Login | Register


All times are UTC - 5 hours


It is currently Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:23 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:19 pm
Posts: 618
Location: Reno NV
I kind of feel this skill could use a nerf, by removing the demon bypass. I don't see anyway else to balance it. It's simply too powerful against endgame bosses, mostly from the build's survivability, and how demon bypass allows you to go full tank gear. All you have to do is slap on some tank gear and hold down a button. No other caster can accomplish this without sacrificing a ton of survivability towards pierce. Not to mention it's ability to wreck Hell Baal like no other at the moment due to aforementioned bypass.

I'd recommend removing the demon bypass, and buffing the damage so it has to rely on pierce like all the other casters. I really don't want to see another boss killer go, but this build is probably the most well rounded boss killer right now, and the most capable of soloing big boys like Hell Baal. If Baal's immunities were removed(which I think they shouldn't be) I could see the argument of it being kept in place just by how it can be much slower to kill than the other powerhouse builds.

Thoughts?


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:28 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 1672
I do agree foh is one of the best boss killers ATM, but without it Imp and me simply could not have been able to kill Hell Baal. I suppose as long as Baal doesn't have magic immune as one that randomly appears on him then it would just make the fight a bit longer (and more reliant on pierce), but still doable.

But that's just one boss, for every other non psn immune boss I still think psn jav is better (less counters, decoy for tank) and while other builds/classes simply cannot be useful dps at boss fights, I question whether we should be nerfing the capable boss killers, or buffing the other ones.

I guess I'm not opposed to removing demon bypass, just a bit wary of losing a capable boss killer

_________________
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Cowards die in shame, I ain't afraid to lose a char, it's not like it's important. :lol:


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:19 pm
Posts: 618
Location: Reno NV
Yeah the more I think about it they seem to be in a pretty good place balance wise. It's a cool and unique build so I'm hesitant to suggest messing with it as well.

Another idea I was throwing around was to switch the bypass' again with hammers&foh, and keep hammer damage relatively under control. At least that way you have to be in melee range to do your irresistible magic damage.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 282
Talked with slap about this a bit ago and figured I would toss this out there.

How about adding foh the synergy of Sanctuary? Like how hammers need conc to really be viable becasuse of the dmg buff. What if sanctuary's magic dmg was added to only FOH and Melee? Would this give foh the nice dmg boost if bypass was removed? Would also help them with 20% more peirce. iirc most fohers dont have alot of peirce (compared to other ele builds)

With this being the Case you can still build a nice phys and magic dmg din. Without maxing holyshield that is. Or you could sacrafice your phys side for more Tank abilities or healing abilities.

_________________
Lee is a fucking moron.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:08 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 1672
if added synergy to sanc, foh build would be 20 foh/bolt/hammer/sanc/prayer. Really solid build still. +1 to that idea if demon bypass is removed. Not sure how much magic dmg sanc adds since I've never pumped points into it though.. maybe it will need to be altered a bit to suit foh

_________________
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Cowards die in shame, I ain't afraid to lose a char, it's not like it's important. :lol:


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:46 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:16 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Lost, In Between Nothingness
i couldnt directly add the magic damage from sanc to foh, but i could make it boost foh's damage like conc does for hammers. The way hammers work is they get 1/2 the enhanced damage boost from conc. i could do something similar for foh as in giving it a boost equal to a 1/4 of the damage enhancement listed for demons. to make this work would more than likely require a reset since i would have to make a hidden stat for it.

_________________
Practice safe trolling and be wary of spambots they have squaids.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:32 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 282
slappyNuts wrote:
if added synergy to sanc, foh build would be 20 foh/bolt/hammer/sanc/prayer. Really solid build still. +1 to that idea if demon bypass is removed. Not sure how much magic dmg sanc adds since I've never pumped points into it though.. maybe it will need to be altered a bit to suit foh


You wouldnt have to go prayer unless you wanted to heal. Could easily switch for hshield or even concentration to have a dual element build.

_________________
Lee is a fucking moron.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:02 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:26 am
Posts: 490
Location: Richmond Va
Really? If you guys nerf foh...a single target skill that at lvl 46 doesnt break 12k damage....then you need to nerf EVERY skill in the game. Fire druids are MUCH stronger than fohers...any poison character is MUCH stronger than fohers...bliz/meteor sorcs are MUCH stronger than fohers. The list goes on.

What makes foh good is you dont have to have super tweaked endgame gear to be viable vs a boss. However, even with the super tweaked endgame gear you arent much stronger. The other mentioned builds at 99 with shards/anni/los/sammy charms do TONS more dps vs bosses.

200k poison damage with -100 res rapes 5x what foh does vs a boss. 75k fire storm with the same -100 res? You guessed it...rapes.

Physical damage vs bosses is broken...Not viable in the least, even with curses. We havent even started to balance melee....if Im not mistaken this was the whole point of the patch? Isnt that what the entire community was bitching about for 2 years? Melee is still "broken". Instead of focusing on the main issue we are nit picking builds that dont even fall into the "overpowered" category.

_________________
I was never more at home than I was in battle. - Solomon Kane


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 282
haha

_________________
Lee is a fucking moron.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:02 pm
Posts: 31
FuryCury wrote:
Really? If you guys nerf foh...a single target skill that at lvl 46 doesnt break 12k damage....then you need to nerf EVERY skill in the game. Fire druids are MUCH stronger than fohers...any poison character is MUCH stronger than fohers...bliz/meteor sorcs are MUCH stronger than fohers. The list goes on.

What makes foh good is you dont have to have super tweaked endgame gear to be viable vs a boss. However, even with the super tweaked endgame gear you arent much stronger. The other mentioned builds at 99 with shards/anni/los/sammy charms do TONS more dps vs bosses.

200k poison damage with -100 res rapes 5x what foh does vs a boss. 75k fire storm with the same -100 res? You guessed it...rapes.

Physical damage vs bosses is broken...Not viable in the least, even with curses. We havent even started to balance melee....if Im not mistaken this was the whole point of the patch? Isnt that what the entire community was bitching about for 2 years? Melee is still "broken". Instead of focusing on the main issue we are nit picking builds that dont even fall into the "overpowered" category.


Completely Agree


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:19 pm
Posts: 618
Location: Reno NV
I guess it's just different on HC. FoH is the only build we've seen consistently taking out NM/Hell Baal with relative ease(in fact the only build so far for the Hell part). A lot of it is due to it being able to bypass the random immunity, and some of it comes from them being one of the few tanky casters out there. But for SC sake they're fine when you can have glass cannons blasting everything to oblivion without much worry.

Like I said in my follow up post I generally think they're fine balance wise, they fill a niche role that's rarely seen in HU. No one was screaming omg nerf ASAP it was just a discussion, and it looks like most people feel they're fine or are on the fence about it. Case closed.

And as far as melee goes, they'll be fixed in the upcoming bug patch dew's putting out. For general numbers dew told me he wants to scrap his pdr stuff, and set amp to around -50 lategame with 1 point, and -70 if you max it. I'm not sure if he's putting the DR% back on the bosses he took off so he could work off his pdr formula, but I assume so. So with -70 amp we're looking at approximately 25% less physical pierce than 1.21z, which should still be plenty. Especially since DS and CB are finally back in the game in decent values.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:15 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 525
i have no idea how much buffing has been done for melees but i seriously doubt it was enough to make them comparable to an foher. there really is no point to making a melee when you have a caster tank. fire druids are caster-tanky also, which is why they are so powerful. heres a few things to consider:

iron maiden- the bane of melees. dps melees cannot fight vs IM and tank melees do pitiful dmg to deal with it. a caster blows past this with ease.

tanky- fire druids and paladins can be just as heavy relative to dmg as any melee. my paladin on hc last ladder was extremely heavy and brought down bosses at will.

hit rate - melees have to sacrifice survival stats just to get enough AR to hit consistently. only smiters are the exception (foher with smite backup gear wins). a caster? always hits, and hits hard at that. this is also a pain item wise because foher can stack purely survival gear, a melee needs to sacrifice survival in order to get AR.

boss resist - this is the kicker. even a fire druid has to get some pierce to laugh at bosses. the foher can get 0 and pummel them into the ground stacking all defensive stats. what about melees? you need a 2nd player to cast amp for you. you also need crushing blow and if you're fighting diablo/baal you have to strip dmg to avoid IM deaths.

a paladin of this type fulfills the same roll as a melee tank AND deals high-consistent dmg to solo a boss. from an hc perspective, there is literally no point in making a melee over an foher, unless it has a special purpose like LOS.

i would take an foher over a CI 2 hand melee any day, because attack rating /chance to miss doesn't compare with auto-hit bypass no curse necessary tank. oh, and if you want to rub salt in the wounds, you can put a CB setup on and 1 point smite/cb + amp on your foher too. this will out perform any ar-based melee any day on an act boss.

one last note. the moment i saw purerage put the bypass on foh i knew it was OP off the bat. i pretty much carried 2 random guys to first hell baal on sc w/ no hp buffs with this build last ladder (prior to beta). but everyone is so scared of OP melees that they must be kept in chains!


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:52 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:26 am
Posts: 490
Location: Richmond Va
Pious wrote:
i have no idea how much buffing has been done for melees but i seriously doubt it was enough to make them comparable to an foher.


Didn't try to compare melee and foh. I did compare foh to other casters/elemental builds, and the fact that after a week or 2 of farming that those other ele/caster builds do better vs bosses than foh.

Most melee builds are still pretty shitty, and only good for pot running/distracting when it comes to act bosses or any boss like Nihla/Sammy/AnB.

The purpose of my post was to dissuade some from nerfing a viable build. I personally don't think foh is teh wtf pwnzor that people make it out to be. When I quested hell with my paly, I played the roll of a medic much more often than I did a foher. If my paly could be accused of being OP it would be for the fact he heals 650+ life per pulse and keeps party members alive in boss fights.

Whoever on HC that has the foher, and killed baal with him, had BO/oak and maybe curse support. Thats 3 characters working together to kill baal, just so happens the foher did the damage. Like to see him solo baal w/o oak/bo. My zon with bo/LR STOMPS baal faster, easier, and with less counters than a foher. A rabies druid and poison nec could do the same. Even other ele builds with my healer and some LR could do baal. The fact is baal wasn't soloed, and a foher isnt the best/only way to kill him.

_________________
I was never more at home than I was in battle. - Solomon Kane


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:18 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 282
FuryCury wrote:
Pious wrote:

Whoever on HC that has the foher, and killed baal with him, had BO/oak and maybe curse support. Thats 3 characters working together to kill baal, just so happens the foher did the damage. Like to see him solo baal w/o oak/bo. My zon with bo/LR STOMPS baal faster, easier, and with less counters than a foher. A rabies druid and poison nec could do the same. Even other ele builds with my healer and some LR could do baal. The fact is baal wasn't soloed, and a foher isnt the best/only way to kill him.


was me and slap that did it on hc... We had level 38 bo, and round about the same oak. was just slappy running around on his fire claws keeping the oak up and un caging me. bo ran out half way through the fight. there was no curse support and it was an epic fun fight. definately not easy. I sure the foher could solo baal himself (not the minions) with his wisp and self bo.

_________________
Lee is a fucking moron.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:07 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 1672
hey I hit him a couple times... lol

_________________
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Cowards die in shame, I ain't afraid to lose a char, it's not like it's important. :lol:


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:22 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:57 am
Posts: 177
Location: Australia
with about 99% PERFECT gear i solod hell baal with lvl 52 bo and i had 54 oak in the room (but wasnt on me most of the time) on my healer foher. if any other char on the realm was geared that well / expensively then they deserve to solo hell baal in less than the 5 or so solid hours it took. if a say fire druid was geared that well itd take him about 1 n a half (thats with merc killing the fire immunes and fi bosses) if even. healer foher does not need a nerf its just consistant. has low potential compared to most but high consistency.

_________________
Died on hc to "orb of town portal" skill


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:36 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 1672
Qwazym wrote:
with about 99% PERFECT gear i solod hell baal with lvl 52 bo and i had 54 oak in the room (but wasnt on me most of the time) on my healer foher. if any other char on the realm was geared that well / expensively then they deserve to solo hell baal in less than the 5 or so solid hours it took. if a say fire druid was geared that well itd take him about 1 n a half (thats with merc killing the fire immunes and fi bosses) if even. healer foher does not need a nerf its just consistant. has low potential compared to most but high consistency.


its not called soloing if there was someone there with you lol

_________________
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Cowards die in shame, I ain't afraid to lose a char, it's not like it's important. :lol:


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:47 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:57 am
Posts: 177
Location: Australia
there was nobody there with me, it was me playing with more than 1 char loaded. i didnt fight with any other char but there was a summon druid in the room before (Where u leave bo bitch usually)

_________________
Died on hc to "orb of town portal" skill


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:33 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:41 pm
Posts: 232
Zeratul wrote:
FuryCury wrote:
Really? If you guys nerf foh...a single target skill that at lvl 46 doesnt break 12k damage....then you need to nerf EVERY skill in the game. Fire druids are MUCH stronger than fohers...any poison character is MUCH stronger than fohers...bliz/meteor sorcs are MUCH stronger than fohers. The list goes on.

What makes foh good is you dont have to have super tweaked endgame gear to be viable vs a boss. However, even with the super tweaked endgame gear you arent much stronger. The other mentioned builds at 99 with shards/anni/los/sammy charms do TONS more dps vs bosses.

200k poison damage with -100 res rapes 5x what foh does vs a boss. 75k fire storm with the same -100 res? You guessed it...rapes.

Physical damage vs bosses is broken...Not viable in the least, even with curses. We havent even started to balance melee....if Im not mistaken this was the whole point of the patch? Isnt that what the entire community was bitching about for 2 years? Melee is still "broken". Instead of focusing on the main issue we are nit picking builds that dont even fall into the "overpowered" category.


Completely Agree

I agree also.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:26 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Hell
I agree with Jay to we need to get to the real problem and thats melee....



I hate to say this but I still think the best way to balance this is to go back to 1.21z and start from there again... It seems to me that this mod went way to far from what it was and no one knows how to fix it... :?

_________________
P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:39 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:57 am
Posts: 177
Location: Australia
Asteroth wrote:
I hate to say this but I still think the best way to balance this is to go back to 1.21z and start from there again..

2 things.
a) u love to say this.
b) what were the values of things that made 1.12z soo good? why dont we try returning the values to these and trialing it?? just with boss phys resists. cb, deadly strike etc.
edit: and ofc amp

_________________
Died on hc to "orb of town portal" skill


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:47 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Hell
Lmao 1.21z is still way better then this shit atm plz.....

Let me ask you this what really was fixed ??? ... Its bean 3 freaking years sence blue and his dev teams patch and where are we in fixing the mod no where... All I see is ele chars getting all the love with the mass amount of new gear they get now and that goes with pallys how much gear do they need really now there over the top... To me thats not balancing to me its just senceless noodling around with files... And before you start your all god hc rant the truth is just what it is the truth...I bean telling you guys the best way to fix this crap atm is to go back to Terrys last patch and start over with a fresh start...But I understand ego's are at stake here so owell we will wait 2 more years then maybe Hu will be the game it once was Lmfao.. :lol:


And If you want to balance Fohers just cut there dmg back from fohs synergys and keep the bypass... The bypass will keep them from healing but won't totally pound the crap out of a boss...Instead of 20ish k foh at end game it should be around 10 - 12k 8-)

_________________
P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:36 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:01 pm
Posts: 1383
Egos have nothing to do with it Asteroth. Terry (not anybody else...remember that ffs) said we will not be going back to 1.21z. I am sorry if this beta is not fast enough, or isn't that beloved patch. If you want further changes to melee after the pdr fix, then suggest something reasonable. It's not like nobody has listened to what you have said...the proc'd amp changes were basically what you stated. So if egos are in the way, I am not sure who you are referring to.

_________________
The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:02 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:26 am
Posts: 490
Location: Richmond Va
Asteroth wrote:
And If you want to balance Fohers just cut there dmg back from fohs synergys and keep the bypass... The bypass will keep them from healing but won't totally pound the crap out of a boss...Instead of 20ish k foh at end game it should be around 10 - 12k 8-)


Who has 20k Foh?

Image

At lvl 47 it is only 12k. That's with Heavens Will and Dscale. Only things Im missing are los/sammy, and each point to foh deant even add 500 to it.....

My poison java kills bosses 3x faster than foh. Come on Chuck, do your homework or stfu. Not trying to be mean, but it is what it is.

_________________
I was never more at home than I was in battle. - Solomon Kane


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:12 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 1672
lvl 45 foh clocking in at 11k here...

_________________
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Cowards die in shame, I ain't afraid to lose a char, it's not like it's important. :lol:


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:34 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:57 am
Posts: 177
Location: Australia
no matter what i did i couldnt get foh past 13k, but i had EVERYTHING cept los heart and mancer charm

_________________
Died on hc to "orb of town portal" skill


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:02 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 523
Qwazym wrote:
Asteroth wrote:
I hate to say this but I still think the best way to balance this is to go back to 1.21z and start from there again..

2 things.
a) u love to say this.
b) what were the values of things that made 1.12z soo good? why dont we try returning the values to these and trialing it?? just with boss phys resists. cb, deadly strike etc.
edit: and ofc amp

1.21Z was rather easy, prob why he liked it so well. Even back then casters dominated the landscape, only difference was phys dmg was on the map simply cuz of amp progression and nothing more. Fuck, even as a rookie I found it somewhat easy rolling throw most of hell. I watched a psn nova necro destroy Baal in an 8ppl spawn with virtually nothing more than healer assisting. Part of the problem with last patch was there were significant changes, and a lack of change to bring phys dmg up to snuff. IMO, a change in either amp or bosshat by around 10% would have made a world of difference without being game breaking due in part to lowered cb and ds values.

I rather tend to ignore Assteorth as it's the same drivel every post. Not to mention how many times it's been said no reverting to 1.21z, even as a base. Therefore, we must move on, and continue building 1.3C and beyond. While I may not agree 100% on the overall changes, I find most to be good ones.

_________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:13 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
The FoH pally still needs supported by other chars to perform well. Try using it in a 6-8 spawn game as the only DPS and tell me it's OP then... The skill gets worse and worse the more players there are. If peeps didn't single spawn, they would know this. It's only OP because people are stacking the cards in their favour.

Compare it to poison, whare pretty much all pois gear has pierce and skill dmg% on it already. You don't have to sacrifice slots for pierce because its on the gear you would use anyway, + you can pierce to -100, doubling your damage. -50% is more likely, factoring in res etc. It's still a lot more damage than FoH and you can apply it and spend the next 8-9 sec simply kiting, sygnificantly increasing survivability.

Ie. try soloing something like Amon in an 8 spawn game with FoH, then do it with a poizon/rabies druid.
Sure it's rare to see a full spawn game, but people who choose to spawn propperly shouldn't be punished for it.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:55 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 282
snap, kev come back and lay the hammer down or what!

_________________
Lee is a fucking moron.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:47 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Hell
Lol... Miss typed was refering to 1.2z with 20 k foh...I havn't played a pally this beta knowing that Foh is a beast...14 k foh with alot of - magic = 20ish k lmao...

See you people allways lose my point with 1.21z
1 we wouldn't have lost 3/4 of are community
2 there really wasn't anything to be fixed ex.. small fixs and nerfs
3 fastest way to make 1.21z harder was to raise the diffaculty across the bourd changed the 2 spawn diff to 4 or 5 would have fixed this issue that Jarl started with the game is to easy... And besides at lvl 99 100 the game should be easy for that lvl with all the leet gear and thats how it should be at end game (hence END GAME)..


Here is my question what is rewarding in hu now? soul shards some 95s and a charm thats just stupid to get for lvl 101.. The fact is is that hu isn't no where near rewarding as it once was back in the day and nether is the replay value .. You get lvl 99 get the lvl 99 charms soul shards simple loot and game is over for that toon....It was ten times harder to get a stash full of skill gc's then this and plus it kept the people farmin for them all the time and skill gc's helped the trade seen..And not to mention that there was lot more hybrid chars plus a way better variady of boss killers then what is now..
Its sad if you can't realize how bad this game is anymore..

I think most that are agenst me should get there head out of the clouds and see the real picture that this tinkering with files isn't fixing shit.. 8-)

_________________
P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 523
Asteroth wrote:
See you people allways lose my point with 1.21z
1 we wouldn't have lost 3/4 of are community
2 there really wasn't anything to be fixed ex.. small fixs and nerfs
3 fastest way to make 1.21z harder was to raise the diffaculty across the bourd changed the 2 spawn diff to 4 or 5 would have fixed this issue that Jarl started with the game is to easy... And besides at lvl 99 100 the game should be easy for that lvl with all the leet gear and thats how it should be at end game (hence END GAME)..

Once again, you fail to realize, adding spawn don't make it harder only more tedious. A 10 min boss fight becomes 20, not any harder just longer. True, much of what could have been done was a series of smaller tweaks, I will give you that one. As to this "at lvl 99 100 the game should be easy for that lvl with all the leet gear" can anyone say DUH?!?!?!?!?!?!

Asteroth wrote:
I think most that are agenst me should get there head out of the clouds and see the real picture that this tinkering with files isn't fixing shit.. 8-)
As for not fixing shit, I disagree. However, far too many builds are being taken from novelty types (vengers come to mind) and attempting to make most viable in all aspects whether it be trasher or boss killer. Each of the last 3 changes have had good and bad, just like your vaunted 1.21z had both. Face facts, we have what we have, either play it or leave, makes no difference to me.

_________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:51 am
Posts: 34
Asteroth wrote:
I hate to say this but I still think the best way to balance this is to go back to 1.21z and start from there again... It seems to me that this mod went way to far from what it was and no one knows how to fix it... :?

I completely agree with this. I recognize to Soulmancer the *rare* ability to BALANCE things and to make a CLEAN mod, unlike most other modders. But I never understood why he gave up his own mod, and why he gave it to some incompetents people on top of that (not all), why he doesn't give a shit is beyond me.

Someone said mancer would have asked to go further and not going "back" to a previous patch; really ? He didn't posted anything, he doesn't seem to play and he has obviously no clue about what is going on for years, he just doesn't care. So it's a null argument. If he said that then he's just mocking at the players. Does he think we're retarded ? I think he does. Funny how he used to fix his character's unbalances made by his co-modders when he played; he did this many times. He knows the modders he had chosen don't know how to balance... But for many years now he's not there to fix their unbalances, he made mistakes by chosing incompetent people who trashed his mod, so, who really cares about what he thinks ? I believe the decent modders should work from 1.21z.

Asteroth wrote:
Let me ask you this what really was fixed ??? ... Its bean 3 freaking years sence blue and his dev teams patch and where are we in fixing the mod no where... All I see is ele chars getting all the love with the mass amount of new gear they get now and that goes with pallys how much gear do they need really now there over the top... To me thats not balancing to me its just senceless noodling around with files... And before you start your all god hc rant the truth is just what it is the truth...I bean telling you guys the best way to fix this crap atm is to go back to Terrys last patch and start over with a fresh start...But I understand ego's are at stake here so owell we will wait 2 more years then maybe Hu will be the game it once was Lmfao.. :lol:

Again I agree. I've played HU since 1.15 (2005) up to 1.21z (2010?). Then, I saw that some incompetents narcissistic arrogant modders were given power to the forum AND to the mod, to my astonishment and disgust. It's one of the reasons I didn't even bother to download THEIR trashy mod (I couldn't believe the shits they've done), I didn't played "HU" for like 2-3 years, only came back now after I saw people finally acknowledging there were things to fix (I laughed) and that an "important" modder left.

Asteroth wrote:
"See you people allways lose my point with 1.21z
1 we wouldn't have lost 3/4 of are community
2 there really wasn't anything to be fixed ex.. small fixs and nerfs

Agreed. And yes, how do the remaining players explain there're so few now ?
You know what, people ? It's your fault. You let some scums take over the mod and let them trash it. You know, like blue and purerage. Both are openly rude persons, and cannot back-up their STUPID views with arguments, it's only "because I want it that way, period", even when they're proven wrong and full of fallacies. They don't give a shit about HU and players, they're egotistic hypocrits who think only about their fantasies, period. As expected, HU has become a trashy dirty mod full of little bugs on maps, with stupid fixes and huge unbalances, ect. Those 2 modders have proven to be a HINDRANCE to the mod. Ok one apparently left...
And what did you do, people ? They should had been ripped out at the beginning, but no... You just let them insult and bash random people with no reason, as if it was normal... Worse, you talked to them as if they were respectable, ignored their double-standards, and gave them power to turn HU into garbage. YOU (most) people out there let this happen.

Keep going "further" if you wish, I post here one last time to explain why I don't give a shit about HU since ~2010 and why I didn't bother to make posts : IT'S JUST HELPLESS.
I don't take HU as seriously as before; never been a fan of exploits, but now I GLADELY let people SS maphack or whatever else, - I don't give a fuck -, I play this trashy mod just for fun. You can't expect people to play "right" when you realize what HU has become, when it is designed to be played in party while there are so few players. Almost everyone are rushing... There's also a lot of hypocrisy with some players "abusing" the Loader, playing multi chars AND blaming "harder" "cheaters" (I do use loader but I stfu about other people's way of playing)... Do whatever you want, keep "fixing" things more stupidly I don't care, but keep in mind many people don't bother to voice their opinion on the forum considering how helpless it is. Or corrupted. Wonder why so many people have left... Have fun.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:31 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
Quote:
like blue and purerage. Both are openly rude persons,


Quote:
STUPID views

Quote:
they're egotistic hypocrits

Quote:
YOU (most) people out there let this happen.


:mrgreen:

Image

Quote:
I play this trashy mod just for fun.


Maybe you should find a new way to pass the time if you hate your current one so much. Google how to stay on topic while you are at it.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:53 pm 

Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 7:36 am
Posts: 87
I disagree Tsume, Purerage and blue have done more for this mod than anyone other than Mancer. I am also truly sorry for your extra chromosome, but it is your problem not ours!


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:12 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 383
Location: Central America - Honduras - S.P.S.
I believe that removing Bypass would make this skill unused again, the damage is just ok, there a simplier way to fix the OPness of this skill related to the fast kill again bosses. Give it a cooldown timer or slow cast rate. So pally dont stand there far from trouble spamming highspeed FOH and raping the shit out of the boss.

0.5 delay is fine for me.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:23 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:14 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Connecticut, USA
Let me speak on behalf of a HU noob who has no experience in these prior endeavors.

Coming from Vanilla D2, which I played and loved for many years (obviously), this mod is an absolute blast. D3 was such an incredible disappointment and HU seems to be what the hardcore D2 fan in me was truly looking for when I was anticipating the release of D3 so badly.

Now keep in mind, when I first started this mod, I had no gear to help me out, no BO barb or anything like that. I thought that just getting through normal difficulty was near impossible. Stuff I used to walk thru in Vanilla D2 was now 1-hitting me and I wasn't even nearly prepared enough for it.

But I noticed several really cool things... the first being how helpful the community was. People were just throwing out items that I'd never even seen before with amazing mods without even thinking twice. The second thing, is just how viable MOST of the builds in this game really are. Every time I make a new character I literally have hundreds of possibilities due to the fact that nearly any skill in the game has a way of being useful and powerful in it's own way. When's the last time you could say that on Vanilla D2? (Never)

One thing I will comment on, is that the melee damage certainly appears to be a bit low. I understand casters need to be very powerful, but to me it's less about casters needing to be nerfed and more about physical damage needing a little bit of a boost. I just want to be able to kill bosses. I don't need to destroy them... I don't need it to be an easy fight... but I'd rather at least be able to attack and do some damage on say a throw barb than be the BO bitch that is running around casting bone prisons to try and tank. Very frustrating to say the least.

Overall I'd say the mod is an absolute blast, pays homage to D2 whilst in itself making sure to still feel like a different game. If you really don't like it... go back to Vanilla..?


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:04 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 1672
JKing, the last couple patches have actually been directed at buffing melee and we've made great progress. You can find lots of rage threads about it, much bloodier than this one lol

_________________
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Cowards die in shame, I ain't afraid to lose a char, it's not like it's important. :lol:


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:27 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 1004
Call me a retard but what is demon bypass?

Also I'm curious, does the -20 magic pierce on sanctuary and demon/undead bonus work with FoH? If so, is that the best aura to use for FoH, or do people use meditation for the FCR? Or does Conc add damage to it? I want to know what is the best aura for this.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:16 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:06 am
Posts: 1206
Demon bypass means FoH damages all demons as if they have zero magic res and zero magic absorb. Magic pierce does not increase this further. So basically use w/e aura u want.

_________________
LockDown wrote:
Go outside.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:33 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
Ideally you want at least 1 in every aura, then you can adapt/enhance any party setup you may encounter.

Conviction: great one to run in areas with mobs who also use conviction (the horadrim thingies in hell) to cancel their convic and lower everythings AR. This will be your go to aura if your groups major damage sources are elemental (be it for trash clearing or boss killing). You will likely be using an act 3 merc for solo trash killing so again, this is your main aura for that.

Fanat: Less used on this build, but always a great one if you are in a melee focused group or running with a bowzon.

Concentration: again, less used but it can provide a sygnificant damage boost to your hammers (hammers already maxed as a synergy to FoH). Nice one to run for any summoners, they already have fana from faith. Handy for killing undead with hammers (hammers use the same bypass mechanics as FoH, only for undead. So does Holy bolt, though holy bolt wont reset the heal timer, so you need to pop FoH every 15 sec or so)

Resist X: Any bosses that focus on a single element or who have nasty spike damage from a single element (anya dragon blizzard etc.)

Salvation: Your counter to the lower resist curse. Most used in places like WSK3+ > castle of dest.

Prayer: Meh, if you maxed this then you may aswell gain the benefits of it via medi on equip, doubling the heal per tic isn't gonna save you from the stuff that can actually kill you (high damage spikes etc.), so run a resist aura or offensive aura to kill stuff quicker instead.

Thorns: you'll only maybe use this in 2-3 situations. 1 being vs hell juggernaught V2, another being hell for duoing hell andy with IG + amp + thorns. It's almost completely useless using this with a player as the source of returned damage. You want to be using a summon for the 8x damage they recieve being boosted then reflected by.

Sanctuary: If solo and fighting something like tobial/sszak (non demon/undead) then the 20% magic pierce will help. You should have a backup gearset focusing on magic pierce for non undead/demon bosses.
In those situations, it may be better to just run a defensive aura or buff the party via convic/fana.

Vigor/Redemp/etc.: Vigor is great and I used to run it often for farming on my heal/foh pally. The best thing about it is it increases the cast frequency of your merc by cutting down the time they spend walking from 1 spot to another for no reason. Redemp completely shuts down resurections and corpse expolsions. Flash it often unless running with a CE based skelemancer.


Since your gear is focused on + skills, all auras will be a fairly decent level. Even without lots of + skills though, the versatility of having any and all auras to choose from is a huge advantage. I've never built any paladin here without 1 in all of them.

The exception is meditation since its thrown all over the place on equipment and its better to have medi on equip + run a second aura. Don't add any points to this skill, it's 100% a waste of a skillpoint and not worth it. USe that point for conversion to convert the healers in act 3.
You can really just add 1 to all pally skills and still perform reasonably well. Tele+merc and convic completely rapes everything and you can convert the stuff thats still immune after convic or just slaughter them with 1 pt zeal and gris caddy.
I had a venger pally (when it was still just a 1 pt attack crapfest). That turned out completely worthless but it ended up just being an auratotem with a pimp merc. That pally + 2 friends on a summy nec and druid ended up as the first guardians that ladder. It's almost impossible to make a useless paladin.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 1004
That's pretty helpful, thank you. Does FCR not matter much on an foh pally?


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:14 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:34 am
Posts: 353
you'll want 125 fcr on a foh thats last breakpoint.

_________________
'may the force be with you' - Yoda??


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:42 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Hell
I would leave this build alone after playing one to hell... Ya there good on boss's and it should be that way... Sick of all the psn if you want to nerf something work on that cuz thats still really op..

_________________
P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 1004
Kannli wrote:
you'll want 125 fcr on a foh thats last breakpoint.


It says there's a BP at 232, is that not worth trying to get? If you crafted a couple high roll fcr items it may be doable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:52 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:33 pm
Posts: 1175
Location: Knoxville, TN
Ensley03 wrote:
Kannli wrote:
you'll want 125 fcr on a foh thats last breakpoint.


It says there's a BP at 232, is that not worth trying to get? If you crafted a couple high roll fcr items it may be doable.


I hit this breakpoint when I was doing Hammer Foh Healer... For FOH you'll run out of mana even faster! For hammers it was nice.

_________________
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Ze dictatorship hast simply changed hands ya?
Let us crunch ze numbers


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:40 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Hell
Have any of you guys played foher before the bypass was added to it ?.
The only place that foh shined was in Cleff and Lake of the dead or other undead areas..The idea to nerf this build will just push psn more over the top..And even at that psn is still dropping boss's 5 times as fast then Foh..I understand that the pallys have tuns of safty everywhere but keep in mind if your going pure foher your attack is single target all the time.. Psn javs shoot there poons and everything in its path is toast same with Rabies as it spreads and Psn nova with its psn ring..

I think we need to think this one through before we kill another build.. 8-)

_________________
P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:58 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:01 pm
Posts: 1383
Quote:
I think we need to think this one through before we kill another build.. 8-)


I believe this is the common consensus. I don't really see FoH being nerfed much if at all at this point.

_________________
The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: FoH
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:51 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:33 pm
Posts: 1175
Location: Knoxville, TN
I played FoH before it had bypass. It was good then because it's safe. It's good now because it's safe. I don't see a big problem with it.

_________________
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Ze dictatorship hast simply changed hands ya?
Let us crunch ze numbers


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron