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 Post subject: Changes to Vengance
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:28 pm 
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after playing my vengance paladin through all difficultys the conclusion is it is a terrible skill as a whole. The main problem being the terrible speed. This makes it suck against bosses and even worse against trash. Single target attacks should either have some Area of effect or be able to reach a decent attack speed. With this in mind I see 2 possible solutions.

1: change the animation like what was previously done with fireclaws using the hunger animation. Give it a max of 4 fpa, This seems reasonable since it is a 100 point build.

2: keep the 8fpa speed but give it elemental novas like phoenix strike to make it more of a trash killing skill. Perhaps a random elemental "nova" like skill per attack, as in the following.
Fire - splash damage (4 yards) 5% chance of fire patch
Cold - Splash damage (4 yards) 5% chance of added frost nova
Lightning - Chain Lightning (1 hit per level) 5% chance of added light nova

I thought about perhaps charged bolts for the lightning attack but since you will be toe to toe with bosses, relesing 10-15 changed bolts at random and stacking them all would cause some major counter issues in my opinion. Though this could be a good thing to make you wary of high countering bosses and make it a wild card for anyone wanting to risk using the trash clearing skill against major bosses.

The general feel is that it should be either alot faster or changed to an AoE type skill to make a trash cleaning paladin.
Would like to hear other points of view on this, I do know it needs to be changed for sure as at the min it is extremely flawed.

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to Vengance
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:45 pm 
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Location: Central America - Honduras - S.P.S.
maybe not novas or such... just give it a blow like dragontail but with much less radius; that way it only affect the 3 bastards from the trash that fight body-to-body with you.... perhaps 2-3yards radius?

the 4fpa sounds good also.... mix both solutions :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Changes to Vengance
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:26 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:35 pm
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Location: US East
I kinda like the second change idea, perhaps have it like a fire patch released by a meteor (longer duration with higher levels)? 5% CTC.

Cold: slvl Frost Nova, 5% CTC...
Lightning: Mimic chain lightning on this one, not just use Chain Lightning CTC, hits equal to slvl; 5% CTC slvl Nova

(where slvl is the current level of Vengeance or perhaps slvl * 2/3 imo)

but then again, could mimic level of Vengeance because it's not exactly powerful without any mastery. Then again, my drunken $0.02...

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to Vengance
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:20 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:24 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Norway
give it static 8frame attack speed and its fine. and takes just a few secs. if you give it zeal animation auradins need a nerf, and i doubt a complete revamp of the skill is going to happen, besides splash damage isnt very palaish


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 Post subject: Re: Changes to Vengance
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:25 am 
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it already has 8 frame attack, the skill is still garbage though

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to Vengance
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:34 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:24 pm
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Location: Norway
but thats not with any gear is it?


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 Post subject: Re: Changes to Vengance
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:35 am 
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you cant increase it past 8fpa, its a static speed attack

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to Vengance
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:58 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:24 pm
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Location: Norway
are you sure about this? mine shows up faster with 25%ias gloves that without, i guess i could have a bad install tho. mine has been all fine except for a tiny lack in damage per attack. that said, when any char gets convi later on i can see him falling down to high lvl mule
ut before you make it zeal speed consider the following:
an auradin with an additional free 20% pierce,
no zeal bug
a much more sturdy attack rating
and a slightly increased damage including damage to deal with immunes


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 Post subject: Re: Changes to Vengance
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:31 am 
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it wont go faster than an 8 frame attack. It starts around 13 or 14 frame iirc. It'll never get faster that 8 frames and thats really slow for an endgame attack.

I personally prefer the splash damage more than the increased speed idea anyway. If its gonna be slow, make it a trash skill at least.

These ideas were from playing mine to 99 at the start of the ladder. Vengance was so bad on bosses it wasnt even funny. My friends mercs were doing 2 or 3 times the damage I was so i ended up running resist auras to keep them alive and using smite myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to Vengance
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:59 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:24 pm
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Location: Norway
ah:)
want to hear me out on a solution that pleases both those who like current veng and those that want aoe veng?
make syns define the skill, make res auras buff the oldstyle veng just like now
but for new style veng make holy auras add x%chance per lvl to cast spells where strength is defined by veng itself? O.o allows for tons of customization too :)
and how about nerfing convi by 20% and give it 1% syn from veng? to make an avenger more attactive to any party?


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 Post subject: Re: Changes to Vengance
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:49 am 
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ha! I quite like that idea. You could then have a venger with maxed holy fire to for a fire aoe side, then max res light and cold for 2 strong element types to attack. or go all splash route or all single target high dmage route. I like that alot.

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