than your tanks - there has to be a discrepancy either in the gear or the skills they have


I am doing that by reducing the strength of hp% on with uniques/sets/rw torsos and balancing around less player hp. Having hp%/dr spawn on armors will always be too powerful since if you make a craft and it doesnt have it you might as well reroll until it spawns. It just doesn't make for fun game play. I would rather have uniques/sets/rw be the only source of hp% (you can get dr% from saftey craft torsos). Crafts can also get 4 sockets which can almost make up for the lack of hp% (remember its only 5-10% now).

muleofal wrote:
Sszak thing - thanks. Walking that long road is god awful and stupid.


After 8-9 years I think we paid our dues to that map. :)

muleofal wrote:
I think certain skills need to be changed level requirement wise. Look at builds like hydra, cb/tk, icebolt/orb (just to name a few, notice how theyre all sorcs). A lot of these are AWFUL to play with until you hit late act 2 or mid act 3. The one thing I never agreed on here was having skills be such high level requirements. Having them be reduced by ~5-10 levels would be great. Maybe the synergies need to be switched around or certain skills should be offered earlier, or just have every skill available at or before level 24.


I don't see anything wrong with lowering skill level reqs across the board, since a lot of builds suffer from this problem. Maybe just revert it to the old D2 lod values. Then you could get all your skills by act 2 without grinding xp.

Now: 1,6,12,20,28,36
vs
LoD: 1,6,12,18,24,30

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:50 pm 

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Having it reverted to LOD levels i think would be great. It's nothing gamebreaking at all, it's probably only making the first 2-3 acts of normal a bit easier (which I think is a good way to get people accustomed to the gameplay).

It's been rough playing a CB sorc when at level 23 I have a maxed CB with +9CB from the staff runeword alone and +several more skills from lenymo/tarn/etc only to have it doing around 100 damage and still taking forever to kill minion trash. Or an orb/ice bolt sorc that has a single target spell that's hitting for 200 dmg and having to slog through until orb. Watching Durga use his dimoak hew bardiche to kill things one by one gets boring. It's made me abandon those characters because of it.

Again, the change probably will make act 2 and act 3 a bit easier considering some of the stronger skills are accessible a little earlier, but the community isn't big enough to be in groups all the time, and soloing on these characters is a chore, not entertainment. By river of flame/early act 5 normal, the earlier access to these late spells will be a moot point.


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:54 pm 

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Forgot to add, you said you changed the spawn to 8p but from what it seems is that if you load a game you'll get more experience per kill. Not sure if monster HP changed though. Is 1.5 actually 8p spawn or is that something you took out?


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:27 pm 
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tucker wrote:
The problem with potions, that they say they heal 33% over time without any strength bonus. At diablo fight (which was after 1.5a) i noticed that they are not. It seemed ok prepatch. Now I tested it with both my chars and they healed around 12-13%, sometimes double amount. Do they crit?
I just wanted to warn you, I hope these further changes will solve this issue. Or is it just me?


Nothing changed with potions from 1.5 to 1.5a. I can't help you much since I've played this patch more than anyone and I've never seen this issue. Can anyone else confirm having this problem?

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:31 pm 
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muleofal wrote:
Forgot to add, you said you changed the spawn to 8p but from what it seems is that if you load a game you'll get more experience per kill. Not sure if monster HP changed though. Is 1.5 actually 8p spawn or is that something you took out?


It appears to be a limitation of the game server if anyone familiar with D2 servers has any idea how to pull this off that would be great, but i think it is impossible to do on realm. HP values are the same for 1-8 spawn in 1.5.

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:15 pm 

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i like how the skill level progression is, 1 6 12 20 28 36, its not like its hard to get to 36, its doable in a2. i like the uniqueness of the hu way, its one of the reasons that makes hu hu.

to al, i agree that it sucks to have to play a shitty built for a while but why not just raise the tier 1 damage? you already switched my blizz with your orb :X and you already switched tk with your es so i have to invest another skill to get my tk and i have wasted a skill on es (qq) its not like its THAT difficult to get to get to 28. come on! get a merc and kill on. i got to 36 with a throwing axe on my barb and a merc and then i started gearing. np


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:27 pm 
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Good point Brian. I can buff the base damage and lower tier damage of these weaker skills so they don't struggle early game.

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:13 am 
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-elemental masteries (DUAL ELE SORCS WOOOOO!!)
-removed the absorbs from mastery (needed room for other stats and sorcs are getting a huge buff with this change)
-you can now only put 1 hard point in any ele mastery; once that 1 pt is in you get locked out of the other 2
-say for example you choose fire mastery, you will get:
-2% fire mastery per character level
-2% cold mastery per char lvl
-3.8% lit mastery per char lvl
-these values are based on slvl 55 mastery, you get 66% of the value of slvl 55 mastery at clvl 100 for 1 hard point, what about the other 33%? keep reading
-you also get 50% of your chosen elements pierce stat added to the other 2 elements pierce
-for example you choose fire and you have 100% fire pierce, then you will gain 50% cold and lit pierce
-you only need 1 hard point to get these benefits but if sorcs can still focus more on a single element and be rewarded.
-for 19 more hard points in your chosen mastery you get 7% fire/cold and 12% lit damage per hard point which combined with the per char level bonus at char level 100 is about the equivalent of a slvl 60 mastery
-WTF THIS IS A HUGE BUFF FOR SORCS QQ....well sorcs dont really add much besides pure damage and frozen armor so they kinda need to be good at what they do
-WTF THIS SOUNDS SO COMPLICATED....it's really not I made it very simple

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:54 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:58 pm
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In response to Mraw's last post --

Let me see if I understand correctly.
-Sorceress have 3 masteries, one for each element.
-Once you put a single point in one of them, the other two become locked.
-The masteries gain no bonuses for + skills.
-By putting 19 additional hard points in a mastery, a sorceress gains ~60% more elemental skill damage

This seems to fix various issues. One, sorcs are trash until they reach 36 and start pumping points in the mastery. At level 36. a single point in a mastery would give 72% fire/cold and 137% lightning mastery, an increase between 4.56x and 4.8x times the % a sorc would have with no + skills at that level. Two, it makes it easier for a sorc to get pierce for a secondary element.

Both of those are fantastic, but I feel like a lot of items are going to need revisions as a result. Additionally, since masteries get nothing from + skills, wouldn't this theorically make + skills have less of an impact on skill damage?

I didn't expect you to start working on dual element sorc fixes so soon. I look forward to seeing more progress on the next patch, its looking great so far.

One last that will seem offtopic(but I'm interested in the answer for future feedback purposes)
Have you ever played TGC like Magic The Gathering or something similar?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:12 am 
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Quote:
Additionally, since masteries get nothing from + skills, wouldn't this theorically make + skills have less of an impact on skill damage?


Not by much, most of a sorcs damage comes from the spells themselves being a high level. You still want as much +skills as possible.

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Have you ever played TGC like Magic The Gathering or something similar


No

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:32 am 
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Shit. I liked having 71% Block from Claw Block.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:02 am 
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LockDown wrote:
Shit. I liked having 71% Block from Claw Block.


Its impossible to balance blocking spells unless I give sins 25% the hp of other classes.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:25 pm 

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hah even with about half the hp you had on your barb mraw my sin was quite able to compete in the tanking department! clawblock 2 good


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:50 pm 
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half the hp, abs%, dr% and mag res as well. OP!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:56 pm 
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What would the progression look like wondering if I should re-roll to Pally now with 20 pts into claw block. If I can get 50%~ with less than that it'd be worth the re-roll time now.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:04 pm 
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skills level 1 no +skills it starts at 14% block

with +28 all skills and 1 hard point you get 24% clawblock

20 hard points and no +skills you get 52% block

20 hard points and +28 all skills you get 54% block

so if you want to block with claws you need to max it, but it scales quickly so you can tank up fast

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:08 pm 

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clawblock is still going to be amazing just not faceroll level. being able to block spells is a huge huge advantage over non spell blocking builds!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:17 pm 

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ao2005 wrote:
i like how the skill level progression is, 1 6 12 20 28 36, its not like its hard to get to 36, its doable in a2. i like the uniqueness of the hu way, its one of the reasons that makes hu hu.


This quote quite honestly is nonsensical to me. Boosting level requirements for skills makes this mod what it is? To me it's not a good reason at all and not anything of substance to back up your argument.

A sorceress has no access to passive buffs like the barb does to help with the leveling process. In addition, a barb will be statting a lot more strength and dexterity than a sorc will, leading to a lot more damage on things like throwing knives for them rather than a sorc. So for a build like CB/TK or icebolt/orb, these builds have to rely on a party to drag them through, or get lucky on good mercenary gear and slowly trek through the game until they get access to the skills. A blizzard sorceress gets access to glacial spike, which has aoe dmg and does a lot more damage than ice bolt does. As I said, coming from a place of several patches of experience with both builds, even twinked out CB/icebolt builds will suffer greatly until they get access to later skills.

My suggestions that I had posted (changes to energy shield, switching orb and blizzard) were for previous versions that were vastly different than the current 1.5 patch. In previous patches, an energy shield sorc had to wait until level 28 to get access to energy shield and had to level all the way until 28 with a very small life pool. With the new changes to life per level, having energy shield isn't necessary that early. TK and energy shield can be switched back to their original places. This still won't improve CB damage early on, but at least it will give the build access to TK to "maybe" help. I still think the build needs access to mastery earlier on. AS in my previous paragraph, icebolt is a single target 150-200 damage spell fully twinked out (+10-11 skills) and maxed until the sorc gets access to orb. It's absolutely awful to play with. Nobody should have to play a melee sorc or deal with such shitty damage for so long.

Leveling to 36 in act 2 is also an iffy argument for me. That's some serious leveling and running through the act. Most people won't get to level 36 until some time in act 3.

Buffing the damage could work but needs a lot of testing to make sure it doesn't affect end game damage and is still viable. And with regards to icebolt, the damage isn't the problem - it's that the build has no AOE until it gets orb.

If the old LOD levels aren't going to be restored, I propose:

- All cold skills in the middle path of the skill tab get shifted up one "level tier" each (ice bolt level 1, blast lvl 6, glacial level 12, orb level 20, blizzard level 28)
- TK gets put back to level 6, Eshield to level 12 or 20, teleport to 28. In addition, I believe teleport should be taken off of the prerequisite path and just put as it's own skill, if the sorc has no intention of skilling TK and eshield. Makes no sense to have it require 1 or 2 skills just to get it when it isn't a synergy and is a skill every sorc gets.
- enchant gets moved up to level 12. At least this gives the sorc herself and a merc some potential to level to 36. Or move hydra to 28. Or both.

The problem with my suggestions is that they are only for sorcs, when other classes also have certain issues with high level requirements on skills. That's why I ultimately think shifting the skill levels back to LOD values makes more sense. I'm not really sure what the reasoning against it is.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:30 pm 
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I'll change skill req to lod values and make TK lvl 6, ES lvl 18 and teleport level 24 with no prerequisites.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:34 pm 

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I think this new sorc mastery will backfire completely.

1) You're changing the progression of sorcs throughout the game with the changing values of the mastery damage per level. Because now if they aren't immediately skilling the mastery, they are losing damage, and if they do, they will be a lot stronger earlier in the game throughout probably half of normal and nightmare.
2) You're now giving sorcs the ability to be just as strong in one element as they currently are and almost as strong as in another element with the pierce and damage values. There needs to be some push back if you want to be dual element -> you shouldn't be as strong if you're going dual element as someone in single element.
3) there will need to be a ton of testing and balancing for this new thing.

Making complicated changes usually requires too much testing and balancing.

If you want dual element sorcs, the way to go about it is to leave the mastery as is and reduce the amount of synergies that a sorc requires for skills. That's what is holding back dual element sorcs. Making more builds 1 or 2 synergies would go a long way in improving the dual element sorcs.


Last edited by muleofal on Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:38 pm 

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Don't get me wrong, I think your idea to make dual element sorcs actually viable is great. I just think you're going about it the wrong way/making it a lot tougher on yourself to be able to successfully do it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:11 pm 
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But a dual element sorc will be weak early and mid game if they try to focus 2 elements at once. You have to remember sorcs still need skill points to invest in other skills. If a lvl 60 sorc has 30 points in a meteor build and 30 points in a blizzard build both will do shitty damage compared to someone who has 60 points into one build at level 60.

Also did you miss the part where hard points in mastery further increase the bonus?

But lets not just talk about it lets see some math.

All builds tested with +29 skills

Dual ele build 60 Meteor/40 Bliz 1pt mastery

38-41k meteor
18-19k bliz

Dual ele build 60 Bliz/40 Meteor 1pt mastery

28-30k bliz
25-27k meteor

Pure Bliz 20 hard point cold mastery

41-45k bliz

Pure Meteor 20 hard point fire mastery

56-60k meteor

what we see is 46% higher damage pure meteor vs fire focused hybrid and a 50% increase for pure bliz compared to cold focus hybrid


IMO these numbers are viable for all builds. hybrid will never come close to a pure build but hybrid damage is still capable of killing things, but it will be slower.

Theres nothing complex about this change I actually made it very simple.

muleofal wrote:
If you want dual element sorcs, the way to go about it is to leave the mastery as is and reduce the amount of synergies that a sorc requires for skills. That's what is holding back dual element sorcs. Making more builds 1 or 2 synergies would go a long way in improving the dual element sorcs.


That would be a lot more work actually. I'm already finished all the changes I mentioned. The work is done. Redoing synergies for all sorc skills would take much longer than it took to do this. and it would be the same result:

Max 2 synergizing skills on 2 trees and max 1 mastery

vs

max 3 skill build and 2 skills for partial synergy and 1 pt mastery

The only exception is that your suggestion would make dual element twice as good as a pure build since both builds get full synergy bonus. Which is what you seemed to be concerned about with the first part of your post or maybe I'm confused.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:26 am 

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i dont think hell baal drops shard.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:36 am 

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So here is a question regarding all of the item changes. Is there going to be a realm reset for this, or are you just going to implement it? If you start changing affixes and stuff like that, you're going to end up corrupting every character that has an item with that affix on it, much like it was when we did the patch on single player. Also, the armors not being able to roll life/dr anymore would be horrible. God that was the ONLY way I could tank as a melee char in this mod. Even then I would get raped by some stuff in less than a second. I would hate to see that go.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:35 am 
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Nova wrote:
So here is a question regarding all of the item changes. Is there going to be a realm reset for this, or are you just going to implement it? If you start changing affixes and stuff like that, you're going to end up corrupting every character that has an item with that affix on it, much like it was when we did the patch on single player. Also, the armors not being able to roll life/dr any more would be horrible. God that was the ONLY way I could tank as a melee char in this mod. Even then I would get raped by some stuff in less than a second. I would hate to see that go.



If you read the thread carefully, you will see that Mraw already said that these changes are for the next season.

That means for next reset few months away.

So I assume this thread is to gather feedback from current patch.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:38 am 

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Pious wrote:
i dont think hell baal drops shard.


Didn't he drop one when we beat him on sc? I think someone ninjad your shard!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:50 am 

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to Mraw:

The numbers you posted make it seem better than I originally guessed. How does it stack up early and mid game? It's a substantial change, and usually those require a good amount of testing. Do you have a sample patch available to test out? I'd be interested to try different combinations myself.

Also to ask a question: 1 hard point gives the % mastery bonus and pierce bonus to all classes, but any hard points after only give the % mastery to that element only correct? From what it looks like in the picture:

1 hard point in light mastery and level 94 = 188% fire, 188% cold, 357% light
19 hard points * 12% per hard point in lightning = 228%
Final totals = 188/188/585

The suggestion I made in regards to synergies but left out was to make masteries do full % bonus if you invest in one, and if you invest in another mastery each one does half of the original %. that's how I would cut down on having a sorc with 2 heavy damage elemental abilities.

Also thanks for the improved level reqs on skills. I really think it's a great quality of life change.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:06 am 

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Zen1337 wrote:
Nova wrote:
So here is a question regarding all of the item changes. Is there going to be a realm reset for this, or are you just going to implement it? If you start changing affixes and stuff like that, you're going to end up corrupting every character that has an item with that affix on it, much like it was when we did the patch on single player. Also, the armors not being able to roll life/dr any more would be horrible. God that was the ONLY way I could tank as a melee char in this mod. Even then I would get raped by some stuff in less than a second. I would hate to see that go.



If you read the thread carefully, you will see that Mraw already said that these changes are for the next season.

That means for next reset few months away.

So I assume this thread is to gather feedback from current patch.


Excuse me :P It must have been the 11 hour baal run and lack of sleep, I must have just glanced over it <3


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:24 pm 
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muleofal wrote:
to Mraw:

The numbers you posted make it seem better than I originally guessed. How does it stack up early and mid game? It's a substantial change, and usually those require a good amount of testing. Do you have a sample patch available to test out? I'd be interested to try different combinations myself.


Yes, you can test it here: 1.5b test files

Quote:
Also to ask a question: 1 hard point gives the % mastery bonus and pierce bonus to all classes, but any hard points after only give the % mastery to that element only correct? From what it looks like in the picture:

1 hard point in light mastery and level 94 = 188% fire, 188% cold, 357% light
19 hard points * 12% per hard point in lightning = 228%
Final totals = 188/188/585


That's right it all makes more sense and feels really simple and clean in game and there is no way to exploit it with softpoints if you use an orb or staff with +skills to the other masteries. That's the main reason softpoints add nothing. D2 limitations etc etc.

Quote:
The suggestion I made in regards to synergies but left out was to make masteries do full % bonus if you invest in one, and if you invest in another mastery each one does half of the original %. that's how I would cut down on having a sorc with 2 heavy damage elemental abilities.


Full synergy bonus at half mastery (your suggestion) does about 26% more damage than half synergy and 2/3 mastery (my suggestion). This is easy to test since I've changed all sorc builds to 60 points.

Quote:
Also thanks for the improved level reqs on skills. I really think it's a great quality of life change.


Yeah, I've been testing it and it feels pretty good.

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i dont think hell baal drops shard.


I'l check it out.

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Last edited by Mrawskrad on Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:35 pm 

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Hey al all your sorces die anyways! Zing!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm 

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ao2005 wrote:
Hey al all your sorces die anyways! Zing!


:lol: :lol: that was great! But I only had one sorc die though and conveniently it was a hydra/chant sorc because I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL LEVEL 9000 TO DO SOME PEW PEW!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:49 pm 

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muleofal wrote:
ao2005 wrote:
Hey al all your sorces die anyways! Zing!


:lol: :lol: that was great! But I only had one sorc die though and conveniently it was a hydra/chant sorc because I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL LEVEL 9000 TO DO SOME PEW PEW!


and that es sorc in nm getting 1 shot by a marlith!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:58 pm 

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ao2005 wrote:
muleofal wrote:
ao2005 wrote:
Hey al all your sorces die anyways! Zing!


:lol: :lol: that was great! But I only had one sorc die though and conveniently it was a hydra/chant sorc because I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL LEVEL 9000 TO DO SOME PEW PEW!


and that es sorc in nm getting 1 shot by a marlith!


The same ES sorc that tanked achmel in hell before the nerf?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:30 pm 

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Nono this is like 3 patches ago while going for rof wp


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Oh yea that motherfucker was a unique marilith that popped a lolcano right under my arse right after i got smacked by some mana burn grotesque. Good times!


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I was able to solo up to norm meph on a bliz/hydra hybrid sorc with the focus on bliz. Meph stopped me dead in my tracks and it looks to be nearly impossible to solo without some serious gear/time investment which i'm not going to do.

Anyways here is my impression up to char level 42.

My hard points are:

10 enchant
1 hydra
10 glacial spike
18 blizzard
1 pt cold mastery

The blizzard damage is good, but it would be a lot stronger if didn't put 10 pts in enchant and used them to synergize bliz. Hydra damage is terrible right now, but i still use it since its free damage with no counters. I could have gone pure bliz until clvl 60 but i wanted to try a hybrid from the start. The 2nd element feels really weak and it's going to be that way until I get around clvl 70-80 i suspect.

Since my sorc can't really tank bosses unless I gear in full tank gear then I'm going to edit a merc that will never die but does no damage to tank for me so I can continue to test the damage output of this build.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:06 pm 

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Almost forgot to mention, can we get a new crafting recipe for purple dye?


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Already done, forgot to mention

Edit: Update on my hybrid sorc. I got to act4 but I have given up since my damage is terrible trying to focus 2 elements at the start. If I were to make a hybrid sorc the way to go is focus one element until you max the build then start on your 2nd element. The 2nd element will do doing decent damage by the time you hit Hell so you have a way to handle immunes besides a merc.

Feels pretty balanced

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:14 pm 

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I think golems are in a good spot now life wise. Against bosses, 3 of them will go down instantly and the one left standings is the golem that has the resistance related to the boss. Even in that case, that golem usually needs recasting around the time of the cooldown. There are also numerous non-act bosses that one or two shot all golems.
Throughout all difficulties act bosses are too much for any golem and they die pretty much instantly, which is probably how it should be.

Damage wise golems seem fine for late normal, nm and hell, but the iron and force golems are a bit buff for acts 2 and 3 of normal.

Before 1.5a I would definitely agree that they were too buff life and damage wise, but that changed with the new patch substantially affecting the clay and blood golems, and to a somewhat lesser degree the iron and force golems.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:31 pm 
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Golems will remain about the same, only slightly less damage

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:15 pm 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
I'll change skill req to lod values and make TK lvl 6, ES lvl 18 and teleport level 24 with no prerequisites.


i thought we originally swapped ES and TK earlier because ES sorces were dead meat trying to get to 18. even with the new hp values the sorc wont make it very long, id say ES at level 1 still

and boo on lod values
is that for all classes?


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Man if you cant make it to level 18 with 35 hp per lvl then you're a huge nub. :P

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:12 pm 

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POTIONS:
Heal pots should heal based on vit and str.

BOSSES:
Counters. This isn't something that can be fixed easily, to my knowledge, but the sheer number of bosses that have dflight into deadly bullshit is ridiculous. The falling ceiling/rain of arrows/firewall counters are actually best suited. They don't blow up your tank for you DPSing, and they require you to react and move out of them. That said, they're just devastating at their current damage values, even to tanks.

Andariel probably shouldn't be have SOB or impossible status, at least other options should be available.

MONSTERS:
Iron golems are swinging for 10x the damage of the other golems. They're hitting for 750-800 through 100 PDR in a2 normal. 3-4k damage on the champs in nm.

Blood curse probably should punish you heavily for using spells during it rather than being an unavoidable counter that saps half of your health pool on vit chars and all of your health pool on ES characters.

NECROMANCER:
Summon necros should seriously have access to teleport much sooner, or at the very least a spell that slaps all your summons on top of you.

Summon blades should get a revamp of some sort.

I think decrepify and amp should have exactly the same pierce values/aoe on cast, where as decrep can usually only be thrown on by a necro(remove it from any items that has it), where as amp is readily available by anyone. This will add value to having a necro in the party.

SORCERESS:
Blaze should have a longer duration so you can use it beyond simply casting and running away. Firewall should burst it's DPS in damage once, thus solving the counterless DPS on both fronts.

The multiple element increase on the masteries is actually really cool, but it's unfortunate that you're incapable of synergizing multiple decent trees to any effect. Almost every effective tree is 60+20(mastery), which leaves not enough to gain much damage on anything else.

ES should be clarified it it's completely synergized via old TK already, or if points in ES are required. That said, if it's points in ES, it's silly since not every ES build has to be 95%.

AMAZON:
Decoy should have a higher % health, it's incredibly weak without the BO stacking upon BO.

Multi should do 1/1, not 3/4, or at the very least have a form of ED attached to it via something like crit strike. Making bowazons choose between defensive abilities and offensive ones.

Poison zon should be reverted to an earlier rendition or number crunched.

PALADIN:
Prayer could probably get a little boost in the healing department now that health is universally higher.

ASSASSIN:
Traps should not place at feet.

DRUID:
As much as I hate the oak nerf, I think it's fine since the class has other options.

Tornado should shoot a single nado that does double it's current damage. Less counters, more viability.

BARBARIAN:
BO needs to be somewhat appealing. 5% plus 2 every 4 softpoints seems nice. Make it at the very least something people will put points into. Why do armors give more than a skill?

Throw barbs, throwing weapons in general, can they be made to never run out of 'charges' like arrows?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:42 pm 

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Angel wrote:
POTIONS:
Heal pots should heal based on vit and str. - they get pretty strong with the strength boosting (stronger than old rejuvenation potions in the current patch). i have a feeling the ~8% life per second will be good. that will mean more damage spread out on bosses and less emphasis on big damage spikes.

BOSSES:
Counters. This isn't something that can be fixed easily, to my knowledge, but the sheer number of bosses that have dflight into deadly bullshit is ridiculous. The falling ceiling/rain of arrows/firewall counters are actually best suited. They don't blow up your tank for you DPSing, and they require you to react and move out of them. That said, they're just devastating at their current damage values, even to tanks. - i agree some of the counters are the worst things the bosses have. dflights awful in my eyes too but i dont think every single boss should have it removed.

Andariel probably shouldn't be have SOB or impossible status, at least other options should be available.

MONSTERS:
Iron golems are swinging for 10x the damage of the other golems. They're hitting for 750-800 through 100 PDR in a2 normal. 3-4k damage on the champs in nm.

Blood curse probably should punish you heavily for using spells during it rather than being an unavoidable counter that saps half of your health pool on vit chars and all of your health pool on ES characters. - yea its brutal. i agree on the blood mana curse being linked to casting, kind of like an iron maiden curse for casters. if your spell costs 50 mana, it should cost 50 life instead under the effects of the curse. And it really is horrible for an ES sorc.

NECROMANCER:
Summon necros should seriously have access to teleport much sooner, or at the very least a spell that slaps all your summons on top of you.

Summon blades should get a revamp of some sort.

I think decrepify and amp should have exactly the same pierce values/aoe on cast, where as decrep can usually only be thrown on by a necro(remove it from any items that has it), where as amp is readily available by anyone. This will add value to having a necro in the party. - i dont agree because then necros will just max decrepify only and it will be a lot stronger than amp. having the same physical reduction coupled with a speed and damage reduction is a huge difference.

SORCERESS:
Blaze should have a longer duration so you can use it beyond simply casting and running away. Firewall should burst it's DPS in damage once, thus solving the counterless DPS on both fronts. - i honestly think blaze needs changing because firewall is a good skill as is and blaze is kinda clunky and tough to balance correctly (buff it and a big frw sorc will shred bosses, leave as is and its kinda crappy). i have no good ideas at the moment though. definitely a good point though that both of the skills are basically the same thing and one should be changed.

The multiple element increase on the masteries is actually really cool, but it's unfortunate that you're incapable of synergizing multiple decent trees to any effect. Almost every effective tree is 60+20(mastery), which leaves not enough to gain much damage on anything else. - i think thats why he gave the masteries a % spell increase for all element types per character level, so that you can 1 point the mastery and be able to slot ~55 skills into each element/synergies. a couple pages back in this thread he gives some numbers examples and they look okay. the mastery maxing looks to be more for if you want to keep a single element sorc.

ES should be clarified it it's completely synergized via old TK already, or if points in ES are required. That said, if it's points in ES, it's silly since not every ES build has to be 95%. - its only synergized by ES itself and honestly i think it's better this way. Not every sorc wants to to be CB/TK or have to spend 20 points into TK to make ES effective. understandably its now tough to hit a certain es percentage but with the buff from 1.41 the shield gets a lot stronger (reduces dmg to 50% instead of the old 75% when TK was synergy). I think a maxed level 20 ES is also only ~75% shield or so? I'm not at home to check but will after. Maybe that is the key to balancing it --> have the shield progress slower levels 1-20 and then have bigger shield % after level 20.

AMAZON:
Decoy should have a higher % health, it's incredibly weak without the BO stacking upon BO.

Multi should do 1/1, not 3/4, or at the very least have a form of ED attached to it via something like crit strike. Making bowazons choose between defensive abilities and offensive ones.

Poison zon should be reverted to an earlier rendition or number crunched.

PALADIN:
Prayer could probably get a little boost in the healing department now that health is universally higher.

ASSASSIN:
Traps should not place at feet. - Too strong if placed outside. They have unbelievable range. I play a lot of trappers and i love them, but this would be too much.

DRUID:
As much as I hate the oak nerf, I think it's fine since the class has other options. - and oak will be buffed significantly in this 1.5b patch. 1% for 4 points to 1% per 3 is a big buff, and add in the fact that he is reducing %life from armors and gear, it'll become a lot more useful again but along the lines of the other 2.

Tornado should shoot a single nado that does double it's current damage. Less counters, more viability.

BARBARIAN:
BO needs to be somewhat appealing. 5% plus 2 every 4 softpoints seems nice. Make it at the very least something people will put points into. Why do armors give more than a skill? - see oak note. with the buff to bo planned for this patch (1% for 5 currently changing to 1% per 4 soft points) and the lowered %life from gear, itll be more useful. I do think it needs something along the lines of 1% per 2 hard points and 1% per 5 or 6 soft points though, making it worth investing in. That would make it's end game around 20-25%.

Throw barbs, throwing weapons in general, can they be made to never run out of 'charges' like arrows?


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:52 pm 
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Angel wrote:
POTIONS:
Heal pots should heal based on vit and str.

I'm just going to make it based on % max health same effect, except you won't have people maxing str for insane damage while having pseudo rejuvs. I've been testing it and it is working a lot better so far.

BOSSES:
Counters. This isn't something that can be fixed easily, to my knowledge, but the sheer number of bosses that have dflight into deadly bullshit is ridiculous. The falling ceiling/rain of arrows/firewall counters are actually best suited. They don't blow up your tank for you DPSing, and they require you to react and move out of them. That said, they're just devastating at their current damage values, even to tanks.

I'm adjusting boss/monster damage.

Andariel probably shouldn't be have SOB or impossible status, at least other options should be available.

I'm adjusting boss/monster damage.

MONSTERS:
Iron golems are swinging for 10x the damage of the other golems. They're hitting for 750-800 through 100 PDR in a2 normal. 3-4k damage on the champs in nm.

I'm adjusting boss/monster damage.

Blood curse probably should punish you heavily for using spells during it rather than being an unavoidable counter that saps half of your health pool on vit chars and all of your health pool on ES characters.

I'm adjusting boss/monster damage.

NECROMANCER:
Summon necros should seriously have access to teleport much sooner, or at the very least a spell that slaps all your summons on top of you.

OP

Summon blades should get a revamp of some sort.

They serve their purpose. Spam them on a boss and it doesn't move.

I think decrepify and amp should have exactly the same pierce values/aoe on cast, where as decrep can usually only be thrown on by a necro(remove it from any items that has it), where as amp is readily available by anyone. This will add value to having a necro in the party.

But a necro can max amp and get up to -30% where the most a proc can get is around -10. Necro has plenty of values and having one makes the game much easier already.

SORCERESS:
Blaze should have a longer duration so you can use it beyond simply casting and running away. Firewall should burst it's DPS in damage once, thus solving the counterless DPS on both fronts.

I will increase the buff duration to 1 hour.

The multiple element increase on the masteries is actually really cool, but it's unfortunate that you're incapable of synergizing multiple decent trees to any effect. Almost every effective tree is 60+20(mastery), which leaves not enough to gain much damage on anything else.

Dual ele as I have it implemented right now is more of a mid-late game advantage when dealing with monsters immune to your main element. Whats the point of a pure sorc when you can fully synergize two elements. Unless everyone wants all sorcs to be dual element and going for a pure sorc means you are wasting skills points. This is something that the community needs to discuss.

ES should be clarified it it's completely synergized via old TK already, or if points in ES are required. That said, if it's points in ES, it's silly since not every ES build has to be 95%.

It gets increased damage/mana ratio based on hardpoints in ES only right now. What i can do it make it get the bonus from TK and/or ES with a cap so you only need to max 1 to get the full bonus. This way you can choose low es or high es %. I can also make the description more descriptive.

AMAZON:
Decoy should have a higher % health, it's incredibly weak without the BO stacking upon BO.

Did you max it? How far did you get? I need details.

Multi should do 1/1, not 3/4, or at the very least have a form of ED attached to it via something like crit strike. Making bowazons choose between defensive abilities and offensive ones.

Bowa is already the best trash clearer

Poison zon should be reverted to an earlier rendition or number crunched.

She does the same damage as a psn necro while being tankier.

PALADIN:
Prayer could probably get a little boost in the healing department now that health is universally higher.

Healer op already. Having one in your party makes the game trivial. If anything they could use a nerf.

ASSASSIN:
Traps should not place at feet.

Traps are already insane this would be like godmoding

DRUID:
As much as I hate the oak nerf, I think it's fine since the class has other options.

Tornado should shoot a single nado that does double it's current damage. Less counters, more viability.

Tornados have a hit delay so the 2nd tornado only really adds aoe. Doubling the damage and removing one would just be a plain 100% dps boost.

BARBARIAN:
BO needs to be somewhat appealing. 5% plus 2 every 4 softpoints seems nice. Make it at the very least something people will put points into. Why do armors give more than a skill?

I'm getting rid of the huge hp% on armors and balancing around that. Bo and oak were nerfed to move away from mandatory hp buffs to progress. I'm increasing the bonus to 1% per 4 levels, but thats as far as I will go. If you want a huge BO then make a WC barb it is a synergy to wc now.

Throw barbs, throwing weapons in general, can they be made to never run out of 'charges' like arrows?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:55 pm 

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I just feel necro curses are replicated too readily and at too powerful a strength. A level 12 from cleglaws is about the same as a necros, where as you could add utility to the necro and let him bring something to the table.

But seriously on the oak/BO, even if soft points didn't matter and only hardpoints did you could balance it pretty well. A decent buff via the ability at 1 hardpoint, and more if you put points into it. Shit, armors are giving absurd amounts of life in comparison, even if they are toned down.

I think blood curse should not deal 1:1 damage, more like 1:5 or something. Spell costs 50, take 250 life to cast it. Make it reactive not auto fucked.

I mean the fire duration on blaze, not it's cast duration, unless that was sarcasm.

Lastly for ES, I think it should simply be fully "synergized" at all levels. Then the only choice is what ratio you want to have in terms of health to mana and the % it negates.


==============
In reply to mraw.

You could lower the damage but I think it defeats the purpose. It's supposed to be dangerous to cast with it on, like it's dangerous to attack with iron maiden.

Traps OP? I've not seen a single trapper this patch, and any in the past all they've done is leech.

Did not know that about tornado, seems fine then. I mean, maybe even add a third and have it go in a 45 straight 45 arc?

Healer's healing bolt is OP, the aura is trivial. I'd rather see holy bolt removed and the aura buffed, and the healerdin given a form of offense so they aren't just sit back and heal the tank. More provides a powerful buff to the team and contributes a bit more.

Poison necros suck. Poison zons suck.

Bowas clear semi-quick, but they are not at all the quickest. They lack mobility, they lack the ability to clear named packs quickly because they have to switch to GA.

Decoy with 1 point takes 1 hit. Decoy with 20 points takes 1 hit. The real way to balance it would be to give it flat health, since balancing it based on the health of the character can make it OP or underpowered in different circumstances.

Blades at one point could hold a boss semi in place, but it doesn't anymore.

If it's OP for a summoner to have teleport they shouldn't be allowed it at all.


Last edited by Angel on Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:07 pm 
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Angel wrote:
I just feel necro curses are replicated too readily and at too powerful a strength. A level 12 from cleglaws is about the same as a necros, where as you could add utility to the necro and let him bring something to the table.

lvl 12 amp on proc is -10 necro with maxed amp and no +skills is -23. that's a huge difference when bosses have 50-85 phys res

But seriously on the oak/BO, even if soft points didn't matter and only hardpoints did you could balance it pretty well. A decent buff via the ability at 1 hardpoint, and more if you put points into it. Shit, armors are giving absurd amounts of life in comparison, even if they are toned down.

Why make BO mandatory again? It's okay right now. You don't need it but if a WC barb has it then you can get ~13% hp increase which is huge since there is almost no other sources of hp% especially for casters. Hell even at 1% per 4 a non WC barb can get ~9% out of it, thats still worth having, it's not like barbs are hurting for skill points, as long as they max melee mastery then they skill up whatever they want and be effective.

I think blood curse should not deal 1:1 damage, more like 1:5 or something. Spell costs 50, take 250 life to cast it. Make it reactive not auto fucked.

The dmg you take per cast is hard coded the best I can do is reduce or remove the hpdrain to stop the qq

I mean the fire duration on blaze, not it's cast duration, unless that was sarcasm.

If the fire duration increases then it becomes a cheese build again. I was going to increase the buff duration so you dont need to cast it all the time, but maybe i'll leave it as it is.

Lastly for ES, I think it should simply be fully "synergized" at all levels. Then the only choice is what ratio you want to have in terms of health to mana and the % it negates.

That sounds like it could become really OP. All you need to do is find the sweet spot of ES% where you can out regen any mana damage and you get x% reduction on all damage, besides psn, with minimal skill investment.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:54 pm 
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"Traps OP? I've not seen a single trapper this patch, and any in the past all they've done is leech."

I've seen several, and they are as strong as ever.
Laying traps like in LoD simply should not, nor will it be done. (and trust me...it kills me to agree with them being laid at the feet...i just can't play one it makes me so sad...but i still agree with the status quo). It would be abused to no end by anybody with 1/2 a brain.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:23 pm 

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I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

A quick glance at the ladder shows blade fury, phoenix sin, dclaw.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:24 pm 
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Angel wrote:
==============
In reply to mraw.

You could lower the damage but I think it defeats the purpose. It's supposed to be dangerous to cast with it on, like it's dangerous to attack with iron maiden.

The dmg per cast is hard coded. I can't change it.

Traps OP? I've not seen a single trapper this patch, and any in the past all they've done is leech.

Sorry to sound like an asshole but if thats the case then you played with ultra noobs. Ive made both types and they are just insane easy mode.

Did not know that about tornado, seems fine then. I mean, maybe even add a third and have it go in a 45 straight 45 arc?

Impossible unless I change the entire way tornados work and I don't want to do that since they are unique and work well enough.

Healer's healing bolt is OP, the aura is trivial. I'd rather see holy bolt removed and the aura buffed, and the healerdin given a form of offense so they aren't just sit back and heal the tank. More provides a powerful buff to the team and contributes a bit more.

I agree with you there. Holy bolt is OP something needs to be done about it and if I buffed prayer then I think it would need to be more than a 20 pt build. Let me think about possible solutions.

Poison necros suck. Poison zons suck.

Nothing of value was lost. They aren't bad, they just aren't instant Hell Baal/Sammy/LOS anymore. They do their job which is reliable, relatively safe but slow boss DPS and support.

Bowas clear semi-quick, but they are not at all the quickest. They lack mobility, they lack the ability to clear named packs quickly because they have to switch to GA.

Bow ama is probably in my top 5 favorite classes. I buffed them for a reason. They are incredibly strong right now. I won't buff them anymore.

Decoy with 1 point takes 1 hit. Decoy with 20 points takes 1 hit. The real way to balance it would be to give it flat health, since balancing it based on the health of the character can make it OP or underpowered in different circumstances.

Are you full dex or on a vita amazon?

Blades at one point could hold a boss semi in place, but it doesn't anymore.

Oh well no more cheesing.

If it's OP for a summoner to have teleport they shouldn't be allowed it at all.

And have summon necros soloing the entire game starting at lvl X instead of level 80 is the only other option?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:14 am 
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Trappers: Yeah, it was early game in the last week or so, but they perform at least as well if not better early game. I've played through enough and looked at some files out of curiosity. They are fine. And by they...i guess i mean fire trappers. I rarely see anyone go light traps. I would if things still synergized with fire blast/bomb whatevertheheckitis...as you can see i haven't played one in awhile.

Holy Bolt. At least with holy bolt you actually have to shoot something, and someone. Making passives strong is not the way to go imo...haven't thought enough about other solutions, but I much prefer active healing skills to passive ones. If prayer is strong, it is just as bad if not worse than oak/bo was.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:30 am 
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Yeah you're right about prayer. I think its fine as it is. I'll probably just leave healers alone. Its such a boring build if someone wants to play it then go for it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:46 am 
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Patch has been just released, people run MA sins because this patch brought back melee and people (imo) wanted to do different builds then normal since no more need for annoying kiting.

I always done a light trap sin and no matter what patch she always performed very well especially for trash and some bosses even last patch. Done MA now. There is finally an opportunity for that.

But that's just my opinion.


Edit: I will be doing my usual light trap sin, and to be honest looking at the changes she will be even stronger then last patch since boss maps are now back to the old sizes.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:11 pm 
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Our party has a trap sin the damage has been ok. We're only in A4 nightmare though because I keep rerolling because my tank choices are terrible.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:09 pm 

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I've played healers in multiple patches, this one included. Sure, you do have to aim holy bolt, but it's not that hard of a task. It's both the skill that makes them incredibly overpowered and incredibly boring. Why use an attack when you can just heal a tank?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:28 am 
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Since we all discuss here possible changes I got one suggestion...

Ac4 hell 80% of stuff there has fire immunity. I understand that multi player is about team play and of course that's understandable, however it is pretty impossible for fire based builds to even get out of town...

Therefore it would be pretty cool to switch them immunities a bit.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:13 pm 

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Can the melee uniques which for some reason are massively increased level req be toned down so they're appropriate? Shouldn't have to craft weapons to remain relevant.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:02 pm 
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I haven't needed to craft any weapons this ladder. Uniques and RW all the way to hell baal. They never felt lacking.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:33 pm 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
I haven't needed to craft any weapons this ladder. Uniques and RW all the way to hell baal. They never felt lacking.

I agree with this for the most part, but for some classes, it is a lot better to craft still certainly. Being able to get 4 sockets on a massive ED roll can be super op.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:41 pm 
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some uniques and rw can be eth and crafting doesnt guarantee you CB. I think its pretty balanced right now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:14 pm 
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I updated the OP changelog give it a read through and I added a download link if anyone wants to test it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:01 am 
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Pious wrote:
clawblock is still going to be amazing just not faceroll level. being able to block spells is a huge huge advantage over non spell blocking builds!


I see the lack of FBR being the kicker here. Poison enchanted, lightning hose, hydra, being surrounded by lots of trash mobs at once, will be much more frustrating than it is now. Not like claws have block mods.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:27 am 

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FuryCury wrote:
Pious wrote:
clawblock is still going to be amazing just not faceroll level. being able to block spells is a huge huge advantage over non spell blocking builds!


I see the lack of FBR being the kicker here. Poison enchanted, lightning hose, hydra, being surrounded by lots of trash mobs at once, will be much more frustrating than it is now. Not like claws have block mods.

Essentially why I'm never using dual claws on a sin again. Clawblock has always been stupidly frustrating to use in melee range and without any free FBR coming from the skill, I'd rather get absorb.
You want to block spells while boosting your damage with two claws, fine, but you have to work for it. We'll see how many people keep using dual claws after this patch goes live.

Poison enchanted is going to be really, really bad though. Getting 86 FBR is going to end up being close to impossible, if not straight up impossible.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:40 am 
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Assassins will still be able to get 3frame block with the right gear and that's more than enough. I remember when clawblock didn't give fbr and dclaw assassins had no problems tanking bosses like samhain with little potions. Where as any other class needed to drink truck loads of juvs to stay on him.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:23 pm 
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I get ya man, but back then ( far, far, away patches ago... ;) ) There were different items and other possibilities, getting more fbr on parts of gear means saying no to better alternatives, but i guess we know that, after all you people most likely have more knowledge then me on balancing etc.

also back then ( whatever time line it is ) monster/boss values were completely different.

I'm not saying its a bad idea just there is many variables to take into consideration.

Just concerned about my favourite class in d2. :?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:04 pm 
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I updated the OP as well but here is the current change log. It's pretty close to being finished. I can't think of anything else that needs to be fixed. I would like for people to test it if they have time.

Download link


General
-changed skill reqs from 1,6,12,20,28,36 to 1,6,12,18,24,30
-barb gets 15 hp/lvl, pal gets 10 hp per level, the rest get 5 hp per level and everyone gets 12 hp per vita; this will give vita more value now

Levels/Monsters
-rebalanced monster and boss strength
-rebalanced the hell xp curve so that act1-3 is monster level 81-87, before it was 71-87 ish
-countess highest rune drop in hell is now Lo
-reduced champ gold drops in norm/nm and increased in hell
-new shortcut to sszak
-reduced bonecage hp
-fixed realm of slain invisible wall
-fixed hell lancers in challenge 1
-fixed exp exploit in challenge 2
-reduced difficulty of challenge 3

Act 5 Hell/95 rebalance
-lvl 95 items are now ilvl 95 again and can drop in lvl 95 and above areas
-Level 95+ areas in hell now:
-Shenks Tower
-Arreat Plateau and onward
-bloodyfoothills and frigid highlands are NOT lvl 95 areas

Items
-greatly reduced the chance to gamble sets and uniques, it is now similar to 1.3 chances

-removed stat based increases from potions
-hp pots increased to 60% over 6 seconds
-mana pots restore 100% + 200 over 12 seconds

-reduced absorb on gems by about half chipped is 1% and uber is 5%
-redcued lifesteal and manasteal on skulls and amn runes by about half
-reduced the str req on the high-end weapons and armor to a max of 200
-rebalanced crafts; they were a bit too strong before compared to uniques I reduced the power of some of the stronger ones
-reduced the hp% on all armors by a a lot; the most an armor will have now is about 10%
-removed dr/hp% affix from magic/rare
-removed ele/mag/psn pierce affix from magic/rare armors and helms
-removed jewel requirement from magic -> normal cube recipe
-revamped gem buying: A1:chipped/flawed, A2:normal, A3:flawless, A4:perfect, A5:SS and MS....all gems can be purchaed multiple times on all difficulties now

-purple dye = health pot + blue pot + amethyst
-fixed claw staff mods

-various changes to some uniques to balance them out
-changed veil of steel to be more inline with COA
-reduced flat damage on gnarled root and hatestorm crest
-reduced max dmg on phys facets to 20-25
-wisp gives level 1 charges now, removed mag pierce and mag res; added new ring with magic pierce and magic res to compensate for magic builds
-removed fade from spirit ward; increased all res from 40 to 60
-buffed facets from 3-5% to 4-5%

Amazon

Valkyrie
-Buffed Valkyrie HP and defense

Innersight
-fixed innersight
-innersight now gives -1% enemy defense per lvl

Perfection
-res from perfection is no longer based on hard points in strategy; it now scales with diminishing returns from 1 to 25

Magic Arrow
-added a small nova to magic arrow on hit

Lightning Strike
-increased lightning strike base elemental damage by 100%; reduced mana cost to 8

Impale
-updated impale skill desc

Strafe
-fixed strafe, max of 6 arrows on a single target with 20 hard points

Guided Arrow
-set GA mana cost to a flat 10

Dodge/Avoid
-max dodge and evade % reduced from 75% to 25%

Pierce
-redcued max pierce from 75% to 50%

Assassin
-increased venom, fade and BoS base duration to 1 hour
-increased blade shield base duration to 3 mins

Charge-ups
-rebalanced elemental charge up damage; 2nd and 3rd charges no longer cause counters; claws of lightning has a new triple lightning meteor for the 3rd charge
-made chargeups uninterruptable

Claw Block
-reduced claw block to a max of around 50
-removed fbr from claw block

Shadows
-buffed shadows hp

Bladefury
-blade fury is now a ranged single target skill again that shoots 1 blade for 1/1 weapon damage and pierces all enemies

Bladeshield
-bladeshield reduced to 1/4 weapon damage
-increased time bettween attacks on blade shield from .5 sec to 1 sec

Cloak of Shadows
-moved def% from COS to claw mastery

Fade
-fade res and curse reduction now scales with diminishing returns from 1 to 50


Barb

Frenzy
-frenzy reduced to 1/1 weapon dmg

Battle Orders
-now 1% per 4 pts

Concentrate
-increased concentrate dmg/ar per lvl from 25% to 40%


Druid
-feralrage/maul/fireclaws/frostbite cannot be interrupted
-fixed summon hp
-increased armageddon and hurricane base duration to 5 mins

Molten Boulder
-increased the speed of molten boulder and set it back to 1 boulder per cast

Oak Sage
-removed hp% from oaksage; replaced with 5+(blvl/4)+(lvl/4) fire/cold/lit pierce

Spirit of Barbs
-reduced SOB absorbs from 10% max to 5% max

Ravens
-buffed ravens sigificantly; max of 10

Fireclaws/Frostbite
-same dps, slower speed, less counters, less mana cost
-changed animation from bite to feralrage animation
-increased lvl 1 base damage by 100%
-increased tier 1-5 damage by 50%
-reduced mana cost to 3 scaling down to 1
-increased shockwave tier 5 damage by 50%


Necro
-fixed golems hp/dmg to be where to should be
-increased dmg/hp of skeletons slightly


Paladin
-removed the ias bonus from holy auras

Res Auras
-res auras absorb reduced to 5+(blvl/4)
-salvation now only gets 1 fire/cold/lit absorb per 4 self hard points for a max of 5% ele absorb

Blessed Hammer
-doubled blessedhammer mana cost

Smite
-dr% reduced to 1% per 2 hard points

Zeal
-added passive ias to zeal as long as you have at least 1 hard point in it so melee paladins can run any aura they want (defiance zealer, etc)
-increased zeal damage per level from 20% to 25%

Holy Fire
-increased holyfire damage by 10% on tier 4 and 5

Holy Freeze
-reduced max holy freeze slow from 40% to 10%

Holy Shock
-increased holyshock max tier 5 damage by 15%

Holybolt
-increased mana cost per level on holybolt by 0.5
-reduced the heal on holy bolt by about a third and gave it no variance in heal ammount her cast

Might
-increased might damage scaling to 60 + 20

Fanaticism
-increased ar per level on fanaticism from 10% to 20% and ed% from 6/12 to 10/20

Blessed Aim
-doubled ar bonus from blessed aim

Sanctuary
-reduced undead/demon damage/ar on sanctuary from 100+25 to 25+5


Sorc
-increased the missile speed of firebolt/icebolt/chargedbolt by 50%
-removed frozen armor as a synergy to frost nova/chilling armor/shiver armor and buffed the synergy bonuses to compensate
-added frozen armor as a synergy for icebolt and frozen orb as a replacement to cold mastery
-swapped the lvl req of FO and blizzard due to the above change
-increased warmth, shiver armor, chilling armor and ES base duration to 1 hour

Hydra
-fixed hydras :)
-removed firebolt as a hydra synergy and increased remaining synergies by 2% each and increased duration to 12 secs

Firebolt
-removed enchant and hydras as synergies to firebolt; increased synergy bonus from 22% to 30% to compensate

Flamewave
-reduced range of flamewave


Elemental Masteries
-removed the absorbs from mastery
-you can now only put 1 hard point in any ele mastery; once that 1 pt is in you get locked out of the other 2
-say for example you choose fire mastery, you will get:
-2% fire mastery per character level
-2% cold mastery per char lvl
-3.8% lit mastery per char lvl
-these values are based on slvl 55 mastery, you get 66% of the value of slvl 55 mastery at clvl 100 for 1 hard point, what about the other 33%? keep reading
-you also get 50% of your chosen elements pierce stat added to the other 2 elements pierce
-for example you choose fire and you have 100% fire pierce, then you will gain 50% cold and lit pierce
-you only need 1 hard point to get these benefits but if sorcs can still focus more on a single element and be rewarded.
-for 19 more hard points in your chosen mastery you get 7% fire/cold and 12% lit damage per hard point which combined with the per char level bonus at char level 100 is about the equivalent of a slvl 60 mastery

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:18 am 
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Quote:
Strafe
-fixed strafe, max of 6 arrows on a single target with 20 hard points

So this will be max of 6 period, yes? (i forget more about this game all the time).
So she is only gonna sit for 3 frames when hitting the best fpa (which is 2fpa unless something has changed in 1.5). This in some ways actually makes the skill stronger on single targets, not weaker. The short lack of mobility this skill forces is what will get you killed. I think this should be reconsidered.

Quote:
Dodge/Avoid
-max dodge and evade % reduced from 75% to 25%

Assume this is due to tankazons...but 25%? You still aren't gonna get to swing for shit. It seems totally outclassed by the tanking potential of other classes, what am i missing?

Quote:
duration to 1 hour

...any skill with this...can people really not be bothered to click more often? It's also abuseable as hell for some skills. 10 min should be the max on any skill except for (possibly) wereforms...even then...

Quote:
-barb gets 15 hp/lvl, pal gets 10 hp per level, the rest get 5 hp per level and everyone gets 12 hp per vita;

Oak Sage
-removed hp% from oaksage; replaced with 5+(blvl/4)+(lvl/4) fire/cold/lit pierce


hmm. caster druid life bulbs same as sorc and nec? hmmm i dunno quite how to look at this yet.

And why are we going back to vita being more important? I am not sure I get it. Spending str or enr are now even less rewarding since they have 'no' effect on potions. Are you sure that the 'double dose' effects are taken out properly for potions? I know that currently these bonuses still exist. Vita builds are going to be proportionately even stronger now.

Quote:
Spirit of Barbs
-reduced SOB absorbs from 10% max to 5% max

Why?
The issue with SoB is that is is a gd 1pt wonder. Essentially immediate poison and curse removal. The absorb is the only thing about the skill that you actually have to spend beyond 1 pt.

Quote:
Ravens
-buffed ravens sigificantly; max of 10

what is 'significantly'? I've actually maxed ravens on my wolf. They are pretty pathetic in the mid 20 slvl. (around +300 per hit, and about 300 direct damage, 3 max). At slvl 60, iirc, it would be about +2500-3000 per hit. I haven't looked on the specifics of how this damage is really applied, but I would be really careful in 'significant' changes at the top end without testing.

there are a few other ones i am curious about, but i gots to get.

Thanks for continuing what ya started!

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:53 am 

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Quote:
-barb gets 15 hp/lvl, pal gets 10 hp per level, the rest get 5 hp per level and everyone gets 12 hp per vita; this will give vita more value now


I'd like to know why we're going to back to low hp per level. I thought this patch gave us a decent incentive to actually put points in STR and dex instead of putting everything in vita.

Quote:
-rebalanced monster and boss strength


This really doesn't say much considering we haven't had a proper "boss resists" up-to-date graph in a very long time.

Code:
-countess highest rune drop in hell is now Lo

If the chance to get a Lo is the same as it currently is, this is fine. If its 2.5 something %, it isn't.

Quote:
-reduced champ gold drops in norm/nm and increased in hell

Unless you somehow ninja-buffed set/unique drops, I don't see the point of nerfing gold drops. Very early in the game, gamble is where you find most of your upgrades, and I'm not talking about sets and uniques. Stuff like claws, shields, decent weapons in general all come from gamble because it gives rares. By early nightmare, people usually start crafting and they need the cash for it.

Quote:
-reduced absorb on gems by about half chipped is 1% and uber is 5%

Why? Does this have anything to do with player hp being lower or mob rebalance? Is absorb going to be worthless or incredibly powerful now?

Quote:
-removed jewel requirement from magic -> normal cube recipe

Oh god thank you so much for this.

If you really don't know what to do next, here are a few suggestions.
-Remake purgatory so we never have to suffer a crash there again.
-Remove dark wood waypoint (its been causing crashes forever, nobody uses it anyway), put it inside the countess tower in black marsh, make tower a 8 level dungeon, drop waypoint halfway, remove the TP.
-Put a quest flag on Tal-rasha TP.
-Prepare item lists for Lockdown so he can update the database faster.

Have a nice day, thanks for the updates.


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:53 am 
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I see lots of complaints, tears and knee jerk reactions. For most of it I wont even bother responding I though the reasons for these changes are clear and its not like I am removing gold from the game. Take it all or none.

I've tested up to Hell A5 duo on these changes and I had no problems tanking with the reduced of absorbs. The hp amount stays the same as long as you have a balanced build. Being able to go full str or dex and having a huge HP bulb is so broken so we are going back to vita builds. It is more balanced that way. Amazon dodge skills are OP as shit now that all classes HP is similar. The amount of absorb you can get from SOB/auras/gems is too much and if I can duo the entire game as a tank without these skills then a party surely can too.

Ravens at slvl 60 are +2000 dmg per hit.

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Last edited by Mrawskrad on Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:00 am 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
I see lots of complaints. Take it all or none.


Well you don't exactly write down you thought process for some of the changes you make so confusion is the primary answer you'll get for quite a few things. Most of us are very happy with the work you've been doing in your free time for this community. This patch was a pretty good one and 1.5b is looking even better. It would just be nice if you could explain, even briefly, why you made some of the changes you made, how you came to the conclusion that X or Y needed to be changed, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:08 am 
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I reduced the strength of boss attacks over all and found that being able to stack 30+ absorb just on a shield to be too powerful. You can still stack absorb but it wont be as simple as dropping a couple Pgems in your shield.

Drop chance for Lo on countess is unchanged.

Full dex/str chars getting massive dmg with only slight hp loss. So OP needs to go.

It is such a pain to tell you the tiny details of how I changed every single boss or monster that I touched. Just test the patch and you will see.

I fixed health potion crit in these edits. Don't worry.

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:44 pm 
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Mrawskrad wrote:
I see lots of complaints, tears and knee jerk reactions. For most of it I wont even bother responding I though the reasons for these changes are clear and its not like I am removing gold from the game. Take it all or none.


hm.
should we even bother to suggest anything different then?

noting things about strafe to make sure that it really a nerf to the zon is crying? ok

saying things like 'ya tankazons are awesome, but is this much of a nerf really needed?' and asking what am i missing? shedding tears?

Is noting what is actually broken (and has been for a long time), not the absorbs, just is ignored? ok. keep it as a 1 point wonder. 5% on a 20 skill investment is about pointless. Items give more than that before you can even max the skill...a lot of them. Skill investment should be rewarded comparitively imo. Yours may be different...i will probably live :).
Maybe the absorbs should be nerfed, but the rest should as shit should be Poison res is too high, reducing lengths is stupidly fast at low lvls. Crying?

Mrawskrad wrote:
I've tested up to Hell A5 duo on these changes and I had no problems tanking with the reduced of absorbs. The hp amount stays the same as long as you have a balanced build. Being able to go full str or dex and having a huge HP bulb is so broken so we are going back to vita builds. It is more balanced that way. Amazon dodge skills are OP as shit now that all classes HP is similar. The amount of absorb you can get from SOB/auras/gems is too much and if I can duo the entire game as a tank without these skills then a party surely can too.

Ravens at slvl 60 are +2000 dmg per hit.


Is raven damage flat addition period? (not influenced by amp at all). Didn't really test at low levels when I could have.

With the changes to oak, what about giving the spirits in a different order. Aura that gives pierce that early is really strong, and almost everyone but Maul or Fury are going to use it, and none of the others (with 1pt sob).

And making the point that 'i don't need absorbs, so they should be nerfed'...is an odd way of rationalizing it.

'We' are not crying, or freaking the hell out.

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:22 pm 
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The damage from ravens curse should be affected by damage resist.

When all the classes' HP bulbs are equal skills like clawblock and dodge multiply the effective hp in ways that other classes cannot achieve. 75% dodge or clawblock? that's almost like having 4 times the HP as other classes.

Having pierce early for 20 pts which puts off your main build...there is almost no elemental builds that compare to early game phys damage. Seems like a non issue to me.

Its more like I don't need 40 stacked absorb so having 10% from a skill would trivialize the game. All you need to do is roll with a paladin and a druid with SOB and you're immune to everything. These skills are still a great bonus but shouldn't be an "I want to be immune to everything button"

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:47 pm 
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I totally agree that clawblock and dodge/avoid/evade mechanics atm are very strong...and have been for a long time. The former is used a whole lot more in SC. I do imagine that latter is at least made...how could you not at some point?

I can understand essentially being stuck with vita again...it just sucks. Having reasons to put points into other stats besides item reqs is fun. Too bad it's wtf broken if used 'right'.

I dunno if i really agree that phys wins early game. I played a fury wolf to start...it's still slow as hell to get going...Playing other melee classes is a bit different since they get their main attack skill earlier. But going by barb+zon? i think was your duo, and applying the same thing accross the board is not quite so simple in my opinion.

I had a lot easier time early game with a sorc, hands down. Yes she had some free gear, but i gambled a decent amount for my druid, and gold is totally irrelevant currently (glad it's getting toned down some).

None of us think there should be a free win button. We have consistently taken away these type of options over the years, from map changes, skill changes, proc of counters, changes in values, etc.

If you are able to totally bypass the need for any skills that give absorbs, ever, then I would be tempted to argue that absorbs are way too easy to get from other means. This is where we probably differ in approach I suppose.

A lot of us have put more time playing this patch than any in quite some time. Don't think that the huge amounts of quality of life changes, changes in maps, extra lil munsters to fight, lots of interesting new ways to put sets together, etc etc etc is not appreciated. it is. A BUNCH.

Most of us (should) understand that explaining every change as/before you make it is just not gonna happen. We will react though, we are (sadly?) still human.

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:14 pm 
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I've played barb+rabies, zealer+bowa, zealer+bliz/hydra, mauler solo, frostbite solo, barb solo, holyshock solo, jabber solo. Some on realm some on SP. Sorry to sound arrogant but I've probably played these 2 patches more than anyone and I since I've played though multiple times on these new changes in particular I would like to think I have a good idea of balance.

My Mauler solo was a beast he felt like one of the stronger classes and I played him solo and nothing but 2H.

I cut the absorb from gems in half too.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:27 pm 
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Quality of life change. Color code cow parts based on difficulty dropped in.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:21 pm 
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This has been suggested before, but there is no way to do it. The pieces are all the same base item and the cube recipe for the cow level is hard coded to only except items that dropped in the appropriate difficulty. If someone has a work around then I can do that, but I don't think there is one.

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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:04 pm 

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most of those knee-jerk nerfs were because my chars were deemed op as an hc player. and by most i mean almost all of them. i could go into a long list of how my builds this ladder have been systematically nerfed in every way possible but theres no reason to. everyone has a different definition of balance at the end of the day. having fun is all that matters, and ive had plenty of it this patch.


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:41 pm 
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Well when a full str assassin tanks better than a (mostly vita barb) who has 75 block, 30 sorb, 50%+ dr 30%+ magic res then something isnt right and the nerfs are more than justified.

And an amazon with dodge isnt far behind the assassin. I don't know why these "nerfs" are such a hard pill for everyone to swallow. It's not even like assassin and amazon players have to work for the benefits, all you have to do is drop some skill points (so easy on bladesin and bowa) into these skills and BOOM you never die. I'm just trying to keep some kind of level playing field and the easiest way to do that is nerf these abilities instead of quadruple the HP of other classes.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:55 pm 

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-feralrage/maul/fireclaws/frostbite cannot be interrupted

I just noticed it because I was checking if you actually nerfed Feral.
Feral really needs a nerf right now, the damage it does is insane.
Especially if it ends up uninterruptable, which was the only saving grace of fury.

Code:
 all you have to do is drop some skill points (so easy on bladesin and bowa) into these skills and BOOM you never die.


I know it is an exageration, and even though I don't care about claw block getting nerfed, it still annoys me that you keep saying clawblock just magically makes you unkillable.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:56 pm 
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Can confirm.. bladesin almost as effective as my awesome barb and she isn't even geared. Clawblock is clearly one of the most overpowered skills in the game.

buttttttt my barb would be way cooler with 32k life again! :)

no the changes are solid, stop bitching.


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:59 pm 
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Nah feral dmg displayed is just bugged I fixed it. Clawblock really does make you unkillable though look at pious' sin. Full str with 12k+ hp soloed hell sammy, etc...lets see any other class face tank hell sammy solo right now.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:08 pm 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
Nah feral dmg displayed is just bugged I fixed it. Clawblock really does make you unkillable though look at pious' sin. Full str with 12k+ hp soloed hell sammy, etc...lets see any other class face tank hell sammy solo right now.


The real question is, does he keeps his health up with lifesteal?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:20 pm 
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Ofc not. you cant LS off sammy

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:38 pm 
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So changing base item isn't doable? Because only work around I could think of was giving each set of items a different cube recipe and making each item for the difficulty unique. If you can't change the recipe then that isn't doable. Sucks to suck.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:08 pm 
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It would be easy if I could change the recipe to be unique on each difficulty, but I cant. :\

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:27 pm 
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This would be a pain, but couldn't you just duplicate the level as well, and call it cow lvlxyz?
Then have the recipe point that that particular duplicate cow level.
Maybe even take the red portal away, and do it like the current town portal?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:57 pm 
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Yeah, I could do something like that, but that's a lot of work for little pay off. How hard is it to keep track of cow pieces. I might get around to it but its not really game breaking the way it is now so on the other hand I might not do it any time soon.

If someone wants to make the changes and then all i would need to do is plug in the txt file lines/maps that would be great.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:39 am 

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How about making a waypoint in the cow level? That way we don't have to farm those stupid fucking pieces every time we want some wagyu beef.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:53 am 
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muleofal wrote:
How about making a waypoint in the cow level? That way we don't have to farm those stupid fucking pieces every time we want some wagyu beef.


then wirt jewel and anni op :/ but, instead, could remove dark wood wp, move down a slot the wps, add cow lvl wp as last wp, and add new recipe to the game, same cow lvl parts + "cow king part" (lol his testicles) to mute wirt gheeds and anni, this way you would need to farm cow king to get this part just like you do with the other 4, but having the handy wp compensates ;)

seems fair to me.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:56 am 

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Most of the changes look good. I'm a bit worried about two things:

1) Be wary of things like grizzly, valk/decoy, golems etc. Changes like clawblock and dodge were very necessary and very good, and reductions in sorbs are good too but with the reductions in a lot of character stats/sorbs/tankiness, you are moving this mod closer and closer to Pets&Mercs Unleashed.

2) Barbs were very good this patch too and you've done near nothing to nerf them but have killed most other classes. Concentration being given more damage and AR? Seems like you favor barbs. Boring as fuck. They have passive PLR, FHR, IAS, FRW, res, defense, mdr, dr that are ALL 1 point wonders, the biggest life pools, and some very strong defensive combat skills (conc big defense, frenzy 20% DR and big FRW). How about looking at:

- Nerfing soft point gains and increasing hard point gains in the passives.
- Balancing combat skills to expand upon the possibilities. Something like bash should have high ed and maybe 1% CB for skill level 1, and 1% extra for hard point 10 and 20?
- WW might need a nerf to be honest, it does great as is and has great utility.
- Changing double blow to something that isn't a near clone of frenzy?
- Nerfing frenzy to 10% DR like you did to smite.
- Warcry - from what I've seen, the skill is vastly underused.
- Conc doesn't need any bonus damage --> it's made to provide a defensive boost in the face of a boss. If that defensive boost isn't good enough, then you need to adjust defense values.
- Stun works well as is.
- Leap attack --> make a small nova or shock wave in front of it that does 1/4 dmg to make it more useful?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:57 pm 
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People don't read...I've already tested plenty of melee tanks on this patch you don't need summons.

Killed most other classes? dafuq? How can i take anything you say seriously after that statement like amazons and assassins don't need a nerf? if you can even call it a nerf, because it doesn't feel like one when they are 4 times stronger than the other classes.

I love amazons and it will be nice to play them without feeling like im cheating. I'm sure if I played assassins regularly I would feel the same way. I can't say that others feel this way it seems like people just want to play the most OP shit they get their hands on and when they are brought in line with other classes they have a fit.

Look at pious he went from frenzy barb to full str blade sin and then to dodge bow amazon. Why give up on barb if they are so strong? He knew clawblock and dodge were OP as fuck so he used them to his advantage the only difference between him and 99% of the community is that he knows they are OP as fuck and need to be adjusted and doesn't cry about it.

- Nerfing soft point gains and increasing hard point gains in the passives. Okay, soft points have to effect on barb passives now and natural res gies a max of 10 all res
- Balancing combat skills to expand upon the possibilities. Something like bash should have high ed and maybe 1% CB for skill level 1, and 1% extra for hard point 10 and 20? and buff barbs? we dont want that
- WW might need a nerf to be honest, it does great as is and has great utility.
It can go back to 1/1 dmg
- Changing double blow to something that isn't a near clone of frenzy? and buff barbs? we dont want that
- Nerfing frenzy to 10% DR like you did to smite. Barb's cant block with 2 weapons unlike paladins with smite that is the difference, but its np barbs op ill remove the dr%
- Warcry - from what I've seen, the skill is vastly underused. doesn't mean it is not good, it just means amazons and assassins are massively OP look at the ladder. why make short range melee caster tank when you can play a godmode tank that clears 4 screens at once and kills bosses np? but we dont want barbs being too good so ill remove the magic pierce from this skill
- Conc doesn't need any bonus damage --> it's made to provide a defensive boost in the face of a boss. If that defensive boost isn't good enough, then you need to adjust defense values. Yes, because all of a bosses damage is from melee attacks and having 100000000000000 def will make you immune, but we dont want boring barbs to be played so ill make it give you -def instead
- Stun works well as is. its too good it clears 1/30th the speed of multishot, barbs are catching up we dont want that. ill revert it.
- Leap attack --> make a small nova or shock wave in front of it that does 1/4 dmg to make it more useful?impossible and im glad it is, would be too OP!!!!

Oh and bear druids have the biggest HP bulbs.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:19 pm 
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Do not remove the extra dr.. al is an idiot. we already suffer from not having a shield aka any character on the realm can basically out duel me.. AR is too low and it is definitely not the strongest character.. Barb is relatively perfect where it is right now, with the changes to pots it'll bring them right in line.



some of you guys are complete idiots


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:34 pm 
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No barbs too strong I am biased can't you see my lvl 94 barb? (in gold find gear) Barbs need to burn in a fire they are too strong...have you seen the ladder? haven't you seen all the barbs soloing hell sammy? You're barb is lvl 98 hunter? you obviously solo clear like a nuclear bomb. It's not like you didnt follow around a bowa that kills 3 screens before you can even touch them....lol give me a break amazons aren't that good...they need the dmg because they can't tank....oh wait...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:53 pm 
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Leave barb alone


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:11 pm 

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hunterAS wrote:
Do not remove the extra dr.. al is an idiot. we already suffer from not having a shield aka any character on the realm can basically out duel me.. AR is too low and it is definitely not the strongest character.. Barb is relatively perfect where it is right now, with the changes to pots it'll bring them right in line.



some of you guys are complete idiots



Hahahahaha. You're one of the biggest idiots here.

There are other classes that suffer from not having a shield and require zero DR from skills (shifters).

You know you can hit 50% +DR before even the use of frenzy right? With no shield at all?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:13 pm 
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Can I trade all the barb passives for clawblock or dodge? please?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:15 pm 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
People don't read...I've already tested plenty of melee tanks on this patch you don't need summons. -

Killed most other classes? dafuq? How can i take anything you say seriously after that statement like amazons and assassins don't need a nerf? if you can even call it a nerf, because it doesn't feel like one when they are 4 times stronger than the other classes.

I love amazons and it will be nice to play them without feeling like im cheating. I'm sure if I played assassins regularly I would feel the same way. I can't say that others feel this way it seems like people just want to play the most OP shit they get their hands on and when they are brought in line with other classes they have a fit.

Look at pious he went from frenzy barb to full str blade sin and then to dodge bow amazon. Why give up on barb if they are so strong? He knew clawblock and dodge were OP as fuck so he used them to his advantage the only difference between him and 99% of the community is that he knows they are OP as fuck and need to be adjusted and doesn't cry about it.

- Nerfing soft point gains and increasing hard point gains in the passives. Okay, soft points have to effect on barb passives now and natural res gies a max of 10 all res
- Balancing combat skills to expand upon the possibilities. Something like bash should have high ed and maybe 1% CB for skill level 1, and 1% extra for hard point 10 and 20? and buff barbs? we dont want that
- WW might need a nerf to be honest, it does great as is and has great utility.
It can go back to 1/1 dmg
- Changing double blow to something that isn't a near clone of frenzy? and buff barbs? we dont want that
- Nerfing frenzy to 10% DR like you did to smite. Barb's cant block with 2 weapons unlike paladins with smite that is the difference, but its np barbs op ill remove the dr%
- Warcry - from what I've seen, the skill is vastly underused. doesn't mean it is not good, it just means amazons and assassins are massively OP look at the ladder. why make short range melee caster tank when you can play a godmode tank that clears 4 screens at once and kills bosses np? but we dont want barbs being too good so ill remove the magic pierce from this skill
- Conc doesn't need any bonus damage --> it's made to provide a defensive boost in the face of a boss. If that defensive boost isn't good enough, then you need to adjust defense values. Yes, because all of a bosses damage is from melee attacks and having 100000000000000 def will make you immune, but we dont want boring barbs to be played so ill make it give you -def instead
- Stun works well as is. its too good it clears 1/30th the speed of multishot, barbs are catching up we dont want that. ill revert it.
- Leap attack --> make a small nova or shock wave in front of it that does 1/4 dmg to make it more useful?impossible and im glad it is, would be too OP!!!!

Oh and bear druids have the biggest HP bulbs.


You always this butthurt when someone else makes suggestions? Jesus christ get a grip.

If you read anything else in my post, you would've noticed that i mentioned how the sin and zon changes were very necessary. There's no denying that being able to avoid 3 of every 4 hits/spells is extremely difficult to balance around. But i took one dig at you and you went crazy.

You don't have to take anyone else's suggestions, it's your patch.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:22 pm 
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What do you expect from the person who "killed most other classes."

Next patch will be nothing but barbs...I can see it now...oh god what have I done.

I just don't like people acting like they know what they are talking about. I love barbs? yeah I'll admit it. Amazons, specifically bowas, are also tied with barbs as my favorite class, yet im nerfing them? omg no way its almost like I just want a balanced game.

I've even offered up the files for people to test and all I hear is: "You love barbs youre turning the patch into pets/barbs unleashed" when you haven't even put in a fraction of the time that I have testing this new patch.

Test the shit then give me some real feedback and then you can call me biased all you want. Until then expect to be treated like a bitch when you try to call me out.

I like you Al and you have good suggestions you just worded it the wrong way. I am only human after all.

Quote:
There are other classes that suffer from not having a shield and require zero DR from skills (shifters).


And next patch those builds get 50% more hp. (huge when armor only gives 10%)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:29 pm 
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muleofal wrote:
hunterAS wrote:
Do not remove the extra dr.. al is an idiot. we already suffer from not having a shield aka any character on the realm can basically out duel me.. AR is too low and it is definitely not the strongest character.. Barb is relatively perfect where it is right now, with the changes to pots it'll bring them right in line.



some of you guys are complete idiots



Hahahahaha. You're one of the biggest idiots here.

There are other classes that suffer from not having a shield and require zero DR from skills (shifters).

You know you can hit 50% +DR before even the use of frenzy right? With no shield at all?



Oh.. I'm well aware.. what you aren't factoring in is amp from monsters and the negative mods... barbs should be able to reach a peak of 50 even under curses.. otherwise.. no shield/no source of block = u are fucked..

so stfu please.. your suggestions are idiotic and you sir... just no.. get the fuck out of this thread, all you are doing is crying over stupid shit. Do you like this current patch? Have faith in what Mraw is doing.. if your suggestion is thought out and organized then great, but just listing stupid shit like oh frenzy needs reduced? WHY does it need reduced, promote discussion not just a bitch fest of your thoughts.

DR on frenzy is fine how it is you aren't realistically going to get 65 to 70 without it which means when u get amped, and are not fucking relying on SOB to bail ur ass out, you can get fucked extremely easily.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:14 pm 

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hunterAS wrote:
muleofal wrote:
hunterAS wrote:
Do not remove the extra dr.. al is an idiot. we already suffer from not having a shield aka any character on the realm can basically out duel me.. AR is too low and it is definitely not the strongest character.. Barb is relatively perfect where it is right now, with the changes to pots it'll bring them right in line.



some of you guys are complete idiots



Hahahahaha. You're one of the biggest idiots here.

There are other classes that suffer from not having a shield and require zero DR from skills (shifters).

You know you can hit 50% +DR before even the use of frenzy right? With no shield at all?



Oh.. I'm well aware.. what you aren't factoring in is amp from monsters and the negative mods... barbs should be able to reach a peak of 50 even under curses.. otherwise.. no shield/no source of block = u are fucked..

so stfu please.. your suggestions are idiotic and you sir... just no.. get the fuck out of this thread, all you are doing is crying over stupid shit. Do you like this current patch? Have faith in what Mraw is doing.. if your suggestion is thought out and organized then great, but just listing stupid shit like oh frenzy needs reduced? WHY does it need reduced, promote discussion not just a bitch fest of your thoughts.

DR on frenzy is fine how it is you aren't realistically going to get 65 to 70 without it which means when u get amped, and are not fucking relying on SOB to bail ur ass out, you can get fucked extremely easily.



The difference between a build like frenzy and a build like smite is that frenzy is made to dish out damage while smite can take more punishment. Yes smite can do well with a healthy amount of CB, but frenzy gets plenty and apply hits very quickly. Frenzy wasn't made to stand there for the entire duration of the fight and just whack away - if it were able to do so, then nobody would make a shield barb. In addition, considering amp and melee hits, a barb has access to a lot of defense, allowing him to dodge many of those attacks. Those that he cannot (tornado for example), a shield doesn't block either, so then a frenzy barb uses the frw boost to dodge those attacks. That's the advantage they have. That's why the DR isn't necessary in my opinion. Again it was just a suggestion of 10% versus 20% so you're cutting the DR down but not by too much in the grand scheme of things when taking into account all gear DR% and any other sources (defiance, HoW).

The problem I have with frenzy is that you can apply the buff and then switch to a shield build. That's why I was pushing for it to be reduced. There's nothing stopping someone from using frenzy once, activating the buff, and then switching over to a wep and shield.

There wasn't any "crying over shit" if you read my post. In fact, I said most of the changes looked great. This patch is very fun to play and has been a great step forward, and I have no doubt the next one will be an improvement. I pointed out some things that I thought deserved some looking at. Stuff like making bigger emphasis on hard points for barb passives and a smaller emphasis on soft points I think would go a long way. They can even have better end-game numbers with actual hard points. Or a change to concentration to have very similar (same?) damage as bash -> it just makes something like bash useless. That change to me makes no sense, just an explanation on why it was done would be nice.

The only one who took offense here was Mraw. He took it personally when I made some suggestions and decided to go on a temper tantrum. Most of them weren't even nerfs!, just changes. There's no need for that.

But it's okay, I'm an idiot. Don't take this post seriously at all.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:36 pm 
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I took it personally when you said I killed every other class but barbs and that I am biased like barbs are some unstoppable force that no other class can compare to. Without even testing, no less. :( How can you be taken seriously after a comment like that.

On smite: it always hits and cannot be blocked, unlike frenzy and I'd take having 75% block over 10% dr everyday.

Yeah I could reduce the duration of frenzy to something like 3-5 seconds to make using the buff with a shield less effective.

I want to buff conc because who would make a conc barb now even zeal charm is better since it attacks so slow, they need the boost.

I can buff bash to make it more competitive.

Barbs dont get much from the 1pt passives besides natural res. I can reduce natural res to be similar to the res fade gives. I would trade the rest for that curse reduction assassins get, however. 20plr/30frw/20fhr/40ow? fuck that give me 40+ curse reduce.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:40 pm 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
Test the shit then give me some real feedback and then you can call me biased all you want. Until then expect to be treated like a bitch when you try to call me out. - You're 100% right about this. I have been focusing my time on the current patch because it's been damn fun. It's slow-going with work, life, and pretty much nobody on HC playing anymore. I really gotta get my hands dirty with this test patch. So take all of my suggestions with a grain of salt for now until I can give some time into the real deal. As always, pure experience beats number crunching every day.

I like you Al and you have good suggestions you just worded it the wrong way. I am only human after all. - <3 you too




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<3

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:49 pm 

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:19 pm 
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so much vagina bleed lately over here '-'


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Cant apply it, any help?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:16 pm 

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So is it safe to assume that the development for 1.5b is dead? :P


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Nova wrote:
So is it safe to assume that the development for 1.5b is dead? :P


it stopped because 1.5b was already done, or very close to being done :O


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i think there was a update made but wasnt uploaded cuz of the reset allready happening. not sure though.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:34 pm 

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anyone that wants to play this on sp from time to time let me know, this needs a good run thru for quality control !


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How close is this to what was current when he stopped? If I remember correctly, there were some kinda important things that he addressed, but not posted due to the reset being, and not getting ahead of ourselves...looked pretty good at that point though.

I miss my hydra sorc

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:43 pm 

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bug: a1 mercs seem to be virtually unkillable. they have tanked andy,dury,meph, and even diablo.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:55 pm 
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travinical bug killed mine! but ya, she be tankin blood raven naked at lvl 10

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mine facetanked dury lol


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guess we gotta do it the old fashioned way ip style since realm is down


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thorns dmg is back? Spirit shield rw has 500% thorns dmg

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:39 am 

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thunderstorm is broken, doesnt cast

edit:doesnt cast when used with +oskill


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:31 am 

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slappyNuts wrote:
thorns dmg is back? Spirit shield rw has 500% thorns dmg


amns give 500% thorns also


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:13 pm 
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I have the finished 1.5 patch I can up load it. Give me some time to check over some stuff first.

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beast


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:12 pm 

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Would be great to change the reward from the hellforge quest to something more meaningful.
Even in hell it only gives low runes, ~~pul-gul.


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:40 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:23 pm
Posts: 76
Unless I missed a change the hellforge in Hell can drop up to Cham on HU.


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:10 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:16 am
Posts: 159
Are you sure? Have you ever gotten a cham or anything close to it from hf?
I did the quest at more than 6 times and I haven't seen a single high rune from it.


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 Post subject: Re: The work never ends. 1.5b changes for the future.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:17 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:12 am
Posts: 200
ive gotten 1 cham from it before


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