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 Post subject: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:28 pm 
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The best way to balance this build in my idea is to make Sanc aura a synergy for foh and when sanc is maxed then you will gain the bypass demon.. 8-)

Plz post your thoughts on this..

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:56 am 
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How about we remove the bypass from FOH, add it back to hammers, and nerf hammers by 20%.

FOH can be cast from across the screen, it's a very "safe" skill. With hammers, you pretty much have to be in the middle of things.

Even with 20 in sanc, FOH would still only be a 60 point build. At least hammers is an 80 point build.

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:22 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:22 pm
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I'm in favor of hammer idea along with the nerf.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:13 pm 
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No.. did you ever really play a foher before the bypass ? the only way that it shined was in undead area's.. It was never a stand alone skill before now..
And wtf do hammers need what more dmg give me a brake already..

This is about balance not making another skill back to complete op mess like hammers were 3 years back.....Hammer pallys are at there best balance ever AND WE SHOULD NOT MESS WITH IT .....

Adding that synergy to foh makes sence cuz its a -magic aura and forces it to be a 80 point build out of the gate..Just like I believe that Bone And psn nec's should be 80 point builds aswell..

Perhaps one day people will get a real understanding what Balance is... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:22 pm
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Thing about FoH is it doesn't need peirce, so you can load up on hitpoits in all of your extra sockets. It doesn't need a curse to do great damage. You can run prayer or meditation with it instead of having to run concentration for hammers. A gimp as stated would go along with the transfer of the demon bybass. If hammers are considered too strong with a gimp and the bypass added then the bypass should be throw out all together. There's only a handfull of builds that are going around and soloing Bosses. FoH paladin is one and it's way over-powered with the bypass. So maybe we should just remove it all together?

And you're little snarky jabs at people at the ends of you comments are a bit childish.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:18 pm 
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I'm going to ask this question again.. Did you ever run a foher before bypass was added???

I'm about balancing builds not killing them... And making Foh a 80 point build is the right thing it brings both builds in balance ( hammers and foh)
Hammers needs con aura..Foh will have sanc... so whats the issue here really ...

By what you and Jay are saying will only make hammers op again and fix's nothing... Thats why I said what I said about balance..

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:22 pm
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I did not make a FoH paladin before the bypass was added. I did however make a Healer paladin and enjoyed the use of Foh for trash killing in undead populated areas for example chargers in AW. I also made a FoH Paladin after the bypass was added and was able to kill both asmodan and belial without using 1 single pot. Also solo'd a ton of other bosses excluding magic counter bosses.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 3:58 pm 
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I tend to agree with jay here. I think that's a simple and reasonable fix. Don't see many hammerdins around these days anyways.

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:40 pm 
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Well if we go and put bypass back on hammers we are taking a step back not forword...Bypass was removed from hammers do to the high dmg hammers get end game or do we forget this?....
If anything just put bypass back on hammers and make foh a 80 point build with sanc arua for foh's bypass.... There now everyone is happy... :?

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:22 am
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I'm with Asteroth here, a 80 point build would be ok along with the medi removed from heaven's will (mentioned in other thread). If not gaining bypass, then sanc shoud boost FoH damage. It's just an idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:04 am 
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Ok, so it has been a stupidly long time since I made a hammerdin, but did concentration bonus get removed? If not then it should already be considered 80points. No? If it wasn't removed, then folks simply are using it any more? Why not?

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:40 am 
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Even with sanc, FOH would be a 60 point boss killer build. Holybolt doesnt add damage to FOH, just its bolts vs undead.

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:34 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:19 pm
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Location: Reno NV
FuryCury wrote:
How about we remove the bypass from FOH, add it back to hammers, and nerf hammers by 20%.

FOH can be cast from across the screen, it's a very "safe" skill. With hammers, you pretty much have to be in the middle of things.

Even with 20 in sanc, FOH would still only be a 60 point build. At least hammers is an 80 point build.

+1. Seems like the most reasonable route. 20% is a very significant nerf.

I understand Asteroth's reservations though as hammers were pretty powerful pre-bypass nerf. However I never saw them as being that awesome late game except for the act bosses, as the optional endgame bosses were almost all non-demon.

I also like Asteroth's idea of making them both bypass. One does more damage because it is more in melee range and the other does less and is ranged. This would of course include FoH relying on sanctuary and bumping it up to a 80 pter. Maybe take the damage synergy and split it between hammers and HBolt.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:56 pm 
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Before Bypass was taken off hammers they were hitting around 30 to 40 k end game dmg plus the bypass..

Holy bolt synergy to foh can become more effective synergy if we add a dmg % to Bolt for Foh.. This in fact will make the player have to max bolt aswell as the other synergys to get the max dmg and with Sanc for the bypass..

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on foh
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Here is a screenshot of my pally with hammers plz note that i'm using a giant skull for concs do to i didn't put any points in it hope this helps..
Image

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