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 Post subject: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:49 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:59 am
Posts: 70
Hell Unleashed is a great addition to Diablo II, lore-wise and gameplay-wise. Placing sub bosses in
inappriopiate places makes the game appear to be furiously put together and makes the mod look less qualitative.

I, and many other people on the realm, don't see any logic behind these changes. We demand to revert the changes,
as it's just illogical having certain types of bosses appear in a non-fitting environment. For example King Leoric replaced
by Baphomet and Sszak being replaced by King Leoric. Leoric belongs to Tristram and Sszak belongs in her Lair, placed in the
Spider Forest.

This is also a huge drawback for new players, who never touched Hell Unleashed before. It seems less of an addition to the original
Diablo II, but rather a hack of monsters added to the game.

For me as a veteran, I like the challenge this brings, but am baffled at how it is done. Why change a well thought design to something capricious put together game content ? It just doesn't seem right.

At this point I'd also like to adress some odd changes not done right to certain areas: Pre-Boss areas, Arreat Summit and Baal's Room
    Arrea Summit & Baal's Room: map bounds have been changed. Whenever you run out of the map bounds you're being teleported back to the map bounds after some seconds.
    Note: map bounds are placed somewhere inside the visible area/room. There are no visible boundaries.

    Sub-bosses: Not being able to get back to upper levels is unnecessary. Why force people to leave and rejoin the game?




What do you think about the recent changes ?


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:59 am 
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I prefer classical view of HU. Tobial is a friend of Andariel, Achmel isn't (or just not direct ;) ). Making game harder is a good idea, but special monsters should stay in areas, where they had always been. Belial & Asmodan have residence in Abyss, don't banish them. And I don't like small rooms, when I have no chance to think. Many players can be surprised and die in 1 second (or save'n'exit). Hard game must be logical too.
I propose old style with new difficulty level. Don't make confusion.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:54 am 
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Sytaris wrote:
Arrea Summit & Baal's Room: map bounds have been changed. Whenever you run out of the map bounds you're being teleported back to the map bounds after some seconds.
Note: map bounds are placed somewhere inside the visible area/room. There are no visible boundaries.


Old bug with the full patch version. Download this and it's fixed: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zhub320famjra ... 20Full.rar


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:59 am
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Sapphire Rawk wrote:
Old bug with the full patch version. Download this and it's fixed: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zhub320famjra ... 20Full.rar


Thanks for the quick replay & fix


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:56 pm 
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Location: Central America - Honduras - S.P.S.
I also think the same, the bosses are just stupid and out of context... Demotivates me, the best thing about HU was that even when its a Mod, gives you the feeling that you are playing the original Diablo game as it should've been, but now gives the feeling of just playing a mod for HU (wich was already a mod for D2 deep in the soul shhh!!). Everything besides bosses swap its fine, fun and challenging, the new difficulty its cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:48 pm 
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Its mod no for HC! Bosses grow unrealistically strong!Achmel, belial at a1 rofl..For other bosses whist..Just interesting what the idiots remaked Terry's nicely mod to such an extent??Any way, new changes must be remade! He's is not suitable for playing with team! People dying on HC or just talking on chat room lol.Where admins??

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:53 pm 
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Maniac-FB says: "I prefer classical view of HU. Tobial is a friend of Andariel, Achmel isn't (or just not direct ). Making game harder is a good idea, but special monsters should stay in areas, where they had always been. Belial & Asmodan have residence in Abyss, don't banish them. And I don't like small rooms, when I have no chance to think. Many players can be surprised and die in 1 second (or save'n'exit). Hard game must be logical too.
I propose old style with new difficulty level. Don't make confusion."

-Dude its rechanges is sucks! Mod is not suitable for play! New small areas and not possible to go back from boss arena its realy bullshit.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:17 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:22 am
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I agree with Maniac. No problem with the difficulty, but a5 bosses in a1-3 are harder and lets say King Leoric in Spider Hole is easy at that point. The Maggot Queen in Sharina's Temple looks stupid and easy to farm.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:34 am 
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This mod touts challenging bosses that require teamwork, strategy, and skill to overcome. All of this makes it appeal to the hardcore audience. However, according to the hc community, this mod has been dead for the past 5+ years. Many veterans have quit and those that stick around beat the ladder in less than a week and then are bored for 8 months. This used to be a hardcore mod and I intend for it to be once more.

The last patch that soulmancer worked on, 1.21z, made the game harder. Every community patch since then has made the game easier with overpowered builds and items. If soulmancer wanted the game easier, why didn't he make it easier in that patch? This patch is the first time the difficulty has increased since that patch years ago. Hc veterans have returned being hyped for the new supposed difficulty, names I haven't seen in 5 years. Do you see any of them complaining on the forums about the patch? I don't.

Now, you play softcore and that makes me wonder why. This mod is built around challenge and you remove any possible challenge the mod could have had by being able to die. This mod has nothing to offer for softcore players and also hasn't changed except for adjustments of fotm builds, so what's the point of playing softcore here? Mods like median or games like diablo 3 have way more to offer for a softcore player and get updated with new content way more often.

This mod has had many community modders in the past, but basically all of them will no longer work on the mod due to real life changes, time issues, or burn out. People complaining no matter what modders change do not help the situation. I am willing to put in the time and effort to actually give this mod the updates it deserves and I won't fall off the face of the earth after finishing one patch. If you want the mod to change more than once a decade, I can make it happen. However, this is a mod for the hardcore, and if I continue to mod that will always be the target audience. Softcore is welcome to play but must understand that the mod may not appeal to a softcore play style. There are plenty of games that do, especially today.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:07 am 

Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 9:43 am
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I started playing HU with 1.21 and I remember untwinked normal meph being one of the toughest fights I had back then. Glad to hear HU is getting back on track and looking forward to giving it a go again when I get time. Moving the sub bosses around does seem a bit weird though, at least the ones that are out of place like the maggot queen.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:07 am 
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In 1.21z, Terry also made nomal difficulty more approachable to new players. He meant it to be an introduction to the flavor of the later difficulties.

1.3a brought the nerfbat to melee characters in general, most specifically with crushing blow.
1.3b lightened it in some ways. and nerfed some elemental damages (poison in particular)
1.3g nerfed poison more, and crafts in general (+def from diamonds), i think some life bulb mods were reduced to bring them into line with one another. some things were given to melee. they were nearly uniformly argued to be underpowered before this...regardless of how casters fared...recall pious' 100k damage barb?

1.3h fixed files, and gave some back to melee. Gave hydra fireball, which turned out to be cool conceptually but broken practically. Made Baal actually more difficult than his throne room...which it hadn't been....since i started playing.

Now 1.21z was hard, and the rest has been a cakewalk...ummm ok.

The reason why this mod has become easy to a good number of folks is because they have played it for a long time, have explored most of everything, understand which of their experiments actually work, etc. All that is fine, and good. I have no real issue with making the game as a whole more challenging, but saying some of the things people are, without any real context make me shake my head a little.

Maybe you (the royal you, not specific you) should read the 1.3a, 1.3b threads and remember why a still registered admin has not posted in over a year, and rarely in several years.

As for previous patching time lines...it has been about once a year for the last 4 patches...i know that is an eternity these days...

Making big changes is always going to bring flack. It comes with the territory. I commend all of the folks that put this one together. Just don't expect some of us to 'agree with the news'.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:55 pm 
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kramuti wrote:
The reason why this mod has become easy to a good number of folks is because they have played it for a long time, have explored most of everything, understand which of their experiments actually work, etc.


This is why I went with moving bosses. By changing whats known about bosses and making it unknown, it adds a lot of artificial difficulty that isn't just increasing their damage. New encounters and maps make you use different strategies than what you've been using for years. Yeah I could have just altered every skill list of the bosses but that's less exciting than moving and keeping their theme. Also people would just complain about leoric using cold spells or whatever. The ai/animation/sequence issues are a problem as well which I have no experience in editing, I wanted the more aggressive and brutal bosses to be required in the main game.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:12 am
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This shit is fun, all the changes are awesome. Stop crying and play some hu the right way.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:38 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
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I don't understand the logic behind people complaining about the "lore of diablo" and "this boss is supposed to be here, not there."

This is an old mod on an even older game that's had no content changes in so long (other than the soulmancer addition, there has been no content changed or added since at least 1.21 that I can remember). Switching up the boss locations accomplishes a lot:

- new game feel
- much different playthrough
- a different way of pumping up the difficulty without the stupid "more boss damage and boss life"

We are now ~10 days into the patch and we have only a handful of people, most of whom have played religiously, only halfway through nightmare. In previous patches, the ladder would've been saturated with people in late hell/already beaten the game and a half-empty realm with people leaving already. Are people really content with playing the exact same D2 mod over and over and over and over and over again patch after patch after patch after patch? This is a new game you've been given for free by people who didn't need to spend their time making a lot of item, skill, boss, difficulty changes.

I welcome and really enjoy the new patch and the switched up bosses. I couldn't care less who I'm fighting at what point in the game, so long as it is epic and fun again. I think this patch to a large degree has done that with the little time the modders took to get the patch put together.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:56 pm 
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Deathscythe wrote:
Its mod no for HC! Bosses grow unrealistically strong!Achmel, belial at a1 rofl..For other bosses whist..Just interesting what the idiots remaked Terry's nicely mod to such an extent??Any way, new changes must be remade! He's is not suitable for playing with team! People dying on HC or just talking on chat room lol.Where admins??


Please don't assume what is and isn't appropriate for HC. The HC community have made just as much progress as the SC community, completion of each act has flip flopped between the 2. HC were even first into NM act 1 and act 2. I don't see the problem here.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:27 pm 

Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 7:36 am
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Deathscythe wrote:
Maniac-FB says: "I prefer classical view of HU. Tobial is a friend of Andariel, Achmel isn't (or just not direct ). Making game harder is a good idea, but special monsters should stay in areas, where they had always been. Belial & Asmodan have residence in Abyss, don't banish them. And I don't like small rooms, when I have no chance to think. Many players can be surprised and die in 1 second (or save'n'exit). Hard game must be logical too.
I propose old style with new difficulty level. Don't make confusion."

-Dude its rechanges is sucks! Mod is not suitable for play! New small areas and not possible to go back from boss arena its realy bullshit.


Are we logging into the same game? I believe I am playing "Hell Unleashed" and not "Hello Kitty Unleashed". This is meant to be a challenge.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:24 pm 
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The lesser demons are servants of Diablo, Mephisto and Baal and they can send their minions where ever they want.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:29 am 
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I will say. I like the added difficulty a lot. I do not like having the bosses being moved.. I like the nostaglicness to it and those monsters were there for a reason. The subbosses being in a room you can't get out of.. that's fine it adds a challenge...


The difficulty is fine it seems a lot like Diablo 3's Inferno where only the top players are successfully moving on and efficiently (Softcore should clearly be in hell and leading by now lol).

I do however wish the bosses stayed the same. So if they could ever get moved back it would be wonderful. You can still have the same difficulty level by moving the original bosses back.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:23 am 
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simply... just completely change skills/ai for all bosses on each patch, so that way it requires a different strategy every season... and change the maps also np(same result without making the mod look like medianxl or another noob mod)

Skills arent attached to the boss animation... leave fucking ardual in his fucking ardual temple... and give him 100k dmg frozen orb that spawns frozen orbs from each frozen orb if u like it that much.

The difficulty is made by the boss ai/skills, so switch the fuck back to where they belong, its simply stupid and idiotic to believe that you did a good thing for the "HC intended mod" by just ruining the style/plot of the entire game to add a unknown factor that would make it hard according to you.

With all the respect and friendly tone possible : /


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:29 am 
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Wolfs wrote:
With all the respect and friendly tone possible : /


File not found.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:07 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Wolfs wrote:
With all the respect and friendly tone possible : /


File not found.



Are you trying to be funny? Because it wasn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:23 pm 
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hunterAS wrote:
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Wolfs wrote:
With all the respect and friendly tone possible : /


File not found.



Are you trying to be funny? Because it wasn't.


Much prefer a failed funny than a blatant asshole.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:25 am 
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hunterAS wrote:
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Wolfs wrote:
With all the respect and friendly tone possible : /


File not found.



Are you trying to be funny? Because it wasn't.


Uh... no? Comedy usually requires a punch line:
Example 1:
File not found -> Statement (notice no punch line)

"48 to low for exp from Sszak" -> Statement
"Not if you want level 25 oak" -> Punch line (because having level 25 (lol) oak means the level between player/monster is irrelevant) :lol:

Example 2:
hunterAS wrote:
Are you trying to be funny? Because it wasn't.

Statement.

PureRage-DoD wrote:
About as funny as your Mom, (Fat bitches are NOT funny)

Punch line.

Pointing out that there was no respect or friendly tone. I love having to explain a sentence to a retard...

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:55 am 
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I looked back at all of our old posts together rage.. considering we started around the same time... pretty funny stuff, you're still a tool though.. But since you failed to understand sarcasm.. I was simply responding with the same level of maturity that you initially did.

*side note* I leveled up just fine at the Sszak at lvl 48 ;) But way to bring up something totally not relevant to the conversation.

*another note... not on the druid... but to further the point, the exp gain was extremely beneficial. My simple offering was to provide you with a life buff for experience. I was promptly met with a response I met with a condensing undertone (whether that is correct or not is irrelevant), and promptly left.*


Anyways want to duel champ?


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:54 pm 
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I'm a tool, and you're a GM using, GS hacking, scrub. Got it.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:10 pm 
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Sytaris wrote:
Hell Unleashed is a great addition to Diablo II, lore-wise and gameplay-wise. Placing sub bosses in
inappriopiate places makes the game appear to be furiously put together and makes the mod look less qualitative.

I, and many other people on the realm, don't see any logic behind these changes. We demand to revert the changes,
as it's just illogical having certain types of bosses appear in a non-fitting environment. For example King Leoric replaced
by Baphomet and Sszak being replaced by King Leoric. Leoric belongs to Tristram and Sszak belongs in her Lair, placed in the
Spider Forest.
Agreed

This is also a huge drawback for new players, who never touched Hell Unleashed before. It seems less of an addition to the original
Diablo II, but rather a hack of monsters added to the game.

For me as a veteran, I like the challenge this brings, but am baffled at how it is done. Why change a well thought design to something capricious put together game content ? It just doesn't seem right.

At this point I'd also like to adress some odd changes not done right to certain areas: Pre-Boss areas, Arreat Summit and Baal's Room
    Arrea Summit & Baal's Room: map bounds have been changed. Whenever you run out of the map bounds you're being teleported back to the map bounds after some seconds.
    Note: map bounds are placed somewhere inside the visible area/room. There are no visible boundaries.
A minor issue, but definitely feels strange

    Sub-bosses: Not being able to get back to upper levels is unnecessary. Why force people to leave and rejoin the game?
Agreed




What do you think about the recent changes ?



Mrawskrad wrote:
The lesser demons are servants of Diablo, Mephisto and Baal and they can send their minions where ever they want.
Yes, but King Leoric in a spider lair? This is aesthetically bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:44 am
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Wait, so these changes are actually intended? Who the fuck made this? Are you a complete fucking imbecile without bounds? This is shit, both thematically and experience-wise. I'm reverting to the older patches and playing on TCP/IP. Whoever did this is a *removed*.

Edit by PureRge-DoD:
This post was reported...
Watch the racial shit. Consider this a warning.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:51 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:23 pm
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Oxygen wrote:
Whoever did this is a ******.


Yeah, I think now you've proven that what you say can't be taken seriously or intelligently. Have fun on TCP/IP, I think HU is better off without you.


Last edited by locryan on Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:13 pm 
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Sapphire Rawk wrote:
This mod touts challenging bosses that require teamwork, strategy, and skill to overcome. All of this makes it appeal to the hardcore audience. However, according to the hc community, this mod has been dead for the past 5+ years. Many veterans have quit and those that stick around beat the ladder in less than a week and then are bored for 8 months. This used to be a hardcore mod and I intend for it to be once more.

The last patch that soulmancer worked on, 1.21z, made the game harder. Every community patch since then has made the game easier with overpowered builds and items. If soulmancer wanted the game easier, why didn't he make it easier in that patch? This patch is the first time the difficulty has increased since that patch years ago. Hc veterans have returned being hyped for the new supposed difficulty, names I haven't seen in 5 years. Do you see any of them complaining on the forums about the patch? I don't.

Now, you play softcore and that makes me wonder why. This mod is built around challenge and you remove any possible challenge the mod could have had by being able to die. This mod has nothing to offer for softcore players and also hasn't changed except for adjustments of fotm builds, so what's the point of playing softcore here? Mods like median or games like diablo 3 have way more to offer for a softcore player and get updated with new content way more often.

This mod has had many community modders in the past, but basically all of them will no longer work on the mod due to real life changes, time issues, or burn out. People complaining no matter what modders change do not help the situation. I am willing to put in the time and effort to actually give this mod the updates it deserves and I won't fall off the face of the earth after finishing one patch. If you want the mod to change more than once a decade, I can make it happen. However, this is a mod for the hardcore, and if I continue to mod that will always be the target audience. Softcore is welcome to play but must understand that the mod may not appeal to a softcore play style. There are plenty of games that do, especially today.



Also, please remember this was built as a Softcore mod, and mancer did NOT originally support hardcore whatsoever, he went out of his way to say that comment multiple times. That later changed, but majority of your players are not the 8-10 people consistently playing HC.


You're doing great saph, just make sure you take in a lot of input from everyone (including softcore). I would actually appreciate seeing polls used and have a more community driven mod created as it goes forward, this would also help with the QQing :)


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:49 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:58 pm
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To be honest, while I did have a whole lot of fun climbing the ladder this season, I've never felt so much anger from the players. I'm seeing everybody ragequit left and right, people begging for help etc.

It certainly isn't helping that two dudes went ahead and killed the SC ladder race just to piss us all off and "show us how it's done". It killed the drive to play of everybody in my playgroup, including me. Its taking a massive effort to keep playing right now.
Problem is, I feel like I'm going to end up playing alone in hell, if not alone period.

As much as people are angry at Sapphire right now, I don't feel that, so far.
In my opinion, the current focus should be fixing bugs and important issues instead of working on new content already.

I wouldn't mind a reset right about now. The ladder is going to be funky without bladesins, since thats what everybody has been making to desperately get over the difficulty spikes. I've been trying to make some viable MA sin so far without much success but it is keeping me playing.

One last thing, why are act bosses so stupidly easy compared to their minions/every other boss in the act?


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:13 pm
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I agree with both Riem and Hunters last posts. I understand HC wants an impossible mod to project, but if you are going to make a mod for the like 10 people that want that, maybe they could just do that in TCP/IP or the open multiplayer, and the realm version can be balanced for the SC community how Soulmancer always did.

Either way, Riem is already basically alone in Hell. If a patch/reset doesn't come soon, all of SC is going to ragequit. I basically have, and it's only another couple days, probably when bladesins are nerfed, will I completely stop until there is a new patch.


Edit:: I think you should be able to duo the game. Its dumb to balance this game around having a party when there are not enough players to do that with.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-Boss Changes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:35 am 

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locryan wrote:
Oxygen wrote:
Whoever did this is a nigger.


Yeah, I think now you've proven that what you say can't be taken seriously or intelligently. Have fun on TCP/IP, I think HU is better off without you.


Yeah, because I insulted someone I'm unintelligent. Way to wrongfully correlate concepts, dipshit.


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