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 Post subject: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:27 pm 
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As many people have suggested trillion times, some unused areas should get some love and add something to the game. And something came to mind not like an alternative to the other ideas for these places, came like an additional stuff to them.

The runewords, lets be honest... most of the low and mid lvls can just be created when you are around 20 lvls over the requeriment(or more), and their value just get reduced when u manage to create them, most of them exist and no one ever never has created it for a utility or even for fun.

act 1 normal

In one of the act1 dungeons at the last floor should be added a miniboss with an accurate difficulty similar or a bit harder than andariel, this boss could have a pretty low chance percent of dropping runes ral, tal. ort and thul, these should should get removed from the regular drop from monsters, and only get by this boss or by buying it on act5.

Obviously the dungeon should be increased in difficulty and size around 5-7 floors

it could be nice if there is added a dungeon on the church behind leoric and the boss dropping the runes being the butcher ;) just an idea

act 2 normal

same dynamic, but now the runes you farm are amn, sol, shael and dol, again the boss should be a bit harder than dury. Maybe added on the sewers under lost city?? and again 5-7 floors.

act 3 normal

again the same but the runes are hel, io, lum, ko and fal. but more larger dungeon, around 10 floors.

act 4 normal

Lem and pul, again around 7-10 floors

act 5 normal

Um and Mal, 10-12 floors.

So, for now the drop for this runes on NORMAL difficulty are null, the runes cant drop at all, just get by farming these minibosses, BUT, in nightmare these runes are viable to get from normal monsters again (like actually), but with a very low rate (like ber zod jah cham are right now in hell).

This add a better changes for chars to get the runes they need at the lvl they need. As for nightmare:

Act 1 nightmare

drop for the miniboss should be only ist. In hell this rune will be able to find regulary again from normal mobs.

*at this moment you can go get the ist "easy way" from the miniboss or go teddious way farming low runes from normal and transmuting to ist wich its still really hard but now possible*

act 2 nightmare

the rune is Gul, and the same dynamic from the last.

act 3 nightmare

vex

act 4 nightmare

ohm

act 5 nightmare

Lo

At hell the rune drops are normal just like the way it is atm... Its easy to get any rune in hell, but this system will add the possibility to get runes and make runewords at the appropiate lvls, via farming.

The rune drop from countess on a1 should be removed and return the flag to her as req for andy.

any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:57 pm 
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Good idea probably a pain in the ass to implement.

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:08 pm 
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actually, it isnt that hard. Just like countess atm has a probability to drop some especific runes on each difficulty and its impossible to find ber on normal, its just a matter to change some data, when adding a monster to the game, example leoric when he was added, the modder defines the drops able on him, and also for the regular mobs its the same, the modder set the items range they can drop and what they cant drop.
Based on this, this system should be easy to implement.


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:14 pm 
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Talking about the maps to put em in the actual bosses wouldn't be hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:30 pm 
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I could do any sort of TC adjustment... however there is a game engine limitation making it so the game can only have 255 maps total for all acts if we were to add much other added content. Including the brand new map just added for the Soulmancer boss there is already 202 of the possible 255 maps already used.

It would be a waste to actually use 36-48 of the remaining 53 map indexes for something this minor. Would just simply be better to make a gigantic windy preset map (that is long to the point it would make the level just before Sszak look mild) and have the boss at the end (If one's taken a crack at the strongest uber in Aftermath they'll know that preset maps can actually get rather huge)


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Baerk wrote:
Would just simply be better to make a gigantic windy preset map (that is long to the point it would make the level just before Sszak look mild) and have the boss at the end (If one's taken a crack at the strongest uber in Aftermath they'll know that preset maps can actually get rather huge)


sounds like a good alternative and easier. but what about those gigantic maps with only 2 variations per act for a total of 10 map presets??


the entrance patch (a big area) should be the same or similar on both maps so chars wont know wich map is (if they learn it like it use to happen) and just after a while exploring they would realize wich of the 2 maps they are in.

like 2 humongous sszak maps but one with the true way in one corner and the other at the opposite corner.
Or the boss on a random area of the map if its possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:21 pm 
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Actually with the sheer number of maps you were initially suggesting... in order to create a single map equally lengthy to get through as all those several maps would require the gigantic map to be designed with a snake pattern like so:

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There wouldn't really be much room for proper variation. It would probably be a half hearted attempt at variation much like how halls of pain has only 3 presets (all of which are quickly identified by someone who's memorized them) and nihlathak's map only has 4. One thing possible to keep in mind for these custom forged huge maps though. The mapper has full control over the automap. It would be entirely possible to make it so that the map in question has no automap at all even for MH or even make it so it would actually be more confusing to explore the entire map possibly.


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:15 pm 
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I hate Izual because of the lack of automap. I already crash going in then have no map when it finally loads

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:25 pm 
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no automap would be lame and much people would get lost and be pissed when rejoin lots of times there... but the gigantic map with no variation its fine ifs get improved the difficult by adding champ and unique zerkers on act 1, wyrms on a2, etc. and if possible the boss of the dungeon on a random place of the map (like a regular monster but its not)to have to seek him and not always take the same route to find him.


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:55 pm 
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While it's possible to make a boss be able to spawn at more than one place... all those places are preset and it's just simply a matter of which place you make load first. Maybe the first gigantic map could lead to a second random map... However, if the 2nd random map has any visible automap at all a person could just use MH to isolate the high probability spots where the boss might be or in some cases immediately be able to spot the location of the boss (even if the boss is currently too far away for the MH to reveal the monster).

The main problem against "randomly" located bosses is that their location is never truly random. Their spawn location is always attached to a particular type of invisible map marker (and then for a MH user its just simply a matter of figuring out what type of terrain arrangement normally surrounds the spawn point). To have any map variation/boss location variation would actually only serve to encourage the MH anyways (I'm all too familiar with how people in Aftermath frequently use MH to quickly narrow down where Soulless Khaa is in the false tombs so they can get his unique charm much faster).


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:59 am 
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When we start balancing against maphack I feel like we have a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:04 am 
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LockDown wrote:
When we start balancing against maphack I feel like we have a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:25 pm 

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LockDown wrote:
When we start balancing against maphack I feel like we have a problem.


...

:mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:35 pm 
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antihack - HUguard????


EDIT: the game cant be "balanced" based on hacks... you cant live hidden in your house because the sun brights so much for your lame eyes, buy some good sunglasses and a hat.


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:02 pm 
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Wolfs wrote:
antihack - HUguard????


EDIT: the game cant be "balanced" based on hacks... you cant live hidden in your house because the sun brights so much for your lame eyes, buy some good sunglasses and a hat.



I just throw blankets in front of the window.

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:50 pm 
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Wolfs wrote:
you cant live hidden in your house because the sun brights so much for your lame eyes, buy some good sunglasses and a hat.


Tell that to my ginger GF (she has no soul you know). She'd get sun burn from a 40 watt bulb.

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:22 pm 
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and back to the original post ¬¬

handy suggestion for rws and adding some new stuff to the game, and also easy. Implementable on a more simple way (due the maps presets problematic) or just leave it and forget it? Baerk?


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:38 pm 
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Here's the thing about the CLOD rune TCs... they are actually set up in a rather troublesome way. Even if you directly call the highest CLOD rune drop table that drops zod there's a very high chance it will choose to have a lower rune drop table dropped instead. The only reason nihlathak has such a tight range on his rune drops is because he was given a very special custom rune drop TC table in each difficulty.

One thing I could do though is just simply go into all the normal difficulty rune drop tables and have them start at a higher more appropriate initial table. An other thing I could do (but probably shouldn't be done) is reduce the chance a lower table is called instead.

The pure TC modification approach for trash would be the easier and faster route for me to go at the moment (as I have 0 initial knowledge on how to do adding maps and creating them which means I would have to spend a fair bit of time researching how to do so).


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:45 am 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Wolfs wrote:
you cant live hidden in your house because the sun brights so much for your lame eyes, buy some good sunglasses and a hat.


Tell that to my ginger GF (she has no soul you know). She'd get sun burn from a 40 watt bulb.


rofl

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:42 am 

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Baerk wrote:
Here's the thing about the CLOD rune TCs... they are actually set up in a rather troublesome way. Even if you directly call the highest CLOD rune drop table that drops zod there's a very high chance it will choose to have a lower rune drop table dropped instead. The only reason nihlathak has such a tight range on his rune drops is because he was given a very special custom rune drop TC table in each difficulty.

One thing I could do though is just simply go into all the normal difficulty rune drop tables and have them start at a higher more appropriate initial table. An other thing I could do (but probably shouldn't be done) is reduce the chance a lower table is called instead.

The pure TC modification approach for trash would be the easier and faster route for me to go at the moment (as I have 0 initial knowledge on how to do adding maps and creating them which means I would have to spend a fair bit of time researching how to do so).


Yeah, Nila's rune drop sucked very badly until I pointed that out to Mancer.

But you could just pick one boss per act (other than 5, since Nila is there, and possibly 1 because of the Countess) and give them a custom rune drop TC thing. That'd probably be easier than editing all trash mob entries, since you'd only have to do about 9 things in total.


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:38 am 
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LockDown wrote:
When we start balancing against maphack I feel like we have a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:54 am 
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Countess, summoner,hatestorm,lazurus,nihla??? Rune bosses just a thought. Except for the countess they all have a small army to beat to kill them. But if this were to happen I don't think the added ones should always drop runes would be to easy to make rune words then.

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:39 pm 
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The idea, its mainly add some new stuff and not stay always on the same, each patch its the same re-balance on the same stuff, there are so much unused areas on game that should get some love, and also the thing i pointed on the beginning, why so many rws if you cant even make them at the appropiate levels?? one alternative to the original idea is to just increase in size the existing dungeons and add the boss there... with no complications, and with the rune range i suggested per act. AT very low rate, but now they are able to get on appropiate levels if you farm them.

THIS WONT MAKE RUNES TOO EASY TO GET IF YOU READ THE ORIGINAL POST


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:50 pm 
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i read your original post and to make it happen would require alot of testin and redoing many of the treasure class entries. it would be nice in a future update since they are gonna get this one live soon. i hope anyway

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:38 am 
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if you wanna add some good stuff and extras, really: add the 16 dungeons beneath Tristram Cathedral from original Diablo, with an exponential increase in difficulty.

Oh, may I say the last boss at the last dungeon would drop a random useless trophy for your pride ( sc +5 light radius ) . And a random rune from el to zod.

D2 and D1 in a single mod? yes, please

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:04 pm 
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tonykantos wrote:
D2 and D1 in a single mod? yes, please


totally agree on that. this would be awesome for us the D1 lovers :D (i still play it lol)


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:22 pm 

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tonykantos wrote:
D2 and D1 in a single mod? yes, please


I am Squelch and I support this message.


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:12 pm 
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Actually a really nice idea... Sounds like something good to work on for new content after this immediate balance patch.


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:02 am 
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Baerk wrote:
Actually a really nice idea... Sounds like something good to work on for new content after this immediate balance patch.


or this could be fused with my original idea and work cool, floor 3 butcher (a bit harder than andy just exactly as i described before), and he is the first miniboss i suggested for act 1 with the rune drop mechanic, floor 6 another leoric just to stick to the original D1 boss secuence, and hed be the a2 miniboss, floor 9 dont remmenber who is next sincerely to be for the a3 miniboss, but floor 12 the archbishop or priest dad of prince albretch who went mad dont remmenber the name atm and hed be the act 4 miniboss and the floor 16 is old Diablo for act 5.

XD not giving up on the runes ideas because its needed to get something done to make them able to create at the lvl reqs


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:37 am 
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In any case... Warlord of Blood would actually be a lot closer to floor 12 than Lazarus. It would be more accurate to use Zhar the Mad for floor 6 as well since he was one of the catacomb bosses. Unfortunately lvl 9-12 were the caves which didn't really have much in the the way of actual bosses. We could just make floors 9-12 somewhat shorter and then put a bosses at floors 8 (chamber of bone? halls of the blind?) and 13. Lazarus was always at floor 15.5 anyways in the singleplayer Diablo.

As for floor 16... actually having Diablo there would be a bit odd since he escaped long ago. How about Diablo's Knight, Sir Gorash all beefed up to be appropriate for the final rune boss?


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:47 am 

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Baerk wrote:
In any case... Warlord of Blood would actually be a lot closer to floor 12 than Lazarus. It would be more accurate to use Zhar the Mad for floor 6 as well since he was one of the catacomb bosses. Unfortunately lvl 9-12 were the caves which didn't really have much in the the way of actual bosses. We could just make floors 9-12 somewhat shorter and then put a bosses at floors 8 (chamber of bone? halls of the blind?) and 13. Lazarus was always at floor 15.5 anyways in the singleplayer Diablo.

As for floor 16... actually having Diablo there would be a bit odd since he escaped long ago. How about Diablo's Knight, Sir Gorash all beefed up to be appropriate for the final rune boss?


Butcher, Leoric, Zhar, Lazarus, Gorash.


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:42 am 
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this is going offtopic... should we create another different thread to discusse the original diablo dungeon? :P

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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:59 am 
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tonykantos wrote:
this is going offtopic... should we create another different thread to discusse the original diablo dungeon? :P


its going mixtopic... xD i like it, stay here :P


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:07 am 
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no more feedback on here?? :(

The d1 dungeon idea mixed with the runedrop system its a nice idea too ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:43 pm 
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It's definitely a nice idea. Just way too big to be making it into the next patch.


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 Post subject: Re: Runewords and Runes
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:40 am 

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Love the idea!

Gotta think about a quick way back thou cause 12 levels without a TP might be a bit long.

Vio.


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