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 Post subject: Balance on items
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:29 pm 
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this thread is intended for fixs plz do not post here with anything else but item balance's thx..

1 MarrowWalks :> Change bone prison oskill to 1-2 plus to all skills and the necro skill bone spear to a 5 same with the other skill.. other mods are fine..lvl on item 88..
2 Que-Hagons :> Plus 2 to all skills.. 200 ed .. Eth .. Industructable.. the other mods are fine.. lvl 75
3 WindForce :> 500 ed .. 60 ias.. 4 to zon skill lvls..4 to pally skill lvls..socked by 2..-20 fire res..-20 cold res..-20 light res..500-1500 ar depends on lvl..35 res all..Knockback.. lvl 90
4 Drackuls grasp :> Change the life tap on striking to terror or confuse..25 ias.. The rest of the mods are fine.. lvl 75
5 DarkForge :> 6 to necro skill lvl's .. 2 sockets .. 35 res all ..400 - 450 ed.. the rest of the mods are fine... Idea here is to make this shield a real lvl 95 .. As it is atm there isn't much of a differance from bone flame..
6 DragonScale :> 6 to pally skill lvls. remove the dr% ..res all 25 .. socketed by 4 .. the rest of the mods are fine.. Again this is to make this shield a better 95 .. as it is now there isn't much of a differance from Alma Negra..
7 Alma negra :> changes the reanimate % from 10 to 5%.. the rest of the mods are fine..lvl 85
8 ToothThrow :> change the lvl of teeth to 2-4 .. the rest of the mods are fine..lvl 65
9 Wyrmscale :> remove the reanimate..socketed by 4.. rest of the mods are fine..lvl 80
10 Devastator pike :> Remake wep in a war pike and none class so other class's can benifit from this wep.. change all the class skill to just 3 to 4 to all skills and keep the other mods.. lvl 95
11 Kira's : > change the plus 2 to all skills to 3 .. Again there isn't much of a differance from Mithra's crown..the other mods are fine.. lvl change to 85
12 Spirit Seeker :> this polearm only needs some res all perhaps 15 - 30 .. lvl 88
13 StormTrek :> only change here is the reanimate % from 10 to 5..lvl 78
14 Hand of the Blessed light :> change the foh to only plus 2 same with holy bolt...This sceptor is almost as powerfull and the lvl 85 one.. lvl 56
15 Wisp ring :> change Spirit of barbs lvl to 14 to mach the lvl of the ring it self and spirit needs fixing in hell atm there isn't any psn res on it when there should be..lvl 84
16 MetalGrid :> again the spirit ... change it to lvl 14 ..lvl 85
17 Zak amulet :> make this always a plus 2 to all skills.. lvl 60
18 Griffins eye :> change the sockets to only 2..lvl 90
19 Templers Might :> change the sockets to only 2-3... Idea here with griffs and templers is to force other gear combo's instead of the same old same old..
20 Tyreals :> make this indistructable again.. There is no need for this to be eth ..way to op....Change the plus to 1 skill to 2...
21 WormSkull ;> remove 10% psn dmg .. add 1 socket.. The rest of the mods are fine.. lvl 30
22 Face of horror:> Change the pally skill to plus 1 to all skills.. Add 1 socket.. The rest of the mods are fine..lvl change to 30
23 Undead Crown :> Change the plus 5 to skelly mastery to 1-2 skelly mastery 1-2 pnb skill lvls... The rest of the mods are fine.. lvl 40
24 StealSkull :> Add 1 to sin skill lvls ... add 2 sockets.. the rest of the mods are fine..lvl 52
25 Valkyrie wing :> Remove its sockets.. the rest of the mods are fine..lvl 64
26 VampireGaze :> remove the bone armor on struck... The rest is fine..lvl 66
27 Mithra's Crown :> change the 3 sockets to 2..The rest of the mods are fine.. lvl 70
28 Crown of Thieves:> add 2 sockets the rest is fine..lvl 70
29 DragonHead :> change the 3 to fire skills to 2.. the rest is fine..lvl 76
30 Nightwings veil:> add 20 res all to it.. the rest is fine..lvl 78
31 Andariels Visage :> change the 2 to all skills to 3... The rest is fine.. lvl 88
32 Crown of Ages :> remove the Indestructable to so it can spawn eth..Change the ed(DEF) to 350 to 400.. the rest is fine..lvl 90
33 Gold skin :> add plus 1 to all skills.. the rest is fine.. lvl 46
34 Skin of the flayed one:> remove that 2 to java skill lvl to 1 - 2 zon skill lvls.. The rest is fine..lvl 50
35 SpiritForge:> Change the 4 sockets to 2.. The rest is fine..lvl 56
36 Corpsemourn:> remove weakin on struck... The rest is fine.. lvl 75
37 ShadowDancer:> add plus 2-3 to all skills..- 40 requirements .. the rest is fine.. lvl change to 95.. Idea here is to have a lvl 95 boot heh..
38 Arachnid mesh :> add -10 psn res back to it ..change the plus 2 to 1-2 to all skills.. the rest is fine.. lvl 70
39 Humongous axe:> add 30 ias.. the rest is fine..lvl 40
40 Warlords Trust :> change ias to 33%..the rest is fine..lvl 45
41 Islestrike :> add 20 ias... the rest is fine..lvl 52
42 Executioners Justice:> Change ias from 80 to 100... the rest is fine..lvl 90 .. Idea here is so you can get close to the (drood Barbs) last frame in attact speed..
43 SteelDriver:> Add 2 sockets .. the rest is fine.. lvl 40
44 Bloody tree stump:> add 2 sockets .. the rest is fine ..lvl 58
45 The Gavel of Pain :> add 2 sockets .. the rest is fine..lvl 65
46 WindHammer :> Change ias from 80 to 100..lvl 90.. Same idea here as Exe axe..
47 The Grim Reaper:> Change 1 socket to 2.. the rest is fine..lvl 40
48 Blackleach Blade:> Change ias from 10 to 30..the rest is fine..lvl 49
49 Grim's Burning Dead:> Remove all necro mods ..Add Plus 2 to all skills..add 2 sockets.. add 20 life mana after each demon kill..Remove the - requirements..the rest is fine..lvl change to 65
50 The Reaper's Toll:> remove necro mods ..Add plus 2-4 to druid skill lvls..
Add 2 sockets..Change bone armor Oskill from 12 to 6.. the rest is fine..lvl 78
51 Ribcracker:> add 150 ed(Dmg) ..the rest is fine.. donno really why the ed was takin off this in the first place..
52 Warpspear:> Remove tele oskill ...add 3 sockets.. the rest is fine..lvl 56
53 Mang Song's Lesson:> Change plus 7 to to sorc skill lvls to 6 to all skill lvls..the rest is fine..lvl change to 90...Reason for this change is because each class should only have 1 95 not 2.. its the reason I changed Devastator pike to a war pike..
54 Plague Bearer:> remove the plus 1 to barab skill lvls..the rest is fine..lvl 56
55 Doombringer:> Add plus 2 to all skills..The rest is fine..lvl 85
56 Sword of the Wanderer:> change the plus 2-3 all skills to plus 4 to all.. the rest is fine..lvl 88.. Idea here is to see this wep make a impact again as it is now on one use's this wep..
57 Thunder Stroke:> change plus 5 to zon skill lvls to 2-4.. the rest of the mods are fine..lvl change to 90.. Again each class should only have 1 95..
58 Jade Talon:> Change the 15% psn skill to 25%.. Add 15- psn res.. the rest of the mods are fine..lvl change to 70..The increase in psn % is to help venom sins in the lvls of 70 through 90..
59 Facets:> all facets should be 4-5 in skill% and -res.. This will help with the crazy grind to find them and make farmin more effective..
60 Constricting ring:> add plus 1 to all skill.. remove the MF..the rest is fine..lvl 95.. Idea here is to see more people use these instead of them being merc food most of the time..


This list is done if anyone would like to add any item to this list feal free to do so..

My idea here is to see many differant gear possablitys for all class instead of seeing people allways useing the same gear setups all the time .. cheers 8-)

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Last edited by Asteroth on Fri May 17, 2013 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:15 pm 
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I think dforce and dscale don't need those changes. Everything else looks good on first glance :)

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:23 pm 
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That idea is just to boost them away from there lvl 85 counterparts..

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:02 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:22 am
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Asteroth wrote:
3 WindForce :> 500 ed .. 60 ias.. 4 to zon skill lvls..4 to pally skill lvls..socked by 2..-20 fire res..-20 cold res..-20 light res..500-1500 ar depends on lvl..35 res all..Knockback.. lvl 90

I don't know about this one. A RW woold be better for bow pallys with more pierce in that case. Zons got BRC, they don't need another elemental bow and WF can stay a choise for phys build.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:22 pm
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1. Marrowalks idea seems cool to me.
2. The Que-Hegans Armor changes seem a bit off the armor seems tailored towards casters which shouldn't have high defense in my opinion.
3. Windforce bow seems great to me, Using a rolled rare Ethereal Hydrabow until you can find/trade for an Ethereal Windforce sounds reasonable.
4. Don't really have any objections regarding the Dracul's Grasp idea.
5. Darkforce doesn't need improved in my opinion.
6. Dragonscale is 10x better then Alma-negra, 20+ all absorbs, tons of faster block rate and increased chance to block. More skills are overkill.
7. The change to re-animates for Alma seems fine to me.
8. Toothrow doesn't need gimped in my opinion, the Teeth Damage endgame doesn't seem over powered to me. Since it has no sockets it's a big trade off from Templars or other armors.
9. Wyrmscale doesn't need another socket imo, 3 is plenty. As far as the re-animates go it seems to be a rare interesting situation. The re-animates spawning more enemies. Some people like them for the hp/mana per kill. Others don't like them. I personally like the re-animates but wouldn't be opposed to changing/removing them.
10. The devastator pike seems fine as is. It's one of the few reason's to make a Jab Zon, (Finding an Etheral Devastator).
11. Kira's doesn't need another skill, there's an excess of skills as it is imo.
12. No objection here to adding res to SS.
13. Stormtrek re-animate change I agree with completely, 10% is too much.
14. Agreed.
15. Disagree with the change to wisp, it's fine where it's at imo.
16. Same with Metalgrid.
17. Completely agree with Zak Amulet idea. The sword should not have a range also imo. Same with Zod Runewords.
18. I'm a bit on the fence about removing a socket from griff's but sounds ok to me.
19. Same with Templars.
20. Ethereal Tyreals is incredibly rare and one of those few fun to gather items. Like Ethereal Windforce and Ethereal Tomb Reaver.
:)


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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Windforce is for the bow pally and zon..

Devestator is to open end game ideas for all class's to benifit from .. the Jabber will still be able to use this pike.. You make it sound like they won't.

Dscale isn't that much better then Alma negra and in fact I prefer alma most of the time..Again this is about balance and some of the mods on Dscale need nerf .. For christ sakes your a pally how much safty do you need zz.

Griffs templers .. This idea is to force other gear idea's . I find it sad that for 85% of all the Char builds here they all use the same end game set up Griffs templers Im flesh Soul drainers etc.. Its like watching a bunch of cones of one another running around like tools...

DarkForce Hmm let me see ohh you get a hole 1k dmg some life and a bit more fcr .. now ask your self this take a good look at both shields there really isn't anything differant from the 2 ..

LMAO You never seen my bone necro just cream everything then .. That armor is to much and 4 to teeth is were its at not 6...

WyrmScale is lvl 80 and needs to be abit better for its lvl

Qwe-Hagen's is to be a universal armor for ether casters or melee and even mercs.. You mean to tell me you don't want a high def on your caster? Another reason I went with the def on Qwe was for hc players that want that high def for sertain area's of the game..

Kira's again this is intended to force people to use other end game setups then the same old griff templer ..

Wisp and Grid... Lmao you think that Spirit of Barbs is fine ... You do realize for 1 its broke in hell(it should be psn immune)... As it is now Sob sucks when you have to recast it 9 to 10 times in one Guardain run then there is a problem...These items are lvl 85 and 84 for christs sake ....

Tyreals should have never bean made to spawn eth.. I don't care how rare they are ... This armor in no way should have more def then Zod Rw War... And again this is about balance and keeping balance between armors weps hats etc...

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 3:06 pm 
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List is updated.. All armor hats belts etc are done.. Next is weps.. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 3:13 pm 
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Look over the list again folks. If no other debates arise in the next day or so I will give a revised list of changes, including the concerns that have been raised (some may or may not change the list). It seems the list has been completed, yes?

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:11 pm 
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Why are so many items being changed? If it's not broke...don't try to fix it.

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:51 pm 
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Fury, I understand what you are getting at. As short and to the point as it was, you deserve a real reponse by those that are messing with things that came long after you, and others did. Especially those that did things in the past which many of us have no clue of, run severs still, which have to be updated, and what not so we can play with pixels.

Noone yet has completed articulated what we came to before asking you and others to filp the switch for all of us. Here is a shot at it. It is a read.

This is why I said in several threads, for folks to come to a consensus about what people wanted. When I proposed doing just 1) bug fixes from the implementation of dew's stuff that we merged with my item edits. I have tried to compile these in the buglist thread, and have noted those that arrove recently 2) try to find out if melee was in a good position or not. Tweak if needed yet. 3) Find out if poison was in a better playable fashion. 4) do we want to add things to the list, like trying to get new builds into the mix via skills or items. 5) Do people want a reset?

Here is what I have seen so far. 1) I have talked with several people directly to figure out who could do what for the patch. I have gotten a tentative agreement from Brevan to do skill stuff, and clean up that file and a couple of others related to it, while I could do items/string fixes. If he is not able then it will take me a bit longer, which means less stuff will get done in the window we both have to set time aside, or the stuff will just be delayed once i am down to just have weekends free of work at best.

2) Most people say melee is in a lot better position and not much skillwise needs to be done. People have brought up shockwave druids and melee fire druids, etc, but that is more related to 4) than 2).

3) Poison, zons in particular have been argued to be essentially the only thing that can solo basically everything, without assist from literally any body else. Plus there is an issue with the reset timer and poison (note this is probably not just zons. Druids or nec should theoretically still be able to abuse this, though it is probably more difficult. Time will tell I suppose).

So it seems a pretty good argument was made to not allow poison javelin ranged skills to reset it.

The other issue was that moonstone crafts in norm were being abused, making arguably OP items to breeze through it. I don't like the idea of just making one craft level dependent. Starstone crafts can be damn near as effective for those levels honestly if the crafter of the item knows what they are doing with craft recipe mechanics.

4) Some argued that there is no point in a reset unless we try to bring more interest to the game. And doing this during for the summer could be a good time play.

Asteroth took the time to at least make an organized proposal of item edits. Holy shit how oftem does that happen :o

Slappy gave a lot of ideas on underused/possibly underpowered skills after we discussed online and via pm about really all of the ideas above, and more specifically who is available to do stuff if we do anything at all before possibly the fall/winter.

This is where you believe we should stop? Yes? Can I get a general idea of what you don't want to see, if this is incorrect?

5) There should probably have been a reset poll made, and maybe even a blizzard pole quite awhile ago (do it twice to see if results are the same before actually making any edits). Still,it seems that a lot said yes, and several did a lot of upfront work to that end after poking and prodding I didn't/don't really have the time to do all the concept/collection of change ideas myself. I have time to make the edits that the vast majority agree on, and hopefully have a 'little help from my friends' that know more than I do about some how to implement some of the proposals, if necesary/wanted.

Edit. Clarification.

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:58 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:22 am
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Asteroth wrote:
10 Devastator pike :> Remake wep in a war pike and none class so other class's can benifit from this wep.. change all the class skill to just 3 to 4 to all skills and keep the other mods.. lvl 95
57 Thunder Stroke:> change plus 5 to zon skill lvls to 2-4.. the rest of the mods are fine..lvl change to 90.. Again each class should only have 1 95..
Zons have one 95 from the time you choose your build. Who will make melee zon if you can use this item on other chars?
Asteroth wrote:
37 ShadowDancer:> add plus 2-3 to all skills..- 40 requirements .. the rest is fine.. lvl change to 95.. Idea here is to have a lvl 95 boot heh..
Aaand we have a boots for all the chars.:) Tank or caster, doesn't matter.
Asteroth wrote:
53 Mang Song's Lesson:> Change plus 7 to to sorc skill lvls to 6 to all skill lvls..the rest is fine..lvl change to 90...Reason for this change is because each class should only have 1 95 not 2.. its the reason I changed Devastator pike to a war pike..
It's better for a merc than time rw without investing a zod. Pretty strong on a druid too.
Asteroth wrote:
60 Constricting ring:> add plus 1 to all skill.. remove the MF..the rest is fine..lvl 95.. Idea here is to see more people use these instead of them being merc food most of the time..
Tanks should use it. With a skill it will be like shadow dancer, fits on everything with 30 all res, stats and sorb. I know it's rare, but sooner or later you'll have some. But not through trading thats for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Just so folks know, I am currently going through this list of item changes to try to make the item changelog (a first run at skills is done). I don't agree with all of them. Some seem reasonable, though. I am also trying to take into account what others have mentioned on likes/dislikes on the list.

One aspect I really don't agree with uniformly, is changing of item levels that are not consistent with the tier system of white items. Do others feel the same way about this part?

Hopefully, I can be done with this some time today. If not sometime tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:09 pm 
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Update: I have made it about 3/4 through Asteroth's list. A good number I don't see the point of. I have noted these in my listing. Sorry for the delay, but it won't be today. Shouldn't take long tomorrow to finish the list up.

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 Post subject: Re: Balance on items
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
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One thing that should (or could) be fixed is Steelshade hat. Currently it has ctc CoS when striking, while site lists it having 2% ctc lvl 30 Chain lightning on striking. IMHO, the latter should be the case. As the hat is a lightning based one. Gives a psn toon the ability to use as merc hat to break some immunities in some area and some sub-bosses.


+2 to All Skills
+400% Enhanced Defense
Resist All +20%
Lightning Absorb 3-4%
Adds 1-1000 Lightning Damage
-10% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+12-16% to Lightning Skill Damage
2% Chance to Cast Level 30 Chain Lightning when Striking
currently 2%ctc lvl 30 CoS (skill 264 in .txt file)
Damage Reduced by 20-30
Magic Damage Reduced by 20-30
+100% to Attack Rating
+3 to Cloak of Shadows (OSKILL)

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