Login | Register


All times are UTC - 5 hours


It is currently Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:13 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:50 am
Posts: 130
I do not like this change at all. Someone told me it was changed to become a dps spec... Mind Blast was probably the most important tool for a sin to have when it came to dealing with a group of monsters that have an edge on the sin.

DPS on a boss? Conversion doesn't work anyway. Nothing has changed on boss fights. So effectively this change was only made to dps trash mobs. I don't see the logical value in changing crucial utility which has been used by all sin specs. Critically unbalancing all these specs in favor of a new spec's gained utility to dps trash down.

Alot of CB/TK sorc would run a conv merc to deal with immunities. Teleport really helps utilize conversion when necessary from the sorc. Light Trappers have the very similar abilities, but use different utility.

The problem is and most importantly, a light trapper cannot control where its bolts/lightning goes after its been placed. Mind Blast was a good tool to push away or convert light immune monsters that are absorbing the traps. Convert being the most desired effect.

A CB/TK sorc can effectively control where its merc is going, to convert. Teleporting onto a light immune mob, will kill it or convert it. Mind blast worked very similar controlling the effective point of conversion.

One way I can adapt to this change is considering Enigma the must get item with a conversion merc.

But, I feel like it killed a crucial part of sin play.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:21 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
anything that can be converted can also have it's AI frozen by cloak of shadows. Use it and have your shadow use it too.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:26 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
The reason this change was originally done in the first place was because atleast one (and I think it was actually more than one person) was complaining about the conversion rate being far too high to conveniently kill most of the trash quickly.

Sure the change causes the skill to lose defensive aspects, but as purerage brought up anything vulnerable to the conversion could just as easily be shut down by cloak of shadows as well.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:46 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:50 am
Posts: 130
PureRage-DoD wrote:
anything that can be converted can also have it's AI frozen by cloak of shadows. Use it and have your shadow use it too.


I do use cloak, all the time. But, they're not anywhere near the same utility...

-cannot have 100% uptime while moving.
-Some mobs will still move. Especially ones connected to a unique mobs.
-Traps still can be misdirected to immunities, and or absorbed.
-Does not distract regular/named mobs as conversion would
-MB provided the sin with protection from swarming mobs

Some examples of scenarios in which MB was crucial pre nerf.

A DT sin and jumping into a pack of chargers for example without using MB to convert some.

Stygian running up to your traps or while trying to phenoix, they occasionally like to come into melee range. Its not that easy to just teleport onto these mobs and kill them with a merc. They're relatively ranged most of the time, and telling a merc to kill those isn't going to happen.

Cloak of shadows being down and a couple chargers rises behind you. You may stun one, but the other will kill you out right instead of redirecting the other charger.

Projectiles become more chaotic without MB to direct mobs projectiles
Utilizing the curses of mobs, which I did many times on my DT sin. Stygians provided me with AMP when they're available for example.


Sins have no real positioning control for output damage other than their speed and MB. A DT sin cannot teleport anywhere it wants to do damage, it requires the positioning of mobs. A Trap once deployed is only responsive to the position of the closest mob. Removing MB utility would effectively make the sin, especially the light sin, more positional and difficult to play.

My point is MB was probably my most used ability other than my damaging abilities. But, now it changes everything according to my playstyle. Much of my gear, all my methods of killing.

I do have a suggestion though, on how to change this so we're all happy here.

Would it be possible to have MB conversion rate lower by Hardpoints? So, 20 points could effectively remove Conversion entirely, while 1 Hardpoint retained the same conversion rate?


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:06 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
Normally various special aspects of a lot of skills are controlled by the calc fields. However, mind blast doesn't use the calc fields (which you could all sorts of stuff with) at all. It appears to be hard coded to use DM56 to calculate the conversion chance based on soft level only (DM56 being soft level based diminishing returns using parameters 5 and 6).

Given that diminishing returns hits the half way point between the first number used and the second number used (paremeters 5 and 6 in this case) at soft level 5 it would be very fidgety to get appropriate conversion since +skills will surely muck things up due to the soft level progression that starts off very fast.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:22 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:50 am
Posts: 130
Even if you guys do or do not do anything about MB. It won't change for awhile. When you guys make changes that effect core utility and playstyle please remember people like me.

It's depressing to me personally, since it was one of my most used skills end game for a sin. I had an attachment to my playstyle. Sorting through mobs, directing traffic, protecting my teammates, directing my traps was sorta my thing with trapping. And, thats not possible anymore.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:14 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:33 pm
Posts: 1175
Location: Knoxville, TN
The biggest aspect MOST trap sins ignored is Death Sentry is a far more effective tool for dealing with light immunes. Also equipping a Daylight to a merc would solve some problems. Even Arduals on a merc, variety of ways to fix the problem.

_________________
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Ze dictatorship hast simply changed hands ya?
Let us crunch ze numbers


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:04 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:50 am
Posts: 130
Why stop there. And, offhand Bonehew for CE. Then you can CE and trap at the same time. Still isn't the same utility though.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:12 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:16 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Lost, In Between Nothingness
May not be the same but it definitely didn't break a build. It really made mental sins viable tho.

_________________
Practice safe trolling and be wary of spambots they have squaids.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:23 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 384
Location: Central America - Honduras - S.P.S.
how do you plan to do some aoe dps and kill mobs if you convert each monster you attack? or you plan to be what we often call "merc bitch" and leave the aoe to mercs... mentalsin has no need of conversion, as a 40pt build you could max both shadows and have one of those two clones your attacks, wich means double mindblast, 10% convert? so 2 shadows 1 merc + you its a 4people party all by urself. and still having lots of conversion with that 5%... what else could you want for a build?? this build came from the ashes and rebirth just a while ago with the recent changes and you complain man, lets be honest, now its more playable and a good build.

one thing we still can take from ur concern, for those not mindblast maxer builds, we could adjust the mind blast to start at 20% conversion at lvl1 and end up being 5% at lvl20. that would help a bit. But for mentalsin you dont need conversion.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:53 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
First of all a hard point progression for the conversion is not an option for mind blast since it does not use a calc field to calculate the conversion chance. There is a pair of DM numbers (24, 2) that could be used to generate 20% chance at soft level 1 and 5% at soft level 20. However, at higher soft levels this chance would then drop as low as 3% or maybe even 2%.

It should be noted that the DM formula goes through the first half of the range extremely fast. The chance to convert will drop to 13% by soft level 5 assuming we're still using the 24 and 2 pair of numbers mentioned for the DM formula in the last paragraph.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:38 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:50 am
Posts: 130
Would it be possible change it instead of conversion, to attract and/or confuse instead?

Would it be possible to instead have physic hammer convert?.. instead of mind blast? I would prefer this over any other change, or maybe have both. Would be interesting gameplay too.

5% to convert really ruined this tool and utility that the sin has had forever.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:10 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 384
Location: Central America - Honduras - S.P.S.
swap the convert to psychic hammer sounds nice, imo. :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:49 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:16 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Lost, In Between Nothingness
try a mental sin and you will love only %5 convert. So you would choose to ruin a build over finding a new strategy??

_________________
Practice safe trolling and be wary of spambots they have squaids.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mind Blast 5% conversion
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:52 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:33 pm
Posts: 1175
Location: Knoxville, TN
WHEN DID TRAP SINS BECOME A COMPLEX THING TO PLAY. PLACE TRAPS KITE CAST MASTER AS NEEDED........ qqrageimmadbro

_________________
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Ze dictatorship hast simply changed hands ya?
Let us crunch ze numbers


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: