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 Post subject: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:52 pm 
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See the 1.4 patch notes thread

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Last edited by Mrawskrad on Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:49 pm, edited 22 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:55 pm 
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A lot to consider.

One thing I am really wary of is the 'you get this as long as you haven't spent points in that'. This is confusing, and should be uniform across classes in some way. This is a purely design-based disagreement.

I'll look at this more in the future after I have thought enough about the issues to make any points. Some good ideas in this for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:00 pm 
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kramuti wrote:
A lot to consider.

One thing I am really wary of is the 'you get this as long as you haven't spent points in that'. This is confusing, and should be uniform across classes in some way. This is a purely design-based disagreement.


I don't think its very confusing. Did you download and play the files? It gives you a HUGE warning in bright orange on the skill.

HU players aren't stupid, they can read and understand not to put pts into skills they wouldn't want on melee builds anyways.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:35 pm 
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No, I read through on my way out. I was going to ask if you did that, but forgot.

Still...the point remains that it is confusing from a design perspective as to why these other skills are not disallowed. That is a balance decision. When it alters the design scheme it just makes me wary.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:42 pm 
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kramuti wrote:
Still...the point remains that it is confusing from a design perspective as to why these other skills are not disallowed. That is a balance decision. When it alters the design scheme it just makes me wary.


It's really not confusing, these skills are disallowed because they are pure caster builds. Casters do not need a life buff and melee do. Melee builds wouldn't not put points in these skills.

I think its pretty simple....

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:40 am 
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Quote:
Melee builds wouldn't not put points in these skills.


Then there is no reason to specifically disallow them.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:01 am 
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kramuti wrote:
Quote:
Melee builds wouldn't not put points in these skills.


Then there is no reason to specifically disallow them.


There is, because casters should not be able to get this life bonus. It's not clear that's the reason?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:47 am 

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Man, a lot of that is how the game SHOULD be.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:50 am 
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I get it. I just don't really care for it from a design perspective.

There is a lot in here that seeks to address some pretty longstanding issues. A lot a like. This one...meh.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:02 am 
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kramuti wrote:
I get it. I just don't really care for it from a design perspective.


And this is why it takes over a year to create a patch (1.3g) that honestly doesn't change much, besides some broken skills and making some strong items even stronger.

Everyone starts to nit pick and nothing gets done. Lets just make a poll. People can vote if they want all of these changes or not. Majority vote decides, but if people don't agree to these changes then I'm done. I'll just play my game solo. Tired of all the bitching, arguing, and not getting anything meaningful completed.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:51 pm 

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I really feel you need to change the way you look at Weapon Masteries for barbs. Many times, a barb uses the best weapon he comes across when starting out, or may decide later to use a certain weapon type....then he finds something awesome, but not of the weapon-class he maxed. This seems really silly, as Barbarians are the ultimate "weapon masters."

I really think the 6 masteries should be eliminated and a new mastery made to encompass all weapon types. This allows barbs to be flexible in using different item types, and to benefit from maxing a weapon mastery.

The theorized new mastery could even be slightly weaker than a current mastery, but the new Mastery receives different synergies from certain combat skills, or grants certain bonuses to specific skills when the mastery has been maxed (hlvl 20) or something along those lines.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:22 pm 
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I agree, but do we remove the other 5 skills so barb only has 5 skills on the masteries page or do we turn them into something else?

I vote for remove them completely, since the barb doesn't need anymore 1pt passives or extra stats that he doesn't already get.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:27 pm 

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I would also suggest removing the rest.

Would any barb really complain... "Hey man I wanted to max sword and axe mastery! Not this silly mastery that does it to every wep!"

I think its a good change in moving towards barbs becoming more flexible. It really allows a barb to use whats at his disposal....literally. It could also turn the mastery into a really useful skill, and maybe opening up for people to experiment with barbs a little more, when any weapon you use will have the benefits of a mastery, instead of confining to a certain weapon type.

You could also edit some passives to be 10-point skills and split them up if you REALLY felt they needed 10 passives...or you could also create new passives you only wanted as 10-point skills and only hard points affect them.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Tasslehoff wrote:
I would also suggest removing the rest.

Would any barb really complain... "Hey man I wanted to max sword and axe mastery! Not this silly mastery that does it to every wep!"

I think its a good change in moving towards barbs becoming more flexible.

You could also edit some passives to be 10-point skills and split them up if you REALLY felt they needed 10 passives...or you could also create new passives you only wanted as 10-point skills and only hard points affect them.


I'm trying to keep any changes I make to the game as simple as possible, so I think just combining all the masteries into 1 skill and not adding new passives to replace them would be the best solution for now.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:45 pm 

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That sounds like a damn fine solution to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:59 pm 
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i like the idea of having a team of phys dmg chars that dont need to have a nec around all the time and still beeing able to kill bosses.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:41 pm 

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you would ofc make that mastery not apply to bows, daggers, wands, and staffs as well?

But other then that its a sweet idea. Would for sure make barbs more worky worky.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:48 pm 
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Pappy wrote:
you would ofc make that mastery not apply to bows, daggers, wands, and staffs as well?


Of course not for bows and wands. :)

A dagger barb would be fun and silly, plus there are a few decent daggers, so why not?

And mace mastery already applies to staves.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:02 am 

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Ghostflame is nothing to sneeze at, if you find it and don't have better. Daggers have never been usable b/c of no mastery (so you lose out on precious AR and dmg).

It could also open up a huge range of possibilities for dagger runewords!


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:00 am 
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Yeah I see no problem with barbs being able to use daggers, other melees are able to with no penalty.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:11 pm 
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Updated main post and files with:

Barb:
-set BO/Shout/BC to a flat 10 min duration and remove longer duration syngeries
masteries:
-Removed Sword, Mace, Polearm and Spear Masteries.
-Axe Mastery is now 'Melee Mastery'

Necro:
Poison Dagger
-passive dagger mastery now applies to all weapons
-now gets 1% Health bonus per hard point in Poison Dagger, Poison Vortex, Poison Nova, max of +60% hp
Poison Vortex
-This skill replaces Poison Explosion
-It is a melee attack that emits a short range, high damage but short poison length, nova. It deals about 50% more dps than Poison Strike, but you have to continue attacking to get it; are you brave enough?)
Poison Nova
-With the new HP buff to psn builds this godly trash spell is getting a nerf
-Now deals about the same amount of damage as before, only it deals it over 5 seconds instead of 3

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:17 pm 

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you should rename the mastery to something cool like, "Ancient's Knowledge" :)

nice changes to the poison nec; might see a few melees then!


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:52 am 

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The changes look good to me. Is increased stamina going from +4% to +3%, and is it capped at 125% as well, seems a bit confusing to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:39 am 
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locryan wrote:
The changes look good to me. Is increased stamina going from +4% to +3%, and is it capped at 125% as well, seems a bit confusing to me.


Increased stamina is remaining at 25+5

BO is being capped at 125 when 20 hard points are in both increased stamina and BO. This buffs real barbs and nerfs BO bitches.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Updated OP with:

Assassin:

Fists of Fire:
-1 charge: on hit dmg and cast a fireball
-2 charges: fire burn patch
-3 charges: short range fire nova

Claws of Thunder:
-1 charge: on hit dmg and cast a lightning bolt
-2 charges: nova
-3 charges: chainlightning

Blades of Ice:
-1 charge: on hit dmg and cast a glacial spike
-2 charges: frost nova
-3 charges: chaos ice bolts

Phoenix Strike:
-1 charge: on hit dmg and cast a bonespear
-2 charges: magic nova
-3 charges: magic bolts shoot out randomly
-gets synergy from fof/cot/boi, but you only need to max one to get full dmg on phoenix strike

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:30 pm 

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As for the barb masteries, here is my suggestion.

Make 3 skills instead of 6.

Slashing mastery applies to sword, Axes, knives
Trusting mastery applies to polearms, spears
Clubbing mastery applies to clubs, hammers, Maces and scepters(?)

What I don't like is that I feel like synergies on physical damage skills are wasted on the barbarian, because I feel forced to branch out to max BO, stamina and other passive skills.

It would be nice to have a shield mastery as well, maybe. I'd love to have a reason to use a shield on a barb. It's as if the only char who can properly make use of a shield is the paladin, and only to smite stuff with it, which is completely boring.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:43 pm 
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You dont have to max bo on the new barb. You can max only increased stamina and still get 68% BO (out of 125).

you can max 4 other skills now and then dump extra points into BO, with the new iron skin synergy with increased stamina you don't have to max iron skin unless you choose to become a huge physical tank.

The new barb has many more options, you just have to look.

Barb can already get 3frame 75% block in the current patch and I'm planning on removing their block penalties. They don't need a block mastery.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:18 pm 

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I think fade gives enough bonus as it is.
If you want the HP bonus to be for melee fighters only, perhaps put it on claw mastery?


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Riem821 wrote:
I think fade gives enough bonus as it is.
If you want the HP bonus to be for melee fighters only, perhaps put it on claw mastery?


Not every assassins wants to max claw mastery, but every assassins maxes fade anyways. I could make clawmastery also give the HP synergy to fade, so you have a choice of not maxing fade(why you wouldn't idk). But the cap would remain 40%.

The reason it is the way it is, is because if it wasn't restricted then trappers and mental sins would just put 20 pts into claw mastery. Since those builds are 60 and 40 pts.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:35 pm 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
but every assassins maxes fade anyways.

And that doesn't strike you as problematic?


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:37 pm 

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so is it 1.3h i download or is it 1.3g i wait for


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:44 pm 
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Riem821 wrote:
Mrawskrad wrote:
but every assassins maxes fade anyways.

And that doesn't strike you as problematic?


No, a few of classes have must have skills, but those classes are flexible.

The thing is with assassins their full builds dont require more than 60 pts. 3 assassin builds require 60pts the rest are 40pt builds, or create your own flavor of melee fighter So they can afford to max fade and still have left overs.

Compare to other classes with 80 or 100 pt builds. If those kind of classes had must haves then id be worried.

Doug_4 wrote:
so is it 1.3h i download or is it 1.3g i wait for


1.3g is next, tomorrow. Reading is key.

1.3h is going to come after g....

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:34 pm 
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Updated OP and DL files with:

-removed baal res aura

Multiple Shot
-set # arrows to 2+blvl
Lightning Javelin:
-increased synergies from 12% to 16%
Impale
-Changed animation to normal attack animation

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:55 pm 
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I like the res aura :(
It finally makes Baal harder than Darkness

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:07 pm 
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slappyNuts wrote:
I like the res aura :(
It finally makes Baal harder than Darkness


Im not against the idea of it, but the values are too high. The immunities never drop and it makes baal even harder for melee.

If we want a harder baal, lets increase his damage, not make him super immune where you NEED LR or conviction and it further gimps melee builds, unless you have BO and oak and maxed amp.

This is based off my experience with NM baal so far. Norm was easy with my jabber, but in NM I could barely scratch him with maxed amp. My jabbers gear is insane as well. I farmed up to the point where I knew I would be able to take him down... then i was hit with an additional 25-40 phys res on him that I cant pierce besides amp...

Do we want Hell Unleashed or Fire/Psn Casters unleashed?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:53 pm 

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Quote:
-Make Icebolt pierce since this build has no other AOE until level 36

does icebolts released from armor buffs (and possibly FO) also get pierce? even if short one (like 1 time maybe)

feed back on hydra: is it possible to tweak its reaction time? after its spawned, it don't do anything for about 1 second. also, would be good to increase bolt speed, since its so damn hard to hit fast target. or maybe give it short (3-4 second) slow efect.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:56 pm 
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I've re done the aura baal now gets:

Norm fire/cold/lit/psn res: 60% + (0-45% random changes every 3 seconds)
NM fire/cold/lit/psn res: 75 + (0-30% random changes every 3 seconds)
Hell fire/cold/lit/psn res: 99 + (0-5% random changes every 3 seconds)

This way the idea remains, but it doesnt fuck over physical and magic damage even from than that already are from lack of phys pierce/IM and the limited effect of magic pierce.

He also actually loses his immunities from item to time in NM and Hell the way he does in normal currently.

Hommit wrote:
Quote:
-Make Icebolt pierce since this build has no other AOE until level 36

does icebolts released from armor buffs (and possibly FO) also get pierce? even if short one (like 1 time maybe)

feed back on hydra: is it possible to tweak its reaction time? after its spawned, it don't do anything for about 1 second. also, would be good to increase bolt speed, since its so damn hard to hit fast target. or maybe give it short (3-4 second) slow efect.


No, only icebolt gets this pierce, the bolts on FO and Chilling armor are different missiles. :)

Hydra...with the new buff this build is insane. I don't think they need more buffs, especially considering how you can cheese so many bosses with this build.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:45 am 
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Updated OP and download with:

Sanctuary:
-fixed the magic pierce, is at -20 again

Amazon:
-set jab/impale/fend to work with knives

Impale:
-added 2 magic pierce per hard point; similar to berserk

Poison Javelin
-reduced duration to 5 seconds; same dps
-removed part of the missile to reduce lag

Plague Javelin:
-reduced duration to 2 seconds; same dps
-removed part of the missile to reduce lag

Immolation Arrow:
-reduced the inital hit by a lot, but buffed the damage over time to make up for this and the overall damage remains the same; immo arrow is no longer the only spell you use

Exploding Arrow:
-now deals the more instant aoe splash damage than immolation arrow; this will be your main trashing skill; you use immolation arrow on bosses and large mobs that dont die in 1-2 exploding arrows

Ice Arrow:
-buffed the damage signifcantly; now deals about 33% more damage than Frozen Arrow late game and is weaker than immolation arrow if the boss stands still; but Ice arrow makes up for it since it deals its damage all at once


Mercs:

I kept the chances to cast each spell very similar to old values. I just edited some stuff to make them use good spells and attacks unlike crap like unsynergized firestorm or basic attacks.

Rogues:
-30% chance to cast ice arrow
-30% chance to cast cold arrow
-30% chance to cast freezing arrow
-10% chance to cast innersight

-60% chance to cast fire arrow
-15% chance to cast exploding arrow
-15% chance to cast immolation arrow
-10% chance to cast innersight

Iron Wolves:
-5% chance to cast blaze
-60% Chance to cast fire ball
-10% chance to cast firebolt
-25% chance to cast meteor

-5% chance to cast shiver armor
-60% chance to cast glacial spike
-10% chance to cast ice blast
-25% chance to cast blizzard

-25% chance to cast charged bolt
-45% chance to cast lightning
-5% chance to cast static (its a new reactive armor spell remember)
-25% chance to cast chain lightning

-40% chance to cast teeth
-30% chance to cast bonespear
-10% chance to cast bone armor
-20% chance to cast bone spirit

Barbarians:

Combat:
-33% chance to cast concentrate
-33% chance to cast berserk (changed zeal to this since stun gives aoe now and wolf merc already zeals faster than combat ever could, plus berserk is cool and it makes combat barb unique)
-33% chance to cast stun
-I gave combat mercs Iron skin and weapon mastery since they are completely outclassed by SS mercs without them
-(in hell they have a chance to cast WC as well still; the chances for the attacks look like: 30%/30%/30%/10%


Misc:

All bow and javelin attacks no longer use quanity; besides normal attacks, strafe and double throw. The way they are coded makes it seem like it wont be possible to remove ammo use for these skills

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:23 pm 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
-set BO/Shout/BC to a flat 10 min duration and remove longer duration synergies

problem with this is that bc would only EVER be a 1 pt build, what benefit would u get from maxing it?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:34 pm 
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Qwazym wrote:
Mrawskrad wrote:
-set BO/Shout/BC to a flat 10 min duration and remove longer duration synergies

problem with this is that bc would only EVER be a 1 pt build, what benefit would u get from maxing it?


what barbs besides BO bitches max it anyways?

seems like nitpicking

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:54 am 

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lol it kinda is :P just a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:08 am 
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:P

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:42 pm 

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so is there a high res download of these new fixes/changes? or just the low res one in this thread?


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:07 pm 
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I'm only doing a low res for now since it's not a live patch yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:38 pm 

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since i dont have time to level, i just ask: how is LF-java endgame? those 1% synergies makes me sad... and its 80pt build agains 60pt poison one, so no powerful valc. currently (52) with pretty good gear she suck... can clear tundra/ancs way, but its pretty slow and not really safe.
i heard its good, but only with VERY good gear. psn one dont really have this issue

another thing, is... i guess more rhetorical questoin... can we somehow make builds, who only ever use single skill, make them not so boring? sorc example: cb/tk uses 2 skills (trash and boss one), meteor synergises with fireball, which is also good skill.
but then, hydra, for example, uses only this skill and no other, ever, for whole game, so is fnova(armors doesnt really matter, even if it very useful skills, since they are only buffs)/nova.
can we make those low-level skills somehow useful, add them different utility?


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:41 pm 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
I'm only doing a low res for now since it's not a live patch yet.


ok that's why I asked. thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:12 pm 
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Lit fury is like one of the fastest trash builds, up there with MS zons. The only problem is that you spend 80pts on a trash build and ur boss skills are terrible. That's why ive buffed lit-bolt a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:57 pm 

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Okay, regardless sin BFury and phys traps:
after this discussion: viewtopic.php?p=53496#p53496 and several posts down the topic, and:
this research: http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/show ... y-Analysis
i made one in editor to test whats it is in HU.

couldnt create uniques itselfs, but mimicked them close enuf (all major properties added)
save: http://www.filedropper.com/sin (no idea if this hosting good, first 1 ive googled. can reupload if needed)
listed BF dmg with 2 auras: sometimes its 15-21k, other time its 21-27k. i have no idea WHY. :? (maybe something wrong with auras stacking)
its uncomfortable anyway. slow attack, no aoe, pierce only from items.
BSent dmg is laughable - 6-9k, as well as BShield: 13-16k and very low range.

in other words, totally unusable in current form.

2 Mrawskrad: are u going to do any new skills or just balance old ones?

btw, can u clarify:
Quote:
Berserk:
-synergies:
-stun 2% magic pierce per pt

this is the only synergy to skill, or added this new one, besides standart dmg/ar/whatever?


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:14 am 
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Berserk has all its old synergies as well as that new one. Unless I specified that I removed something you can assume I did not. :)

I'm not looking to add new skills right now, just balancing old ones. I like the blade skills, they are so unique, so i don't think I would remove them. They do need some help though and I've already made some adjustments to the blade skills to make them more useful and damaging. I will post details later today when I have more time.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:20 am 

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Okay, i was bored and done some testing to see how it goes.
folder with test chars (will upload there others too in future): http://www.mediafire.com/?9pj22pf5br0zd

First part on sorc.
20 all hardpoints, +25 all soft, some pierce% and +elem% in small charms so u can throw some out.

Quote:
Icebolt:
-synergy: 40%
-Make Icebolt pierce since this build has no other AOE until level 36

This all acually makes IB cool, very useful and fun skill. Good job! ;) The damage scales very nicely and remains useful in hell. Since this is going to be boss skill, i feel it maybe needs just a little more buff (current damage 38k-45k, traps for comparison can get up to 100k and pierce enemies too)
Quote:
Static:
-Old static is redundant with nova
-Remove as it currently is. Turn it into a reactive buff similar to ice armors. Shoots charged bolts when hit by ranged and attacked by melee these deal about half the damage of nova currently

This need serious buff. cold armors deals 15k-31k retaliation, and this one only 10k-17k, and no dr% on it too! buff damage, add 1%dr/2blvl+1%/2blvl nova
Quote:
Nova:
-Increase synergy bonus from 12% to 16%
can't say anything on this
Quote:
Frost Nova
-Increase synergy bonus from 15% to 18%

lower bound of fnova damage (20k-30k) still less that nova (24k-30k). buff it.
also, this build uses all 100pt, and 4 out of 5 skills is passive/buffs? seriously? i'd say one of cold armors need to be scrapped and made into something useful.

on FO: when fo itself passes through enemy it is supposed to deal listed damage for each bolt inside fo, right? (thus like x15 or something) Just idk, with listed 9k dmg, sometimes this feels like i dont deal damage at all. and, to compare, CB with 5k dmg releases same amount of particles, but simply destroys trash.
Imo, this need heavy buffing. Make fo ice bolts pierce too, buff damage, remove cast delay... any of it. Or just scrap it :|

on Blizz: tried it, couldnt play it. huge cast delay, small aoe radius, crap dmg on blast/spike.

warmth: needs effect when on. u have nive effect for static there (part of cyclone armor animation, if im not mistaken?) recolor that to red and assign to warmth
chant: can we make this into cry? buffing all those running skele such a pain... :x

General on barbs:
i'd like changes, this is going to be next. unfornately, while helps, this is not going to kill bo-bitches, reason is why: any barb build uses 60pt for 3 synergized battle skills, then mastery+inc stam. this only give 63%bo and base shout. To completely kill bitches we need to allow to max bo/shout effect through synergies to battle/masteries skills, thus effectively granting them for free to any barb (hey, what everyone thinks on this? i don't really mind doing that, no one currently plays barb, and there is so little ppl playing at all, so why the hell not). And this don't stop from simply sitting in town (though if barb any good i think ppl will be playing it)

On mobs: have u done with them anything? Generally, they feeling alot harder that current patch, and some turned nearly unkillable! Siege beasts from a5 in particular, i spam at them 40k damage 200fcr 90pierce skills and barely scratch them :o ANother one i found simply ignored my damage altogether...


Last edited by Hommit on Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:25 am 
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Wow thanks for the feed back. I have to go to work now, but I'll respond later today.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:46 pm 
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My FO tests show that it deals good damage to trash. I 1 shot a siege beast with slvl41 and 70 pierce, and no I did not touch any monsters besides a few hell bosses, concerning their physical res.

The goal isnt to kill BO barbs, that can't be done without completely reworking the skill. Which I have done before but the way it would work I am not a fan of.

I am happy with the way BO is now with my edits. The way I see it is that:

Weapon Mastery/Increased Stamina/Battle Orders

is similar to:

Werebear(or wolf)/Lycanthropy/Oak

Nova has higher range/more damage and a ranged auto hit spell that deals damage on its own. I don't like the idea of giving Nova DR also. clone builds are boring. I would rather Nova be the "glass cannon" nova build an Frost Nova be the tank build with lower damage.



Updated OP with:

Blade Sentinel
-increased synergy to 20%
-reduced next hit delay from 25 to 8
Blade Fury
-increased synergy to 20%
Blade Shield
-reduced time between attacks from 1 second to .5 second
Shock Web
-reduced next hit delay from 25 to 8

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:37 pm 

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Quote:
I 1 shot a siege beast with slvl41 and 70 pierce,

huh? in hell? something wrong here then... as i said, barely damage them
Quote:
is similar to:
Werebear(or wolf)/Lycanthropy/Oak

but that leave only 2 battle skill? is taht enuf for damage?
Quote:
Nova has <...>

i didnt say anything about nova? it was about static. currenlty, if u reworked it to reactive armor, it deals almost 2 times less damage and dont offer any dr% like their cold counterparts

Can we increase travel speed and distance of CB particles by about 30%? They too slow compared to other spells/attacks


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:01 pm 
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1) If something is wrong then its user error.

2) Yes its enough...Barb now arent as weak as people make them out to be. Im giving them huge buffs.

3) Nova is the build on Nova/static/TS. You can't think about sorc skills on their own you have to consider all the skills together.

4) I'm going to say this now:

This patch wont work if people nitpick. If people don't like tiny little things and want little stupid shit changed and this patch doesn't make any progress because everyone is arguing, then I'm done here. I will remove all of these posts and all of my files.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:06 am 

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Phoenix Strike:
-1 charge: on hit dmg and cast a bonespear
-2 charges: magic nova
-3 charges: magic bolts shoot out randomly
-gets synergy from fof/cot/boi, but you only need to max one to get full dmg on phoenix strike

We don't need more magic damage, especially not on the sin.
The elemental charges definitely need some buffs, but you could do it in another way.
For example, have the Phoenix charges deal elemental damage based on synergies. Got only fire charges maxed? It only deals fire damage.
Cold maxed? Cold damage. All maxed? Tri-elemental. Then you can work on the phoenix charge effects.
Magic has no business being there.

Impale:
-Changed animation to normal attack animation
-added 2 magic pierce per hard point; similar to berserk

It will need a massive damage nerf to compensate.


Immolation Arrow:
-reduced the inital hit by a lot, but buffed the damage over time to make up for this and the overall damage remains the same; immo arrow is no longer the only spell you use

Exploding Arrow:
-now deals the more instant aoe splash damage than immolation arrow; this will be your main trashing skill; you use immolation arrow on bosses and large mobs that dont die in 1-2 exploding arrows

Ice Arrow:
-buffed the damage signifcantly; now deals about 33% more damage than Frozen Arrow late game and is weaker than immolation arrow if the boss stands still; but Ice arrow makes up for it since it deals its damage all at once


I don't agree with those either. It makes Cold-Fire zons significantly harder to skill up and build.

MagicArrow:
- increase conversion to 100%

Keep conversion at 50%, have hard points increase conversion by 6% per 5 hard points (up to 80%) Additionally /or add a "increased magic damage by %" per level like impale and /or increase damage ramp up for having zero synergies.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:52 am 
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Sounds like I'ma stop working on this, then.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:56 am 

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Hey, chill out, man. How u expect us make ideas or discuss it if u take it like that? U doin great work.

ps: found what was wrong with FO - somehow my pierce items wasnt working. remade them and now it rocks (also got an idea just HOW is important pierce actually is lol)


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:31 am 
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There is helpful discussion and then there is nitpicking on the remakes of unused skills.

I 100% buffed Cold zons and he "doesnt agree" and "it makes it harder to skill and gear up"

These are the kinds of people that I need to get to agree on a patch for it to happen.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:46 am 

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Quote:
I 100% buffed Cold zons and he "doesnt agree" and "it makes it harder to skill and gear up"

Everyone have different opinions, do they? He don't agree, then someone will agree..


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:59 am 
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Quote:
We don't need more magic damage, especially not on the sin.
The elemental charges definitely need some buffs, but you could do it in another way.
For example, have the Phoenix charges deal elemental damage based on synergies. Got only fire charges maxed? It only deals fire damage.
Cold maxed? Cold damage. All maxed? Tri-elemental. Then you can work on the phoenix charge effects.
Magic has no business being there.


Dont need more magic damage? says who? No, I can't do it that way you described charge-up skills are incredibly hardcoded with their functions.

I'm not changing this anymore. It will stay the way I edited it or I can revert it to the old shitty versions that no one uses.

Quote:
It will need a massive damage nerf to compensate.


On my to do list.

Quote:
I don't agree with those either. It makes Cold-Fire zons significantly harder to skill up and build.


Wha... Okay lets see...
1) I only gave cold zons a buff here...
2) Have you played a fire zon from 28-60? It's so broken it feels like hacking. You can kill meph. diablo and baal realllllly easily. And after you are level 60 your build is maxed and you dont need to worry about "skilling up" and they still deal only fire damage. I'm not sure how they are harder to gear up now.

Quote:
Keep conversion at 50%, have hard points increase conversion by 6% per 5 hard points (up to 80%) Additionally /or add a "increased magic damage by %" per level like impale and /or increase damage ramp up for having zero synergies.


So it would be another clone of Berserk? No, I like the flat damage on it, it makes it unique. Not every skill should be the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:13 pm 

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Riem821 wrote:

I don't agree with those either. It makes Cold-Fire zons significantly harder to skill up and build.


hahaha


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:19 pm 

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I meant cold AND fire.
[Edit] In case this is still not clear enough, I'm talking DUAL ELEMENT.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:38 pm 
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except....it doesnt...because the damage on every single ele bow skill is the same or higher now.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:39 am 
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Updated OP with:

-reworked the lightning skills to be a 60pt build and adjusted synergies and damage to remain the same

Lightning Strike
-removed from the lightning javelin build as a synergy
-now deals 1/2 weapon damage as lightning
-3 targets +1 per 2 hard points

Lightning Javelin:
-increased conversion to 100%

Poison Javelin
-reduced duration to 5 seconds; same dps
-removed part of the missile to reduce lag
-reduced range from 25 to 20
-causes counters again
-added 1 second timer

Plague Javelin:
-reduced duration to 2 seconds; same dps
-removed cloud
-changed missile
-causes counters again

GuidedArrow:
-give the ability to pierce
-require AR to hit
-added a timer: 1.6 secs -0.08 sec per hard pt (zero timer with 20 hard points)

Valkyrie
-now gets a preset pike with ed
-now gets a preset lance with ed at slvl 20+
-now gets a preset warpike with ed at slvl 35+

Bone Wall
-increased mana cost to 20 + 0.5 per lvl
-duration 7/cooldown 1 seconds
-add thorns 250% + 10% per level

Bone Prison -> Bone Golem
-lets be real here; bone prison is used for one thing: to cheese bosses. no matter what change is made to the current form, its either worthlessly bad or gamebreakingly cheesey, so I changed it
-oh great another summon just what summon necros need!!! Yes and No. This summon requires heavy investment into bone armor and bonewall to be worth using so on any other build it's a waste of time summoning it.
-once you max bonearmor/bonewall/bonegolem you get a pretty beast summon most of its stats come from hard points so this build will peak very early, so keep that in mind before you test it and scream OP!!!!
-it has a 66% chance to cast a bonespear on attack that deals 100% of its attack damage as magic
-it has frenzy like fire golem

Inferno
-remade into a flamewave type spell

Firewall
-reduced delay to from 25 to 15

Blaze
-reduced endgame damage by about 75%
-this was(and still is) such a cheesy spell; you can still cheese with it but it will take longer; its meant to be more of a supporting spell now when combined with the new inferno and firewall


ID tomes stack to 100

Keys stack to 50

Death craft belts now give 15/20/25 piercing attack for normal/exceptional/elite

Perfect Elemental craft armors now range from 6-8 pierce

Starstone Elemental craft armors now range from 6-10 pierce and range from 0-1 all skills

Moonstone Elemental craft armors now give +1-2 all skills and range from 6-16% pierce

Power craft belts now give CBF instead of deadly strike

Jewels are more common in the gambling screen

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:33 am 
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Mrawskrad wrote:
Blaze
-reduced endgame damage by about 75%
-this was(and still is) such a cheesy spell; you can still cheese with it but it will take longer; its meant to be more of a supporting spell now when combined with the new inferno and firewall
Rather than reduce the damage of Blaze, consider reducing the duration of the flames. The duration of Blaze in skills.txt does not apply to the flames on the ground, but to the length of the aurastate where a player's movement will place flames on the ground. See Missiles.txt, row "blaze", fields "Range" and "LevRange", to control the duration of the flames. If you reduce those numbers by 75%, then you will have reduced the damage-stacking effect (or size of the patch of flames) by 75%. Alternatively, consider keeping the initial time (whatever it is), and just making the LevRange number small enough that the end-game flame duration is still 75% of the current duration. That method would penalize younger characters less.

- The main benefit of this would be to reduce lag by reducing the number of flame graphics (the changes to FireWall and possibly Inferno will generate lag due to more flame graphics on the screen).
- This way Blaze would still allow a strong strategy of fleeing from a strong monster and killing it at the same time. If Blaze's damage per frame were reduced by 75%, then that strategy just takes longer, which might not be fun.
- I think reducing the flames duration will reduce the cheesiness of Blaze because it removes some of the safety factor. The fire-patch won't last long enough to make long lasting traps, so you have to create them smaller and closer to the monsters.

If you're curious, I don't think it's possible to add extra mods to the Blaze aurastate. I wanted to give it FRWalk via synergy, but it didn't work :(


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Yeah, that was my first thought, but when I tried changing range and levrange the damage the fire patch deals goes away after the new duration, but the fire patch remains.

Have you done this before? I'd like a solution because I would prefer it being the way you said.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:31 pm 
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My implementation has the Blaze aurastate duration as 10 seconds +1sec/lvl, while the flames are 2 seconds +0.6sec/lvl. Admittedly, I haven't played a test character at length, but in all the tests (including another one just now), everything appeared to be working as expected. In my test, I made a test char with level 1 Blaze, and messed around with some Fallen. Since my level 1 flames last 2 seconds, while the aurastate is 10 seconds, it's really clear to me that the flames disappeared when expected, and that the Fallen were not affected by invisible flames.

Here are the relevant fields of my skills.txt:
srvmissile = <blank>
srvmissilea = blaze
srvmissileb = blaze
srvmissilec = blaze
cltmissile = blaze
cltmissilea = firewall
cltmissileb = firesmall
cltmissilec = firemedium

Here are the Range and LevRange fields of missiles.txt
blaze = 35, 15
firewall = 95, 5
firemedium = 5, 15
firesmall = 20, 15

My theory for how the skill's working is that on every sorc step there is a "blaze" missile placed to due damage, and then one of the three other missiles placed only to be a graphic (or perhaps they're paired with a srvmissile). In my tests, I did notice that the flames die out at slightly different times (rather than like dominos), which I expected by the differing Range values for the fire missiles. I also noticed that the four second duration of my firewall missile kinda looks dumb in hindsight, so I think I'm going to clone that to a new missile and swap it out. That missile is also used by FireWall, and it makes me nervous to reuse a missile when the Skill field isn't the skill I'm working on (I had a lot of debugging of the AndyJave skill, until I realized that the missile it was launching was just plaguejavelin; therefore it was actually ignoring the damage of AndyJave and using the damage of PlagueJavelin).


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Cool, that seems to be what I was missing! Thanks! :D

New blaze change:

Blaze
-reduced fire duration to 2 + 0.04 seconds per level (about 4 seconds at slvl 50; remember blazes ability to stack scales really well with FRW too)
-increased buff duration length to 20 + 3 seconds per level
-damage remains the same

it now functions as more of a supporting spell to the new inferno and firewall instead of a "stack this 10 times and instant kill anything" cheese spell

Thanks Brevan!

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:37 pm 

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While I can and do appreciate the effort put forth here it raises some concerns. Some I can accept, others make me cringe.

At this point in its' life cycle do we really need to re-invent HU? Balance changes, OK I'm good there. Completely remaking skills, like BP to a summoned bone golem, not so much. Changing the duration of plague to 2 sec, seriously? Unless you're also reducing the bosshat plr to near zero the dmg won't be there. Counters back on it, fine I'm good with that make it harder for them to play.

GuidedArrow:
-give the ability to pierce
-require AR to hit
-added a timer: 1.6 secs -0.08 sec per hard pt (zero timer with 20 hard points)

Seriously, needing ar on guided now? Why not add ar to FoH, Meteor, BoneSpirit as well. The way your designing it makes it a physical version of magic arrow. Nothing more.

more to come.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:50 pm 
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kwikster wrote:
While I can and do appreciate the effort put forth here it raises some concerns. Some I can accept, others make me cringe.

At this point in its' life cycle do we really need to re-invent HU? Balance changes, OK I'm good there. Completely remaking skills, like BP to a summoned bone golem, not so much. Changing the duration of plague to 2 sec, seriously? Unless you're also reducing the bosshat plr to near zero the dmg won't be there. Counters back on it, fine I'm good with that make it harder for them to play.

GuidedArrow:
-give the ability to pierce
-require AR to hit
-added a timer: 1.6 secs -0.08 sec per hard pt (zero timer with 20 hard points)

Seriously, needing ar on guided now? Why not add ar to FoH, Meteor, BoneSpirit as well. The way your designing it makes it a physical version of magic arrow. Nothing more.

more to come.


Do you realize that poison pierce also reduces poison-length-reduction?

Do you realize that in earlier versions of HU GA pierced and used attack rating? The reason for the timer is to balance it since it can be extremely strong.

Do I really need to state that GA is a physical attack and those you mentioned are spells?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:36 pm 

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Mrawskrad wrote:
Do you realize that poison pierce also reduces poison-length-reduction?

Do you realize that in earlier versions of HU GA pierced and used attack rating? The reason for the timer is to balance it since it can be extremely strong.

Do I really need to state that GA is a physical attack and those you mentioned are spells?

Do YOU realize that pierce only reduces plr after the res value goes below zero? At present, using hell Baal, it takes 194 total pierce to drop him to zero plr. Which is doable in a duo with a necro. One thing I've been saying since 1.3a (Blues patch) there is too much pierce and it's exceedingly easy to get. Which was dramatically changed for that patch. 1.21z, my first, had decent balance overall from what I saw then and now. Poison wasn't the killer of choice back then.

You also realize vanilla removed pierce from guided for that very reason? In my time on HU, GA has been a zero ar, single target attack.

Yes, I do know those are spells, I was making a point, since those are also powerful skills. Which is why trapsins can only lay traps at their feet.

Look back, the biggest balance swing came with so many items being changed from a class skill to all skills. From skill tab to all skill, adding more auras. Adding additional pierces where it hadn't been. Elemental crafts is just one example worthy of pointing out. Watching amp, lr and conviction get nerfed. CB get decimated. Physical dmg a shell of what was. Yes, 1.21z needed amp to do decent phys dmg, lr or conv to do decent ele dmg, it is a team based design model. Some tried to alter that and now we have what we have. Undoing one bad patch slowly, progressivey. Not re-inventing it in one fell swoop.

My 2 cents.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:50 pm 
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kwikster wrote:
Do YOU realize that pierce only reduces plr after the res value goes below zero?


No, it doesn't work that way. It always reduces PLR. Not unless HU was changed to be that way. If so, can i see your source?

A long time ago GA pierced on HU and when it did, it also required attack rating to hit. It was strong, but I balanced it around the fact that you need hard points in multishot to get a high number of arrows and the fact that you need 20 hard points in GA for a zero timer. So you have less skill points to spend on other skills as a phys bow zon.

Edited for clarification.

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Last edited by Mrawskrad on Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:23 pm 
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Regarding blaze, I do agree it's ridiculously overpowered right now, but 75% is a gigantic number to chop off.. I guess testing will tell whether it's too much or not. Firewall is pretty strong, but at mid levels is practically unusable with a ~70 mana cost iirc, and it lasts for like 2 seconds.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:29 pm 
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slappyNuts wrote:
Regarding blaze, I do agree it's ridiculously overpowered right now, but 75% is a gigantic number to chop off.. I guess testing will tell whether it's too much or not. Firewall is pretty strong, but at mid levels is practically unusable with a ~70 mana cost iirc, and it lasts for like 2 seconds.


Just to be clear the damage is remaining the same, only the duration the flames last is being reduced. So if a monster is chasing you, you can still do the same damage. You just can't stack it 20 times now. That is what fire wall is for with its reduced timer! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:01 pm 
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A change is needed in the description of PheonixStrike. The missiles produced by this skill benefit from +%Mastery in Missiles.txt (ApplyMastery=1), but their described damage doesn't include this. Normally a missile's damage is based on the skill, so the Mastery damage is applied indirectly, but PStrike doesn't behave that way.

It would take a lot of text to describe every cell that needs to be changed, so please extend these examples:

There are three sets of columns that adjust the charscreen display
(royal strike).p1dmmin
FROM m1en
TO m1en*(100+stat('passive_fire_mastery'.accr))/100

There are three sets of columns that adjust the skill display, plus another set of columns for the flames DPS damage (so four sets total)
(royal strike).desccalca5
FROM miss('royalstrikemeteorfire'.edns)*75/256
TO miss('royalstrikemeteorfire'.edns)*75/256*(100+stat('passive_fire_mastery'.accr))/100

The other accrued elemental masteries are:
stat('passive_ltng_mastery'.accr)
stat('passive_cold_mastery'.accr)

There will be about 14 fields changed in total.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:46 pm 
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Cool stuff, just added these fixes to my files. Works perfectly.

Thanks, Brevan!

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:30 pm 

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While I'm in the neighborhood, two things.

What happens with the Pheonix strike first charge meteor? It just vanishes while the other two charges are added to other charge skills?

Is something going to happen with 50-99% amp in normal difficulty from bosses?
The poison seal guardian in act 4 does obscene damage because of it.

Oh one last thing, shouldn't we name this patch 1.4?


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:57 pm 
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Riem821 wrote:
While I'm in the neighborhood, two things.

What happens with the Pheonix strike first charge meteor? It just vanishes while the other two charges are added to other charge skills?

Is something going to happen with 50-99% amp in normal difficulty from bosses?
The poison seal guardian in act 4 does obscene damage because of it.

Oh one last thing, shouldn't we name this patch 1.4?


1) the meteor becomes an instant explosion + fire patch

2) No, I think the game is easy enough as it is.

3) Yeah, lol eventually I'll rename this patch.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:50 pm 

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remove the stupid no hell chars in normal games unless baal q complete thingy, bugging games is stupid and ALMOST everyone does it.

Bring back the level requirements and / or quest requirements for certain portals or quests, like countess to be able to go past the tobial tp, izzy to be able to go through to bridge of the damned, or tp at end of it.

PLEASE :P the bugging shit is stupid and so ineffective...

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:56 pm 

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Suggestions:

Change Frost Armor and Enchant to AOE buffs (Like Barb BO)
Give states/overlay for Enchant, Venom and Cloak of Shadow

Barb:Something should be done with Blade of Arreat.
Zon: Change skill description of multishot to reflect the damage reduction it has.
Significantly increase the magic damage scaling of magic arrow.
Additionally, increase magic conversion % by 6% per 4 hardpoints in the skill (Total 80%) If you can make the damage splash in a small radius (2-4 yards), try that as well.

All I can think of right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:20 pm 

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Some things to consider:
There are WAY too many states currently available. My friend plays a frenzy barb and during NM, was constantly crashing myself and anyone else in the party due to having too many states. He had to gimp his equip just so people could play along with him.
10 passives
4 (I think) ctc proc states
3 war crys
2x merc aura
1x insight aura
1x fanat aura from a weapon
Oak
barb block passive
slow missiles
cursed
convic
all before having an actual paladin etc. in the party granting other auras and buffs. It is too much.
Consider changing BO and BC into a dummy passive and granting the bonus to shout instead (fixed at flat duration)
Condense weapon mastery (planned I believe?)
Change nat res into dummy passive (remove the state) and have it synergise iron skin
Do the same for inc stamina and inc speed.
For the above, since passive synergies dont update. change both inc stamina and iron skin into a 6 hour self cast buff. (set warmth to 6 hours too or give it an overlay at least)

Reduce the number of auras available from non paladin sources. Ie. the sorc orb with Might on equip. It's useless and just pushing people ever closer to the state limit. Take it off and replace it with something like an enemy effect aura that reduces phys resist by 1% per level (lvl 5-10 on equip). That is a way more party friendly buff and it's less likely to cause state overflow on other players!
Remove most procs that provide a state.
Prevent the stacking of frozen armor and the other 2 armors (allow chilling and the other one to stack) and have the def bonus apply to one of those at a 1:1 synergy.

This is only the tip of the iceberg, as things get much worse when you increase the party size, being stunned etc. and factor in any dyes being used (1 state per visible slot).

Iron golem is missing a skill icon surround on the tree
Skeleton archers max minion count is missing a "?" in the calculation
Skeleton use soft level but archers use base level for max #.

Loving the physical resist plans, phys damage is 100% useless against hell baal here for example, though we did muddle through everything else with just ctc amp as 2 melee's. Phys damage is still very bad (nobody cares how fast people clear trash mobs, bosses are what matter) compared to anything that can pierce res as it is the only damage type you can't pierce with in this mod, so you already have a +100-150% resistance penalty...


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Yeah that's a good point about states, I never thought of that. I never had the problem, but condensing barb shouts/passives is a good start and something I can do really quick.

Skeles got messed up a bit this last patch, I've already fixed em to be based on hard points again. I will post an updated change log tomorrow I've done a bit more since I last updated this post.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:59 pm 

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Yep, I had never had the state problem first hand, but I was aware of it as it's commonly used to PK people then crash them out of the game so they couldn't loot.
NM a3-5 was a complete nightmare though. didn't realize the cause until the end of act 4 then all of act 5 was spent with my friend gradually getting undressed while quietly weeping into his nightie until we finally reached a safe number of states without risking going over from curses/convic. It was amusing, but certainly could do with being looked at.

1 other thing that is holding melee back is bosses block chance. It is giving melee/ranged AR based builds a boss with effective hp 2 times that which casters face. I wouldn't say get rid of it, but perhaps tone it back by 10-15% and go from there, it really cripples some skills.

1 final thing that is purely opinion based, so take it with a grain of salt. There is too much passive pierce available. Compare to any physical build:
PI boss, amp breaks PI, melee deals 1-4% of listed damage as the boss still has massive resistance.
Poison immune boss, lr breaks it, char pierces bosses resistance to -50%, so they are dealing 50% more than listed damage to a target that was previously immune.
75% pierce vs a broken immune boss is still between 15 (if phys immune boss gets dropped to 95%) and 75 (if phys immune gets dropped to 99%) times more effective than a physical build vs a broken phys immune. 75% seems like a reasonable number to be aiming for max pierce wise. Again, that's purely opinion. I like that you can break an immune and still do decent damage, but the ability to pierce that into negatives seems a bit too much.
Maybe higher than 75% IDK, it's not for me to say. I think if people take a step back and look from an unbiased perspective, they would agree that such huge pierce values, greatly tip the scales in favor of casters/elemental builds, no matter how much phys builds are buffed.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:15 pm 
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While I agree with you, (see the changes I've made to amp/phys res values) I play pretty much nothing but melee, and they aren't as weak compared to casters as people think if you have a necro with maxed amp with you and you gear up correctly (another advantage casters have, they are easier to gear) And thats exactly what my changes are doing. Making it so you dont need that maxed amp necro to deal damage.

Sure elemental chars have a lot of pierce, but bosses dont have physical absorbs like they do with the elements. You also have to consider CB with it melee destroys bosses.

I want what I've done so far to be tested, before I make anymore changes though. Things get out of control if you change too many things at once that all contribute to the same desired result.

And thanks for the feedback. These forums are slow, its glad to have people acutally post. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:45 am 

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Quote:
Change nat res into dummy passive (remove the state) and have it synergise iron skin

Do mind that it benefits from softpoints tho
Quote:
Prevent the stacking of frozen armor and the other 2 armors (allow chilling and the other one to stack) and have the def bonus apply to one of those at a 1:1 synergy.

maybe the other way around? every1 getting 1pt FA atleast, almost noone get other armors (except fnova and future FO sorcs)


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:25 pm 

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Hommit wrote:
Quote:
Change nat res into dummy passive (remove the state) and have it synergise iron skin

Do mind that it benefits from softpoints tho

It bothers you that barb passives work based on soft points? Or it bothers you that it will be a soft point synergy?
1st one is fair enough, second one is irrelevant as it's exactly the same as it is now, only the 2 passives are applied via a single state & it's in order to fix a pretty serious issue with state overflow and crashing games. Also see prayer/lycan/golem mast/skele mast. All do the same thing.

Hommit wrote:
Quote:
Prevent the stacking of frozen armor and the other 2 armors (allow chilling and the other one to stack) and have the def bonus apply to one of those at a 1:1 synergy.

maybe the other way around? every1 getting 1pt FA at least, almost no-one get other armors (except fnova and future FO sorcs)

Everyone gets 1pt FA yes, but the sorc would only need to cast 2 on herself if she is fnova. 1 less state on the sorc. I'm not saying to remove a functional skill, just cut them down whare possible. This means instead of a max of 3 shields, (states) the sorc now only needs to use 2 for the same benefit.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:46 am 
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Temptation: listed as ctc amp on striking
It is actually ctc amp on struck
Expensive discovery :)

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:25 am 
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slappyNuts wrote:
Temptation: listed as ctc amp on striking
It is actually ctc amp on struck
Expensive discovery :)


Yeah I've fixed that already. Sorry. :( I could have warned you if I knew you were making one.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:43 am 
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ah maybe I missed it in the notes, I rely on site too much

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:56 am 

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Dragon Flight range is too low for current resolution, Par7 seems to be the range.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:10 pm 
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first look:
Sorcs-
New inferno is pretty cool! Could you add a display on the skill tree for how many patches are thrown out? Like 'next level: 6 flames' etc.
Lvl 1 static has a minimum of 0 dmg. Maybe it should be changed to 1? lol. Skill seems to be working as intended, cool idea. How far will the bolts go? I could see them reaching the edge of the screen, but some stuff will shoot you from off screen

Paladins-
20% dr on defiance is OP for smiters who will get 40% now. Or just use the defiance shield for free DR% and no skill points spent. Not to mention the 40% life buff they getting. Reduce to 1% per 2 hp, 30% dr doesn't seem as over the top, but they still going to have an easy time going over cap.

Necro-
Behemoth is fun! What buffs is he receiving from bone wall/armor? Should put that in the skill tree.
That dmg on poison vortex is pretty gnarley! Can't wait to see how many people die on hc trying this hahahahaha

More to come later

EDIT:
Assasin-
OK, I have literally never used the charge ups for a sin so I don't even know exactly what changed lol.
You're able to charge up every single charge-up at once, not sure if intentional. Looks pretty cool when you explode everything at once though!
Also when you detonate the third charge, it casts the spells for the first 2 charges as well. Working as intended?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:51 pm 
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My bad, I should have taken this post down when I made the new 1.4 post. Anyways, you downloaded an older version with things I took out in 1.4 due to some QQ and QQ i predicted would happen in the future.

Go download read the 1.4 thread and download that patch. :D

Everything you mentioned about the Assasin Charge ups have always been that way. I only changed what each charge does.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:53 pm 
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shit my bad ill get the other one

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 1.3h Big list of changes!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:55 pm 
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The only thing you posted about so far that's not in 1.4 is the behemoth. So no biggie. :D

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