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 Post subject: Tone down FoH pallies just a little.. a tiny bit?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:15 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
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They are pretty overboard and it is widely acknowledged. Small nerf imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Tone down FoH pallies just a little.. a tiny bit?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:05 am 
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How are they OP? Who know's they're OP? What should be done to them?

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 Post subject: Re: Tone down FoH pallies just a little.. a tiny bit?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Don't forget to post examples using no outside buffs. If they need at least 1 other player/char to support them then they are not OP IMO.

Hopefully your not basing your point on fully kitted out endgame FoH pally controlled by a seasoned HU player. The 95% of the game before that you don't have amazing gear etc. and not everyone is capable of playing a char to it's full potential.

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 Post subject: Re: Tone down FoH pallies just a little.. a tiny bit?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:11 pm 
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but pious can solo everything with one so it must be OP
IMO pious needs a nerf

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 Post subject: Re: Tone down FoH pallies just a little.. a tiny bit?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:18 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
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Drrod made a suggestion thread talking about them needing toned down for one. For two I played one in normal and they are capable of range attacking and bypassing boss resists with tank gear. It makes them exceptionally better than most characters at boss killing not to mention the fact that not many bosses are immune to magic.

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 Post subject: Re: Tone down FoH pallies just a little.. a tiny bit?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:45 pm 

Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 7:36 am
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Don't forget to post examples using no outside buffs. If they need at least 1 other player/char to support them then they are not OP IMO.

Hopefully your not basing your point on fully kitted out endgame FoH pally controlled by a seasoned HU player. The 95% of the game before that you don't have amazing gear etc. and not everyone is capable of playing a char to it's full potential.


Kev you know better and I respect you so much more than this. Just look at a FoH paladins kit... end of discussion. And for all of the trolling imbeciles lurking about, kit is referring to their combined skill set.

I don't even have to play one, see one played, or know anything at all about their current popularity to know they are overpowered.


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 Post subject: Re: Tone down FoH pallies just a little.. a tiny bit?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:08 pm 
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Are we talking a damage nerf? Or increase the mana req on foh? Currently FoH has a static cost of 30 mana, should it start at 30 and go up .5 or 1 mana per point? Hard to have enough mana to cast that in melee gear.

I personally wouldn't like to see the bypass removed due to the fact +% magic damage doesn't work and -magic res is much harder to obtain than other elemental damage. Making the 10k foh damage almost worthless in most cases.

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 Post subject: Re: Tone down FoH pallies just a little.. a tiny bit?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:56 am 
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Popular build don't mean it's OP, just means it's effective. Nerf FoH and folks will just find the next best and go with that. Then someone will claim the new build is OP because its popular and that'll get nerfed. :|

It's a back line job skill, sure you are tanky with bo/oak etc. but so are a lot of other builds. As a dps skill, i'd say it's good whare it's at. As Jay says, adjustments to cost etc. fine, but lets not get rid of a well functioning skill.

This isn't 2006 anymore, d2/mods are old news. Mods need to be appealing to new and old players. Nerfing everything thats effective will do nothing but drive folks away. You can make the game challenging yourself by not playing the cookie cutter builds, new players can't magically make the game easier to ease into it though.

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 Post subject: Re: Tone down FoH pallies just a little.. a tiny bit?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:03 pm 
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Just read that you are basing it on your experience through normal mode... ugh.

You can solo norm untwinked on a Jabzon, we should nerf those too. :lol:
Nerf FoH and everyone just defaults to poizon again.

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 Post subject: Re: Tone down FoH pallies just a little.. a tiny bit?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:42 pm 

Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 7:36 am
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
This isn't 2006 anymore, d2/mods are old news. Mods need to be appealing to new and old players. Nerfing everything thats effective will do nothing but drive folks away.


That is the first and only logical argument you have made against FoH being nerfed and it is a completely acceptable reason. The rest is simply rhetoric.

And FuryCury, the build is not overpowered due to the bypass mechanic. The build is overpowered because FoH is not tied to an aura. Instead make the bypass conditional when a specific aura is running like sanctuary (I have no idea if sanctuary was changed since I last played), but that would seem like a logical aura to grant the mechanic to. Much like concentration buffs hammers. And now you have the same flexibility, but with choices.

I hope I don't need to explain to anyone why attaching the bypass to a lesser used aura fixes the issue. I truly hope this narrow minded community has gained some proverbial IQ (don't worry Asteroth I am not referring to you).


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 Post subject: Re: Tone down FoH pallies just a little.. a tiny bit?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Having sanctuary aura effect FoH would be possible, but pretty limited as to what it could effect without some custom missile function code.

You can have it's damage increase by having sanctuary active, or the number of missiles spawned on collision. You can't tie the bypass to an aura, the missile itself uses the "Holy" bitfilter in missiles.txt for that to work.
The column only accepts 1,2,3,4,5,6 or 7 like so:

1: ignore undead
2: ignore demons
3: ignore undead and demons (1 + 2)
4: ignore beasts
5: ignore beasts and undead (4 + 1)
6: Ignore beasts and demons (4 + 2)
7: ignore everything (1 + 2 + 4)

You can scale FoH dmage down by 50% then have sanctuary increase its damage by 5% per hard point while its active to hit the current damage.

To do that, create a new line in itemstatcost.txt, (can copy pierce fire or something) and name it whatever you like. sanctuary_dummy would be fine.
Then in skills.txt scroll down to the sanctuary line and in the next free aurastat column, add sanctuary_dummy with calc = blvl (or lvl if you want it based on soft points). Finally, go to FoH synergy column (near the end of the file) and add a synergy calc using the sanctuary_dummy stat.

3% damage per sanctuary level while its active would be:
stat('sanctuary_dummy'.accr)*parX whare X would be the param column you put the % per level increase (any free param column is fine).

Since you only get the sanctuary_dummy stat when the aura is active, you also only get the damage boost while its active.

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 Post subject: Re: Tone down FoH pallies just a little.. a tiny bit?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:25 pm 
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Foh pallies are a bit strong, but I agree with what Purerage said. Almost no one plays this mod anymore. If we start nerfing slightly strong builds into the ground even more will lose interest.

A better use of time would be improving the weaker builds and fixing bugs and other problems like the act5 merc fix I suggested.

Then later we can focus on tuning foh/hammer pallies since they have been a controversial topic for years now it seems.

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