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 Post subject: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:19 pm
Posts: 621
Location: Reno NV
Are garbage. I'm not sure if they forgot to get buffed during the last patch but some are in some seriously shitty shape. I've just been using daggers after I hit 88 because all the real 1H unique weapons are so sub par.

Iron Ward, Death Cleaver, and Schaeffers are gimped to hell. Out of those three endgame 1h weapons not a one has any DS. At least give them some sockets, anything really. The endgame daggers have better melee mods than the previously mentioned and they always come eth+indestructible.

For some reason Blue decided to nerf Schaeffers which was already pretty lame for being the highest damage 1H unique melee weapon. It lost 16% IAS, 100 life, and the real kick in the balls its ED% per level. The ED got replaced with flat max damage per level, which is a terrible mod for a weapon base that is based around good minimum damage. I found an eth one but it's not even worth the Zod. Eth rare zerk here I come(soon as I find one anyway.)!


Last edited by drrod on Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:19 pm
Posts: 621
Location: Reno NV
What do you think, too much? Bolded is buffed or new mods, underlined is removed.

Ironward
Caduceus
One-Handed Scepter (Range 2)
Damage: 360-468
Required Level: 93
Required Strength: 152
Durability: 140
Speed: [-20]
+5 to Paladin Skill Levels
+500% Enhanced Damage
+100% Enhanced Defense
+66% Increased Attack Speed
Adds 200 Damage
3-4% Crushing Blow
+20 to Dexterity
200% Bonus to Attack Rating
Damage Reduced by 3-4%
-20% Requirements
-15% Enemy Magic Resistance
Socketed (2)
Damage Reduced by 50
+30 to Vitality


Death Cleaver
Berserker Axe
One-Handed Axe (Range 3)
Damage: (247-270) - (451-492)
Required Level: 92
Required Strength: 190
Durability: 62
Speed: [0]
+3 to All Skills
+450-500% Enhanced Damage
+75% Increased Attack Speed
-25% Target Defense
+3% Crushing Blow
12-18% Life Stolen per Hit
+20% Increased Chance of Blocking
+666 to Attack Rating
Prevent Monster Heal
Socketed (2-3)
Ignore Target's Defense
66% Chance of Open Wounds

Schaefer's Hammer
Legendary Mallet
One-Handed Hammer (Range 2)
Damage: 402-560
Required Level: 90
Required Strength: 189
Required Dexterity: 0
Durability: 110
Speed: [15]
+300 to Life
+(270-300) to Attack Rating (Based on Character Level)
4% Chance of Crushing Blow
+90% Increased Attack Speed
+(250)% Enhanced Damage (Based on Character Level)(whatever value caps it around 250% at lv100)
+350-400% Enhanced Damage
+6 to Light Radius
25% Chance of Deadly Strike
-15% Requirements
10% Mana Stolen per Hit
25% Chance to Cast Level 33 Blessed Hammer when Attacking
+5-7 to Blessed Hammer (Paladin Only)
Adds 1-1000 Lightning Damage
+1 to Energy Shield (OSKILL)
+(142-150) Max Damage (Based on Character Level)
30% Faster Cast Rate


Last edited by drrod on Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:24 pm 
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I don't really see the need for then -mag res just curious why you added it. Other than that the other changes look nice to me. I never really understood the shaefer's I like those changes the most.

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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:19 pm
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Location: Reno NV
Was thinking for maybe a sanctuary build. It was either that or lit/cold/fire pierce on it for Vengeance. Here's a second variation of Ironward:

Ironward
Caduceus
One-Handed Scepter (Range 2)
Damage: 360-468
Required Level: 93
Required Strength: 152
Durability: 140
Speed: [-20]
+5 to Paladin Skill Levels
+500% Enhanced Damage
+66% Increased Attack Speed
Adds 200 Damage
3-4% Crushing Blow
200% Bonus to Attack Rating
Damage Reduced by 3-4%
-20% Requirements
-12-16% Enemy Magic Resistance
-20-25% Enemy Fire Resistance
-20-25% Enemy Lightning Resistance
-20-25% Enemy Cold Resistance
Socketed (2)
Damage Reduced by 50
+30 to Vitality
+100% Enhanced Defense
+20 to Dexterity

Hmm does socketed count as a mod slot?


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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:13 pm 
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socket counts as a mod slot yeh but you can combine the pierce all into 1 property

I like those and fully agree that 1 hand melee weaps are completely terrible if you want to deal meaningfull phys damage.

+1 mace mastery would be nice on iron ward too IMO (theres still space if ele + mag pierce is combined on it)

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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:25 am 
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I knew I forgot to add DS to all the weps :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:57 pm 
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What are you using as a benchmark to compare those numbers? Two handed weapons? Crafts? You may want to check the math before tossing in the overpowered values.

Ironward
My version was as follows:
+5 to Paladin Skill Levels
+500% Enhanced Damage
+66% Increased Attack Speed
Adds 60-120 Damage
200% Bonus to Attack Rating
Damage Reduced by 50
+50% Faster Cast Rate
-10-20% to Enemy Magic Resistance
-10-20% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-10-20% to Enemy Cold Resistance
-10-20% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
Level 15 Prayer Aura when Equipped

A caddy has a low base damage, so any pure melee character wouldn't want it in favor of other higher base damage weapons. It is however very fast, which makes it great for elemental melee paladins (holy fire, holy shock, etc) which is why the -resists were added. Dunno why they were taken off.

As for adding +200 damage, I believe you need to add a range such as 100-200 dmg, which will add +100 to the min base dmg and +200 to the max. If you did +200 to both min and max, you would have a weapon doing 500-548 dmg. That is roughly comparable to a Caddy with 900% Enhanced Damage. Not sure if you want that sort of unique around as it would make crafts, rares, etc pretty useless.

Death Cleaver
My version previously had 450-500% ED on it, not sure why that was reduced, but I think it was a bad call. With a 3rd socket, you can max it at 680% ED which will put your wpn dmg at 350-640. When comparing it to other options and factoring the unique bonuses, I felt this was too high (obviously) which is why I set it to a max of 324-590.

Schaefer's
I don't think there is a general +ED/lvl mod, you have to do it for +max and +min, so that is going to occupy 2 slots. Also make sure it plays well with normal %ED - I tried to do a similar thing with Messerchmidt's Reaver and it got screwed up which is why that axe had such horrible dmg in ver 1.3. If you get it working properly though, it should make a decent adjustment. You will change its max output from 330-590 to a more level 450-600, although that assumes you can find a perfect 400% one now that you have variability in the %ED whereas I had it always fixed at 400%. Granted your mass deadly strike boost should change that, but I thought you guys added all sorts of deadly strike back in making it once again trivial to hit 100% DS?

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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:55 pm 
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IE. 1handers are good for roleplaying in a2 nm but not further. I'm willing to update, and test by myself, these before release if any list is going to happen.

I can accept Blue's post correct if it was the baldur's gate or something when you have to fight 5-6 enemies at once, or planescape torment (hail to the last bost who is samhain here).... but what the hell, who cares :P


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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:32 am 
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Quote:
but I thought you guys added all sorts of deadly strike back in making it once again trivial to hit 100% DS?


You would think so if you hadn't payed any attention to what was changed. Adding 25-30%DS to a few weapons don't make it easy to hit 100%. you can't equip 3 weapons remember. Still not sure why you are discussing balance about a mod you "had no problem turning your back on" with "the pack of fools" as you called em.

The point drrod is making is, 1 hand phys zealers have 0 options (you gave all the item options to ele zealers/casters).
He could go 2 handed sure. Thats like an attack on a druid that removes lycan's hp% while its being used...

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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:56 am 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
You would think so if you hadn't payed any attention to what was changed.

I haven't paid any attention to what has changed.

In which case, why add a shit ton of deadly strike to schaeffers and not Death Cleaver? 25% DS adds a LOT of damage if it is a rare mod still.

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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:58 am 
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because death cleaver has 3 open sockets, +3 all skills PMH and 15%avg lifesteal???

PMH makes a huge difference to your kill speed as a 1 hand melee in hell btw. Not having to contend with monster regen is a huge advantage over other weapons (see darkness' blades).

Also, 25% of a zealers damage isn't a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:19 pm 
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Zealer with 190str and 500% ED from Fanat (can't remember what lvl that would be) with a 4 frame zeal would be doing:

Death Cleaver: 4606-8394 base, or about 28.8k -52.4k DPS
Schaefers: 7650-10200 base, or about 47.8k-63.7k DPS with 25% deadly strike.

Gonna take a heck of a lot of regen to compensate for a 20k DPS difference. I dunno what you all have done with DS though, I am just pointing out the mathematical disparity between having 25% DS on one weapon and not on the other weapon when mathematically they are similar otherwise.

Math is done quickly and using "perfect" mods items and 4x 60% ED jewels in the Death cleaver. Perhaps you all boosted gems some way though that makes it balance out better. I didn't socket Schaefers, but I assume you would want some sort of IAS in there. Still - rough enough for the discussion.

*edit Math correction*

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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:49 pm 
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Except your math is completely wrong now that Zealers have access to passive Critical Strike. 25% Deadly Strike is no longer a 25% flat damage boost to a zealer.

But you're right Blue, they don't need stronger 1h weapons, even though they're one of the worst damage melee builds. What they really need is 7 stat points per level.

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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:34 pm 
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Abominae wrote:
Except your math is completely wrong now that Zealers have access to passive Critical Strike. 25% Deadly Strike is no longer a 25% flat damage boost to a zealer.

Go ahead and run the math again then and let me know how it works out for you.

Either way, as I said before you can do whatever you want. The post asked for feedback on the items and that is what I have done. Take it any way you want. If you want to throw flames and be a dick, that's your call. I came in to this thread with a civil tone.

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 Post subject: Re: One Handed unique melee weapons
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:15 pm 
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Not every weapon needs to be a carbon copy of another one. The extra +3 all skills (thats +3 to inc stamina, holy shield, blessed aim, zeal, fana, and all other auras)
-25%target def (last thing you wanna do on a boss is miss the first swing)
15% lifesteal (extra leech for sub bosses is always nice)
20% Increased chance of blocking (tasty for safety and opens up extra socket options)
+666AR (see -%enemy def)
+3 sockets (decisions decisions, 3 ber be nice or maybe 3 Uber dias on sanctuary build)

Schaefer's has more damage, but less of everything else. Items can have vastly diff mods and both be usefull to the same build. You dont HAVE to give death cleaver 25%DS just because another comparible weapon has it too.

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