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 Post subject: Nerf Samhain!!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:42 pm
Posts: 70
Wasn't too bad of a problem before patch...

This patch brought him wayyyyyyyyyyyy up. Can't kill him with a team of 5-7 people now, with all types, we tried many strategies, and over 30+ deaths for our teams.. It seems the only people who can kill him are people who are rushing in bugged games. He's completely out of hand and overbuffed.
And this is in NORMAL difficulty, with a team of lvl65+ people.

What's up with him? He been going to the gym and drinking muscle milk?

Fix please..

If we can't do this with veteran players, then I don't think any new players would be too appealed with the insanity of him, and would quit after dying so many times.


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 Post subject: Re: Nerf Samhain!!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:52 pm 
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Need more info than "a group of level 65 characters". They could all be squishies with less than 5khp for all we know.
I don't think people rushing in bugged games is the issue because the furthest anyone is at the min is act 1 NM (1 surviving HC player in act 2 NM) and nobody is really overleveled for him yet, lol.

What's your res with convic + lower res on? (should be capped)
What's everyone's DR%
How much HP do you all have?
Do you have a dedicated tank?
If you have an assassin, do they have curse immunity?
Are you moving out of avoidable stuff?
What are you debuffing him with? (Please don't say weaken)
Do you have magic absorbs?
Are you backing away when you get amped?

To compare, my level 63 necro has 9k health atm in party, with 0 of 4 sockets in his body armor used (extra 25%hp and 80 vit once finished). Without the +%hp buff from poison strike. Aiming for 10k+ at baal.

Losing 25% damage and surviving for the full fight is >>>>> getting wasted before you can kill him.
Stuff in NM hits way harder, so if you can't kill him, you're not ready for NM and need better gear/more survivability/bigger tank.

Get rid of the uniques and put some 4 socket crafts on, filled with rubies + an absorb shield for each element instead.

You do zero damage when dead.

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 Post subject: Re: Nerf Samhain!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:38 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 500
i see... magic resist in your future.


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 Post subject: Re: Nerf Samhain!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:42 pm
Posts: 70
What's your res with convic + lower res on? (should be capped)
Don't know about convic, or if it's applied, but when I'm lower resisted, I go from 75 all res, to negative 50 all resis.

What's everyone's DR%
Unsure. I'm at about 20-30%.

How much HP do you all have?
My Barbarian, with BO and Spirit oak, around 8k.

Do you have a dedicated tank?
Bear druid, amazon valks, shadow masters, mercs

If you have an assassin, do they have curse immunity?
Unsure. Team member is a fire sin.

Are you moving out of avoidable stuff?
Yes.

What are you debuffing him with? (Please don't say weaken)
Amp? Unsure. My barb doesn't have any curse procs, and don't know about other members. We do have a bone nec though, and his curses don't seem to do much

Do you have magic absorbs?
Absorb? No. Reduce yes.

Are you backing away when you get amped?
Yes. But it lasts so long...

Many of us have crafted items
We have a throw barb, fire sin, bone nec, heal pally, Mindblast sin, and tank bear druid.

I realize this game is supposed to be hard, but this is too much.. I know it seems like I'm crying about his difficulty, but I really think there's a flaw somewhere in the system that made him far too strong.


Will take your advice into consideration though.


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 Post subject: Re: Nerf Samhain!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:58 pm
Posts: 217
He's plenty doable, even if he's hard. You're just probably unknowingly carrying people that shouldn't be getting to nightmare.(Also, single spawning can help)


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 Post subject: Re: Nerf Samhain!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:13 pm 
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Kye7 wrote:
What's your res with convic + lower res on? (should be capped)
Don't know about convic, or if it's applied, but when I'm lower resisted, I go from 75 all res, to negative 50 all resis.
you need another 125 all res if you are at -50.

What's everyone's DR%
Unsure. I'm at about 20-30%.
seems okish

How much HP do you all have?
My Barbarian, with BO and Spirit oak, around 8k.
Really low hp, like really really low, my necro has that much hp :? . Our barb had 15k at that point, and oak needs spammed. 4 socket some ss rubies asap.

Do you have a dedicated tank?
Bear druid, amazon valks, shadow masters, mercs
Summons take 8x damage from bosses, you need an actual player tank

If you have an assassin, do they have curse immunity?
Unsure. Team member is a fire sin.

Are you moving out of avoidable stuff?
Yes.

What are you debuffing him with? (Please don't say weaken)
Amp? Unsure. My barb doesn't have any curse procs, and don't know about other members. We do have a bone nec though, and his curses don't seem to do much
Decrepify and spam clay golem.

Do you have magic absorbs?
Absorb? No. Reduce yes.
MDR you mean? Almost 100% useless for bosses this patch. Damage is too high for it to matter. You want %resist and absorb (See safety crafts)

Are you backing away when you get amped?
Yes. But it lasts so long...
Try having someone soak curses

Many of us have crafted items
We have a throw barb, fire sin, bone nec, heal pally, Mindblast sin, and tank bear druid.
The problem with a druid tank who has the only oak is, oak will die over and over and over. You need oak to be off to the side, ideally from someone who tends to it 100% of the time. Firenova kills oak every time.

I realize this game is supposed to be hard, but this is too much.. I know it seems like I'm crying about his difficulty, but I really think there's a flaw somewhere in the system that made him far too strong.
HU had gotten steadily easier over the last 4-5 years to the point that you could complete normal completely naked on HC. The entire game promoted high dps as the requirement. It has just changed to high survivability being required. Take the damage hit an build to survive instead.

Will take your advice into consideration though.



Replies in blue.

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 Post subject: Re: Nerf Samhain!!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:42 pm
Posts: 70
Thank you for the advice, we will try your suggestions.

But you have to understand.. And I'm sure you do.. That to bring new players into this game, things can't be this impossibly difficult. And as a dwindling game amongst others in this age.. Players will quickly seek other games when they can't pass it. I also understand that this is a free version of D2 and a mod, but if I were a developer, I would still want a larger playerbase, and to improve the appeal of my game.

You seem to be forcing idealized builds, with idealized items, and idealized teams, on players to be able to kill certain bosses.. And while this may be a good strategy point, not everyone will be able to know this information, have the time, and the necessary skill to advance. I believe all players should have a fun, and enjoyable time playing Hell Unleashed. These specialized tactics should be reserved for absolute end game if anything.

Nobody has the time or wants to spend hours and upon hours farming for items some measly gem, just to kill one boss. This is not something the average person has, and if I were a new player, I'd quit on the spot if I knew this is what I had to do, to merely advance to the next difficulty.. I also see the viewpoint that "if you can't do it, then why are you playing?".

Any new player to this mod, or D2 to that matter, will not know, let alone ever even hear the word 'craft' while playing... What I'm saying is it's become far too specialized, and is a major turn off for me, and the other people I have been playing with.

I realize I don't have much of a say in what happens with this game, but I plead you, take what I've said into consideration, for the sake of this game.


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 Post subject: Re: Nerf Samhain!!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:26 am 
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Kye7 wrote:
Thank you for the advice, we will try your suggestions.

But you have to understand.. And I'm sure you do.. That to bring new players into this game, things can't be this impossibly difficult. And as a dwindling game amongst others in this age.. Players will quickly seek other games when they can't pass it. I also understand that this is a free version of D2 and a mod, but if I were a developer, I would still want a larger playerbase, and to improve the appeal of my game.
D2 mods are a dying breed, there are lots of mods that cater to the low time crowd who want results fast. Hard mods are not common.

You seem to be forcing idealized builds, with idealized items, and idealized teams, on players to be able to kill certain bosses.. And while this may be a good strategy point, not everyone will be able to know this information, have the time, and the necessary skill to advance. I believe all players should have a fun, and enjoyable time playing Hell Unleashed. These specialized tactics should be reserved for absolute end game if anything.
The mod is marketed as a hard mod, most of the time, people say they want a challenging mod, but really want something that is easy, and marketed as hard (See MXL). Nobody stuck around much last patch because it took 2-3 days to clear to a5 hell it was so incredibly easy. This is one of the only mods that has ever required teamwork to clear.

Nobody has the time or wants to spend hours and upon hours farming for items some measly gem, just to kill one boss. This is not something the average person has, and if I were a new player, I'd quit on the spot if I knew this is what I had to do, to merely advance to the next difficulty.. I also see the viewpoint that "if you can't do it, then why are you playing?".
You can buy 1 perf gem every 30 seconds by running inner cloister with tarnhelm, 2 nagel rings and some chance guards. In an hour or 2 you could fill a mule with SS/MS gems. It's never been easier to craft/socket crafts.

Any new player to this mod, or D2 to that matter, will not know, let alone ever even hear the word 'craft' while playing... What I'm saying is it's become far too specialized, and is a major turn off for me, and the other people I have been playing with.
Crafting is and has always been a large part of HU.

I realize I don't have much of a say in what happens with this game, but I plead you, take what I've said into consideration, for the sake of this game.


My opinions in blue.
A final note: Recent games are designed so you can't lose and gave the main character extremely overpowered skills so the enemy has very little chance of posing any threat. I personally think it's turning people soft, and nobody really want's to be challenged and actually have to think/prepare for things any more. Many just want to press 1 button for an hour or 2 a day and see who can get the highest number on screen/who can destroy a punch bag the fastest. Strategy is a dying beast.

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 Post subject: Re: Nerf Samhain!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 112
I think there is a balance to it. I agree it should remain hard, but a few adjustments should be made for the sake of the health of the mod. On SC no one really plays. It makes it hard to progress through anything because finding a group is difficult enough. Let alone finding a perfect, ideal group with everyone geared. This, in addition to higher level characters not being able to come back and help with bosses is going to completely kill what is left of this mod because no one will be able to progress.There are going to be like two groups that make it to hell. My recommendation would be to remove the nm characters can't enter normal games restriction, and maybe tone down meteor a tiny bit and irc samheins teleport kick so dps' can actually attack him. This would leave things still very difficult, while at the same time allowing groups with few people, or stuck, to help lower levels if desired.

I've never understood why there is this tremendous anti-rushing movement in this community. I understood encouraging people to play in groups through the game... but that requires... you know... people to be playing this game.


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 Post subject: Re: Nerf Samhain!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:59 pm
Posts: 68
"I'd quit on the spot if I knew this is what I had to do, to merely advance to the next difficulty..
I've never understood why there is this tremendous anti-rushing movement in this community."
You have to accept failure that u can not pass boss and remake character.
Rushing is just lol this mod is designed that each difficulty is different in a way itemization/build/bosses Each difficulty is challenge who care if u fail to beat nightmare.
I recomend to buy diablo 3 and play with 9 years old girl beating you in farm speed cuz she picked barbarian and he got build in TANKAZORDNESS


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