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 Post subject: Improving Unused Builds...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:12 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Plovdiv,Bulgaria
I thing improving some unused builds will make the game even better.
For example look at:

Spearzon nobody uses them,but I think it could be a very good char.
Fire/Cold Bowers.... Nobody Uses them :X
Fister.. a nice dude helps a lot with the Conviction, but nobody uses a char unable to do something.
Vengance Pal's can also be great with some improving.
And Conversion is the Stupiest skill..needs to be changed.
Fire Druid (No Fire Claws, but Pyre Fire Druid), nobody uses them, but they coul be a great a character if we improve them a little ;)

It could be Great if we got more builds avaliable. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Improving Unused Builds...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 1113
Location: Vancouver, BC
I'm a strong advocate for your cause, since I tire easily of the repetitious battling alongside MultiZons, PoisonNecros, and WW Barbs. However, I'll explain some issues with your current list.

Spearzon nobody uses them,but I think it could be a very good char.
These were buffed just this patch with some very strong weapons at level 75 and 95. I think until those weapons are more common, we'll have to wait to see people experimenting with spears.

Fire/Cold Bowers.... Nobody Uses them
Gah, yah I hate this too. They're supposed to be pefectly find builds. I've even played a Cold bower a couple of years ago but got bored of her because she was just way too strong (you shouldn't be able to launch 1 arrow and a cluster and clear the entire thing). I haven't done enough testing with Immo arrow to understand why it isn't popular, the patching effect should be just as cheezy against bosses at Meteor, but maybe the patches don't last.

Fister..
Actually Fist of Heavens is Magic damage in HU, so there's no specific aura you can use to help your damage. FoH is godly against undeads (HU has a lot of these), but so is BHammer. Anyone who's maxed synergies for FoH will have also maxed the skills for BHammer (which costs less mana, does more damage, ignores both demon and undead res instead of just undead (the FoH main strike ignores both I'm told, but not the bolts), and hits more targets when you're surrounded). It's hard to justify FoH unless you're a healer that needs to stay back from the crowd. I agree that FoH needs a healthy buff to stand toe-to-toe with sometihng like BHammer.

Vengance Pal's can also be great with some improving.
This is debateable right now. The current standing is the Vengeance itself is flawed, having a relatively slow max speed (6 frames I think, so 4 attacks per second). Avengers need a massively high damage weapon that is also very fast (this weapon is sought after by everyone, so is very hard to get). Avengers can't leach well, and HU does have some pretty hard-hitting critters (this isn't a great argument though). Currently, Convictors are getting some interest, since they can make use of exactly the gear that other people don't want, and they make use of it very well.

Conversion is the Stupiest skill..needs to be changed.
Sorry, but many would disagree with you, and I would personally advocate to keep Conversion at any cost. For a low-HP "tank" like Paladins and Assassin, the ability to bring the enemy onto your side is godly. Not only are monsters the best tanks, but you can get great abilities from them like 1000HP Prayer (A3 healers), Amp (succubi), Lifetap (Minotaurs), Might (shamans), etc.

Fire Druid (No Fire Claws, but Pyre Fire Druid)
These already exist, and are already shown as a little overpowered. They might have been reduced recently, which is why we're not seeing them, I don't know. Also, no one was using FireElemental druids, so I made one, and then saw another guy testing them, so maybe that's why you think you're seeing only those around. FireElemental druids are quite weak, although FireStorm is less weak (keep in mind that FireClaw druids have well synergized FireStorm). Since both FireClaws and FrostBite are capable of 2 frames per attack, these builds are ranked amoung the highest dps builds in HU.

It could be Great if we got more builds avaliable.
I'll always agree to this. Here' a thread I tried to get started a couple months ago. Sadly it never went anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Improving Unused Builds...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:05 am
Posts: 422
I have a spearzon running in a1 hell atm, using the new lvl 70 spear. She's been doing great so far. Dmg has been over average and the only downside is that you really want someone with a lifebuff along (oak and/or bo) since you're going toe-to-toe. I haven't tinkered with all dr/mdr gear but I think that could be really useful.
The amazon only spears are really great for crafting, high dmg and decent speed. The only thing she's lacking atm is ar, I fixed that by always have atleast one eth socketed in all spears.

Fire/Coldzons are indeed very powerful. I love both builds and they really don't need any buffs.

I have a firestorm druid in a1 nm, been doing great so far. Dmg a bit behind since I play hc and prefer to max oak first. You could actually go with 1-10pts in oak and go all out dmg and let it get higher with +skills. And I use the bearshape. Great since I go toe-to-toe and need the sturdieness.


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 Post subject: Re: Improving Unused Builds...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:12 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Plovdiv,Bulgaria
Ok Than...
I'm still new here :D Spearzon's are good,ok.
Fister's are not anymore Lighting Chars,so why would a Paladin use Conviction?

Let's make a list of "weak" builds which need to be improved.
And if we got any luck they'll be in any future release.

Let's together make HU a better place for all of us.. ;]

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 Post subject: Re: Improving Unused Builds...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:38 pm 
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Avengers aren't too bad, but are pretty gear dependent. Zealers will always be better than them, but I wouldn't say that Avengers inherently suck. I have a lvl95 Avenger who uses Beast and that allows him to do pretty well. My conviction aura + lightning merc = very effective.

Using conversion is a key part for my Avenger though. With it, I can make a bunch of tanks and let my merc rip things up. This allows me to clear down to things like Hell Nihla without too much trouble. Unlike a zealer there isn't ANYTHING in the game that I can't kill with my combination of damage.

I also have a Hammerdin and am finding Fist of Heaven to be plenty useful, could just be me though. I am not quite so good at targeting things with my hammers, especially things that don't stand still like the skele mages and skele archers that pepper A1 Hell. When I try to get them in line with my hammers they just move away. I find that a few blasts of FoH works tons better to clear out these relatively low HP buggers with ease. The other bonus is because I don't need to run a specific aura for FoH, I can switch to redemption for the life/mana infusion. I am getting to be rather fond of it. I also use Holy bolt in a similar fashion since it is easy to target.

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 Post subject: Re: Improving Unused Builds...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:49 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 734
fohers are perfectly fine... they can multitask as well. did you ever see any real foher builds in vanilla? the skill isnt really meant for pvm at all besides clearing out undead areas. its a good boss skill (auto target and keeping your distance), its good because its magic so it doesnt need conviction (no magic immunes), its also great pvp.

conversion is stupid? lol, just lol

in my honest opinion, i dont really think there are any weak builds. there are tons of godly/oveprowered items that can make almost anything work well. some builds just arent played as often because a certain skill isnt as popular, but that doesnt mean its weak. a couple examples:

- i dont see many conc or frenzy barbs, but those moves are far from weak...WW is just more popular because it clears trash quicker
- vengeance is a single target but its extremely strong and gets a very strong conviction to go along with it...easily able to reach very high damages with it even 1 handed. And it does 3 different damage types, so nothing will ever be completely immune to it, and add conviction and it will pierce enemy resist into the negatives.
- jabbers have recently gotten extremely good unique class-specific spears that can really make them very good. they may not be as tankish as other melees but can deal out some serious damage per hit and leech back the life. have you seen the level 95 zon pike? it has the defense, res, and barb life buffs as oskills on it.

i could go on, but honestly everyone keeps wanting all these builds buffed until this game gets easy. there may be only a couple of obscure skills that dont work, but thats why characters have 113 possible skill points.

id actually go the opposite way, and thats to nerf overused/overpowered builds. no reason to make everything as powerful as some builds but rather i think its a better idea to make those powerful builds on a more even playing level with the "underused" builds


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