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 Post subject: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:44 pm 
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When are we finally going to nerf these builds(Psn Zon/Psn Nec)..
These 2 builds are the most abused in hu ... Every patch they seem to get stronger because you guys are more worried on nerfing other builds why these slip by time and time again.... A lvl 50ish psn zon hits over 100k in norm don't you all think thats abit much? 60ish k on a psn nec isn't op ether ?
These builds need to become 80 points to balance them to the other builds out there that just can't even compare..
Another issue with Psn Zons is the cloud remove it all together its a lagzor plus it acts like psn strikes cloud everything it toughs dies..

Kevin's idea with skelly mancers letting them have a recastable skelly or Dk is insane and xtreamly Op and to boot makes no sence...

Onto gear hmmm where do I start .... Nerfing items such as WindForce into worthless crap isn't balancing its noodling...There is so much about gear I can be here for days.. The gear is all over the place and when you really start looking at more and more items there is alot that make no sence..
And wtf is with all the Dr% on everything my god .. Hu is to be tuff not lets get over 60% dr in norm and just sit and tank everything cuz they can't hert ya.. Again this isn't balancing its noodling..

We really need to take a much more serious approch to what balancing is..

I'm not starting this thread for fights this is about balance and getting hu fixed the right way...
I'm not saying this for a fight ether but anyone can read up on how to mod d2 and act like they know everything about the game it doesn't mean that they really know what there doing.. Its clear just by playing Hu this season..

Any of you realize that Hu was 3 times harder then it is now and i'm not talking Jarl and blues crazy change hu season.. I'm talking before that...1.21z before Terry repatched it to make it easier.. That was by far the most balanced this mod ever was.. Not saying lets go back there ..
I'm saying this mod needs to go back in the hands of the people who really care about what Terry first made his idea and vison.. I know many here now were not around in 05 when we first put Hu online but the lvl of modding and skill set was far better then what its now because we cared what we were doing..

If you just want to rage fight with me then your just a tool and have no real clue.. As for the ones that are with me lets make Hu the best mod it can be.. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:25 pm 
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pretty sure psn zon DID get nerfed a couple patches ago, and end game dmg is like 1/3 of what it used to be. Sure the dmg is still a lot if you build 100% squishy, but that's the tradeoff. I don't see any 100% squishy psn zons on hc

EDIT: for reference, imp's tanky poison zon was doing 130k fully end game 100% built. I really don't know why people would go the squishy route, as we did everything through LoS on that zon

kevin's idea of having necros be able to cast corpses was actually implemented in his mod and it makes a lot of sense. It makes skellimancers more viable during boss fights and is balanced via the cast cooldown. PLUS it makes them a lot more fun to play, less herp derp and more activity. I never had as much fun playing a summon necro than on his mod, largely due to this new mechanic.

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Last edited by slappyNuts on Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:26 pm 
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is WF really that bad? It looks like the your main issue is with the removal of ethereal and the +3dmg/lvl, in lieu of an increase to dmg%, some dex, and a lot of resists.

As for you issues with the general way things have gone in this patch (and some before...not blue, etc) why didn't you go through the item list before it was implemented and bring some of this to light rather than poop on them now? I can accept that it was a big list, and some things couldn't really be known until quite awhile afterwards.

Poison has been nerfed at least twice, if not more since 1.21z (where it was never raised as an issue from my recollection)...and sure twinked the fuck out, you can hit those numbers, but not in a regular walkthrough. (sure as hell the same with DR%). Maybe it needs another hit, I am not opposed to considering it.

Be that as it may, put together a list like was done for this patch, let folks see it and discuss some proposed changes. Nobody that made this one ignored you or your suggestions last time...hell i even made items specifically due to some of your suggestions.

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:17 am 
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Well first I was busy with my life so I had no chance to see any changes just the word of the people... And psn isn't really nurfed I know of many that were hitting 100k in norm after I came back.. I watch psn zons right dropping hell Diablo like he was a fly and that shouldn't be like that..
One thing thats bean going on here for years these values are based off of hc so ya with all the safty you need in hc the dmg won't be the same at all..
we need to keep in mind that there are 2 base's to this game sc and hc and there needs to be a equil denominator between the 2.

As for windforce 7xx dmg that it was in the past non eth compared to 4xx is silly for a lvl 90 elite...
You got more dmg because the bow lacked in skills...Its more for a phy bower..
Question whats with the new helm rune words I didn't think ele droods and summoners needed anything more... Why can't we make the new helm rws alittle more user friendly for other chars?

Oblivion.. Another question I was told i'm silly for wanting to put a 10 medi on it when you guys put fana on everything there is ... Count how many items and rws that have fana and how many with medi..There are 2 rws with medi and 6 to 7 items with fana..
PURITY is just worthless who is going to waist to jahs on that now...
If anything put medi back on purity and take medi off Hwill .. Doing that changes everything and puts more thought into a foher then lets just get a hwill and all is good ....
Whos stupid idea was it to put tele back on Trang set the hole idea of taking it of it was to nerf that set some .. Glad to see how long that lasted..

Just seems to me that there is alot of love being spread to only certain builds such as ele droods summoners and psn builds .. Shit you don't even need leet gear for these builds to just walk over everything..
Just saying there is alot more work to be done to make this mod more balanced ... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:25 am 
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Sry for the Dpost ... Don't anyone take what i'm saying as a personal dig or anything I understand how much time goes into this..Just speeking my mind thats all.. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:19 am 
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quick reply before i head out to lunch

-poison damage was nerfed at high end mainly, not low end. Also pierce and +% were lowered overall. Again maybe not enough, but normal is well...normal. I get your point, though it seems to be pretty extraordinary cases like i mentioned before. I have a lvl 5x poison nec, and he isn't hitting anywhere near that. Plus that assumes that you get the full length of the poison which you don't on bosses...by a long shot. Trash is killed easily with a lot lower values.

Maybe WF is too weak, I don't have experience with it to argue.
Druid helm, etc: these were made due to the severe lack of them compared to how many nec/pally etc only items. No issue that maybe we should add a few more general ones in there...come up with somethin that you would like to see.

Purity/HWill. Have seen this point not too long ago. The amount of heal that was out there from meditation was deemed to damn high. I don't quite buy the barbs are better healers now due to it, but I won't just sit and disagree for arguements sake.

Oblivion: do you mean Authority, because I don't see fanat on that RW.

Sure there is more to be done, but the main focus was melee, with some love to other things as secondary. Those that made the lists and implemented them made the calls ONLY AFTER MONTHS after people could see and debate them.

I don't take much personally. I do appreciate the comment

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:14 pm 
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Fana is on these items.. Faith.Beast.Authority.Brand.etc....

No no I wanted lvl10 medi on Oblivion for Bone necs and ce necs to have some love with this aura..Remmber ce is a mana eating beast ..

As for a new idea for a helm rune word give me a day or 2 to come up with something fitting.. My idea will be something with zod becuase there isn't one... And perhaps we should look at that other helm rw and maybe fix it some ..The one with holy shock on it.. My bad I can't remmber its name off hand lol..

Hwill and Purity.. I would take medi off of Hwill and put it back on purity.. Reason why is this will make a foher have to put points in medi rather then them just get it from hwill..Plus if the foher wants to use purity because of the medi on it they will loose the skill points and dmg out put .. And it will kill the bo barb heal bots.. Reason these bots heal so well is 2 times hwill and a holy crafted amulet plus a + 10 right off the bat to bo.. Thats just a example..

Psn .. They hit this dmg with crafted rings and amulets that are lvl 50ish in range from leet moon crafts..Perhaps put a cap on lvls for moon crafted amulets and rings.. Example would be the moon craft can't be lower then say lvl 70ish...Just an idea...

Another thing that I seen was Marrow walk boots.. Lvl 33 bone prison? Getting cought in these isn't fun plus at higher lvl boss's its not very affective..Blades are a far better tank then bone prison and they don't lock your tank in a fight... :lol:

Cheers ... Going to farm some runes now for my eth Dscale ..

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:25 pm 
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Zod Helm Rune Word

No Discrimination

Cham Zod Jah Ber

1-5 Holy Fire on equip
1-5 holy shock on equip
1-5 holy freeze on equip
plus 3 to all skills
20 fcr
20 ias

This isn't complete... Just a starter idea that poped in my head ... Feal free to add mods or talk about it... The idea is for Multy magic builds sorc's avengers etc.. Cheers 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:47 pm 
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that helm is so weird... i kinda like it... not sure i'd invest the runes required for it though

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Ya the idea was to be wierd and differant from the norm..

Well if you add the runes mods it get pretty neat

Cbf
10 max mana / life
7% dr
indy..

I will dble check on rune mods... 8-)

Edit...

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:13 pm 
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on second thought, i would totally rock that on my fclaw druid in an eth +3 oak/fclaw pelt XD

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:53 pm 
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I was also thinking something like 1 to natrual res but not sure if it would be to much...I will come up with some more things in abit.. I do my best thinking ingame .. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:08 pm 
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Zod Helm Rune Word

No Discrimination

Cham Zod Jah Ber

1-5 Holy Fire on equip
1-5 holy shock on equip
1-5 holy freeze on equip
plus 3 to all skills
20 fcr
20 ias
220 ed
1 to Natrual res
Cbf... cham
Indy...zod
Jah...10max mana/life
Ber....7%dr

What do you guys think ?? 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:50 am 
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since this is kinda turning into the new ideas thread-
fstorm got taken from werebear form, so it's kind of a useless synergy to fclaw now. How about changing the fclaw synergy from fstorm over to boulder, fissure, or volcano, and allowing one of those to be cast in bear form? All 3 of those fire skills are very underutilized so I think we'd be killing 2 birds with one stone here.

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:46 am 

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slappyNuts wrote:
since this is kinda turning into the new ideas thread-
fstorm got taken from werebear form, so it's kind of a useless synergy to fclaw now. How about changing the fclaw synergy from fstorm over to boulder, fissure, or volcano, and allowing one of those to be cast in bear form? All 3 of those fire skills are very underutilized so I think we'd be killing 2 birds with one stone here.
I kinda disagree here, Slappy no offense. Biters have 2 offensive skills castable while shifted, bite and cane, why should fclaw get benefited by an additional offensive skill while shifted? As is, gear is presently stacked more in favor of fire druids. Warrivs, 3 offensive skills +res (Blackoak one offensive one defensive) Geddon rw adds dr (10%) ar bonus, and slightly (albeit negligible) better ed% (575 vs 500). Outside of Zero staff, no cold weapon adds to 'cane except Valor and Horizons (no socs and crap dmg), while geddon has 3 I can think of including 'geddon and the uniques have pierce and socs. For both cold and fire, there are under utilized skills like twister and the ones you list, they favor the oddball players who want something different.

@Asteroth, nerf poison more? Really? Hmm, I lack Diablo, Baal shards and Anni at lvl 97 and I'm only hitting 115kish dmg over 7 sec. Admittedly I need a few facets, ele rings and ele/zaka ammy. Currently Griff (9%), Templar (-12), HHG, 1 ele craft zon ring, 10/-10 belt +3 jav skill gloves, craft boots, 3 shards, Strokes w/ 3 uber emerarld, crappy Seraph ammy.Based on one skill equaling 5k dmg 160k is upper end for a well dressed zon. 100k at end of normal? Only if lvl 70 and maybe wearing bramble, I was at around 70-80k at lvl 60. Also, without massive pierce normal baal still has a plr of 95% so you have to constantly be hitting him as the psn only lasts about 1 second IF you played one you'd see ;) . Also, when every person wants to SS every boss, psn appears strong, in a full game with max spawn it don't work that way. Same way as running a fohdin min vs max spawn.

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:33 am 
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Lmao you said it your self ... You gear isn't really the greatest... And yes they need more nerf .. you do realize that all you need to do is spam decoy and shoot from a disstance right? Atleast the psn nec has to stab it..

I don't see really any problems with that idea that slappy has but we should also help cold builds aswell so they atleast match each other in skill and gear... 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:56 pm 
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@kwik
I hear your point. I don't think that fire bear druids need another skill, fclaw druids are in a really nice place right now and I'm probably their biggest advocate, but after the fstorm removal from bear form the synergy just doesn't make sense now. I'm not saying they need a buff at all, but never once did I switch to human form and use fstorm last season or this one. And I think just leaving the skills that only get used by "oddball" players is pretty dumb (I'm actually making a full fire elemental druid just to try fissure/volcano/boulder because I've literally never seen anybody make one, not once). Let's put the skills that nobody uses to work and make the build make more sense as a whole, is the mentality behind it.

I would personally say to make it boulder than the other 2. Fissure and volcano would be too much of a long range ability for someone as tanky as a bear tank IMO. Boulder would be a nice situational use for things like running around the corner and finding the anodized elite running to your face. Throw a couple boulders and run away. Also having a spell with some physical dmg compliments would be nice for dealing with immunities.

I don't know, I feel like it makes a lot of sense. If nobody agrees, got any better ideas? Or just leave it as-is?

I do think there are probably other changes that would take priority over this, but someone told me to post my ideas up :)

EDIT: PS, please don't make this change unless there's a ladder reset cuz then I'll have to remake my druid :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Shooting for next patch...

I couldn't agree more about what ya said that you don't see full fire droods..It sure would be nice to see differant builds then just same old same old...
If cold droods lack the qusetion is?Is it in gear or the build it self??

Question..What is the main issue with melee now and post there problems..
I'm not running any melee so far this season and don't know whats up with them and don't want to say anything false about them..


My thoughts on Foh Pallys and the way to balance them better..
Adding a Fourth synergy Sanc aura.. And the only way bypass is acheaved is by maxing sanc ...

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:07 pm 

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Here's my take on what needs done, like it or not.

Maybe a few SMALL tweaks to a few skills, nothing major as balance is fairly decent as is. Most skills, psn included, are about right.

Adjust a few packs to have line of sight on skills, Seraphs, heirophants, liches, those stabbers come to mind. A slight reduction in range on some like hell witches, the can hit you from 1/4th screen away even in max res. Tweak the moncurse confuse, it's a tad much when coupled with amp stacking. I've seen it show over 130 total combined in castle.

Maybe a small tweak to the dmg modifier on weapons especially 2 handers.

I'll add more later.

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:54 pm 
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I've made fire casters, I think that I peetered out on both in late NM. At that point 'geddon was definitively the most damaging of the spells (Later on it could seriously change I suppose). I still used FireStorm the most by far of the other two. Boulder does have it's use, and that is knockback.

The main issue that you run into is cooldowns. That and volcanoe's nexthitdelay. That is pretty dangerous to mess with though. It could take a meh skill to wtf op pretty easily.

Shortening cooldown times may not be the way you want to go either though. It could turn into a lagfest for some (those that use rage's edits so that lag is reduced).

I've always hated (even from LoD) that the melee fire druids (and cold here too) have to spend so much in skills that they are never going to even use. They are virtually the only set of builds that is like this...i am sure people can point more here...but this is essentially the point that slappy is making.

The solution: I have no solid ideas at the moment honestly. What would people thing about making Shockwave more important to Bear builds in general, rather than just maulers, or fury/maul wolf druids (i did as a one point wonder at least)?

Edit should we split this topic at some point so that poison and other stuff is separated? I can, but I don't want to do it just on a whim...that or just make a new post with serious suggestions.

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:42 pm 
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@kramuti
yea you put it into words better than I could. Shockwave is cool with me, more skills to use / more utility = more stuff to keep your hands busy = more fun to play IMO :)

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:43 am 
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Ya we should split this into 2 topics..That way nothing gets left behind.. 8-) .. Cheers for all the imput..

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:14 pm 
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I was looking at this, and it seems that we all answered several topics within a given post. I say to continue here for the moment, and make a new thread once we have a set of panned out ideas...sorry for mentioning splitting, then being asked, and then saying it is a pain in the arse.

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:19 am 
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Don't forget that these builds need to function in an untwinked, unrushed environment.

Are poison builds really over the top in the early days of a ladder? How twinked are the chars who are getting 100k at the end of norm?

Give some thought to the way you want these builds to perform and mesh with others. Do you want everything to deal mediocre damage with high survivability (high survivability seems to be the norm for most builds now) or do you want to bring back the true glass cannon + tank setup we used in the early days of the mod?

I'm not dissagreeing with nerfing poison builds if they are over the top, but I don't think just killing functional builds damage is the answer. Wouldn't it be better if people need to choose between damage + survival or get both via tactical use of skills rather than as default?

You could add an aura to decoy that weakens the party while it is out. The amazon is projecting an image of herself, directing the attention of enemies. The energy to sustain the projection hinders magic damage while within range of the decoy (partys magic/fire/cold/lightning/poison damage).

Something like that brings tactical use to decoy. Burst damage on the enemy > take damage > decoy > recover > burst damage etc. instead of cast decoy > full attack > refresh decoy as needed.

Plague jav shouldn't be both the boss skill and the trash skill. If you make it effective for boss killing, then have the ability to spread that damage over an entire screen, you are asking for trouble. It's very easy to cut the cloud damage by 50% and have the jav deal the full damage. That + something like the suggestion above would mean the zon needs to target a moving enemy and actually hit it with the jav to deal strong damage. AR will matter.
How is the range on javs atm? It should be about 1/2 or less than arrows/bolts range. (Just sayin)

Poison necros: Poison explosion is completely useless, especially in boss fights. Gaining the ability to create a single corpse every 10 secs will let them use this skill for when nova isn't cutting it and its just way to dangerous to go in for a Pstrike. The skill puts out decent numbers, it's just outshined by nova on trash (and corpse explosion) and strike on bosses, so has no real use.
This build is in a pretty good place besides that IMO, lots to do to keep you busy (summoning minions, cursing, attacking, and evading) without being overly complicated.

Rabies: Has a signficant bonus early game over other poison builds. As it applies a state that repeatedly reapplies the poison effect, mostly negating posses natural PLR. They need this early game though (before they get op gear) because rabies damage is crap until A4/5. Coupled with high HP/FHR/Move speed, recastable minions and oak hp to the party it's a beastly (lol) combination. It's power (along with zons) comes from gear and socketables though and that gear isn't available to everyone right away.
Do you want it to be hard for fully twinked completed endgame builds and impossible for untwinked?
A finished char with all charms and the best gear should tear through stuff... They have finished everything already. Why bother in the first place if all you can achieve by getting the best of the best gear is to still be mediocre.

In short, if you take away the cannon, all you are left with is a load of chars who can hold a boss for an hour, and thats a good thing because thats how long you will be spending fighting the same boss.

Ps. Am I the only one who finds it amusing that v1.21 poison damage was almost 4x what it is now?

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Well said PureRage


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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:51 pm 
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First run after reset no one is tweeked.. So I really woundn't want to go by those values .. when you get to mid nm is ware the op crafting starts..
The more I think of these psn builds the more it seems to be the easy gear they can get... After putting alot of thought to these builds I would raise the Moon crafts lvl range to 70 to 99.. That should cut down on some of those super leet ring and amulet crafts that can be lvl 40ish in range..And perhaps take the cloud off the psn jav this will take some lag issues out for some players plus nerf them abit without them looseing to much..

As for the pure fire drood we should figure a way to make them a 80 point build some how.. 100 plus points for one build is abit silly when so many others are only the 60 to 80ish range..


Iso more input on melee builds and there issues... 8-)

Cheers guys..

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:55 pm 

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Kevin hit it spot on, I like what he's saying. Face it guys and gals, HU isn't gonna live forever let keep it playable for all as long as it lasts. "Nerf this it's OP" should be based on several opinions of those who actually play them, I'll freely admit psn builds can be strong, but so are endgame sorc, fclaw, biter, foher and others. Nerf them too?

Asteroth wrote:
As for the pure fire drood we should figure a way to make them a 80 point build some how.. 100 plus points for one build is abit silly when so many others are only the 60 to 80ish range..
While I can in part agree with you, lets also factor the cold ele druid in another 100 point build. Hard part with those two builds is all skills as a synergy, except cyclone armor, are all offensive skills. Which one would you remove and how would you re-balance them. There is no easy way.

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:32 pm 
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slappyNuts wrote:
kevin's idea of having necros be able to cast corpses was actually implemented in his mod


When did this happen? My nec requires bodies for skels.

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:32 am 
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It's the only way I could think of making corpse only skills actually worthwhile on longer boss fights, and the ability to res a DK rather than a mediocro golem or boring blade spam (DK should be the main skelemancer tank IMO but requiring a corpse makes it little more than an oak that does mediocre damage with a worse aura and can't be resumoned on most boss fights.)

It's not implemented yet, only in my SP version I play in the evenings when working away from home, and it can always be removed if you decide to use it as a realm patch.
Still a ways off being finished yet tho, my spare time is sperodic as fuck atm.

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:59 pm 
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FuryCury wrote:
slappyNuts wrote:
kevin's idea of having necros be able to cast corpses was actually implemented in his mod


When did this happen? My nec requires bodies for skels.


I meant on NR, not HU

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:28 am 

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Hmm... I'd like to point out something here. I keep hearing this is op that is op, from people who basically have that grasses greener mentality. For example someone in game was telling me how op 2xHwills are on barb. Then minutes later was telling me how he's gearing his FoH Paladin for solo Baal runs. Then in fact posts in this thread how the medi should be removed from hwill and put on a paladin only shield. 2 Hwills on a Barb can not solo baal runs. Foh Paladin can solo baal runs. And yet the complaints of OP go to all the builds that aren't exploited by the one complaining.


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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:01 pm 
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What.. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:49 pm 
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Back to this idea of havin a recastable dk or skelly is beyond op and it shouldn't be add to this next patch... In history the Necromancer or Malifacarum needed bodys to perform there rituals they didn't poof a dead body out of the sky lmfao.. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:51 am 

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The real issue with poison is that you can get away with almost no survivability and poor player skills because you only have to hit the target once every x seconds to have a DPS that is still better than most in an untwinked environment...

The ease of use <-> power balance remains skewed. If people want to poison their way through challenging bosses it should be a very slow process. (I'm sure people already underspawn plenty as is.)
Duration needs to go down.


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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 3:08 pm 
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corr, there has been a suggested fix to poison posted by kramuti in another thread (organized feedback i think). I think most people agree with you, there have been a couple good ideas for change so far, I think it's still up for discussion as the patch gets worked on

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:52 pm 
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Direct poison damage has been nerfed several times. I don't really see the point it doing it more at this time. Other builds are performing pretty well at the moment comparatively. Brevan has made the change that most agreed on. I don't see the point of adding even more of a nerf that we just did by not allowing zons in particular to not reset the timer using ranged skills.

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 Post subject: Re: Psn builds and other issues
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:19 pm 

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Corr wrote:
The real issue with poison is that you can get away with almost no survivability and poor player skills because you only have to hit the target once every x seconds to have a DPS that is still better than most in an untwinked environment...

The ease of use <-> power balance remains skewed. If people want to poison their way through challenging bosses it should be a very slow process. (I'm sure people already underspawn plenty as is.)
Duration needs to go down.
In part I can agree, many use psn for the ease of killing. I will also 110% agree with the low spawn problem. That's one massive reason builds like plaguezons and FoHers are seemingly overpowered. If played in a properly spawned game, they perform as they should, stout without decimating everything in wtfpwn fashion.

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