Login | Register


All times are UTC - 5 hours


It is currently Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:04 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:10 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 523
This patch has some good points and many bad ones. Things I would like to see. To me at least much of our server issues this patch stem from the load caused by the hi-res plug.
PureRage-DoD wrote:
The game is coded to not draw the floors/walls outside of 800*600. The plugin hujacks that code and and forces it to draw further. The further you draw, the more CPU you need. The plugin is a "first" plugin and as the author says, it could be faster. He is working on redoing it so it will run as smooth as it possibly can. The lower resolution is ok for me. I struggle with the highest one myself but even the smaller one is a decent size (especially windowed).


1)Remove the hi-res and revert all monster ai to previous values. As is the AI values for monster seems to be more appropriate for more like 1500 by 968 (or something like that). Playing in my max screen res (1024x768 or I lag heavily) still get pelted from off screen by nearly all ranged monsters. The other ill effect is increased desynching, as in striking at a monster who suddenly appears a full screen away while you're running after it while name locked, or getting swatted by a monster you never saw. The hi-res has contributed to excessive lag in some areas.

2)Revert feral rage as is it blows. Only one build will have any value from it, a fury mutt since it's a synergy for them any way.

3)Re-think the decoy nerf, too big an adjustment made in one fell swoop. 3 separate nerf on one skill at the same time. As is now it barely survives vs normal fallen LOL.

4)Adjust ranged merc ai (if we keep hi-res) they got left alone with hi-res implementation and suck ass now.

5) those blizzing bitches in act3 could use a slight nerf to their range. Able to throw snowballs at you from 1/2 screen outside your view.

6)Getting blizzed/attacked through/under walls 1/2 screen away. Like the liches in wsk2 casting blizz from the other side of walls while you can't see them. Clearing tundra and getting stabbed by death maulers (or w/e they called) from across a chasm you can't shoot across.

_________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:11 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:01 pm
Posts: 1378
1) i would have a hard time going back to playing 800x600. At least keep 1024x768 (the higher one is a lil small for my eyeballs...and i have good vision)

2) Feral still gives a good speed boost to other wolf/bear builds. Those other builds should have a bitch of a time getting lifeleech since the most of their damage is coming from elemental damage.

3) haven't gotten to really late game, but up to act3 NM it has been fine for me. you have it as a 1pt wonder or have you spent skills in it? what about any of its synergies? I am just sitting close to maxed and no large investment in synergies yet...that is about all that i have left to do skillwise on that character.

4) to clarify, they often won't engage when about 1/2 screen away on 1024x768...this does blow. I had hoped that mentioning before the final patch could have resulted in a fix, but there were a lot of things flying around at the last minute.

5) i don't mind the cast range in open areas like this...i know it is rough for the low res users though...dunno

6) could we make some of these skills require line of site, or does the AI take that kind of thing into account?

_________________
The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:48 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 1670
The only thing that truly scares me (regarding the new ai target acquisition) is in hell a3 Zakarum place on the way to Council. Champ/uni seraphs + champ/uni healers.. I've ran into 3 or 4 clumps of them in one spot, and other groups on the other sides of walls in multiple spots. Especially since the blizz radius has been tightened, its scary as fuck, and a bit OP.

BUT, as tedious and annoying as it is, I enjoy the added difficulty ^^

_________________
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Cowards die in shame, I ain't afraid to lose a char, it's not like it's important. :lol:


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:32 am
Posts: 75
I would propose that we should attenuade the volume of the backround music. In my opinion its far to loud so I can't hear the voices especially the taunt voices of the monsters. Until now I couldn't find out how to decrease the music volume by myself. Some ideas???


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:04 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
Esc-> Options -> Sound options then sound/music scroll bars?


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:19 pm
Posts: 616
Location: Reno NV
Only time I even notice the extra enemy range from the new res is when I'm playing melee. Luckily they're still kinda shitty so.

I've had little to no problems with the new decoy. It has tanked great on bosses&trash, and I haven't even maxed it. The only thing I don't like is the longer cooldown, makes decoy pretty shit versus trash when you can't recast it as often. I'd suggest keeping the life/tank nerfs and restoring the old cooldown time.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:41 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:32 am
Posts: 75
Steel wrote:
Esc-> Options -> Sound options then sound/music scroll bars?


I already have the lowest settings in the music bar but nevertheless its(the music in comp. to the sound) a bit too heavy in my opinion. I was only a tentative suggestion.

Edit: Might be that my Teufel Sound system has some decoding problems with diablo 2. I will check it. Honestly I was to niggard to buy a decoder and my sound driver(Sound Max) didnt match with my Center sometimes (Sound Max has no good decoding function). Maybe thats the reason.... :?

Unfortunately I never found a good sound driver on the internet, so sometimes I get this error. :(


Last edited by guest 1 on Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 523
drrod wrote:
Only time I even notice the extra enemy range from the new res is when I'm playing melee. Luckily they're still kinda shitty so.
My main char atm is melee. I know at General the healers around him were a pain running untwinked. Seems like hell trav was packed with them, and a bitch to kill them as they hit you from off screen before you can see them. Perhaps setting their range to 30 from the current 45 would help. IDK.

drrod wrote:
I've had little to no problems with the new decoy. It has tanked great on bosses&trash, and I haven't even maxed it. The only thing I don't like is the longer cooldown, makes decoy pretty shit versus trash when you can't recast it as often. I'd suggest keeping the life/tank nerfs and restoring the old cooldown time.
Cooldown alone would be a huge help alone. Since they had the douple dip removed, when running solo and untwinked the suck. To me turn cooldown down to 7 sec and set them to 100% life +3-4% with double dip removed and would be better.

slappyNuts wrote:
The only thing that truly scares me (regarding the new ai target acquisition) is in hell a3 Zakarum place on the way to Council. Champ/uni seraphs + champ/uni healers.. I've ran into 3 or 4 clumps of them in one spot, and other groups on the other sides of walls in multiple spots. Especially since the blizz radius has been tightened, its scary as fuck, and a bit OP.
This is one area I'm talking about as well, along with Durance can be a pain.

kramuti wrote:
1) i would have a hard time going back to playing 800x600. At least keep 1024x768 (the higher one is a lil small for my eyeballs...and i have good vision)

2) Feral still gives a good speed boost to other wolf/bear builds. Those other builds should have a bitch of a time getting lifeleech since the most of their damage is coming from elemental damage.
1)I do agree with that but think the AI is a touch off, could be a touch lower.
2)I disagree though. My biter does decent phys dmg (depending on weap equipped) and like a fury mutt is in the bosses face all the time. I simply feel, the loss of leech from feral hurts their gear choices thru nm. By hell leech is already down a bit. Some chars like pally get a nice passive bonus from BA with soft points, seems a bad move to take a useful skill on droods and make it viable for only 1 build type or sacrifice else somewhere to max it.

_________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:02 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:01 pm
Posts: 1378
So are you saying that it just not feasible to stack enough damage mitigation on fireclaw/frostbiters, or that your preference of split damage (cold+phys) just really pigeonholes you into a narrow gear window? The latter doesn't really bother me honestly, though maybe adding in a few new gear options should be considered. I have only made a fireclaw druid in LoD, and I went with the same philosophy as what you are trying to use...but most of those design philosophies fail miserably here (it was quite good there).

The former I think was the end of the discussion just before the patch iirc. Have you worked to this route at all, or just getting stuck on your best attempt to make your build work as you want to see it?

_________________
The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:37 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 523
kramuti wrote:
So are you saying that it just not feasible to stack enough damage mitigation on fireclaw/frostbiters, or that your preference of split damage (cold+phys) just really pigeonholes you into a narrow gear window? The latter doesn't really bother me honestly, though maybe adding in a few new gear options should be considered. I have only made a fireclaw druid in LoD, and I went with the same philosophy as what you are trying to use...but most of those design philosophies fail miserably here (it was quite good there).

The former I think was the end of the discussion just before the patch iirc. Have you worked to this route at all, or just getting stuck on your best attempt to make your build work as you want to see it?
Whats funny is even Kevin seems to say the feral rage nerf needs undone.
PureRage-DoD wrote:
5: Baerk adjusted some boss resistances and skill levels, ruined a couple of skills like feral rage. Reverted the plague jav nerf, doubled venoms damage (already the highest dps pois in the game) by giving it a self synergy to make assassins venom stronger, while forgetting to remove the charges of venom that synergise it on arachnids mesh.
I tend to agree here. As decoy, feral got destroyed. There was no "small adjustment" to test, it was "bam here you go, deal with it" type of thing. That I would have expected from Blue. When talking dmg mitigation, I'm finding you can't have enough MS diamonds by early hell (which I knew) nor enough %dr. I tend to not be as heavy into crafting on a first run through as perhaps I should be. But 4x MS dia hat, MS dia in corpsemourn, emerald craft ring and string were a small bump vs hell Duri. He could nearly 1 shot me with 6k life bo'd and 50k+ def, 80k with FA. Maxed HoW lasted all of 10 sec as he tends to target it when it wanders close. As to "your preference of split damage (cold+phys) just really pigeonholes you into a narrow gear window" I'm trying various weapons, to find what works for my style of play. My initial plan was to go more for high phys dmg, eg Tombreaver or EJ with Tyreals as my armor endgame as I tend to run with a necro in my group.

_________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:56 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:01 pm
Posts: 1378
Decoy was not destroyed. I wouldn't mind a reduction in cast delay. Otherwise it has been fine for me (and this is with no party buffs to it).

You know why the feral nerf was made though...there were like 15 pages about it. Feral also never gave all of the listed lifesteal. The thing that you are wanting is just to have leech given on soft points. Simply reverting is pretty dangerous. A new scale would need to be made.

How much lifesteal do you tend to carry on gear atm? What % is really needed to make fireclawers/frostbiters have more reasonable survivability? What skill level can you hit reasonably with only 1 point in it? This is all the kind of stuff that has to be fleshed out so that a really targeted change could be made.

_________________
The reader should not be discouraged if...he does not have the prerequisites to read the prerequisites. P. Halmos


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:57 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
I think it's quite agreed upon that decoy could use some cooldown reduction so I'll get that into the planned change log for 7 seconds. Concerning Feral Rage though...

The reason it was nerfed in the first place was because pure physical druids were managing leech lock (which means beating down without even using a single pot) against even the last few hell act bosses. A pure physical build is always going to make better use of a % of LL than a some melee caster like a frostbiter. The main problem with LL is that it's a form of flat damage reduction over time instead of per hit. This causes it's balance to be a slippery slope where half of a mildly OP amount is either not all that strong or even pathetic. I have nothing against adding a new synergy to Feral to specifically help the cold/fire SS guys.

It's just whatever buff Feral Rage does get can't be something that a pure physical SS can casually obtain with little sacrifice such as a simple buff to the skill progression or else we'll probably end up with a situation with pure physical leech locking too easily.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:54 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
Quote:
The reason it was nerfed in the first place was because pure physical druids were managing leech lock (which means beating down without even using a single pot) against even the last few hell act bosses.
mind pointing out who's build was actually leeching/tanking indefinately against the hell act bosses? Thats complete horse shit, leech is worthless in hell vs anything except trash and a few of the weaker sub bosses. Did you just make that up or???

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:02 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
No he didn't make that up. Feral added a ton of LL. You could easily hit past 50%+++ in gear with feral and with AMP you'll leech most any boss even Steel admitted he was able to leech Hell Dia through IM somewhere on these forums. I was the one who did the testing on a fury druid and pious backed the feral nerf. It was way too much LL and besides now it's a simple 1hit charge up verse before it required multiple hits which I didn't use fully charged feral and still leeched.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:21 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
What was done to ease it though? A barb has lots of def buffs, free soft level PDR/MDR, free resists and thats all at the same time.

If a druid want's something near the def of a barb, he has to use HoW and suffer a massive life drop that the barb dont. + the barb don't have to waste 20% of his time recasting his main lifebuff (melee druids oak is unreliable as it's always close to the boss).

15 drain
steal divisor = 4

75% lifesteal

18.75 after hell divisor
2.812 after drain effectiveness



Hell Diab = 75% DR +45%DR from boss hat
120%total
60% amp from a nec
=60% resistance

40k Attack damage, = 16k after pierced resistances

450 damage stolen per hit

60% block on boss
3fpa = 8 attacks per sec.

ss druid attack skills run the hit check twice and a miss always overwrites a hit, so you have twice the chance to miss so
Block + def drops that to around 2 hits per second (900 recovered per sec) as long as the boss dont move.

so it takes about 20 seconds of non stop attacking on a stationary boss while taking 0 damage to fully fill your bulb.
Now, think about how long it takes hell diab to clear half the bulb of a ss druid with LR/IM/Amp on you.

Show me a SS druid on the realm in 1.21z that didn't need to juv on a hell act boss. Lifeleech was a SS druids main line of defense
but it was dropped from lvl+11 to 1 per hard point. Thats like a 60% drop in their main lifeline.
Obviously it didn't work, how many successful melee druids are there in hell atm?

All of the above is also assuming you have a necro and they are running amp (over the more usual choice of lr/decrepify switching for the rabies druid who outclasses it's melee counterpart by 50* due to much higher oak, much safer, and much more constant damage)

Theres already lots of builds who don't need a specific curse from 1 other char to be viable, why should melee be any diff? They need this stuff to deal their damage unlike the ranged builds who can attack from a safe distance, or do you not agree with that?

In all honesty, I'd rather a melee build just didn't attack on a boss and saved the juvs for later (unless its a pure tank build who don't really take any damage at all but don't deal much damage either). You always end up with the melee "DPS" running out of pots and breaking from the boss leaving the ranged builds with no tank because he used all his removing | | from the bosses life. They could have just went 0 damage, huge defensive, used no pots and held the boss still for the cannons at the back...

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:09 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
What you're mainly emphasizing is the breaking point into the difference of purpose in each class. Allowing melee being already the most dominant defensive character in the game to attain as high offensive as a caster/ele char is purely idiotic.

It makes no sense. They have way more defensive mods and high life. My fury druid rapes on the realm atm. I can slam Hell Gen easily. I killed Hell Andy pretty ez as well and I leeched fine as long as I was hitting her.

My tests were conduced before Dias res was buffed/im buffed. You had nerfed IM and Pious had buffed it even stronger again.

I don't know how accurate your numbers are either. I don't agree with them. I've seen my fury druid leech through a shit load of bosses excluding Dia/Meph etc. He leeches like crazy and his LL isn't that amazing so I don't understand your point.

Just imagine if we gave sorcs/fire druids and even psn chars the same defensive mods as melee... would that make any sense? No so what are you trying to accomplish? Melee should be required to kill with a nec because it's already the most powerful defensive character in the game.

I don't quite think you understand how difficult it is to play a fire druid vs bosses with no defensive mods on HC. I am HEAVILY reliant on juv and timing. I've had so many close close death encounters. I HAVE no defensive mods AT ALL except a little DR. I take A TON of damage in close range.

I hate the 1.21z comparison because everyone knew melee raped and were Op then.
From what I've personally seen/heard melee are currently fine. I know Jays WW barb is pretty beastly on SC and I've seen Zacs HC sin rape pretty good w/ amp and I've had experience with my fury druid which cleared Tundra with ben insanely fast.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:42 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
what defensive skills does a fury druid have besides oak?

You can get more leech with 2 rings than you can for a 20 skill point investment... 20% lifesteal for 20 hard points isn't a great return.
Why shouldn't fclaws/bite druids get some leech from their sygnificantly lower phys damage? I don't have a problem with hard point progression. I do have a problem with it starting at 1% on the first level. Why not 9%+1% per hard point? Useful as a 1 pointer, but much better when maxed.

It was 11 + 1 per soft point before, You don't think switching it to hard points was enough? No lets destroy the skill for anyone who don't have 20 points spare (still terrible return) and do away with skills being useful as a 1 pointer.

Quote:
I don't quite think you understand how difficult it is to play a fire druid vs bosses with no defensive mods on HC. I am HEAVILY reliant on juv and timing

and you deal how much more damage than a melee druid?

Quote:
I hate the 1.21z comparison because everyone knew melee raped and were Op then.

yet you didn't see any fury druids tanking indefinately due to too much leech...

Quote:
I can slam Hell Gen easily

who can't? viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4796
All you need is 1 convert and you got a tank for the whole fight.
Also, at what level?

How did he do against diab/meph?

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:47 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
One correction... the skill description was wrong for feral rage. It actually gained 1% leech per 2 soft levels for top end leech. Also it should be noted that there were not enough charge animation variations for the over 20+ charge level possibilities. It should also be noted that a lvl 40 Feral rage actually took 21 hits to fully charge up back when it was a soft progression (of course since the animation stopped changing long before the charge lvl 21 point any person without an extended stat screen to check for LL fluctuations wouldn't even be aware that their LL charge up wasn't even fully charged yet probably).


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:09 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
That has nothing to do with the fact that it the minimum was nerfed by almost 95%!!!!!!! at the first level and now you need 12 hard points to get the same return as you did with it 1 pointed and without any + skill gear. 1 pointed before it would have yielded around 15% using melee gear by char level 70 with skills from gear. Now it yields 1% with the same gear...

I don't have a problem with the maximum, my issue is that the minimum on the melee druid's best line of defense was destroyed beyond all recognition.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:04 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
You're not listening to anything I"m saying at all. Every melee has much more defensive gear than any caster, period... with the new buffs to DR my fury druid has around 20/24/5 49% dr. What kind of caster is going to get 49% dr? You're reasoning is not accurate based on my actual game play experience. I killed Hell Andy without anyone tanking easily. I was able to leech np with amp and only remember using juvs because of oak dying and what not. They have the most OP vine in the game for trash so there is no need even for leech with carrion. It's like auto-juv.

Meph/Dia/Baal phys res was buffed higher than what it was in 1.21z this was discussed previously already. We also discussed nerfing FERAL a long time ago. Where were you when discussions were being held and why didn't you speak up then? Pious is the one who first asserted it needed nerfed.

What you're also forgetting is that FuryDruid is realistically the most powerful single target DPS melee in the game. They leech exponentially better than most other melee despite the so called zeal bug.

Just walk around Hell with tomb reaver and a little leech... you can see it yourself.

Dia/Baal should not be doable by a melee anymore anyway.. Pious buffed IM enough to make sure it's granted you get raped if you get IMed.

The problem is.. now that melee are balanced.. what are they being compared to? OP psn builds and fire druids?

I don't understand the logical balance in thinking around here on some people. What is it that is desired? More over powered melee rapage like 1.21z? And if anyone is comparing Melee to OP psn builds then you have some issues.

Again all discussions held previously far in depth.

On HC bens smiter actually struggled a bit with Hell Samhain but it looked doable. He got him to half hp. It was probably more balanced than anything. I actually died on my first high char because the battle was that much more intense.

Previously we did it with a rabies psn druid and it was easy as hell so again I ask what is melee being compared to.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:28 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 523
Baerk wrote:
One correction... the skill description was wrong for feral rage. It actually gained 1% leech per 2 soft levels for top end leech. Also it should be noted that there were not enough charge animation variations for the over 20+ charge level possibilities. It should also be noted that a lvl 40 Feral rage actually took 21 hits to fully charge up back when it was a soft progression (of course since the animation stopped changing long before the charge lvl 21 point any person without an extended stat screen to check for LL fluctuations wouldn't even be aware that their LL charge up wasn't even fully charged yet probably).
While that may be true, most stopped after 3-4 hits just to add some additional leech. Having the ability to one point a skill and get some benefit was far better than we have now. Shit, for this patch BA gets a soft pointed leech that blasts anything a druid gets, which btw didn't exist prior to this patch. I don't recall many calling for that change when patch was being worked out. As I said when we discussed this before the reset, a fury druid would max feral anyway as it's a synergy for fury so for them it's of small consequence.

_________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:23 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
Lee wrote:
You're not listening to anything I"m saying at all. Every melee has much more defensive gear than any caster, period...


Why are you talking about casters? This is a discussion on a melee skill. Compare it to blessed aim instead or something thats actually related to the subject.

Quote:
I killed Hell Andy without anyone tanking easily.

Good for you, so did my windy

Quote:
I was able to leech np with amp and only remember using juvs because of oak dying and what not.

Awesome! an extra 0.375% leech (after penaltys in hell) by giving it 10% at hard level 1 is hardly game breaking...

Quote:
They have the most OP vine in the game for trash so there is no need even for leech with carrion. It's like auto-juv.

Trash mobs... because thats what you need to be prepared for?

Quote:
Meph/Dia/Baal phys res was buffed higher than what it was in 1.21z this was discussed previously already.

and how exactly does that help the situation? Not only was feral murdered, phys res was increased for that added kick in the balls...

Quote:
We also discussed nerfing FERAL a long time ago. Where were you when discussions were being held and why didn't you speak up then?

I think you need to slow your brain for a min and remember who it was who kick started this patch and layed down the base for what you have. If that hadn't happened you might still be waiting for blue's patch.
To answer your question, I was busy with my own mod (as I told you I only had a short amount of time to work on this) and wasn't spending weeks watching over what was being done.

Quote:
What you're also forgetting is that FuryDruid is realistically the most powerful single target DPS melee in the game. They leech exponentially better than most other melee despite the so called zeal bug.

nobody is talking about a fury wolf
i'll say it again...
The problem I have is that the minimum was MURDERED. What it achieved was making all melee druids into cookie cutters. I don't even have a problem with the 20% max. For all I care, you could change it to 1% leech per 2 hard points, as long as its got decent functionality in the low levels too.

Quote:
Just walk around Hell with tomb reaver and a little leech... you can see it yourself.

Trash mobs again.

Quote:
Dia/Baal should not be doable by a melee anymore anyway.. Pious buffed IM enough to make sure it's granted you get raped if you get IMed.

Great! Everyone already builds mostly casters/ranged anyway, why change that?

Quote:
The problem is.. now that melee are balanced.. what are they being compared to? OP psn builds and fire druids?

You think melee are balanced compared to casters? They are not only in more direct danger, they are also reliant on another char to deal damage and are can be replaced by a decent recastable.

Quote:
I don't understand the logical balance in thinking around here on some people.

Well said

Quote:
What is it that is desired? More over powered melee rapage like 1.21z? And if anyone is comparing Melee to OP psn builds then you have some issues.

Not gonna happen with current CB values being around half of what they were before.
I played a melee pally in 1.21z and can tell you that their melee damage was vastly outclassed by pretty much everything (see barbs with eni + a1 merc). I made a melee pally and a healer pally that season. The healer could clear trash insanely fast and used to solo run azmo and belial. I never solo'd azmo and belial on my melee pally.
The only thing that was out of whack was crushing blow. Remember they have to contend with huge resistances (compared to other builds) more incoming damage AND enemy def + block...
Anyway, I digress, My problem is with feral rage being in need of a buff in the early levels, not with melee in general.

Quote:
On HC bens smiter actually struggled a bit with Hell Samhain but it looked doable. He got him to half hp. It was probably more balanced than anything. I actually died on my first high char because the battle was that much more intense.

Were not talking about smite, were talking about feral rage

Quote:
Previously we did it with a rabies psn druid and it was easy as hell so again I ask what is melee being compared to.

Whatever you are comparing it too. I was talking about 1 skill to begin with...

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:33 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
lol ok I went off topic that was my fault.

The thing I don't understand is that it's 1% per hard pt atm now I believe... why wouldn't a Fury druid max feral anyway? What else is he going to max? It's a syn to Fury also.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:45 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
exactly, so give it the same max as now (fury already maxes it) but start it off at 10% so it's usefull as a 1 pointer for the builds who already struggle to leech. Ele melee's have it bad survivability wise, they cause tons of counters and do less phys damage than other melees so are stuck with no way to deal their damage effectivelly. They are still way below a phys melee survivability wise cos they need semi caster gear. They are also in more danger than a fstormer/pois build cos they cause lots of counters at point blank range.

I'm not worried about maul/fury builds effectiveness, the ele melee's took a real bad hit from that nerf cos they don't have the points to spare, fury/maul didn't really notice it. I'm fine with the max of 20%, the minimum is absolutely attrocious for a hard point gains bonus though.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:54 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
Ah I c so make it 10% min and then 1% per 2 hard pts is what u were saying? I guess there isn't anything wrong with that in that case.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:56 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
Are there any fire claw/frost biter builds even maxing feral rage or are they just simply too pressed for points? The idea that was floating around in my head was to give feral rage a synergy from fire claw/frost bite of 1% per two hard levels. Sounded like a good way to give a little extra leech bonus to the elemental melees without blatantly assisting the pure physical builds to me.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
Yeah sounds like a good change in my opinion except for one thing. I hardly think a little leech is going to make them any more or less effective due to low physical damage and w/o amp I doubt they'd leech much or anything vs trash even maybe I'm wrong though Kevin would know better.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:30 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
my old fbiter was reliant on feral to stand for longer than a sec against bosses. The leech wasn't much, it took the edge off the counters and nothing more.

Those builds really don't have the points to spare, they already walk on a knife edge balancing damage and survivability.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Next patch suggestions
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 977
havent played in since last patch but my 95 zon with 20/20 decoy valk, decoy got blasted by most everything under 1-2 sec trash mobs included. with self BO. cool down lowered is good, but maybe up the%life values a bit to original.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: