Login | Register


All times are UTC - 5 hours


It is currently Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:30 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 977
doesnt last at all and what 15 sec cool down?

lvl 5 in a4 is useless
900 base life w/ dodge/avoid


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:49 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 4:10 am
Posts: 478
Lol, ppl still used it to tank all bosses in nm / hell with an healer. So no, it is okey, just not as imba to solo with.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:16 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
I just checked through decoy summons skills and monstats. For the record decoy does NOT get dodge and evade (or any other skills for that matter). Also if you have %life at all decoy will no longer calculate its life based on your full health orb and will use less and less the more %life you have on your char (so that its practically calculating based on what your life would be without %life).

Valkyrie does get evade but it's evade level is based on the number of hard points you get into evade (it also gets your hard levels into critical strike and penetrate).


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:00 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 977
i mean as a solo skill it sucks. just one hit dies to all and then 15 sec cool down whats the point?

maybe give it hard point dodge/avoid bonus like valk?


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:50 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
valk has perfection/strategy synergies not dodge/avoid.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:20 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
Considering healadins are already making it an operational tank against bosses with just its the tri-absorbs from its summon monprop it does not really need more damage mitigation.

One could probably even go as far as saying that the summon monprops are overpowered. In NM decoy and valk gain 25% tri-absorbs and PLR. In hell it rises to 50% tri-absorbs and PLR.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 977
oh misunderstood

maybe those would be better how useful is critical strike on a valkyre lol


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:23 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
looks like I slipped into the txt file names... The 3 skills the valk inherits the hard levels of is perfection, strategy, and critical strike. Given that critical strike and and perfection are on the DM formula for returns just simply putting 5 hard points into those 2 skills will give valk over half the possible benefits of those two skills.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:31 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 977
crit strike is silly on a valk, give it dodge or avoid hard point bonus be way more useful


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:07 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
Or you could just simply max strategy causing the defense on the valk to actually mean something since it wears random mod armor with its base item based on the skill level of the skill.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 977
to many other options to max that are more use full than strategy though


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:00 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4292
the clue is in the name:

"Decoy" not "Tank".

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:09 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 977
eh its better at lvl 20 but why does it have same cool down as valk ugh


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:36 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 1627
Does actually a decoy lure mobs? I'd give it an aura(holy fire clone) with 25, or whatever, yards range producing the highest aggro in game - attackrank in skills.txt. Ofc lower cooldown and nerf hp buffs more or increase cooldown and increase buffs :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:55 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
lol decoy was way op before. Shit could tank anything so ez.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:12 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
To be honest I actually buffed decoy some in the beta 2 to help prevent it from being total crap. However, only one person during the beta actually even bothered really even getting my attention on the overnerfing. That person gave me early hell feedback and I made the beta 2 buffs based on that feedback. That person never did really actually get back to me how it even handled in early hell afterwards.

If you really want to make a case out of it... Then make an extensive performance record for how long it lasts compared to its 10 second timer against various enemies (both trash and bosses) throughout various acts and all 3 difficulties. If the hard numbers show that it's truly lacking on performance then we can consider how to buff it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm
Posts: 895
Yeah definitely if it's underpowered something can be looked into it. Just need to post some testing and the results you get. See how Decoy is later on and what not... just remember how op it was before. It could tank Samhain etc. No one obviously tested it during the beta though but I assume Baerk is going to be working on a patch sometime soon for some updates like.

The ed on stre buffed again.
Mana brought down on BS.


Dunno what else.

_________________
"Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:37 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 523
Actually Baerk I was chatting with you in game on it, you logged off mid conversation. While I do agree it was op before, like I had stated vs Hell Leo self buffed (no oak and lvl 12ish bo from cta) it took 1-2 hits from hell Leo and poofed. Whereas before about the time the timer went off it died. Never really finished that char though so lacked endgame gear for comparison. IMO, put it at 100% + 5% per lvl and set cooldown at around 7 sec vs the current 10. As is, a dexazon won't use it much if at all with it based on base life and not your life bulb. Like too many skills, they get tweaked around endgame gear and before that they can be flatter than day old beer.

_________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:44 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
Actually the base life decoy uses does include the base life from life charms. However, dexzons by nature are rather low base life compared to other zons. The skill has to be balanced around whatever's most likely to overpower them (javazon or any other build that has no reason to pump damage stats like crazy).

It's acceptable losses if some dex whore zon build can't find decoy practical in my eyes (since their nature is not well suited to decoy in the first place). Trying to make a skill or stat practical for a build that can not take near full advantage of it in the first place is just begging for balance trouble when it's survival related especially when it's the type of thing that can negate ALL the damage you are taking (summons, leech, etc).

Your reminder did jog my memory a little but the convo's circumstances are hazy still. It left a bad impression on me that you were totally unwilling to get close enough the target cast point to apply the self BO to the decoy (but that's all I really remember). I made the buff to decoy based on presuming the caster would apply the self BO/self oak.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 523
Baerk wrote:
Your reminder did jog my memory a little but the convo's circumstances are hazy still. It left a bad impression on me that you were totally unwilling to get close enough the target cast point to apply the self BO to the decoy (but that's all I really remember). I made the buff to decoy based on presuming the caster would apply the self BO/self oak.
Simply put, in many cases the Zon will not be able to get close enough to decoy to self buff it. Decoy is cast 1/2 screen away in most cases, well out of bo range for safety reasons. I tried a few times when I ran Leo. Cast decoy, cast bo step back decoy popped. Versus something like Moloch in a party with barb it maybe would work, but the double dip significantly reduced decoy to near useless. As I said I never got her past act3 hell, and when beta rolled out not enough hell groups to attempt to progress her. I wasn't trying to imply dexazons should have as strong a decoy as a vita whore java would, I understand the logic there. Simply put dexazons are better at trash and generally suck at bosses anyway due to low life bulb. My original point was that as is decoy got hit with 3 nerfs in total. Reduced skill (75% +5%/lvl vs 100% +10%), had double dip gutted and cool down timer changed. Even during beta1 I had said it was a bit harsh. I do not want them as the ultimate recastable tank, which they used to be. I simply feel using nerfs 1 and 2 with a 7 sec cool down would be better.

_________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits" Albert Einstein


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:48 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 815
Baerk wrote:
If you really want to make a case out of it... Then make an extensive performance record for how long it lasts compared to its 10 second timer against various enemies (both trash and bosses) throughout various acts and all 3 difficulties. If the hard numbers show that it's truly lacking on performance then we can consider how to buff it.


One additional thing I forgot to mention when I said that earlier... the skill level at time of using it as well as buffs present and whether or not a healadin was actively healing it. If someone could actually be bothered to compile extensive feedback this detailed then we can deal with accurately buffing away the rest of the overnerfing that may have occured. Details such as zon's max life, the amount of %life they have, % life bonus listed in decoy description, and other things such as how much healing power the present healadin had if applicable will help.

Keep in mind it was a monster of a tank that used to be able to pull 100k+ life among other things potencially. Brutally drastic measures were required to bring it away from uber tank. It's hardly surprising its balance is still somewhat off the good mark after such a massive change when the change itself was tested so little.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 977
well just playing in hell its lvl 27, and i have 1.7 k base life i cant count to 1 before it dies to a hell boss with a healer present but not healing just pulse, and about 1 second to hell mobs in a3 lower trav where i farm
+215% life from decoy
i have no % life buffs

its the timer that killls it imo, comment more once i get more gear


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:51 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:24 am
Posts: 48
Lee wrote:
Yeah definitely if it's underpowered something can be looked into it. Just need to post some testing and the results you get. See how Decoy is later on and what not... just remember how op it was before. It could tank Samhain etc. No one obviously tested it during the beta though but I assume Baerk is going to be working on a patch sometime soon for some updates like.

The ed on stre buffed again.
Mana brought down on BS.


Dunno what else.


It could not tank Sammy before. Norm maybe, but hell Sammy cut it up in the matter of 1-2 second(s) just like all the act bosses did, minus Andy because she usually just tele'd it away and Diablo would usually just runs right past it, but when they did attack it, it still got eaten up.

The timer needs to be lowered to about 7. I guess the life could stay the same, even though she still gets killed in 1-3 seconds flat 98% of the time anyways and that's to trash. Bosses are another story, she gets killed pretty much as soon as she hits the ground on bosses, unless she doesn't get targeted, then she just sits there obviously. Sure if you have a healer that you pal around with and hes the only person you play with, then yes, decoy can tank if its being healed 24/7.

Edit: After playing and paying a little bit more attention strictly to Decoy, I think that the only thing that should be currently changed is the timer. I'd again suggest it be lowered to 7 seconds. Different things will eat up Decoy faster then others, etc. etc. I will still be watching and paying attention to Decoy as I continue to play.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: to many changes to decoy
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 977
ya decoy still blows even on trash gotta remove one of the nerfs and buff it. cant time how it survives because it just doesnt


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron